PDA

View Full Version : Titanium Frames; Warranty value


RoadWhale
05-13-2017, 08:26 PM
I've been looking at purchasing a Lynskey frame on eBay that is warrantied by the Lynskey factory for life. However, there is a Serotta Legend that has re-appeared in the Classifieds section of Paceline that may be a really good fit for my long torso body.
Obviously the Legend will not have a warranty but, once used for a few thousand miles, would it most likely have already failed if there was a flaw in the frame? Has anyone had a titanium frame that developed a stress crack only after many miles of riding?
The Lynskey seems like a good value although I don't feel any emotion when considering their frames. I'm considering them because of the low price point and warranty. When I look at the Legend, it reminds me of when my Father handed me his Rolex and said "it's yours now"

kingpin75s
05-13-2017, 08:29 PM
Buy the bike that speaks to you.

Your logic is generally sound. Ti bikes last a long time.

My watch is 60 year old and your father is right.

R3awak3n
05-13-2017, 08:34 PM
I agree, I would never buy a bike because it has a warranty (a car, sure, but not a bike frame). Buy what you like, it will most likely be fine. That said, those linkseys on ebay can be a really good deal

RoadWhale
05-13-2017, 08:38 PM
I agree, I would never buy a bike because it has a warranty (a car, sure, but not a bike frame). Buy what you like, it will most likely be fine. That said, those linkseys on ebay can be a really good deal

That's my thought on the Lynskey's too. With three Daughters entering college these next three consecutive years I have a very limited amount of money to spend on cycling. Most titanium frames, new or used, are outside my budget. That's why the Legend is so tempting

Ti Designs
05-13-2017, 08:43 PM
Obviously the Legend will not have a warranty but, once used for a few thousand miles, would it most likely have already failed if there was a flaw in the frame? Has anyone had a titanium frame that developed a stress crack only after many miles of riding?

My Serotta Ti is 11 years old, just found a crack in the seat tube... My friend's Fierte Ti failed like that a year ago, I saw 3 Merlin Extralights crack last season alone. It happens...

RoadWhale
05-13-2017, 08:52 PM
My Serotta Ti is 11 years old, just found a crack in the seat tube... My friend's Fierte Ti failed like that a year ago, I saw 3 Merlin Extralights crack last season alone. It happens...

Are these type of cracks fatal? Or can they be repaired? Thank you so much for the feedback.

cadence90
05-13-2017, 08:58 PM
While a lifetime warranty can be appealing, as others have already posted a quality ti frame (such as Serotta) should be fine, generally speaking. Of course any material can fail, but I would think if a quality-built used ti frame has no history of damage, the integrity should be sound for a long time. Obviously, ask the seller for all details and more photos, and if there is a source for replacements decals.

If you are referring to the 60/60 Legend Ti w/blue decals, that thing looks like pure class. Lynskeys? Meh...imo.

PNW
05-13-2017, 09:01 PM
Don't buy something just because it's cheap, but what you want and what is calling your name.

RoadWhale
05-13-2017, 09:07 PM
While a lifetime warranty can be appealing, as others have already posted a quality ti frame (such as Serotta) should be fine, generally speaking. Of course any material can fail, but I would think if a quality-built used ti frame has no history of damage, the integrity should be sound for a long time. Obviously, ask the seller for all details and more photos, and if there is a source for replacements decals.

If you are referring to the 60/60 Legend Ti w/blue decals, that thing looks like pure class. Lynskeys? Meh...imo.

Yes, it is that 60/60 Legend. The long top tube is a good fit for my long torso and it would be nice to own a Apex frame in design and function.

cadence90
05-13-2017, 09:33 PM
Yes, it is that 60/60 Legend. The long top tube is a good fit for my long torso and it would be nice to own a Apex frame in design and function.
Well, it sure looks beautiful. Ask lots of questions, ask for detailed photos, etc. Fortunately, unpainted ti might be the easiest material to spot cracks/damage on.

Good luck!

PNW
05-13-2017, 09:33 PM
Yes, it is that 60/60 Legend. The long top tube is a good fit for my long torso and it would be nice to own a Apex frame in design and function.

You've answered your question then.

apeescape
05-13-2017, 09:55 PM
Usually the warranty is only afforded to the original owner so rarely would it be valid when comparing 2 used bikes.

happycampyer
05-13-2017, 09:56 PM
Serotta built thousands of ti frames over the years, so some are bound to develop cracks. I bought a coupled Legend ST secondhand and it developed a crack in the headtube. I had it repaired by someone who used to work at Serotta, and his comment was, "Wow, that type of failure is really rare." It would definitely have been covered under warranty, but alas, Serotta is no more.

Ti frames are generally repairable, but note that, with the higher models Serotta made (i.e., with more tube manipulation), repairs can get tricky. Swaged tubes, which are pretty much all of the tubes on a Legend except for the headtube and the bottom bracket, are more complicated to replace. A top tube could probably be replaced by a straight tube, but a seat tube would be much more difficult, I would think, because the toptube and seatstay are mitered and designed lengthwise for a smaller diameter tube than the downtube is. I was fortunate that the tube that needed to be replaced was one of the easy ones.

Your thinking is generally sound. I would not hesitate to buy another Legend used, but I recognize that there is a small possibility that something could go wrong. In many respects, the prices factor that in.

R3awak3n
05-13-2017, 09:57 PM
Usually the warranty is only afforded to the original owner so rarely would it be valid when comparing 2 used bikes.

he is comparing a used bike (the serotta) to a new bike (the lynksey)

cmg
05-13-2017, 11:05 PM
don't buy the Lynskey because of a warranty, buy because you want it. top tube lengths the same, reach or stack the same? compare geometry's. new lynskeys have the tapered fork. some Lynskeys were made with asymmetrical rear chain stays, nice and stiff.

Clean39T
05-14-2017, 12:44 AM
While a lifetime warranty can be appealing, as others have already posted a quality ti frame (such as Serotta) should be fine, generally speaking. Of course any material can fail, but I would think if a quality-built used ti frame has no history of damage, the integrity should be sound for a long time. Obviously, ask the seller for all details and more photos, and if there is a source for replacements decals.

If you are referring to the 60/60 Legend Ti w/blue decals, that thing looks like pure class. Lynskeys? Meh...imo.

I just checked out your Kish Ti for the first time - that thing is sweet! :eek::D

Alan
05-14-2017, 06:46 AM
I bought one of the last Serotta's which was labeled a Classique TI but really a Legend. A great frame but it broke at the junction of the down tube and seat tube. A huge crack from seat tube to down tube. Would post pics but don't need to bring up memories. I was highly disappointed with no warranty. I bought a Lynskey R240 from my LBS and am happy with it though it is stiffer than the Serotta. Now I have someone to blame if I have issues.

TI frames do break though less than others. I know of several TI frames that have needed repair. Repair is not as easy as steel. I was told by several people that my frame was not repairable.

Alan

rePhil
05-14-2017, 07:51 AM
Curious as to what you will be replacing it with?




My Serotta Ti is 11 years old, just found a crack in the seat tube... My friend's Fierte Ti failed like that a year ago, I saw 3 Merlin Extralights crack last season alone. It happens...

Erik_A
05-14-2017, 08:06 AM
I would get the frame that takes the largest tires. You will get better ride quality that way. Also, If you are big enough to need a 60cm, than you may prefer the extra stiffness of the tapered headtube.

Ti Designs
05-14-2017, 08:36 AM
Curious as to what you will be replacing it with?

Golf clubs...

I have an s-works Tarmac which is my fast bike, but I don't ride it if I don't feel fast, which is much of the year. The fast bike gets to vacation in Florida over the winter and only sees about two months of use in the Boston area per year.

My Serotta has Dura-Ace 7700 and a Chris King external headset. It's got a threaded bottom bracket, takes somewhat large tires (I've done D2R2 on it three times), it just feels like home. It's also a custom geometry which Kelly Bedford thought was far too aggressive to ride, but I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't know that I can replace it.

As for repair, that would mean removal and replacement of a tube. It's the seat tube, cutting it off the bottom bracket shell and machining the rest off is a complex project, but not as bad as what needs to happen at the seat post end. Given the wall thickness, and welded repair would just create stress risers and I would have another dozen cracks started in a month.

I may just dig a hole in the back yard, say a few words about my departed friend and toss it in.

cadence90
05-14-2017, 02:49 PM
I just checked out your Kish Ti for the first time - that thing is sweet! :eek::D

Thanks much. I am currently re-building it with everything upgraded except for the frame. I love this bicycle; I'll update that thread when I'm finished.

Matthew
05-14-2017, 02:53 PM
Sure it happens, just like it can with ANY frame material. I have had three ti bikes so far. A Concours I sold here had well over 20k miles on it with not one issue. I currently have a Moots Compact from 2009. Has well over 18k miles on it and rides like it did the day I bought it. Also have a 2002 Moots Rigormootis MTB with no clue on the mileage as I bought it used. Still rides great too. I would get the one you would prefer to own. Which one tugs at you the most? It is likely you will never use the warranty anyway!

merlincustom1
05-14-2017, 04:03 PM
Are these type of cracks fatal? Or can they be repaired? Thank you so much for the feedback.

I have a '99 Merlin Extralight, about 4000 annual miles, no issues. A friend bought a used Spectrum, maybe 1992, and two years ago had a cracked chain stay that Kellogg replaced for around 400 bucks I think.