Data from Garmin pedals. So what?

[sfscott]

:confused:

I was looking more closely at some of the cycling dynamics data that comes out of the Vector pedals.

After a ride today, the data show that the avg of the scatter plot for pedal platform center offset is off +16mm on the left and +12 on the right. Both towards the outside. On a long climb it seemed to bounce inside and outside.

Is this a technique thing or a bike fit/need longer spindles thing? Or a who cares thing?

I'd also like to understand better the L/R balance and . I assume 50/50 is ideal but is that realistic for 50 year old pudgy mortals?

Same goes for power phase start and stop.

What's it all mean?

[jwalther]

Offset figure caused by cleat position?

Fair to say that most people have a dominant leg, I average 52R/48L.

[benb]

This stuff is probably better when analyzed in a fit session on better equipment than the Garmin Pedals.

I had a fancy fit session last fall where they analyzed the force vectors on each crank separately. What came out of it was that my cleat positions were pretty far off. Fixing that helped my feet feel better, smoothed out these variations, and brought the power differentials between my two legs down a lot. Best of all it pretty much eliminated saddle discomfort/sores for me.

It takes a trained eye to know what to do with this stuff, and the analysis software the fitter used with me was a lot more sophisticated than what is up on Garmin connect. I had a rather hard time understanding the analysis at the time but it worked.

I think quite a bit of this dovetails with what Ti designs talks about in terms of pedaling form. These adjustments can help you get close to providing force in the correct direction as the pedal moves around the crank revolution. Forces applied in other directions (particularly laterally) seem to sometimes be a result of bad fit. If the cleats are off laterally you can end up pushing sideways on the crank which is a waste, and you can also cause yourself to move around on the saddle which can make other things worse.. slide off the saddle a little bit to one side and now the angles on your leg might be off and you might not be getting correct extension on one leg or pushing down on the pedal in the bottom of the pedal stroke in a place that doesn't do anything except put more force on your foot.

In my case my cleat position was causing me to slide left on the saddle.. that effectively made my left leg act "long" and my right leg act "short". I'd get sore on the right side of the saddle and my left foot would have trouble because it was still pushing down at the bottom of the pedal stroke and I'd get a hot spot. It took me years to finally figure this out and some of the data really helped here, but I doubt I'd have figured it out myself if I'd just gotten the Garmin pedals. (Maybe though.)

[sfscott]

This stuff is probably better when analyzed in a fit session on better equipment than the Garmin Pedals.

I had a fancy fit session last fall where they analyzed the force vectors on each crank separately. What came out of it was that my cleat positions were pretty far off. Fixing that helped my feet feel better, smoothed out these variations, and brought the power differentials between my two legs down a lot. Best of all it pretty much eliminated saddle discomfort/sores for me.

It takes a trained eye to know what to do with this stuff, and the analysis software the fitter used with me was a lot more sophisticated than what is up on Garmin connect. I had a rather hard time understanding the analysis at the time but it worked.

Do you remember what fit system you used? Wondering if it's different than the Specicalized or Trek systems. I'm not looking to pick up a watt but comfort is always good.

[Mzilliox]

This stuff is probably better when analyzed in a fit session on better equipment than the Garmin Pedals.

I had a fancy fit session last fall where they analyzed the force vectors on each crank separately. What came out of it was that my cleat positions were pretty far off. Fixing that helped my feet feel better, smoothed out these variations, and brought the power differentials between my two legs down a lot. Best of all it pretty much eliminated saddle discomfort/sores for me.

It takes a trained eye to know what to do with this stuff, and the analysis software the fitter used with me was a lot more sophisticated than what is up on Garmin connect. I had a rather hard time understanding the analysis at the time but it worked.

I think quite a bit of this dovetails with what Ti designs talks about in terms of pedaling form. These adjustments can help you get close to providing force in the correct direction as the pedal moves around the crank revolution. Forces applied in other directions (particularly laterally) seem to sometimes be a result of bad fit. If the cleats are off laterally you can end up pushing sideways on the crank which is a waste, and you can also cause yourself to move around on the saddle which can make other things worse.. slide off the saddle a little bit to one side and now the angles on your leg might be off and you might not be getting correct extension on one leg or pushing down on the pedal in the bottom of the pedal stroke in a place that doesn't do anything except put more force on your foot.

In my case my cleat position was causing me to slide left on the saddle.. that effectively made my left leg act "long" and my right leg act "short". I'd get sore on the right side of the saddle and my left foot would have trouble because it was still pushing down at the bottom of the pedal stroke and I'd get a hot spot. It took me years to finally figure this out and some of the data really helped here, but I doubt I'd have figured it out myself if I'd just gotten the Garmin pedals. (Maybe though.)

Great post, i think this is the next step in my cycling obsession, i have a hard time setting cleat position, most shoes make it damn hard to know where you were vs where you want to be. then you wear out your cleats and have to do it again! maybe i need to go see a fitter about my cleats.

[sfscott]

Great post, i think this is the next step in my cycling obsession, i have a hard time setting cleat position, most shoes make it damn hard to know where you were vs where you want to be. then you wear out your cleats and have to do it again! maybe i need to go see a fitter about my cleats.

Check out cleats by a company called VP. The have a two-piece cleat that fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. One piece stays in place while you change the other and then flip-flop. The do Look Keo versions and pretty sure they do Shimano SPD-SL.

Just freaking brilliant. And why no one thought of that before.

[Ti Designs]

I think quite a bit of this dovetails with what Ti designs talks about in terms of pedaling form. These adjustments can help you get close to providing force in the correct direction as the pedal moves around the crank revolution.

Not sure how you knew what I'm about to talk about, but...

This is really something that Fire&Rescue brought up in a post a while ago - FAI. The hip joint is a ball and socket, there's no guarantee that rotation thru the pedal stroke will be unimpeded. I've struggled with a few clients to find a good alignment, so I came up with a set of pedals that just measure lateral force. What I found is that I could create a map of the acetabulu, wrap it in a circle and it looks just like the x-ray...

The Garmin pedals can read tension from either end of the strain gauge coil, so the have inside and outside readings. This can be pedal alignment (that line from hip to knee to foot - there are three somewhat defective joints in that line...) it could be reading balance issued from muscles rotating inside or outside (glutes wrap around the outside, IT band pulls to the outside, vastus laterallis tends to shift to the inside depending on knee travel) or it could be showing some level of FAI.

[benb]

Don't forget the measurement marks on a lot of shoes are not accurate... I'm not sure I've ever had a pair of shoes where the measurements on the bottom of the left and right shoe had any similarity to each other. Whoever puts the decal on before clear coating just randomly slaps it on there.

Just figured out my Specialized helmet is the same way.. I have had it for a year and couldn't figure out why it wanted to sit crooked on my head. It's got the "mindset" adjustment thing with an adjuster on each side of the helmet. Turns out the stickers for setting it were not put in the same place on the right and left side of the helmet. I'd set them both to "2" or something and that didn't actually set it straight.