Continental Competition Tubular

[Needs Help]

Why are they half price at biketiresdirect.com, $57.95 v. $119:

http://www.biketiresdirect.com/search_results.asp?cat=tt&tnum=2265088&c=3018362&st=1

[coylifut]

I don't know, but I bought a pair a few weeks ago. they come in the factory boxes. they are located a short drive from my office

[Lanternrouge]

Probably because they are grey market versus purchased through the U.S. distributor. I think the reason that they cost about half as much in Europe is because there's one less party in the supply chain between the manufacturer and consumer. I suppose the only downside if I'm right is that the U.S. distributor won't warranty the tires. They are, however, tires and and I believe the vendor sells its own form of warranty anyway.

[catulle]

Thanks for the tip. I think they are great tubulars.

[stevep]

there has been a large recent price adjustment down on this tire.
dont know the reason as they have switched distributors... but my guess is?
they have changed the tire manufacture somehow.
ask obtuce how? maybe he knows.
or ask ada?

[11.4]

Be sure you're looking at 2006 Comps, not 2005's. The 2006's are redesigned and everyone is blowing out 2005 inventory. There were also some pretty weird colors among the 2005's. That being said, BTD has superb prices on both version of the tire.

[oracle]

i heard (through my 'sources') it is because conti has ended their exclusive relationship with BM.

[coylifut]

Be sure you're looking at 2006 Comps, not 2005's. The 2006's are redesigned and everyone is blowing out 2005 inventory. There were also some pretty weird colors among the 2005's. That being said, BTD has superb prices on both version of the tire.

i can confirm that they are the 2006

[D-Squared]

They have two versions of Competitions -- one without the Vectran lining (cheaper) and one with Vectran (more Expensive).

[bostondrunk]

The conti prices have always differed a lot, it doesn't have to do with a sudden change of where they are being made, etc.
Nashbar and other mailorder houses have always charged roughly $60 for sprinters, and a lot more for competitions. Same for lbs's. Places like Bike tires direct and World Class Cycles have always been in the mid-high 30's for sprinters, and a little under $60 for competitions. This is nothing new.

[Grant McLean]

Conti just expanded their distribution of the tires in the USA.

My guess is now that the exclusive deal they used to have with a single
distributor is over, their new distributors are telling them they could sell
a lot more tubulars if the prices were lower.

g

[stevep]

the comps were really the only handmade tire in the line...have been quite expensive. now less so.
only reason i can think of. they are now only partly hand made.
might want to stock up on the old ones you paranoid guys.

[musgravecycles]

I've never really understood where the comps sit in the grand scheme of things.

The sprinters are great 'training' tires, wear like iron and ride decent. The comps don't really ride any better than the sprinters, yet are priced at the same level as much better tires. For handmade/racing tires people tend to gravitate towards veloflex's.

To recap, for me and most of my customers, it's either training tires (sprinters) or fast tires (veloflex).

Why buy comps...

[coylifut]

They have two versions of Competitions -- one without the Vectran lining (cheaper) and one with Vectran (more Expensive).


once again, i can confirm these are the new vectran model

[Grant McLean]

I've never really understood where the comps sit in the grand scheme of things.

Why buy comps...

The competition tires are a 5 ply casing, the sprinters are 3 ply.

g

[11.4]

the comps were really the only handmade tire in the line...have been quite expensive. now less so.
only reason i can think of. they are now only partly hand made.
might want to stock up on the old ones you paranoid guys.

Umm, actually they also have the Sonderclasse, the Steher, and the Olympic, which are all hand-made. The Competition is a mid-priced tire by these standards (the Olympics sell in pairs but were priced normally around $325 apiece by BikeMine -- needless to say, not a lot were sold). The Competition still has its casing wound, its tread applied, and its stitching and assembly done by hand (on machines, but not automated). The construction method isn't really any different from that on the Olympic, it's just that the materials and tolerances are a bit less.

Yes, BikeMine did try to stick unreal prices on the market. They also distributed Vittoria, and in those days would watch eBay and force the withdrawal of auctions that even had the word "Vittoria" in them. I recall once auctioning a pair of wheels and having the auction pulled because I listed the tires glued on them as a well-worn pair of Vittoria's. I don't know that anyone liked BikeMine except the stores that wanted to charge BikeMine's MSRP pricing and not have any competition out there. The flip side, of course, is when pricing is out of control and a cyclist can call up a wholesaler and get the same price his store does. This is a bit of a problem with Veloflexes, for example. It's not a grey market issue -- just bad distribution dynamics.

Do bear in mind that tubular prices are dropping overall. With the resurgence of tubulars and the appreciation of decent ones, the awful low-end crap of past years is disappearing and with greater volume, the better stuff is getting better prices. And with an open market once again, riders will buy a lot more tubulars at low markups over wholesale than they will at MSRP. This helps the boutique like Bike Tires Direct or World Class Cycles -- and they're great merchants to deal with -- but discourages the retail bike shops or large mail order shops that have to get greater margin with each item they sell. Tires as loss-leaders isn't feasible -- they're supposed to be one of the better-margin products in a bike shop. Personally, I'd rather buy tires from a specialist tire dealer than expect my local bike shop to carry a wide range of tubulars -- just like I don't go to the car dealer to replace my car tires.

[musgravecycles]

The competition tires are a 5 ply casing, the sprinters are 3 ply.

g

I know there are physical differences between the sprinters and the comps, as well as the machine/handmade issue, my question leans more towards a combination of 'road feel' and pricing.

If you wanted a great wearing decent riding tire, why buy the comps when they don't wear any better or 'feel' much different than the sprinters.

If you were in the market for a tire with excellent ride characteristics, the legendary tubular performance, then there are better tires for less $$$. I'll probably get flamed on this, but my experience has been that both comps and sprinters 'feel' more like good clinchers on the road than they do the tubular dream (Veloflex, Vittoria, etc).

If one was in the market for an uber-expensive "I've got it made, look at my bling bike" tire, there are better tires to fit that bill as well.

I'm not picking on continental, I ride sprinters on my training wheels, and think they are great tires, I just don't see what need they fill, what their niche is (Unless you're talking the 25s, but even then a veloflex/vittoria 24 is pretty close)....

[11.4]

I've always found that Conti's are quite sensitive to inflation pressure. Five pounds of pressure difference is enough to go from squishy to perfect, or perfect to hard and annoying. Sort-of like saddle angle, if you know what I mean.

When you get a Conti Competition tuned in just right, it's a very nice tire, and definitely nicer than an equally tuned Sprinter. The new Competition is also perceptibly smoother and more supple than the older one. On the track, I ride a variety of tires including Sprinters and Competitions, and find the new Competition, when inflated properly, outperforms the older one, which in turn outperforms a typical sprinter. I say "typical" because if you find a good batch of Sprinters, they're like a hidden treasure -- I'd race on them in an instant and always pull them aside for track use. When Sprinters are on a good streak, they're a superb tire -- very round, problem free, and quite comfortable to ride. When they're not, they're a real pain. Competitions show more quality control so you're more assured that they'll always do what you expect them to.

In contrast, a Veloflex has a broader range of inflation that produces a supple ride. However, note that if I start riding very rough roads (i.e., cobbles, railroad tracks, etc.), I've found that the Competitions are more surefooted on that kind of crap than the Veloflexes. The latter are at their best on relatively smooth roads.

Unfortunately, the new Competitions still seem to lose their base tapes unpredictably, although the newest Sprinters (with the black base tape) seem more resistant to this problem. On the track, this problem rears its head pretty quickly.

So to answer your question, Musgrave, I do think there's a particular niche for the Conti's, and that Veloflexes have similar niches. If you race, you can really treasure both tires. If riding noncompetitively or riding long road races on reasonably good roads, the Veloflexes probably have the edge. But there are circumstances where I prefer the Conti's. On the track, I can definitely assure you that the Conti's give a much more sure-footed stance at track pressures than you can get with Veloflexes.

[musgravecycles]

11.4

I've always found your posts incredibly informative, especially anything wheel related, keep'em coming.

I'm not a track guy (though I've always lusted after a pair of Steher's for TT), so I'll default to you on anything track related....

Our last couple of batches of sprinters have been excellent tires, much better than they used to be. I actually ordered 6 sprinters for myself today, hopefully they are just as good.

I'll tuck the rough roads=comps away in the memory banks for a rainy day. I've also noticed that sprinters seem a little more sure of themselves on wet/snowy spring roads than veloflex's as well... Thanks again for the info.

[Grant McLean]

I know there are physical differences between the sprinters and the comps, as well as the machine/handmade issue, my question leans more towards a combination of 'road feel' and pricing.

If you wanted a great wearing decent riding tire, why buy the comps when they don't wear any better or 'feel' much different than the sprinters.

If you were in the market for a tire with excellent ride characteristics, the legendary tubular performance, then there are better tires for less $$$. I'll probably get flamed on this, but my experience has been that both comps and sprinters 'feel' more like good clinchers on the road than they do the tubular dream (Veloflex, Vittoria, etc).

If one was in the market for an uber-expensive "I've got it made, look at my bling bike" tire, there are better tires to fit that bill as well.

I'm not picking on continental, I ride sprinters on my training wheels, and think they are great tires, I just don't see what need they fill, what their niche is (Unless you're talking the 25s, but even then a veloflex/vittoria 24 is pretty close)....

"to finish first, you must first finish".... I'm not sure who said it, but it's a classic.

The competition tires are designed to be all about durability. The extra
layers of finer thread casing are there for protection, without added weight,
or sacrifice of performance. I rode competitions for about 10 years, until
recently when they changed the rubber. I never had a flat on a competition
tire in over 100,000 km. I rode them to the bare threads, on road, off road,
in the city, over glass, everywhere. After a while, I stopped carrying a spare.
The newer silica grey compound just wears too fast for my liking, and the
ride quality is super-sensitive to pressure, just like 11.4 was explaining in
his post. I'm light, so I rode them at about 90psi in training. I mostly ride
clinchers now, although I've got a set of the new Deda Olymipico tubulars, and
RS Corsa clinchers that i LOVE the ride quality. But if you want the best
resistance against cuts and flats, the Competitions cannot be beat. For those
who seem to get a lot of flats and want to fix the problem, they could be the
best bet for you.

g

[Too Tall]

This yr. I've experimented with a few diff. mfg. of tubulars for commuting and some racing. I lost some $$s and learned a lesson...stick with what works. A RESOUNDING vote of confidence in the quality of Sprinters and Competitions for a variety of uses. Like 11.4 I've used my good ones for track racing. The sprinters are also far and away my best commuter tubular. Not only are they a great ride, they are tough as nails and long wearing...go figure? I'll ride Competitions (25s) for the Deerfield event.

[bostondrunk]

I too have had great luck in general with sprinters, although I did have one of the new style sprinters puncture on me after only about 100 km, bad luck, first flat tire in a year. I've used competitions as well, and have never had one go flat. As Grant pointed out, I don't think the competitions are designed or priced to give more comfort, etc., they are made to be more durable.

[Too Tall]

Grant - BTW that pic. Dewd, you are are BA.
Poseurs beware!!! The guy rides his bike, washes it off and repeats as needed :)

[chrisroph]

11.4 has it right on as usual. Conti comps ride really well at the proper pressure, which on the road is less that needed in a nice cotton tire like veloflex, nos vittoria, etc. On the track, they stick and excel at higher pressures. For my money, its not worth messing with sprinters as anything other than a training tire because of the inconsistent quality. Sometimes they are nice and round and sometimes they are not.

At $50-55 per tire, the comps are a very good bargain. I have a pair on my 303's (which haven't seen any action this year), and I have one on my track disc, with a nos conti LA 19 on my front track shamal.

[Grant McLean]

Grant - BTW that pic. Dewd, you are are BA.
Poseurs beware!!! The guy rides his bike, washes it off and repeats as needed :)

Geeze TT, you're making me blush! but thanks :)


P.S.
Yes, it's clean again!
(thank goodness for ebay!)

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=168687&postcount=1

g

[Grant McLean]

This could also explain low prices out there on conti competitions:

http://www.velonews.com/tech/report/articles/10806.0.html

new GP4000 tubular, looks like it replaces the comp.

g

[catulle]

Hey, I was just writing all kinds of good things about Competitions glued with Tufo Extreme, and just yesterday noticed that the tubie on my rear wheel is turning. I'm gonna have to peel it off and find out what's going on. Maybe Toyo, I mean Atmo is right and Toyo is the way to go, atmo.

[11.4]

I've just not had a great experience with Tufo tapes. I also think the adhesion is inconsistent. At first I couldn't understand why some riders would have such trouble removing a tape-mounted tire while others had easy removal. Then I had some of the same variability. Some of it I tracked down to the tire choice and to the temperature of installation, some to method, and a lot to inconsistency in the tapes themselves.

As for tire choice: Some tires have very coarse base tapes and you only have as much glue as there is on the Tufo tape -- if it isn't quite enough to adhere the tire, you won't like the adhesion. Tires with very fine base tapes (like Vittoria Evo CX Pista's) don't get enough penetration to stick really well.

As for temperature, the tape is actually quite sensitive to both temperature and humidity when you install the tape. (So is Mastik One, but it's more obvious because you can feel the glue coat and look at it to make sure it's dried properly.) One can simplify installation by dampening the base tape just before mounting the tire. The Tufo tape won't stick to the tire until the moisture has dissipated, so you can adjust the tire a bit.

But I've also found quite a bit of disparity in the weight of the tapes, which I attribute to differences in glue content. I'd find these differences in new batches of tapes delivered in the same batch to a shop. I'm talking about 50% variation which, given the way it works, can result in painfully strong glue jobs or not enough to hold the tire properly.

When I HAVE used Tufo tapes, such as on some cross wheels, I've found that it helps a lot to put a coat or two of rim cement on the rim and one on the tire. Yes, it makes the rim tape stick a lot more but it guarantees a strong bond. I notice at that point that when the tire comes off, the glue tends to separate at the Tufo tape. I'm then able to peel the Tufo tape off with a pair of pliers -- if the rim is cool, it comes off with a hard yank in one long piece. Of course, at that point, I'd just glue the tire anyway. That was the conclusion I came to.

By the way, on Soyo rim cement, I definitely agree that it's stronger than anything else out there short of a shellac job. For cross tubulars or for track -- both situations in which there are unusual forces trying to lever the tire off the rim -- it makes sense. Do note that it's very toxic (e-Richie, is that why my frame is so long in coming???). You absolutely want to glue it up (and let glued-up tires and rims dry) outdoors, and you don't want it on your hands. Nasty stuff. I'm actually surprised it's allowed to be sold in the US. It does make a good base for other glues, but doesn't stick as well on top of Mastik One or Conti rim cement -- go figure.

[obtuse]

I've just not had a great experience with Tufo tapes. I also think the adhesion is inconsistent. At first I couldn't understand why some riders would have such trouble removing a tape-mounted tire while others had easy removal. Then I had some of the same variability. Some of it I tracked down to the tire choice and to the temperature of installation, some to method, and a lot to inconsistency in the tapes themselves.

As for tire choice: Some tires have very coarse base tapes and you only have as much glue as there is on the Tufo tape -- if it isn't quite enough to adhere the tire, you won't like the adhesion. Tires with very fine base tapes (like Vittoria Evo CX Pista's) don't get enough penetration to stick really well.

As for temperature, the tape is actually quite sensitive to both temperature and humidity when you install the tape. (So is Mastik One, but it's more obvious because you can feel the glue coat and look at it to make sure it's dried properly.) One can simplify installation by dampening the base tape just before mounting the tire. The Tufo tape won't stick to the tire until the moisture has dissipated, so you can adjust the tire a bit.

But I've also found quite a bit of disparity in the weight of the tapes, which I attribute to differences in glue content. I'd find these differences in new batches of tapes delivered in the same batch to a shop. I'm talking about 50% variation which, given the way it works, can result in painfully strong glue jobs or not enough to hold the tire properly.

When I HAVE used Tufo tapes, such as on some cross wheels, I've found that it helps a lot to put a coat or two of rim cement on the rim and one on the tire. Yes, it makes the rim tape stick a lot more but it guarantees a strong bond. I notice at that point that when the tire comes off, the glue tends to separate at the Tufo tape. I'm then able to peel the Tufo tape off with a pair of pliers -- if the rim is cool, it comes off with a hard yank in one long piece. Of course, at that point, I'd just glue the tire anyway. That was the conclusion I came to.

By the way, on Soyo rim cement, I definitely agree that it's stronger than anything else out there short of a shellac job. For cross tubulars or for track -- both situations in which there are unusual forces trying to lever the tire off the rim -- it makes sense. Do note that it's very toxic (e-Richie, is that why my frame is so long in coming???). You absolutely want to glue it up (and let glued-up tires and rims dry) outdoors, and you don't want it on your hands. Nasty stuff. I'm actually surprised it's allowed to be sold in the US. It does make a good base for other glues, but doesn't stick as well on top of Mastik One or Conti rim cement -- go figure.

you shouldn't smoke while using soyo cement either.

by the way, the conti steher is the best tubular tire around. just make sure you don't order the 24inch size; unless of course you are actually doing stayer events in which case; ahm...yeah liege is nice this time of year.

obtuse

[catulle]

Thank you so much for the advice. I think you're very right about the temperature/humidity aspect. If I remember correctly, when I installed that tire I applied the tape in an air conditioned room and then went outside (extremey humid) to fit the tubular. The contrast in temperature and humidity might have had something to do with it. Also, the tubular is a Continental Competition.

[djg]

Hey, I was just writing all kinds of good things about Competitions glued with Tufo Extreme, and just yesterday noticed that the tubie on my rear wheel is turning. I'm gonna have to peel it off and find out what's going on. Maybe Toyo, I mean Atmo is right and Toyo is the way to go, atmo.

I tried some tufo extreme tape on my fixie this year. At first I was pleased--extremely easy to use and the tires seemed well affixed to the rim the next day. But after a while, and some hot weather, the tires seemed to shift a bit and all sorts of little globs of glue worked their way out around the tire. I don't think I'll try the stuff again.

[catulle]

I tried some tufo extreme tape on my fixie this year. At first I was pleased--extremely easy to use and the tires seemed well affixed to the rim the next day. But after a while, and some hot weather, the tires seemed to shift a bit and all sorts of little globs of glue worked their way out around the tire. I don't think I'll try the stuff again.


Yup, it's very hot down here. I think I'll glue it again tomorrow with Conti glue which is what I have at hand. I'll leave the front wheel as it is for the time being.

[santabarbara]

11.4 has it right on as usual. Conti comps ride really well at the proper pressure, which on the road is less that needed in a nice cotton tire like veloflex, nos vittoria, etc. On the track, they stick and excel at higher pressures. For my money, its not worth messing with sprinters as anything other than a training tire because of the inconsistent quality. Sometimes they are nice and round and sometimes they are not.

At $50-55 per tire, the comps are a very good bargain. I have a pair on my 303's (which haven't seen any action this year), and I have one on my track disc, with a nos conti LA 19 on my front track shamal.

So, what *is* the proper (read as "Preferred" to dissipate bickering) pressure on the Conti's? Bear in mind, these will be on the road, not on the track.

11.4, get my PM?

[oracle]

proper tire pressure will depend somewhat on overall beer consumption....

[11.4]

So, what *is* the proper (read as "Preferred" to dissipate bickering) pressure on the Conti's? Bear in mind, these will be on the road, not on the track.

11.4, get my PM?

Read post #18 above. My proper/preferred pressure won't be the same as yours. Different people like different ride qualities. Some like squishy that sacrifices some steering and road feel but also takes out the vibration from chipseal and the like. Others like a more responsive feel. You can get the former (squishy) from a less expensive tire. The trick is to get responsiveness without having it hard; that's where an expensive tire with a more supple casing comes into its own. If you ride a rock-hard rim like a Ksyrium, you aren't going to get the full benefit of such a tire because the rim still bangs you around a bit, but on the other hand you want as much relief from the rim as you can get, so a nice tire at the right pressure is a plus. If you ride a rim like a Mavic Paris Roubaix that's quite springy and supple, you can really make the most of a high-end responsive tire but the rim also helps make up for a less responsive tire. A Paris Roubaix basically makes any tire feel good. A Ksyrium makes almost any tire feel hard. So ... try a pressure on the roads you ride and with your personal riding style and go up or down by 5 psi intervals (typically between 90 and 120 psi, most likely 105-110 psi for most people) until you find the ride you like. Remember, it's not like you can't change it later if you want something else or if you're riding a better or worse kind of road. I'll move pressure up and down a bit depending on how hard a ride I'm doing, whether I'm feeling good that day, etc.

And yes, I got your pm. Thanks.

[Johny]

So, what *is* the proper (read as "Preferred" to dissipate bickering) pressure on the Conti's? Bear in mind, these will be on the road, not on the track.

11.4, get my PM?

M,

I have 25mm Conti Comp's and 90 psi (front and back) is great for me (around 142# now...).

John

[santabarbara]

Thanks folks. These will be going onto the new 12K weave Corima Aero's, so plenty stiff. I like riding it rock hard, and normally inflate to 120PSI, but that was/is on DTRR1.1 clinchers, which aren't the stiffest rim, and are entirely different from the tubies, so we'll see how the Aero's respond. Instructions on the Conti's say up to 143psi (10bar), but am wondering if that's way beyond what the tire can withstand. Thanks!

[obtuse]

Read post #18 above. My proper/preferred pressure won't be the same as yours. Different people like different ride qualities. Some like squishy that sacrifices some steering and road feel but also takes out the vibration from chipseal and the like. Others like a more responsive feel. You can get the former (squishy) from a less expensive tire. The trick is to get responsiveness without having it hard; that's where an expensive tire with a more supple casing comes into its own. If you ride a rock-hard rim like a Ksyrium, you aren't going to get the full benefit of such a tire because the rim still bangs you around a bit, but on the other hand you want as much relief from the rim as you can get, so a nice tire at the right pressure is a plus. If you ride a rim like a Mavic Paris Roubaix that's quite springy and supple, you can really make the most of a high-end responsive tire but the rim also helps make up for a less responsive tire. A Paris Roubaix basically makes any tire feel good. A Ksyrium makes almost any tire feel hard. So ... try a pressure on the roads you ride and with your personal riding style and go up or down by 5 psi intervals (typically between 90 and 120 psi, most likely 105-110 psi for most people) until you find the ride you like. Remember, it's not like you can't change it later if you want something else or if you're riding a better or worse kind of road. I'll move pressure up and down a bit depending on how hard a ride I'm doing, whether I'm feeling good that day, etc.

And yes, I got your pm. Thanks.

11.4

other than you and i and maybe four other people on this forum; no one has ridden a mavic paris-roubaix rim.....it's ironic how awful some wheels really are....at least a harsh riding ksryium behaves predictably and consistently on all planes no matter how you push it.......now a supple tire will fix just about anything; but it doesn't make many of these awful carbon wheels a viable choice for road racing.

obtuse

[Grant McLean]

11.4

other than you and i and maybe four other people on this forum; no one has ridden a mavic paris-roubaix rim.....
obtuse

i've been hula-hooping most of the rainy afternoon....

g

[obtuse]

i've been hula-hooping most of the rainy afternoon....

g


awesome- i have ten pair of paris-roubaix rims all laced to a dura-ace nine speed hubs. a friend who used to be product manager for bontrager "found" them and sold them to me for fifty dollars a pair. they will not go anywhere except on my bicycles.

obtuse

[Grant McLean]

awesome- i have ten pair of paris-roubaix rims all laced to a dura-ace nine speed hubs. a friend who used to be product manager for bontrager "found" them and sold them to me for fifty dollars a pair. they will not go anywhere except on my bicycles.

obtuse

cool. It's amazing what goes out of fashion, and gets cleared out for next to
nothing. The canadian mavic distributor cleaned house on a bunch of mavic
tubular rims a few years ago. I got a bunch of mach2cd2's, 2 pr of paris roubaix
(yellow decal ones) and a whole bunch of mtb M231 cd rims for $5. Around
the same time, I bought some old label GP4's for $10 a rim from a friends shop,
and found those pictured SSC's for $60 at another shop. They were all grateful
that I made them "go away". Tubulars scare the heck out of most shops
these days.

Right after I got my next track bike project going I saw these Araya's on ebay,
and had to ban myself from the computer until the auction was over!!
I think they sell for $120 per rim if you order them from EAI.

g

[mls]

There seems to be more quality tubulars now available at
more resonable prices. I have been giving the thought of
going back to them (I would try the veloflex roubaix)
but what rims are out there worth building up ? Low
profile , alloy , and not nos that cost crazy $$$ on ebay ?
It seems some of you guys got all the good ones either
hidden away or some kinda inside line on them.

[Grant McLean]

...but what rims are out there worth building up ? Low
profile , alloy , and not nos that cost crazy $$$ on ebay ?


http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=mavic%20reflex&btnG=Google+Search&sa=N&tab=wi

g

[obtuse]

cool. It's amazing what goes out of fashion, and gets cleared out for next to
nothing. The canadian mavic distributor cleaned house on a bunch of mavic
tubular rims a few years ago. I got a bunch of mach2cd2's, 2 pr of paris roubaix
(yellow decal ones) and a whole bunch of mtb M231 cd rims for $5. Around
the same time, I bought some old label GP4's for $10 a rim from a friends shop,
and found those pictured SSC's for $60 at another shop. They were all grateful
that I made them "go away". Tubulars scare the heck out of most shops
these days.

g


these ones were extras for u.s. postal. all the decals were removed and replaced with "bontrager" decals. 32 hole, tied and soldered brass nipples three cross the whole freaking get georgie another top five, freaking deal. the only reason i knew about'em was that a certain luxembourger gave me his set after het volk a number of years ago....so i knew there had to be more, so i called in a favor.

anyway,
obtuse

[obtuse]

http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=mavic%20reflex&btnG=Google+Search&sa=N&tab=wi

g


ambrosios are nice too.

obtuse

oops wrong ambrosio.

[mls]

Grant I hear they crack around the eyelets and
that I dont want. Have you had good luck w/them ?

[chrisroph]

11.4

other than you and i and maybe four other people on this forum; no one has ridden a mavic paris-roubaix rim.....it's ironic how awful some wheels really are....at least a harsh riding ksryium behaves predictably and consistently on all planes no matter how you push it.......now a supple tire will fix just about anything; but it doesn't make many of these awful carbon wheels a viable choice for road racing.

obtuse

I've got a pair of 28's that I laced to campy record hubs, tied and soldered and glued on some comps. They are nice old school wheels that are very comfortable. They're currently on the spectrum steel. I've got a pair of CX's that I might glue up next spring.

[sspielman]

ambrosios are nice too.

obtuse

oops wrong ambrosio.

I see they are reinforced around the eyelets.....(the other Ambrosio that is)