Why shouldn't I ride tubulars?

[Karbon]

Beginning of the year I decided it was crazy for me to ride tubulars and I got rid of everything, figuring Veloflex Pave/Black's or Vittoria Open Pave are good enough for me. Now I find myself thinking about it again, so can anyone save my wallet from insanity and tell me any reasons why I shouldn't?

Why I'd like to is I miss that tubular ride, plus some of the carbon rim wheels available look sweet...I'd get a second set of aluminum rim wheels too as backup.

[Too Tall]

Welcome back Mr. Kotter...welcome back.

Keep a set of clinchers for when it makes sense. Otherwise you answered your question.

Be Well and ride tubulars like you sold them.

[Dave B]

This brings up a question I had. Besides the cool carbon rimmed wheels and less weight, why ride tubulars.

The tires cost more, you can get clinchers with PSI ratings of 120 to 150, glue is messy, and when you flat it is pretty hard to sort out mid ride.

Why even train/ride with them?

[dirtdigger88]

This brings up a question I had. Besides the cool carbon rimmed wheels and less weight, why ride tubulars.

The tires cost more, you can get clinchers with PSI ratings of 120 to 150, glue is messy, and when you flat it is pretty hard to sort out mid ride.

Why even train/ride with them?


a better ride-

less flats-

psi rating of 80 psi without pinch flats-

glue isnt messy if you do it right-

Jason

[coylifut]

because (excluding when actually racing) the pros don't ride tubulars and you should do what ever the pros do including following their medical plan.

[fiamme red]

Welcome back Mr. Kotter...welcome back.

Keep a set of clinchers for when it makes sense. Otherwise you answered your question.

Be Well and ride tubulars like you sold them.Too Tall,

I'm curious: do you use tubulars on brevets? P-B-P?

[saab2000]

For reasons I cannot explain, tubulars really do seem to flat less often. I never get pinch flats on my clinchers, so that is not the reason.

I have been back on tubies for all of last season and thus far all of this season. I still ride clinchers on some bikes, but definitely like the tubulars better. I have had one flat on the tubulars.

Yes, there is a PITA factor with glueing. My biggest problelm is flatting a tubular when it is relatively new. That happened with my one flat this year. I am not good at fixing them, though others do a good job.

There is almost no reason to not ride tubulars unless you live in an area that is especially flat prone. I guess the desert areas are like that with all those weeds and thorns.

[Too Tall]

Oh he!! no. Infact, the French (not the Russians) adopted clinchers way back in the day for long self supported events because you can repair multiple flats in a timely manner only carrying tubes.

My "limit" for a long unsupported ride is a double in good weather. Carrying two sewups and a repair kit is overkill in good weather but something I have to do since none of my pals ride tubulars.

99.99999 % of the miles I've ridden in the past 4 yrs. are on tubulars and that includes going to work and back thru the 'burbs and into DC. Flats (knock on wood) are not an issue. I rarely pop a tire (cough) except in pouring rain at DBRKs ;)...but than everyone was getting flats and didn't want to feel left out :rolleyes:

Def. ride clinchers if you ride beyond your ability to self support.

TUBULARS - sounds nice don't it?

[saab2000]

BTW, tubulars will definitely not make you faster. If you are getting dropped on the Fat Frogs 'turbo Tuesday' morning rides and are huffing and puffing and wheezing and the legs are burning, you will still feel that way with tubulars. I know I do.

Those wankers go fast and only one other rider rides tubulars. He is riding some TT rig with tubular-only wheels.

I hate them cuz they are faster than me.

[Tom]

I ride clinchers. People argue it's cheaper when you flat on clinchers cause a tube's just $5.

I've had one flat this year where I didn't trash the tire with whatever it was I hit. All three flats before that, going back to last year, tore holes in the tires - Michelin Pro Race's.

This morning I made a beautiful star shaped hole about the size of my little fingernail in my back tire. What'd I hit? No idea. I couldn't find it.

[CalfeeFly]

I retired my Tufo's that never wear out and went with Vittoria Corso this year. First ride I picked up a staple in the rear tire. The good news is the the Vittoria Pit Stop worked and the tire has been holding air just fine. It seems that this is now one more reason why you could have a tubublar wheelset as an option. Ride it when you want that feel and a clincher when that fits the bill better.

Good luck.

[zank]

psi rating of 80 psi without pinch flats-

Jason

How about 25-30 psi on the cross course? :banana:

[Archibald]

I'm down to two tubie wheelsets (a set of Mavic GP4s and Zipp 303s), simply because I got tired of the tubular ritual, but atmo, tubies are better when speed is what matters. My bike feels faster when I'm running tubies and not because of the lighter weight, but because of the seemingly significantly lower rolling resistance and more comfortable ride. They just seem to add a little extra zip to the bike. Maybe it's all psychological.

Tufo's tubulars are probably the longest lasting, lowest maintenance, road bike tires ever made if you run them with the sealant. I've never flatted one depite picking up more than their fair share of thorns and road debris.

[Dave B]

I use the Tufo "Tubular" clinchers and they are fine, but unless you use a sealant once you pop a tubular is it pretty much useless. OR can you send it out to be fixed?

[Squint]

Specialized Armadillos are cheaper, easier to mount, and much more puncture resistant. You don't need sealant. Best to try to prevent punctures rather than seal them afterwards.


I'm down to two tubie wheelsets (a set of Mavic GP4s and Zipp 303s), simply because I got tired of the tubular ritual, but atmo, tubies are better when speed is what matters. My bike feels faster when I'm running tubies and not because of the lighter weight, but because of the seemingly significantly lower rolling resistance and more comfortable ride. They just seem to add a little extra zip to the bike. Maybe it's all psychological.

Tufo's tubulars are probably the longest lasting, lowest maintenance, road bike tires ever made if you run them with the sealant. I've never flatted one depite picking up more than their fair share of thorns and road debris.

[dvancleve]

Tufo tires don't actually have a tube, so if the sealant doesn't work the tire is through. I had great luck with a pair of skinny cheap tubular clinchers (S22 maybe?) right up until I hit something that caused an insta-flat and the sealant wouldn't hold. Air would stay in for a while, then the plug would let loose and spray latex or whatever that stuff is all over the place...

Doug


I use the Tufo "Tubular" clinchers and they are fine, but unless you use a sealant once you pop a tubular is it pretty much useless. OR can you send it out to be fixed?

[Dave B]

So if I am out on the road with a nice set of tubulars and I flat am I screwed? This has been the only thing stopping me from going that route. I had a set awhile back and crossed my proverbial fingers every time I road so that I would not flat and be stranded 30 to 40 miles away form home.

But how do people repair tubular tires?

Do you guys/gals really carry and extra tire with you and wrestle with it if you flat?

[gone]

Do you guys/gals really carry and extra tire with you and wrestle with it if you flat?
Yep. They actually fold up quite small and fit neatly under the seat held in place with a strap from a set of toe clips. I have a Barbieri CarbOne mounted on all my bikes so that's all I need.

If you're into seat bags, you can also get one of these (http://www.worldcycling.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TYRMTB&Category_Code=Bags) which will hold both a tire and a Co2 inflation device of some sort.

[Too Tall]

Changing a spare is something that's been covered in several (past) threads and can tell you that there ain't no wrestling if they are glued on for regular riding not racing. Even IF they were screwed on super tight you just need to know how to use a dull tool and to rock them off.

For instance at TDFL this weekend I popped a front tubular and despite a few choice words had it changed in about 5 mins. and was descending at 30 + mph in the rain no worries. Crazy? Non Non, you just gotta know what the drill is. My spare was slathered with old school (red) clemente glue...which is super sticky outter space glue that will hold even if wet....which it was :rolleyes:

Yes, carry a spare tubular is SOP.

Repairing tubulars is a 15 min. sit down with a coffee job unless you have to repair the case or the hole is a bear to find. I've been know to send a really bad tyre to the guys in Florida who do this for a living too ;) However, these "professionally" repaired tyres are only good as training / spares and no good for racing because their base tape replacement is just OK not perfect and you need perfect for race wheels...kapish?

Mmmmmmm feel the tubular love.

[trymorecowbell]

tubies are better when speed is what matters. My bike feels faster when I'm running tubies and not because of the lighter weight, but because of the seemingly significantly lower rolling resistance and more comfortable ride. They just seem to add a little extra zip to the bike. Maybe it's all psychological.

Might be psychological speed. The best tubbie tested below costs ~10watts compared to the best clincher. For me that's about 50 seconds in a 40K TT.


From jkheycke on Bike Tech Review:

I'll start with "The List". This was compiled from two separate tests of tires by the German Magazine, "Tour."

The rule of thumb I go by is that .0001 of Crr, equates to about 1 watt at 25-30 mph. So, for example, the Pro 2 Race would take 4 more watts than the Deda Tre Giro.

The tires with stars next to them are tubulars:


...Tire................Crr

Deda Tre Giro d'Italia......... 0.0038
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX....... 0.0039
Michelin Pro 2 Race...........0.0042
Vittoria Diamante Pro Rain....... 0.0044
Michelin Megamium 2...........0.0047
Pariba Revolution............0.0048
*Veloflex Carbon (Tubular)....... 0.0049
Michelin Carbon.............0.0050
*Gommitalia Route du Nord (Tubular)...0.0050
Panaracer Stradius Pro......... 0.0051
Schwalbe Stelvio Plus..........0.0052
*Gommitalia Platinum (Tubular)..... 0.0053
*Vittoria Corsa Evo CX (Tubular).... 0.0054
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Front.... 0.0056
Continental GP Force (rear specific).. 0.0057
Hutchinson Fusion............0.0057
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Rear.....0.0057
*Vittoria Corsa Evo KS (Tubular).... 0.0057
Continental Ultra GatorSkin.......0.0058
Ritchey Pro Race Slick WCS....... 0.0058
Schwalbe Stelvio............ 0.0059
*Continental Competition (Tubular)... 0.0059
*Veloflex Roubaix (Tubular).......0.0059
*Contintal Podium (Tubular).......0.0060
Specialized S-Works Mondo........0.0061
Continental GP 3000...........0.0067
Hutchinson Top Speed.......... 0.0069
*Schwalbe Stelvio (Tubular).......0.0069
Continental GP Attack (front specific). 0.0073
*Tufo Elite Jet (Tubular)........0.0073
*Schwalbe Montello 300 (Tubular).... 0.0075
*Tufo Hi-Composite Carbon (Tubular)...0.0077

[catulle]

Er, why shouldn't you...?

[Archibald]

Might be psychological speed. The best tubbie tested below costs ~10watts compared to the best clincher. For me that's about 50 seconds in a 40K TT.


From jkheycke on Bike Tech Review:

I'll start with "The List". This was compiled from two separate tests of tires by the German Magazine, "Tour."

The rule of thumb I go by is that .0001 of Crr, equates to about 1 watt at 25-30 mph. So, for example, the Pro 2 Race would take 4 more watts than the Deda Tre Giro.

The tires with stars next to them are tubulars:


...Tire................Crr

Deda Tre Giro d'Italia......... 0.0038
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX....... 0.0039
Michelin Pro 2 Race...........0.0042
Vittoria Diamante Pro Rain....... 0.0044
Michelin Megamium 2...........0.0047
Pariba Revolution............0.0048
*Veloflex Carbon (Tubular)....... 0.0049
Michelin Carbon.............0.0050
*Gommitalia Route du Nord (Tubular)...0.0050
Panaracer Stradius Pro......... 0.0051
Schwalbe Stelvio Plus..........0.0052
*Gommitalia Platinum (Tubular)..... 0.0053
*Vittoria Corsa Evo CX (Tubular).... 0.0054
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Front.... 0.0056
Continental GP Force (rear specific).. 0.0057
Hutchinson Fusion............0.0057
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Rear.....0.0057
*Vittoria Corsa Evo KS (Tubular).... 0.0057
Continental Ultra GatorSkin.......0.0058
Ritchey Pro Race Slick WCS....... 0.0058
Schwalbe Stelvio............ 0.0059
*Continental Competition (Tubular)... 0.0059
*Veloflex Roubaix (Tubular).......0.0059
*Contintal Podium (Tubular).......0.0060
Specialized S-Works Mondo........0.0061
Continental GP 3000...........0.0067
Hutchinson Top Speed.......... 0.0069
*Schwalbe Stelvio (Tubular).......0.0069
Continental GP Attack (front specific). 0.0073
*Tufo Elite Jet (Tubular)........0.0073
*Schwalbe Montello 300 (Tubular).... 0.0075
*Tufo Hi-Composite Carbon (Tubular)...0.0077

I love this kind of stuff. While the above is very interesting, this type of data is useless without knowing the testing process and standards, tire compounds, and the interface between the tire and control surface. Do you have a link to the article?

I read a tire test in the past where they used a rubber treadmill type apperatus and they found that rubber tire on rubber treadmill surface produced a significant enough variable in the results that the test results had to be discounted. I wonder if this is the same one? It's hard to accept at face value as clinchers are highly affected by the tube and tube/tire interface (talc, etc.) so it would be interesting and educational to see the combinations they used. Having the right tube could be as important as having the right tire!

[Grant McLean]

Might be psychological speed. The best tubbie tested below costs ~10watts compared to the best clincher. For me that's about 50 seconds in a 40K TT.


From jkheycke on Bike Tech Review:

I'll start with "The List". This was compiled from two separate tests of tires by the German Magazine, "Tour."

The rule of thumb I go by is that .0001 of Crr, equates to about 1 watt at 25-30 mph. So, for example, the Pro 2 Race would take 4 more watts than the Deda Tre Giro.

The tires with stars next to them are tubulars:


...Tire................Crr

Deda Tre Giro d'Italia......... 0.0038
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX....... 0.0039
Michelin Pro 2 Race...........0.0042
Vittoria Diamante Pro Rain....... 0.0044
Michelin Megamium 2...........0.0047
Pariba Revolution............0.0048
*Veloflex Carbon (Tubular)....... 0.0049
Michelin Carbon.............0.0050
*Gommitalia Route du Nord (Tubular)...0.0050
Panaracer Stradius Pro......... 0.0051
Schwalbe Stelvio Plus..........0.0052
*Gommitalia Platinum (Tubular)..... 0.0053
*Vittoria Corsa Evo CX (Tubular).... 0.0054
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Front.... 0.0056
Continental GP Force (rear specific).. 0.0057
Hutchinson Fusion............0.0057
Schwalbe Stelvio Evolution Rear.....0.0057
*Vittoria Corsa Evo KS (Tubular).... 0.0057
Continental Ultra GatorSkin.......0.0058
Ritchey Pro Race Slick WCS....... 0.0058
Schwalbe Stelvio............ 0.0059
*Continental Competition (Tubular)... 0.0059
*Veloflex Roubaix (Tubular).......0.0059
*Contintal Podium (Tubular).......0.0060
Specialized S-Works Mondo........0.0061
Continental GP 3000...........0.0067
Hutchinson Top Speed.......... 0.0069
*Schwalbe Stelvio (Tubular).......0.0069
Continental GP Attack (front specific). 0.0073
*Tufo Elite Jet (Tubular)........0.0073
*Schwalbe Montello 300 (Tubular).... 0.0075
*Tufo Hi-Composite Carbon (Tubular)...0.0077


Interesting that 2 vittoria tires with the same casing and tread would score
difference rolling resistance numbers between tubular and clincher.

No sizes are listed either. I wonder if the clinchers tested are 19mm?

g

[Big Dan]

Psychological speed bad?....
If I feel faster, I'm probably going to push more.....
I got both and the wheels that feel fastest for me are my
GL330's with Tufo's. According to the numbers I'm dragging my a$$....

Go figure...... :p

[zap]

Interesting that 2 vittoria tires with the same casing and tread would score
difference rolling resistance numbers between tubular and clincher.

No sizes are listed either. I wonder if the clinchers tested are 19mm?

g


Here you go http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html

[Archibald]

Here you go http://www.rouesartisanales.com/article-1503651.html
Interesting they offer no details on the clinchers. Also interesting in that the data collected appears different. I wonder if the testing took place at different times? Make sure you read the comments at the bottom of the article.

[trymorecowbell]

key difference is glue increases Crr - especially when you put on a few nice thick layers so you feel confident they won't roll

[Big Dan]

No big deal...I'll just sniff the glue and pump the tubs to 150............


:bike:

[Fixed]

Psychological speed bad?....
If I feel faster, I'm probably going to push more.....
I got both and the wheels that feel fastest for me are my
GL330's with Tufo's. According to the numbers I'm dragging my a$$....

Go figure...... :p
bro i have 330's with some cool mavic hubs . why do i like them? i wanted some for years before i got some . cheers

[Grant McLean]

bro i have 330's with some cool mavic hubs . why do i like them? i wanted some for years before i got some . cheers

but bro, you're now 0.0001 % slower. :rolleyes: better do some more intervals!

g

[MartyE]

why shouldn't you ride tubulars?

a) because the obsessive/compulsive in you would never be
satisfied that the tires were glued on correctly.
b) because Lance rode tubulars and you are desperately trying to
distance yourself from all things Lance
c) because you believe that no tire will ever come close
to a Clement Seta silk (well that's true, isn't it?).
d) because of Joseba Beloki (melted tar notwithstanding).

Honestly? I can't justify either way, I know I like the ritual, and
mostly the ride.

marty

[Archibald]

key difference is glue increases Crr - especially when you put on a few nice thick layers so you feel confident they won't roll
Thanks for mentioning that, I hadn't considered it. I wonder what there standard was for the test. I've never worried about rolling a tubie unless it was low on air going flat and I ride in an area with a lot of long steep descents.

A friend of mine also runs Tufo tubular clinchers and on a training ride he struck a nail that went through the tire and actually penetrated the rim. He didn't have a spare and he ended up finishing the next hour plus of riding on the tire. The bead strip and the tire were both substantial enough that he never damaged the rim and even quit complaining about it after a bit. Based on other Tufo's performance on the test, I would have to guess that the tubular clinchers are off the scale for rolling resistance, but they're very tough.

One more thing on that test is that most of the tubulars were tested at significantly lower pressures than they're capable of. I wonder what they're rolling resistance would be at greater pressures. When I run my tubies at clincher pressures it always feels like I'm getting a flat.

[djg]

Yep. They actually fold up quite small and fit neatly under the seat held in place with a strap from a set of toe clips. I have a Barbieri CarbOne mounted on all my bikes so that's all I need.

If you're into seat bags, you can also get one of these (http://www.worldcycling.com/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=TYRMTB&Category_Code=Bags) which will hold both a tire and a Co2 inflation device of some sort.

Or this version: http://www.biketiresdirect.com/productdetail.asp?p=VTSTB&tnum=1726537&c=2300711

It holds a spare tire, CO2, a velox patch kit, and a cell phone, no problem.

[RPS]

The general concurrence appears to be that tubulars offer a better ride but at a higher cost and reduced convenience, making it an individual judgment call based on personal needs.

If improved ride is indeed the primary justification for tubulars, is it possible that the bike itself influences the tubular versus clincher decision? It would be interesting to compare if the incremental ride quality offered by tubulars is as important to those who ride carbon or titanium versus steel or aluminum.

[djg]

The general concurrence appears to be that tubulars offer a better ride but at a higher cost and reduced convenience, making it an individual judgment call based on personal needs.

If improved ride is indeed the primary justification for tubulars, is it possible that the bike itself influences the tubular versus clincher decision? It would be interesting to compare if the incremental ride quality offered by tubulars is as important to those who ride carbon or titanium versus steel or aluminum.

Well, we're talking about subjective perceptions garnered from a handful of riders who, I'm guessing, ride this, that, and the other thing as far as frame materials go. On my CSi--steel--I typically ride tubulars. On my Colnago CT1--carbon rear triangle and fork, titanium main triangle--I typically ride tubulars. I still like my bikes with decent clinchers. I've got a set of Eurus clincher wheels that I like pretty well, but I prefer the tubbies. The added cost is noticeable on the page, tire-by-tire, but the added damage to my yearly cycling budget is not really a big deal. To each his or her own.