House Husband

[joosttx]

I am planning to make the transition from an executive in the corporate world to managing to kids and house. It's a little scary but I think We have the process all mapped out. Any experiences?

[hokoman]

Going to work is a lot easier than managing a home. I left work almost 2 years ago to spend time with the family, and both my wife and I are at home... it's A LOT of work (we have 2 toddlers).

Good luck!

[Mzilliox]

I have not worked a full time job in a few years. We followed my wife's Job for so long, and now we are settled in a small town. there isn't much to do here beyond entrepreneurship or selling real estate.

Now im a "trophy husband". its good for the riding, thats for sure. I find there are pressures from friends and family, its very hard for society to understand and digest a man not working while a woman works full time. some comment on it with a jaded envy, some with genuine jealousy. some people seem to understand that for quality of life, there is no point in me working, i contribute a lot more as a house husband to comfort. I will never out earn my wife without illegal activity or extreme luck, so why try? I think she values the extra boost in quality of life that my freedom allos. whenever she does have time off we can travel or hang out.

I garden a lot, i cook and clean, i take care dogs and chickens and ducks, and i work part time here and there as a fishing guide, coffee roaster, and whatever else i can manage. im learning new skills and patience. staying at home and self managing time can be challenging at times.

I wish you the best of luck, its a strange transition, but if you can find balance, its very rewarding for overall quality of life.

Have fun!

[vav]

House / kids harder than business world me thinks. I took a very rewarding and very hard 6 month paternity leave and managed the house and kids. Public libraries are a big asset with tons of stuff for kids. Good luck :hello:

[Cicli]

Good luck,
Thats alot of work.

[Ralph]

One of my riding friends is a "Mister Mom". His wife has a hi income job she loves, she never liked staying home and being a "traditional" housewife and doing house work, so he does that. Works out great. He gets to ride after kids get off to school. I don't think one can find any fault with how he and wife run their lives.

If you have it all worked out, good for you. You are not alone.

[dbnm]

I have been a stay at home dad of sorts for the last 8 years. I still run my business from home too, which can be really frustrating at times, especially when trying to do video lectures with students.

With that being said, it has been very rewarding and does allow some extra time for riding. I mostly ride during the week now while the kids are in school and we spend our weekends together.

Just remember to take some walks and visit the local coffee shop often.

[SoCalSteve]

Does staying at home and taking care of my wife ( who has a high powered job ) count? I run errands for her, make sure she gets out the door in the morning with coffee and have dinner waiting for her at night...it's not 100% retirement, but it seems to work for me...:beer:

[jinbok]

It's a weird transition and a lot of work - completely different than work you get from the Corp.

I think planning out your days schedule right is the key tho.

Huge bonus for working at home is - you get to spend more time with your family + more/flexible riding time!

[dbnm]

A little bit of advice:
Keep shaving.
Don't brag about your naps.
Get a secret Netflix account.
Never get a lunchtime buzz.
Keep your car as clean as your bike.
Throw away all matinee movie ticket stubs.
Block your wife from seeing your Strava.
Don't mention meeting your buddies for lunch.
Start tagging your secret instagram photos with #hookyride.

I'm joking of course. Mostly.

:)

[batman1425]

Interested in this myself... My job will never compare to my wife's earnings, not even close. We've never talked about me staying home in a formal sense, but the thought has crossed my mind for when our family grows beyond just us.

We already have someone helping out with cleaning - we keep up with cooking, clutter, and the laundry but that's about all we have time for currently. The once a month cleaning help is a major help for us and it would get harder to keep up and would need more frequent visits with a bigger family. Daycare is also a serious expense. Depending on the area daycare could easily soak up half of one partner's salary. IMO, at some point, the net part time salary after daycare/house help isn't worth the lost time with family - just not sure where that point is though - it's different for everyone.

My biggest concern with the idea transitioning to a house husband role is making sure I stay stimulated and driven in a professional sense and finding ways to incorporate that into/around the roles with family at home. My specific professional skill set isn't well adapted to part time work, so I'd be looking to develop something new, which is also exciting/challenging.

[vqdriver]

A little bit of advice:
Keep shaving.
Don't brag about your naps.
Get a secret Netflix account.
Never get a lunchtime buzz.
Keep your car as clean as your bike.
Throw away all matinee movie ticket stubs.
Block your wife from seeing your Strava.
Don't mention meeting your buddies for lunch.
Start tagging your secret instagram photos with #hookyride.

I'm joking of course. Mostly.

:)

this is funny. but also prescient.
the wildcard may be how your wife adapts. if you start taking liberties in areas you didn't before, you may give her pause.

[Tickdoc]

One of my best friends has been a house mom as long as I've known him (about 15 yrs now).

He lives alameda , not the cheapest part of the country to live in, but his wife has a good job and he manages it well. It was work when their child was younger, but is easy Peasy now that he is in college.

I couldn't do it. I would be the laziest sob on the planet without my job. I can barely manage my free time as is, too much of it is no bueno.

Best of luck and keep us posted!

[OtayBW]

I am planning to make the transition from an executive in the corporate world to managing to kids and house. It's a little scary but I think We have the process all mapped out. Any experiences?
At this stage of my life, I would like to find a nice woman who would treat me in a manner to which I would like to become accustomed! Does your wife have any sisters (I can cook).
;)

[sparky33]

Going from both working to not, have a frank talk about things. The not-financial stuff becomes a big deal when one person is working the job and the other is tending the family etc. Fairness can get weird.

That said, having a parent at home is generally great for everyone. Good for you.

Also, does this mean more ride photos?

[bobswire]

Going to work is a lot easier than managing a home. I left work almost 2 years ago to spend time with the family, and both my wife and I are at home... it's A LOT of work (we have 2 toddlers).

Good luck!

A not only that, Hokoman will hand deliver items to anyone who buys bike parts from him no matter where you live in the World. :)
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=2151304#post2151304

[eddief]

I would think the attitude adjustment would be really challenging especially if you liked your work. Did you? If not, then a new set of challenges and activities could be just right for you. Ultimately, I think happiness depends a lot on if your work matches the values that you consider to be important for how you spend your time on this earth.

Corporate execs usually deal with complex problems, house husbands probably not so much. Clean up one kind of mess in the office and other kinds of messes at home.


I am planning to make the transition from an executive in the corporate world to managing to kids and house. It's a little scary but I think We have the process all mapped out. Any experiences?

[zennmotion]

I would try to keep a minimum level of professional activity if possible, something like consulting (maybe your current employer would be amenable to your staying active on an advisory or surge capacity on a current project). I think this would be good for your sanity, marriage, and maintaining your currency and relevance in the job market when you return. You can choose your projects, escape the daily office BS, spend time with the kiddos, work on some house projects, learn to cook (better), write some articles or a book and get a dog. Advice from someone who's been there in the past- minimize screen time and new bike crap= bad domestic politics, (and geez you're set for life- we know what's in the garage) N-1 is a winning formula when earnings and working hours are unbalanced.

[cuwinbs]

i've been doing it for a year now and it's been great.I have a 13 and 9 year old girls and they love it. Hardest part is when other parents ask you what you do for a living... lol. Good luck and enjoy it.

[peanutgallery]

I'm going to say it and it won't be popular and apparently not PC in today's day and age.....Beta Male

Dudes earn, they are not very nurturing. If you spend time at home as a job result that's one thing...a concious decision is another. Good luck getting another job in ten years that's an equivalent. You're done. Consulting is an option and might mitigate the damage

If I sound harsh it's a cause I'm old school and would never rely on my significant other to support my family so I could ride more and keep my car cleaner

[nmrt]

in all seriousness, coming from a different country, I have never really understood what "old school" means. Can someone clarify.

I'm going to say it and it won't be popular and apparently not PC in today's day and age.....Beta Male

Dudes earn, they are not very nurturing. If you spend time at home as a job result that's one thing...a concious decision is another. Good luck getting another job in ten years that's an equivalent. You're done. Consulting is an option and might mitigate the damage

If I sound harsh it's a cause I'm old school and would never rely on my significant other to support my family so I could ride more and keep my car cleaner

[joosttx]

I'm going to say it and it won't be popular and apparently not PC in today's day and age.....Beta Male

Dudes earn, they are not very nurturing. If you spend time at home as a job result that's one thing...a concious decision is another. Good luck getting another job in ten years that's an equivalent. You're done. Consulting is an option and might mitigate the damage

If I sound harsh it's a cause I'm old school and would never rely on my significant other to support my family so I could ride more and keep my car cleaner

please.....

[peanutgallery]

Real men provide for their family... it's ingrained from grandfathers that drug Japanese snipers out of trees and killed them with their bare hands while bored on Bougainville ...hence "old school"

in all seriousness, coming from a different country, I have never really understood what "old school" means. Can someone clarify.

[peanutgallery]

Sniff what?

I am sure if you sniffed my nuts you would not call me a beta male. My wife and I have been talking about this for 5 years. What you are talking about was very difficult for me to deal with. And probably the biggest thing for me to get around. About a year ago I got over that. A lot of my ego was tied up in my ability to provide and do it better than others, like you. Its a state of mind where you find value. At least this is what i have learned from this journey.

[jamesau]

I quit my successful fulltime engineering career when my kids were aged 6 and 10. They’re grown now. It was the right choice for all involved at the time.

What helps to make this nontraditional arrangement work is that you make the choice willingly and that you have the support of your spouse. It still can be hard and challenging work; you run the day-to-day business of the household and ensure the kids/spouse have all the support they need from you to be successful. There will be an adjustment period (took me a year).

I have a great relationship with my adult children and a great marriage.

Expect your other adult relationships to change as well and be prepared to be surprised by how others respond to your choice. You may be shunned or idolized by other men (and everything in between). I’ve encountered few other men who have chosen this path and been successful at it.

Some advice I’d give: be committed to the decision/role, give yourself time to make the adjustment, be frank/open with the arrangement on an ongoing basis with your spouse, plan projects for the winter months (when cabin fever can otherwise set in), try to stay current in your field (because fortunes can change and you may need to return), and try new things (or rediscover joys from your youth). My rediscovered joy was cycling.

Good luck!

[nmrt]

Thanks for the clarification. I had assumed such but was not completely sure in what context "old school" was being used.
So, I can only hope that these men who do not provide for their families monetarily do not take offence because they are not, what you classify as, "real men". Because I can only wonder that if they are not "real men" then what are they -- unreal men? real women?

Real men provide for their family... it's ingrained from grandfathers that drug Japanese snipers out of trees and killed them with their bare hands while bored on Bougainville ...hence "old school"

[fuzzalow]

Real men provide for their family... it's ingrained from grandfathers that drug Japanese snipers out of trees and killed them with their bare hands while bored on Bougainville ...hence "old school"

Whatta hoot. Bless your old school heart for upholding antiquated traditions from the time of manly men labor capitalism.

It is 2017 and in the world I work in, we value, seek to discover and endeavor to cultivate intellectual capital anywhere we can get it, whether it pours outta the head of a he or a she and irrespective as to how they live their lawful lives 'cos anything else is 'nunya. Which means in the modern world, there is great flexibility to how any family defines its work patterns and responsibilities because most anyone knows how precious talent is and how those skills translate to the bottom line incomes of any family.

You wanna leave money on the table, that's your business and entirely up to you.

Man, the riff on Japanese snipers is sublimated racism. The nation of Japan has been a staunch ally and valued trading partner of The United States of American almost from the immediate time of Japan's acceptance of the Potsdam Declaration. You are rude.

[Cicli]

I am sure if you sniffed my nuts you would not call me a beta male. My wife and I have been talking about this for 5 years.

A little weird.

[HenryA]

About all I can add is to do something to keep yourself marketable. You never know when you might need to go out and kill dinner again.

[dbnm]

Now you can get a neck tattoo.

[Schmed]

Re: the old school comment (husband is the provider)...

I have heard situations where the woman actually prefers the husband to be the provider. She may not realize that until she's in the working world and is working with strong, successful, powerful men and realizes that she's attracted to that.

Not saying it's right, but it does happen.

[EPIC! Stratton]

I'll add my $0.02 to the discussion. I think it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, so long as you and your SO have discussed it, and keep an open channel for communication about what works for your family. Right now my wife and I both work, and If we could both afford to stay home I know we would would. If I worked and she could/wanted to stay home, that'd be fine too, as would her working and me staying home. Especially when you start adding in the costs for childcare (where you're effectively paying someone else to raise your kids). Raising kids, doing chores, etc, is more than a full time job. ATMO, "being a man/woman/person" means doing what you need to do for your family - whether this is working your tuchas off at multiple jobs, long hours at one, or staying home and raising your kids while your partner does the job thing.

It's all about what works for you, your family, and absolutely no one else.

More power to you my friend. No shame in this. No shame in enjoying it.

[Mikej]

Hey - I would just enjoy it. My sons grew up so fast I can't believe it- we were never a money type of family, meaning we never had the upper level jobs, but we both work and have enough to enjoy life. Just not a fancy car or fancy house type of life (ok but fancy bikes for me) - it's all about the journey my friend, never forget that.

[Kirk007]

Real men provide for their family... it's ingrained

While I would agree that this indoctrination is real particularly for those of us born more than a few decades ago, and I would agree it can be a challenge to overcome, I can't help but wonder of the correlation between this and the opiod - suicide epidemic of white males older than 50. I've tried to move beyond this limited thinking and now believe that a real man is one who doesn't confuse who he is with what he does.

Joostx, you seem to have been at it and around for awhile in the "real world" - I'm betting you are smart enough not to confuse doing with being. Go for it.

[1X10]

My 2 pennies...I have 11 and 7 year old daughters..My wife travels a tonne for work(airline) and her sched changes on the 23rd of each month...I have maintained my career(GC superintendent past 8 years) but only by the slimmest of slim...

When she is away I have to balance...Not easy considering I am 7 days a week for 10 months of the year...

I love hanging out with my daughters and watching them enjoy and grow in their life...

Side note, I AM tired of being on the clock for scheduling, turning down invites for nearly everything, jamming 12 hr days into 6, etc, etc, jamming 4 hr rides into 1, etc, etc...

If $ had not been an issue I would have taken the permanent break...Only hitch my career would have been history...

I like being a Dad but you can't put it on your CV and expect any magic...:)

I hope you can enjoy...Bike will assist!!

Cheers and good luck

[FlashUNC]

Start that bike touring company. I'll drive the truck.

You'll be fine man.

[zennmotion]

Joostx, you seem to have been at it and around for awhile in the "real world" - I'm betting you are smart enough not to confuse doing with being. Go for it.

This. He's more professionally accomplished and better educated than 90+% of anyone in here. Clearly, his wife is too. Holy crap, some of the above responses seem like they're coming out of narrow minded insecurity, and here I thought "old school" just meant steel bikes and civility.

PS- I understand that there is no distributor for Chelata in Marin. In he needs a Plan B.

[Hilltopperny]

I am an ex union laborer who struggled with this position after a life altering injury took away my ability to do my job. After three years I am looking at rejoining the workforce at the very least part time as being home for so long has been tough, but the house is clean, kid is taken care of and I cook breakfast and dinner for my wife everyday. I get to coach my daughters softball team and don't ever have to miss her basketball or field hockey games either.

If it's cool with your wife then I say go for it. I get the whole old school argument, but it's a new world and lots of things have changed. If you are comfortable enough in your masculinity and financially able to do so it can be a very fulfilling role. Don't let anybody give you s#!t for doing what you feel is right and you'll be fine. :beer:

[OtayBW]

This. He's more professionally accomplished and better educated than 90+% of anyone in here.
Which is why I echo the sentiment expressed earlier to consider keeping one foot in your professional endeavor - or keeping some kind of option open. Once you get out, particularly if it's for some time, it can be hard to reenter in your field should you choose to do so should conditions change.

[joosttx]

Thanks, man. Good advice and perspective. Good luck on the return.

@zennmotion - I ain't selling 3.2 Bud Cheleda. :)



I am an ex union laborer who struggled with this position after a life altering injury took away my ability to do my job. After three years I am looking at rejoining the workforce at the very least part time as being home for so long has been tough, but the house is clean, kid is taken care of and I cook breakfast and dinner for my wife everyday. I get to coach my daughters softball team and don't ever have to miss her basketball or field hockey games either.

If it's cool with your wife then I say go for it. I get the whole old school argument, but it's a new world and lots of things have changed. If you are comfortable enough in your masculinity and financially able to do so it can be a very fulfilling role. Don't let anybody give you s#!t for doing what you feel is right and you'll be fine. :beer:

[fuzzalow]

I am planning to make the transition from an executive in the corporate world to managing to kids and house. It's a little scary but I think We have the process all mapped out. Any experiences?

Not to pry but lotta details missing from anyone being able to offer suggestions that might be applicable to your situation.

Dunno what industry you're in, dunno how old you are, dunno how many and how old kids are, if any, yada yada yada.

Dunno if you wanna step out of your current job or were asked to leave; don't take this the wrong way because if you work on The Street, good people are sent packing all the time and it makes a difference if the firm decided it didn't want to cover the product you might cover versus having a skill that's deemed not useful anymore, say for example a floor trader. Some of my old friends that were floor traders never got back into financial services once the nature & technology of certain types of trading changed and obsoleted their jobs.

Why the long setup? Because me and Mrs. fuzz lived through it and did not house husband or house wife anything - we found a way to make it work splitting the chores between the two of us. There is no secret - sheer force of will and commitment to each other, in both for each person and each's career, made it work for us in some way. The difficulty will vary based on the age your kids are but this too shall pass and the time goes quicker than you think.

I don't have facts, so what I'm saying may be patently absurd to you. But what I am suggesting is that house husband need not be an inevitable consequence and foregone conclusion. Good luck.

[joosttx]

That's fair. I am 45, two kids (young school age). I travel a ton -151K miles last year for example. Wife is traveling more and working more. She an attorney. I run a business unit for a chemical company. I get the sheer force thing. We do it. We work very hard. We have or financial future checked. I am very satisfied with the advice here.

Not to pry but lotta details missing from anyone being able to offer suggestions that might be applicable to your situation.

Dunno what industry you're in, dunno how old you are, dunno how many and how old kids are, if any, yada yada yada.

Dunno if you wanna step out of your current job or were asked to leave; don't take this the wrong way because if you work on The Street, good people are sent packing all the time and it makes a difference if the firm decided it didn't want to cover the product you might cover versus having a skill that's deemed not useful anymore, say for example a floor trader. Some of my old friends that were floor traders never got back into financial services once the nature & technology of certain types of trading changed and obsoleted their jobs.

Why the long setup? Because me and Mrs. fuzz lived through it and did not house husband or house wife anything - we found a way to make it work splitting the chores between the two of us. There is no secret - sheer force of will and commitment to each other, in both for each person and each's career, made it work for us in some way. The difficulty will vary based on the age your kids are but this too shall pass and the time goes quicker than you think.

I don't have facts, so what I'm saying may be patently absurd to you. But what I am suggesting is that house husband need not be an inevitable consequence and foregone conclusion. Good luck.

[peanutgallery]

Most house husbands I've encountered wind up divorced
Good luck with whatever direction you go

[joosttx]

Why? ... nevermind
Most house husbands I've encountered wind up divorced
Good luck with whatever direction you go

[fuzzalow]

That's fair. I am 45, two kids (young school age). Travel is a main issue 151K miles last year and it is not letting up. Wife is traveling more and working more. She an attorney. I run a business unit for a chemical company. I get the sheer force thing. We do it. We work very hard. We have or financial future checked. I am very satisfied with the advice here.

Forgive me. I am guilty of being less aware of professions and careers that involve inordinate time in the air because that is part of the job and not as incidental to the job.

If you have your financial bases covered, i.e. college expenses, then you have the luxury of flexibility now and the compounding in time to grow your portfolio. You sound like you're prepared to find a new way forwards and more power to you in adapting & optimizing that plan, which you know you're gonna hafta do anyways. Carry on, you'll do fine.

[Mzilliox]

this thread got amazing. I told you people get weird about hearing this... happily married house husband for 10 years. its not going to stop any time soon.

Old school? What use is old school in a world ruled by the I Phone? Theres nothing alpha or beta about realism. Grow up.

Just keep talking man, thats the best advice i can give. its hard for both sides, so be honest about it.

[Zoodles]

This is by far my longest post...

I left a successful career to raise my 5, 10 yr old and support my wife, whose career took off. She wasn't cut out for a typical sahm role and I can adapt so it made sense at the time. Our kids are the better for it and I found it a dream experience, however, I would not do it again or suggest it to anyone, male or female (I have a really hard time committing to saying this). I'll explain a couple challenges and feel free to pm for more.

Times have changed, it's no longer rare for a guy to take on the caregiver role but finding your place in the world can be tough. Old friends and colleagues have a limited scope of conversation and interest you are no longer included in and, in addition to self-identified alpha males and guys in the role because of unemployment (who are the first to tell you about their sacrifice) there are also the women who either treat you as a threat or candy. I'm not sure which were the worst but all make forging and navigating relationships, including your marriage, a challenge. Nothing that can't be overcome but the role is isolating to begin with so it's something to be aware of.

I had a good career before I opted out. 8 yrs, 2 degrees, various pt corporate roles, consulting and volunteering later and I am fighting stereotypes and misplaced perceptions for roles well below my career/education level. When I travel back in time I'll tell myself to do it by moving to contract work and only take a few months off at a time, or stepping down into some type of lower stress but still significant role.

The worst news...You will not get to ride your bike as much as you do now. If your job is child-rearing and you treat it as a job it requires a lot of hours and this job doesn't wait until after your ride. You can stretch and do core at the park though and that helps.

CYA financially, make sure it is written that assets/future earnings are shared equally.

I don't mean to sound harsh but sometimes things need a dose of reality. If you go in eyes wide open it's a great experience and a unique way to develop as a human being, however, it's a role in which success is achieved when you make yourself redundant so you need to plan for the phase of your life after this.

Final note re beta male nonsense... I change diapers, wipe tears/noses, practice plays, make costumes and all sorts of 'mothery' stuff. I am also well educated, build stuff, fix anything, still earn higher than average, and can out-ride most people not getting paid to ride a bike. In my world providing for my family meant doing what had to be done and not some 'old school' platitude.


Joostx and anyone else considering, good luck - life is short!

[dbnm]

This is by far one of the weirdest threads I have seen here.

Angst, anger, jealousy. Whatever.

Raising my kids while being a somewhat stay at home Dad has been the best thing for my family.

Do what makes you happy.

Time off of a 9-5 gig will allow lots of things. Enjoy it. The kids certainly will and your wife will appreciate you taking care of things at home.

Suggesting that this will lead to a divorce is just plain stupid.

[Schmed]

Suggesting that this will lead to a divorce is just plain stupid.

I know a guy who faithfully fulfilled the role of house husband and got a divorce. Wife found the powerful co-worker man more attractive than her house-husband. It happens. You'd be a fool not to think about that possibility.

[geeter]

I agree. It's kept me following it.

I think it sounds like you have been run pretty ragged from your travel schedule. Nothing can ever replace the time away from your family. Your kids are only small once. As everyone with longer teeth on here attests to, it goes fast.

I personally have cut back on money making opportunities (given up a lot of coaching) to spend more time with my family. I value that over just about everything. To have the opportunity to be that much more involved in the life of your kids is an amazing opportunity.


Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

[kookmyers]

It would be interesting to see how this thread would have gone in a female dominated forum...

I used the speech to text function and got the following.....:eek:


It would be interesting to see how this thread would have gone and a female dominated for him…

[Kirk007]

A few observations as some of the comments here have me thinking further.

1. If Joostx had announced that hey, we're financially good so at 45 I'm retiring; wife will still work as she loves her job, would he be getting these handwringing warnings of marital infidelity, bro isolation etc, etc?

2. When I was in my early 40s I walked away from a top tier law firm to run a small nonprofit and took an 80% salary cut. Not the same as stepping completely away from a salary and child rearing, clearly, but many of my peers were like, ***?? So little money, off the fast track, what the hell is wrong with you??? Best move of my life. But with that peer group I did experience the social cut-off/isolation a prior poster mentioned -- which when you think of it seems pretty normal right - your social interaction with work peers is tied to work, not to the rest of life. And they are still putting in 60 and 70 hour weeks and generally miserable, which makes for little time for socialization or fun companions. So you may need to work harder, be the initiator most of the time or make a new peer group or be comfortable without one. Isn't this what anyone who retires faces?

3. New peer group jealousy or infatuation: Can't think of many tribes where this doesn't happen. Good thing to be aware of though at any life change. I hear the real action is if you end up being an healthy attractive single guy in a 55+ community....

4. Getting back to work. Choices do have consequences. It would be very hard for me, after having been out of it for 16 years, to get back into private practice. Luckily for me I would never want to and don't have to. But I will say this, talent and experience are hard to replicate and there's always a place for it.

5. A feeling of being "kept." This year, through luck and fate and life, my wife inherited an interest in a commercial real estate partnership that takes her from essentially a zero dollar contributor to the main breadwinner. I could retire tomorrow and we would be fine. But I will confess that the thought of it; of not being the financial engine; of having to essentially spend "my wifes" income to get something nonessential, say a new bike for instance does make me uncomfortable. And I like my job and the challenges presented so I'll stick at it for awhile as we transition to a new financial reality. But I fully expect we will transition to a new normal and it will be fine. Because we are partners and a team. And I bet that Joostx transition will be easier, because they are working as a team for the good of their children, and nothing is more important or real than that.

[weaponsgrade]

I've been the lead parent for the past few years. It wasn't something we planned, but I had to take a pause in my career to deal with some health issues. Meanwhile, my wife kept climbing the corporate ladder. After I got my health sorted out, the kids arrived and it was difficult to get back into the game. I don't think I wanted to work at that level anymore either. I have my own small set of clients and I work from home. The work pays well, but is highly volatile (at least for my particular situation) so I rarely turn anything down. Even though my wife is upper management now, I'd rather not try San Francisco/kids/single income. In between the drop-offs, and pickups, I work for the almighty dollar, shop for groceries, cook, and occasionally sneak in a ride. I think I underestimated what it meant to transition to not just the daily tasks of drop-off/pickup/dinner, but to also be the one handling all the bills, summer camp registrations, taxes, vacation planning, household maintenance, etc. I've been trapped in this strange logic/catch-22 where there's a feeling of resentment if I go out for a ride on a weekday b/c the other is working, and a feeling of resentment if I go out on a weekend b/c the other has spent the entire week working.

I actually enjoy cooking (but not everyday). I just got a pressure cooker and it is awesome. I stick around for the morning pledges, see the kids off, go on the field trips, and pick them up early on nice days to go to the playground before dinner. But I also wonder if I'll ever be able to get back into an office environment.

[54ny77]

This.

I know a couple of guys who fell into this role, unwillingly, via unemployment.

You need to have something more interesting to talk about than how awesome baking soda cleans up curry stains on the counter.

Good luck on your journey. Great thread, lots of really insightful replies (other than that stupid one about the definition of "old school").

:banana:

About all I can add is to do something to keep yourself marketable. You never know when you might need to go out and kill dinner again.

[batman1425]

I know a guy who faithfully fulfilled the role of house husband and got a divorce. Wife found the powerful co-worker man more attractive than her house-husband. It happens. You'd be a fool not to think about that possibility.

To make decisions rooted in insecurity and lack of trust suggests other pre-existing problems with the marriage that will eventually lead to a negative outcome once a trigger is applied. A mutually supportive marriage with clear and open communication should have no problem balancing the decision for either parent to fill a "non-traditional" gender role, which includes the choice to spend more time at home for the benefit of the family.

I don't think the OP is suggesting staying home because of a lack of interest in working and a desire kick back and relax, but rather that he could be more valuable to his family by spending more time home. Family value is measured by a lot more more than just money and if one partner is successful in meeting the financial needs/goals, having one parent stay home is a responsible decision IMO - regardless of gender.

To the comments floating around about "old school" and gender roles... Part of being implementing gender equality is not only supporting equal opportunity, compensation, and respect for women in traditionally male dominated environments, but also men being confident in filling traditionally female roles. Suggesting that "real men" can't fill that role is part of the problem.

[sparky33]

Life is pretty sweet when one parent can focus on work and the other can focus on family. Divide and conquer how you will. The gender stuff is antiquated nonsense.

misc thoughts...
Going from a super-job to home is a big adjustment.

Maybe you close the door on your career as you step out. Does it even matter? These days talented people move in and out of the job market with a certain amount of creativity and strategic compromise.

How stoked will your little kids be having dad around all the time...sounds like the good kind of trouble.

You probably won't lay on your deathbed wishing you had worked more and spent less time with your family.

Bakfiets with lary fork.

[geeter]

Life is pretty sweet when one parent can focus on work and the other can focus on family. Divide and conquer how you will. The gender stuff is antiquated nonsense.

misc thoughts...
Going from a super-job to home is a big adjustment.

Maybe you close the door on your career as you step out. Does it even matter? These days talented people move in and out of the job market with a certain amount of creativity and strategic compromise.

How stoked will your little kids be having dad around all the time...sounds like the good kind of trouble.

You probably won't lay on your deathbed wishing you had worked more and spent less time with your family.

Bakfiets with lary fork.
+1 on the bakfiets. Best cycling investment I've ever made.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

[Mzilliox]

To make decisions rooted in insecurity and lack of trust suggests other pre-existing problems with the marriage that will eventually lead to a negative outcome once a trigger is applied. A mutually supportive marriage with clear and open communication should have no problem balancing the decision for either parent to fill a "non-traditional" gender role, which includes the choice to spend more time at home for the benefit of the family.

I don't think the OP is suggesting staying home because of a lack of interest in working and a desire kick back and relax, but rather that he could be more valuable to his family by spending more time home. Family value is measured by a lot more more than just money and if one partner is successful in meeting the financial needs/goals, having one parent stay home is a responsible decision IMO - regardless of gender.

To the comments floating around about "old school" and gender roles... Part of being implementing gender equality is not only supporting equal opportunity, compensation, and respect for women in traditionally male dominated environments, but also men being confident in filling traditionally female roles. Suggesting that "real men" can't fill that role is part of the problem.

this is well said and real. people don't get divorced due to this, people get divorced for other reasons.

[William]

Some thoughtful as well as some very “interesting” comments so far.

As far as the working partner (man or woman) leaving because they might be attracted to a “more powerful” person in the work place (that little sliver of the world) over their partner taking care of the home-front…good riddance. It means they were never fully invested in the relationship in the first place.



Mrs William and I decided early on that we would juggle our work schedules so that we wouldn’t have to put our children into daycare. It wasn’t always easy, there were times where she was laid off and I supported the family, times where I was out of work due to lay-offs and she supported the family. The main point for us was always taking care of the family no matter what. Her career path has blossomed and my side business has grown to the point that when the last company I was working for closed their door we made the decision that I would stay home and take care of our children as well as continue my own business that generally runs outside of the regular 9-5 work schedule.

We were both children of parents who divorced early on, he mom did well on the alimony, my mother had to work and built a solid career in banking. Her mother had other issues, and mine was never home because she had to work her ass off to get to where she did as a woman in that era. We decided that we were going to be there for our kids and not let other people raise them if we could help it. Ymmv but we think we made the right choice and wouldn’t change it at all.

Oh, and if you think I’m not an “Alpha” guy because I take care of our kids during the day…Let some one lock us in a room together and we’ll see who comes out.:D









William

[roguedog]

joostx, i think it's awesome.

as everyone says, if it's what is right for you and the fam that is what matters. there will be difficulties in the transition but i suppose many transitions are.

i don't have anything to share specifically to your case but i can say that i took almost a year off from working after getting laid off and it was wonderful looking back. the first 3-6 months are where my mind transitioned from work and my identity with work and success started to separate. i started to remember who i was and what i liked and what was important. i think it's an important journey for anyone. i don't have anything to add outside of that because those were my shoes/path and you have your own.

i dig all the support from the forum members re: gender equality. nice to just speak the mantra but cool that some of you live it too.

[fuzzalow]

I don't mean to overemphasize by reiterating myself into the thread but I'm doing it because I think my point of view is in the minority here and I feel it is fair to keep it as a viable option:
Do not step out of your career, especially if you are advancing and are not stalled. Money isn't everything but it counts for a lot.
There are ways around managing through almost anything
Things change fast around kids and the demands, on time & effort change accordingly. So having too much time to devote leaves one open to the creation of ceaseless "busy-time interactions" with kids as a show of interest to them and the desire to not be marginalized as a parent. This creates its own mileau in the following point below:
Don't fall into the trap of time-sink around kids that is fostered and encouraged by endless BS extracurricular activities in everything but academic excellence. This is a K-12 ruse - your kids will learn far more about character and teamwork from your own family actions than they will ever learn under the BS rubric of team sports & activities in school. Some in favor of this kind environment might accuse that I never attended a game, recital or play and I can assure you that is not true - I attended, just not every one. And my interaction with my kids is much more subtle and nuanced which even they understood from a very young age. Kids are as smart as you raise them to be.
Quality time is a very directed and focused condition under all ranges of interactions. Quality time, like "teaching moments", ceases to be quality time when it is identified as such both by a parent as a form of self elevation and by the child as a form of extra attention to what was just said/done. Parenting is NOT a aggregation of "quality time" and "teaching moments", it is the culmination of every second of every day in how you yourself as a parent acted and responded to all of life of which your kids were a part of and a student and a witness to.

My gut on the OP situation would be to hire full time au pair, no matter what the cost, to allow either career not to be sidetracked and the manage around the difficulties however transient and temporary during this phase of the kids growing up. Even if you paid the au pair the equivalent of one salary, there is not a career exit required of husband or wife and the career and earnings trajectory is unaborted.

All of this, and of others responses in this thread, is simply a view into the approach, objectives and priorities each of us has undertaken as parents. Toughest job in the world where there is no guidebook and where the stakes couldn't be higher or more dear. Good luck to every parent out there no matter what you decide.

[tuscanyswe]

I know a guy who faithfully fulfilled the role of house husband and got a divorce. Wife found the powerful co-worker man more attractive than her house-husband. It happens. You'd be a fool not to think about that possibility.


Are you saying she said i dont like you anymore since you became a house-dad and i found someone else with more authority and i found that irresistible (or something along those lines)?

If not, its not like there are not plenty of divorces where the wife finds someone else at work or elsewhere where the guy had a great job or a not so great job or not a job at all etc. like all the rest of the divorces i mean..

[paredown]

Been there, got the T-shirt. I quit my job to follow my wife around the world as her career took off. I agree with Hilltopper and Mzilliox that it is a different choice than others would make, and there are some downsides.

Interestingly to me, the cluster of women with whom my wife worked and who were moving up the food chain rapidly had stay at home husbands--not all of us had kids, but we moved internationally with our wives and kept the home fires burning. There was and is a lot to take care of.

And as corporate America used to ignore the wives when they moved husbands, the new normal is that they will ignore the husbands if they want the wife for a promotion. I had no support in re-establishing myself going or coming. I did have time though to go back and finish my dissertation, travel more and see and experience a lot of different stuff in addition to household duties.

I also agree that if you can keep your hand it with something professional, that is good. By the time we got back stateside and settled in, I was no longer employable in my field (a combination of age and non-current IT skills), so there's that.

And you will find that when the kids are grown, you will feel like the wives of old did, when they had to go back out looking for work, and had to cope with rusty skills, resume gaps, and a lack of sympathy/understanding for the choices they made to raise their family. In that, nothing has changed except for the gender of the care-giver.

But raising great kids--I still think that is one of the highest and best uses of anyone's time and effort, and I think the rewards will outweigh the slight negatives. Nobody dies wishing they had worked longer hours, missed more family events or spent more nights in crappy hotel rooms before client meetings.

We had a party for my MIL's birthday this past weekend, and they hired a jazz guitarist to accompany various people singing. The innocent question--'Have you always been a professional musician?' sparked a great story about how he quit his day job as a corporate lawyer to stay home and look after the kids. With the savings on daycare and commuting expenses, his income from lessons and gigging, they felt like they had made almost no sacrifice in standard of living and got a whole lot more quality of life--and dad was much happier!

[Mzilliox]

yes, Once you break free of the ladder climbing, its real hard to keep climbing it, you have to start back at the bottom. I have no modern computer skills. Im good with computers, but stuff like twitter, instagram and all the social media BS is beyond me. Going back to work would involve learning entirely new skill sets or becoming a carpenter. I prefer being a part time fishing guide and coffee roaster and cooking for my wife.

The thing is, im fine with it. I think our society is strange when it comes to priorities. money is great, don;t get me wrong, but if you can mange on one income, why not?

[daker13]

As far as the working partner (man or woman) leaving because they might be attracted to a “more powerful” person in the work place (that little sliver of the world) over their partner taking care of the home-front…good riddance. It means they were never fully invested in the relationship in the first place.


:hello:

I agree 1000%. I have a good friend who is going through a tough time, finishing a dissertation, etc., and his wife just ran out of patience. Divorce with a young child, and in NYC, so there are MAJOR logistical problems with regard to schools, apartment, etc. A lot of blame to go around, but the vow is, in sickness and in health. People go through stuff, and couples are supposed to pull it together. What my friend's kid is going through is just heart-breaking, but my friend is a good dad.

I'm a firm believer in, if your partner betrays your trust, for ANY reason, the best thing to do is walk away, especially for some juvenile bs like, Gary from the office is a real 'alpha dog'.

[paredown]

This is by far my longest post...

I left a successful career to raise my 5, 10 yr old and support my wife, whose career took off. She wasn't cut out for a typical sahm role and I can adapt so it made sense at the time. Our kids are the better for it and I found it a dream experience, however, I would not do it again or suggest it to anyone, male or female (I have a really hard time committing to saying this). I'll explain a couple challenges and feel free to pm for more.<snip>

Joostx and anyone else considering, good luck - life is short!

Yeah--it is hard not to have the occasional 'what if' thoughts--and I go crazy trying to imagine the foregone alternatives.

My biggest regret is not recognizing the ageism and narrow-mindedness that would kick in on the employer side when trying to get re-established--and the need to maintain some professional presence if possible. I really started to understand why certain people sought out alternatives like buying a franchise, starting their own business etc just because of the difficulties getting a break as a non-traditional potential hire.

[redir]

I love reading stories where people drop out of the corporate world and make themselves happier. I say if you can afford it then go for it and good luck.

[Schmed]

Are you saying she said i dont like you anymore since you became a house-dad and i found someone else with more authority and i found that irresistible (or something along those lines)?

If not, its not like there are not plenty of divorces where the wife finds someone else at work or elsewhere where the guy had a great job or a not so great job or not a job at all etc. like all the rest of the divorces i mean..

It seems to me that she lost a bit of respect for her husband. Working around providers, decision makers, breadwinners, then coming home to her husband that was spending time at the gym and cleaning the house, etc. They had a nanny and I really don't know what he did to keep himself busy (besides riding / going to the gym).

I think it's a real possibility. Maybe some resentment, as well. Putting in 12 hour days while hubby is out hiking and biking? There are some women that want to be taken care of and have the comfort of their husband being the provider. The "old school" definition of the "man of the house". I suspect that some don't think they feel that way, but might feel that way when put into the role of being the breadwinner....

[19wisconsin64]

Today was our first day with my wife going back to her "day job" after a long maternity leave. She cried, it was a sad goodbye at the door today.

It's our first child, and I really have no idea what to do with the kid, who is 3 1/2 months old. No idea whatsoever, but I'll work it out.

Luckily I can work from home as a real estate investor, hiring more people to do the work I used to do is fine. My priorities are changed, and suddenly this 'lil pooper is the boss of all decisions large and small.

So today, I had no idea what to do, and have not read a single one of the many books I've been given on parenting. Soooooo, while mommy was away daddy did cycling things....brought out his trainer, watched the last 40 kilometers (again) of the Tour of Flanders with the kid. I explained to the kid how it's a great time in America for cycling because we just one our first race, but explained to her we would have to wait for more video coverage. Then, we did 5 mini-sets of tummy-time spin class. Waaaayyyy better job than pretty much anything else. Getting my kid smiling is something I can't put a price-tag on. Luckily I'm self employed and can work from home, and my heart goes out to parents who want to stay more at home and have flexible work schedules but can't.

Great advice and responses on this thread. Thanks to the original poster, and to all of the advice given, I'll keep on reading as the responses come in.

[fuzzalow]

I love reading stories where people drop out of the corporate world and make themselves happier. I say if you can afford it then go for it and good luck.

I'd temper the enthusiasm knowing that there is inherent bias underlying the storyteller's testimonial and, most importantly, there is little value, other than happy tales in recounted stories, in anecdotal evidence.

I don't say this trying to be gloom 'n' doom or a killjoy. I say this because I take the decision point the OP places himself in very seriously, as would you if you were in his shoes, and I don't think it adds to the conversation to blow smoke up...well, you know.

I don't think there is keeping a hand in corporate life after you have left. When you gone, you be gone and you stay gone (who said that? :D) Hiring an au pair still keeps options open and all will be the wiser is the au pair and the agency that cashes the check.

[daker13]

Real men provide for their family... it's ingrained from grandfathers that drug Japanese snipers out of trees and killed them with their bare hands while bored on Bougainville ...hence "old school"

By the way, with respect to your suggestion that the 'real men' who provide for their families are the equivalent of the WWII soldiers that killed their enemies with their bare hands...

(which is a pretty pathetic metaphor in and of itself: so, going to an office in 2017 and reviewing compliance memoranda is the equivalent of hand to hand combat in the jungle? I think not...)

...but anyway...

My wife works for the VA, and she tells me that it is very, very common for a young man to go to Iraq or Afghanistan and come home to find that his wife has worked her way up in a pretty good career in his absence. The veteran either can't find a good job, or needs to take some time to get his head together, so he ends up taking care of the kids at home. The tongue in cheek military term for this is "working as a domestic engineer" (not being a "house husband").

And if you think I'm making this up, ask a vet. Then make sure and tell him what a pussy he is for staying home with his kids.

[sonicCows]

Hiring an au pair still keeps options open and all will be the wiser is the au pair and the agency that cashes the check.

I want to be sure to state that an au pair as an extra set of hands is helpful but an au pair to substitute absent parents might not work. All the au pairs in the world will do no good for a child who simply wants the presence and attention of parents, it will only build resentment. Complement, not supplement, should be the way to go

[AngryScientist]

i got nothing to add, other than the fact that my dad was home throughout my whole childhood. he had me later in life and was retired, but in great shape when i was growing up.

we didnt have a lot of money at all when i was a kid, but i've got the best memories of hanging out with my dad. camping, fishing, hunting, being goofy, just hanging out.

all these years later, my dad's 92 (and still in great health!) this year, and he's my best friend. i love the old man, and i'm glad he was around to help me grow up.

[.RJ]

Do not step out of your career, especially if you are advancing and are not stalled. Money isn't everything but it counts for a lot.

Career aint everything, either.

[Mzilliox]

repeat

[45K10]

Hey Joosttx
I am doing the same thing. This is my last week of work before my new job starts at home. My wife and I have a two year old and have been discussing me staying at home for about a year now

After paying over $30K last year in daycare costs and being in one of the higher tax brackets we decided go ahead with the plan. I am really looking forward to it.

Oh, and I have a confirmed kill of a sniper so I think I'll be good to go with the "old school" crowd.

[Dead Man]

I'd love to ve a house husband. Actually, I just want to be a trophy husband.. no real expectations, just look good, be entertaining at business parties, and be ready for dirty sex whenever she wants. Otherwise spend my days racing/training, hanging with the bros

Yea buddy

[carpediemracing]

I was a house dad for almost 5 years, ending a few months ago for real. I did a 6 month work stint in 2015 but it was a dead end and I wasn't keen on it.

Positives: totally bonded with my son, to the point that I feel bad when he runs past the Missus to jump in my arms whenever we both pick him up, or when he gets hurt, or whenever he's rushing towards us in general.

I returned to work a few months ago, working pretty long hours (8-8 three days a week, 8-6 one day, and usually 8-8 one more day). Since my son goes to sleep around 8 I don't see him in the evening if I work until 8. It actually became a bit of a problem because other than 5:30-7 in the morning, I really didn't see him for, at times, 4 days in a row.

As far as work goes... I wanted a career change before he was born. I explored some stuff but have now found a job that satisfies me at some personal level, challenges me enough intellectually, allows me to provide a decent portion of the household income (about 50%, maybe more), and has substantial growth potential without substantially changing hours.

Negatives: I tend to be less productive when I have more time. I got less done when I was a stay at home dad. More blog time for sure, or posting on forums, but not really any big projects at home. Okay, promoting races single handedly but I did that for 15 years before.

When I was a stay at home dad I'd be on baby alert all night, which meant, for many months, waking up a few times each night. I'd sleep when the baby slept, etc. It was tough in one sense but I loved it. I still am in that mode, I generally am the one to wake up if he's sick. The other night I was up at 10 pm, 11 pm, about midnight, about 1, and about 3 am. Then I got up and went to work.

Another negative, sort of. I lost interest in promoting bike races. I even lost a large part of my passion for racing bikes (and the main reason I train is to race, unlike a long time ago when I trained for the meditative experience of riding). Bike racing is way, way, way, way, way down my list of priorities. When I don't bother replacing the bar tape for over two years on my one bike that I used during that time... you know it's pretty bad. I'd much rather spend time with my son than train or work on my bike.

Money. Make sure you don't underestimate your budgetary needs. We did, and it got to be a bit tight for a while. We're not super materialistic - the most expensive stuff I buy are car repairs and some used race wheels I bought about 4 years ago. Heck, I didn't replace my bar tape for a few years. Day care and health insurance took up most of our income; our mortgage is about equal to each of those. Nowadays our health insurance is 10% of what it used to be, so that helps a lot. Basically 1/3 of our fixed expenses just disappeared, poof, because I work for a big company that offers incredible benefits.

[fuzzalow]

I want to be sure to state that an au pair as an extra set of hands is helpful but an au pair to substitute absent parents might not work. All the au pairs in the world will do no good for a child who simply wants the presence and attention of parents, it will only build resentment. Complement, not supplement, should be the way to go

C'mon, nobody is suggesting that incompetence on the part of any parent is a way to make it work. Who said anything about bringing in an au pair to fix parental neglect? This comment is outta left field.

Career aint everything, either.

Career is a means to an end. It affords options and opportunities that may not be available unless there is a semblance of means to make such a choice possible. If you've got a better way to get all that's good on a wish and a say-so, then I'd like to hear how that's done. ;)

I posted earlier that money isn't everything but that it counts for alot. And as long as kids know that it doesn't count for more than they do, I'd guess any kid would be OK with that line of adult thinking too; the the extent that even such a conversation is even relevant and registers to a kid.

In fact, I'd go further and say that parents should be very careful in how they teach and approach money with their kids and at what age. There is nothing more repugnant than to hear one kid putting down another kid over some kinda socio-economic disparagement and perception of wealth, or lack thereof. An 8-year old hasn't the foggiest notion about money but who do you think they learned that stupidity from? Shameful.

[Zoodles]

^^I think what's shameful is that modern society places so little value not only on the skills and experience of those who opt out, but also on the value of having some combination of intense parental involvement in the pre-school years.

There are always exceptions but having a parent at home benefits the community and society as a whole in numerous nuanced ways. From helping others raise their kids through supporting school events or caring for kids in a pinch, the daily interactions with seniors, along with various unpaid positions. Unfortunately none of this experience that allows people to engage in society and develop individually is valued in a corporate world that nonetheless preaches 'people not skills'. As a result, in addition to the isolation we have now we also have organizations clamoring to fill a perceived skills gap.

It may be anecdotal but I see it in my own kids and their peers; however it is accomplished active, involved, strong parenting breeds resilient kids who make good choices. I don't mean being a helicopter parent but being able to invest the time and resources into teaching life lessons/values/activity/nutrition pays off. That's tough to do when both parents are working 40+ hrs*, unfortunately, parents are unable or unwilling to check the ambitions and/or organizations fail to see the value in encouraging work life-balance in which a compromise can be found to benefit all.

I agree with Fuzz, the discussion needs a dose of reality and a career shouldn't be tossed lightly but why that is deserves questioning.



* "How much ambition can a marriage take' (https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/12/conservation-of-ambition/507980/)

[jlwdm]

This. He's more professionally accomplished and better educated than 90+% of anyone in here. Clearly, his wife is too...

...

Really? How did you come up with this conclusion?

Jeff

[Louis]

It's interesting - on the Interwebs you never know what's going to end up being a contentious topic.

[guido]

We told you not to let the photo book stuff go to your head...

Best of luck with it! What a fantastic opportunity to bond with your family. Enjoy!

[.RJ]

Career is a means to an end. It affords options and opportunities that may not be available unless there is a semblance of means to make such a choice possible. If you've got a better way to get all that's good on a wish and a say-so, then I'd like to hear how that's done. ;)

An American investment banker was at the pier of a small coastal Mexican village when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat were several large yellowfin tuna. The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his fish and asked how long it took to catch them.

The Mexican replied, “only a little while. The American then asked why didn’t he stay out longer and catch more fish? The Mexican said he had enough to support his family’s immediate needs. The American then asked, “but what do you do with the rest of your time?”

The Mexican fisherman said, “I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestas with my wife, Maria, stroll into the village each evening where I sip wine, and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life.” The American scoffed, “I am a Harvard MBA and could help you. You should spend more time fishing and with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats, eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats. Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you would sell directly to the processor, eventually opening your own cannery. You would control the product, processing, and distribution. You would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, then LA and eventually New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise.”

The Mexican fisherman asked, “But, how long will this all take?”

To which the American replied, “15 – 20 years.”

“But what then?” Asked the Mexican.

The American laughed and said, “That’s the best part. When the time is right you would announce an IPO and sell your company stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions!”

“Millions – then what?”

The American said, “Then you would retire. Move to a small coastal fishing village where you would sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, take siestas with your wife, stroll to the village in the evenings where you could sip wine and play your guitar with your amigos.”

My point being with this anecdote is, that, if your goal is to live on a house boat in mexico, then, you dont need a career. You dont need much. This is probably a backlash against the area where I grew up (DC) which is very, very, easy to get sucked into the rip tide of the rat race - always working more, doing more, never stopping, more and more and more. How do I know that you live or came from the east coast? The first question you'll ask someone is "what do you do?" at a social gathering because that's how people create identity for themselves in this part of the world. Pro tip: what you do to make money is not who you are.

I'm hoping to retire in less than 10 years. Retirement doesnt have to mean not working, but rather providing choice in how and when I work.

[Schmed]

"you would make millions!”

“Millions – then what?”

"With your millions, you could pay for your kids' college and maybe, if you are lucky, pay for your health care insurance."

;)

[54ny77]

Excellent post. Have a couple of friends in the substance abuse/intervention/recovery field. Common theme among families of upper middle and very significant affluence is that so many kids are not much more than household accessories. Lotta consequences with that. That's entirely on the parents as to how f'd up the kids are. And man, the drugs of choice these days....it's mind boggling how crazy things are.

I sound like an old man....

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/0/08/Jasper_Beardly.png/revision/latest?cb=20130707032356


It may be anecdotal but I see it in my own kids and their peers; however it is accomplished active, involved, strong parenting breeds resilient kids who make good choices. I don't mean being a helicopter parent but being able to invest the time and resources into teaching life lessons/values/activity/nutrition pays off. That's tough to do when both parents are working 40+ hrs*, unfortunately, parents are unable or unwilling to check the ambitions and/or organizations fail to see the value in encouraging work life-balance in which a compromise can be found to benefit all.

[fuzzalow]

It is not lost on me that the OP may well have heard enough in this thread to get what he wanted from it. But I've continued posting as a point of general discussion on the subject at large and because it seems I'm the only guy saying, in essence, "look before you leap because in mid-fall there's no deciding that maybe shouldn't have jumped".

I am very satisfied with the advice here.

Yes, and best of luck. I'm not trying to convince or dissuade you, I am merely making points and a line of reasoning in thinking through what you are contemplating and batting around the issues that come to my mind as issues and considerations.

My point being with this anecdote is, that, if your goal is to live on a house boat in mexico, then, you dont need a career. You dont need much. This is probably a backlash against the area where I grew up (DC) which is very, very, easy to get sucked into the rip tide of the rat race - always working more, doing more, never stopping, more and more and more. How do I know that you live or came from the east coast? The first question you'll ask someone is "what do you do?" at a social gathering because that's how people create identity for themselves in this part of the world. Pro tip: what you do to make money is not who you are.

I'm hoping to retire in less than 10 years. Retirement doesnt have to mean not working, but rather providing choice in how and when I work.

I get this. But the OP has kids so maybe this line of thinking and goal setting may not be in their best interests in trying to provide for them the best way that one is capable of doing. Raising and educating kids takes money - and no parent wants to deny their kids any benefit or opportunity that might serve to help their kids find and make a life for themselves better than the one had by their parents.

Even if I could live as in the parable you gave I wouldn't. Not because I want more but because I can do more which means I must try as it becomes something I owe myself, to do my best, and is something I owe to the society I live in, which is to do some good. I was not blessed like a Rockefeller but they had a family saying that is honorable and true: opportunity brings with it obligation. I'm OK with that and am grateful my family is blessed in a modest way that allows me/us also to give back.

Playwright David Mamet said the best advice his father ever gave him was never ask somebody what they do for a living because it incorrectly shades everything you think about somebody after they tell you. I can assure you, my identity is not predicated on something as simplistic and as vulgar as money. It is bad form to simplify opposing views to make your own argument more valid or substantive. Pro tip: You don't know me and people are more complex than you seem to want to recognize.

So here we are. Now that we're acquainted, we move forward, have some laughs, maybe do some good. Whaddaya say?

[.RJ]

Even if I could live as in the parable you gave I wouldn't. Not because I want more but because I can do more which means I must try as it becomes something I owe myself, to do my best, and is something I owe to the society I live in, which is to do some good.

Yep, if you have a job/career that gives back in some way, then, yes its a waste to leave that behind. Or maybe leaving the corporate rat race allows room to do something that has benefit, even if its in the local community.

So here we are. Now that we're acquainted, we move forward, have some laughs, maybe do some good. Whaddaya say?

:beer:

[Kirk007]

Even if I could live as in the parable you gave I wouldn't. Not because I want more but because I can do more which means I must try as it becomes something I owe myself, to do my best, and is something I owe to the society I live in, which is to do some good.

And here things get really tricky and interesting - what is good? To the investment banker in the parable, maximizing capitalism is the good. To the fisherman - balance, family, health, happiness is the good. To me, quitting private practice and working for an ngo that is engaged in the ever increasing quixotic quest to save nature is the good that I chose. But lately I've been asking myself - when does the obligation to society to do good end or slacken? It can be as much of a rat race as the rat race. After awhile, pushing that rock up the hill is exhausting. When can you look in the mirror and say, I've done enough good, I've done my share? Ever? And then there's Lao Tzu - do nothing, no striving, just be.

[fuzzalow]

And here things get really tricky and interesting - what is good? To the investment banker in the parable, maximizing capitalism is the good. To the fisherman - balance, family, health, happiness is the good. To me, quitting private practice and working for an ngo that is engaged in the ever increasing quixotic quest to save nature is the good that I chose. But lately I've been asking myself - when does the obligation to society to do good end or slacken? It can be as much of a rat race as the rat race. After awhile, pushing that rock up the hill is exhausting. When can you look in the mirror and say, I've done enough good, I've done my share? Ever? And then there's Lao Tzu - do nothing, no striving, just be.

Your view is shaded from being on the inside, which is neither to agree or disagree on my part. It is what it is.

I do my volunteering with all the research and sophistication I know how to do in my profession. I am a policy wonk and can get into the weeds on things and on organizations I choose to contribute into. So I know of what you allude to.

But the short answer for me is: I just do my part. I do it in however little or bigger way I either can, or want, to do. I know of the flaws but I don't want the role to fix them just as I not let perfect be the enemy of good in what I do.

To say investment bankers seek to maximize capitalism within society writ large, rather than bounded within investment or capital vehicles, is furtherance of an amoral stereotype. The job is just a job.

[gemship]

this thread got amazing. I told you people get weird about hearing this... happily married house husband for 10 years. its not going to stop any time soon.

Old school? What use is old school in a world ruled by the I Phone? Theres nothing alpha or beta about realism. Grow up.

Just keep talking man, thats the best advice i can give. its hard for both sides, so be honest about it.

The irony of this thread is that recent stop work across the nation event for women that are underpaid in the workplace. I'm c'mon what demographic of working women did that represent? So now they have a thing across the nation for day with participating retailers to give 20% discounts only to women to reflect the 20% less pay...whatever. Obviously some women are more successful than others.

[gemship]

I know a guy who faithfully fulfilled the role of house husband and got a divorce. Wife found the powerful co-worker man more attractive than her house-husband. It happens. You'd be a fool not to think about that possibility.

I bet, it all started with a little innocent flirting at the bubbler. LOL

[d_douglas]

I've been there. My wife moved to Switzerland for an amazing, well-paid job opportunity. I finished graduate school in Canada and tagged along for the ride. I worked as a contractor for about 6 years there, on and off. I didn't enjoy the instability of my job situation, and I know my wife didn't either, only because she wanted me to transition from school to work in a positive way.

I went through stints of staying at home and never really enjoyed the time as I should have. My wife made plenty of money for us both to live comfortably, so I should have just relaxed, had fun and ridden my bike way more than I did. I personally couldn't care less whether I matched the earnings and the prestige of my wife's career - she's her own person and uses her intellect in her own way - she's really good at what she does, so I encourage her to excel at it.

We had our kids there and once she had to go back to work (5 month maternity leave - pretty cruel from a Canadian perspective!) I looked after our daughter. It was a very tough and very rewarding job. There were moments where I hated it and moments where it was the best job I had ever done (and it was a relentless job). I was only home with her for about 8months until I went back to work and she went to a daycare, but I think it has made a strong impact on my relationship with her.

My kids are 5 + 7 years old now and if I could figure out a way to spend more time with them, I would. Our finances are stable and modest now. We need to both work full time to lead a comfortable lifestyle (that doesn't include home ownership, but does include a holiday or two each year to spend more time adventuring with them). They are at such a fun age and so full of life, that it bums me out when I pick them up at after school care rather than Daddy-care.


Houston, how is it going in your new role?

[Kirk007]

Your view is shaded from being on the inside, which is neither to agree or disagree on my part. It is what it is.

I do my volunteering with all the research and sophistication I know how to do in my profession. I am a policy wonk and can get into the weeds on things and on organizations I choose to contribute into. So I know of what you allude to.

But the short answer for me is: I just do my part. I do it in however little or bigger way I either can, or want, to do. I know of the flaws but I don't want the role to fix them just as I not let perfect be the enemy of good in what I do.

To say investment bankers seek to maximize capitalism within society writ large, rather than bounded within investment or capital vehicles, is furtherance of an amoral stereotype. The job is just a job.

My view is indeed shaded as I am wrestling with the question, can I stop or slow down? Have I done enough? Given the state of the world and what is at stake (from my perspective) one answer, and the one arrived at by many in my profession is that you can never stop as the need is too great. I'm not liking that answer right now.....

My comment/question was not intended to make any observations on jobs or callings or what one might think is the "good" that they work for, just that what is 'the good' can be defined a myriad number of ways by different folks, and then to ask the question, when, if ever, is that obligation met (the answer to which I suspect is whenever the individual is satisfied with their effort).

So to tie this to Joostx original post, I might presume that he and his family have determined that the highest "good" for him is to be around more, maximizing his impact and involvement with his family. This good might have a defined endpoint - when the kids are raised for instance - or it might not. Peanut Gallery on the other hand might say that the only good for a real man is to be the earner/provider forever? until the asset bank is full?

It's relatively easy to conclude that a job stops when the need is met, but what about that obligation to society? Society will continue to have unmet needs it seems as long as humankind exists, so when does one call it good?

[yakstone]

Interesting topic as I too am in a similar position.
When is enough really enough? Contributing to society at large and giving back is an obligation that we all have. At what level, is a question that each of us has to answer for themselves.
For me, while my corporate roll was fun and rewarding I didn't mind the long days and personal time sacrifice. Once it got to the point that time away from home and added work stress negatively impacted other segments of my life, a decision to step away needed to be made.
Now I work from home, shorter hours, and spend more time with my wife and my dog. My kids are grown, moved out and have families and lives of their own.
I guess my position is, you need to enjoy how you are contributing, especially as you get older. Engage in what matters most to you.

[msl819]

Interesting topic as I too am in a similar position.
When is enough really enough? Contributing to society at large and giving back is an obligation that we all have. At what level, is a question that each of us has to answer for themselves.
For me, while my corporate roll was fun and rewarding I didn't mind the long days and personal time sacrifice. Once it got to the point that time away from home and added work stress negatively impacted other segments of my life, a decision to step away needed to be made.
Now I work from home, shorter hours, and spend more time with my wife and my dog. My kids are grown, moved out and have families and lives of their own.
I guess my position is, you need to enjoy how you are contributing, especially as you get older. Engage in what matters most to you.

What is interesting to me in the question you pose, is that given the difference in peoples views, position, and personal/practical choices, this is a constant battle that can never be exhausted - speaking of ones personal responsibility to give back. What I mean by that is say one person feels that their life's work is to engage in environmental issues and concerns whereas another individual feels that their life's work is to engage in industry to move humanity forward in whatever way. However, let's just say that this particular industry has an environmental impact opposite of the preference of person #1 making both peoples work (in their mind their contribution to society) largely at odds with one another and the work impossibly hard and never done. There are many impasses like these when you really think about life, work, commerce, etc.

To the OP original post. I am in favor of anything that gets parents engaging more with their kid and taking the primary role of raising, leading, maturing, and launching kids whatever shape it takes and less outsourcing those responsibilities. There are more than a few of the impasses I am speaking about earlier that in my opinion would greatly benefit from adults focusing more on what is best for those behind them (especially your own kids) than whatever endeavor is in front. Sacrifice, in the favor of the kids and spouse, seems to be a normal part of the parenting process in the 8 plus years I am been at and the 13 years I have been at marriage, and not likely to stop anytime soon. Funny thing about life as I see it is that often times the hard road and the correct road are often the same - yet we are constantly pulled toward ease, comfort, and what's best for us (in our own mind).

[joosttx]

Houston, how is it going in your new role?

Pretty good considering.... my wife has not left me for a more powerful man who she works with. And the only person who has called me a beta male was Mr Peanut, and that was indirectly.

Lots of good stuff here...

[Zoodles]

I must try as it becomes something I owe myself, to do my best, and is something I owe to the society I live in, which is to do some good. I was not blessed like a Rockefeller but they had a family saying that is honorable and true: opportunity brings with it obligation

This is something I struggle with daily but haven't been able to put into words as such, thanks.

[beeatnik]

good luck and congrats, Houston! none of the 5 house husbands I know from the Mean Streets of South Pas are financially set (which is truly chingon).

[nrs5000]

Good luck Houston, sounds like a fun and challenging adventure. I know a few dads who have done this and it has been a rewarding experience for them.

[rwsaunders]

beta male...from the Urban dictionary.

An unremarkable, careful man who avoids risk and confrontation. Beta males lack the physical presence, charisma and confidence of the Alpha male.

"Pete knew he was losing the girl he'd just met at the bar to the guy who bought her a drink, but he was too much of a beta male to do anything about it."

Nah...this ain't Houston. Carry on.

[.RJ]

beta male...from the Urban dictionary.

An unremarkable, careful man who avoids risk and confrontation. Beta males lack the physical presence, charisma and confidence of the Alpha male.

"Pete knew he was losing the girl he'd just met at the bar to the guy who bought her a drink, but he was too much of a beta male to do anything about it."

Nah...this ain't Houston. Carry on.

So, beta male isnt a frat guy meathead, got it.

[joosttx]

Good luck Houston, sounds like a fun and challenging adventure. I know a few dads who have done this and it has been a rewarding experience for them.

Thanks man!

good luck and congrats, Houston! none of the 5 house husbands I know from the Mean Streets of South Pas are financially set (which is truly chingon).

We are going to be in Huntington Beach in late June on a vaca. Let me know if you want to bring the little girl of some kid time pool fun.

So, beta male isnt a frat guy meathead, got it.

On a funny side note. The Beta's did offer me a bid in college. I turned them down.

[azrider]

On a funny side note. The Beta's did offer me a bid in college. I turned them down.

HA...those darn Betas....

You seem like a good dude and you got a sense of humor and very real sense of self, I think you'll come out of it just fine.

Not to "I" / "Me" this thing but we've got a 6 month old and a 2.5 year old and while we're both working currently, we're in talks to determine if now is the time to go to one income or wait a few more years while kids get into grade school.......but if it made financial sense for her to work and me stay home I'd probably be all for it. :hello:

Best of luck in your journey

[peanutgallery]

NPR is king, no?

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/08/384695833/what-happens-when-wives-earn-more-than-husbands

[sonicCows]

If you're concerned about the divorce rate for beta men, do consider the divorce rate for our country's selfless patriotic warfighting old school alpha males, the enlisted soldier
http://www.rand.org/news/press/2013/09/03.html

[joosttx]

NPR is king, no?

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/08/384695833/what-happens-when-wives-earn-more-than-husbands

I honestly think I am ok on this one.

[ripvanrando]

I could not imagine myself being a stay at home dad. My wife is way better with kids and household stuff. I'm better at earning money, but that is how I was raised and therefore, how I think. I'm fine being traditional in my ways. I am also fine with husbands raising the kids if they are good at it. Good on them. I couldn't do it nor would I want to. Yes, I am all grown up.

[fuzzalow]

I wanted to finish my thought in our sidebar because I respect what you do and the choice you made.

My comment/question was not intended to make any observations on jobs or callings or what one might think is the "good" that they work for, just that what is 'the good' can be defined a myriad number of ways by different folks, and then to ask the question, when, if ever, is that obligation met (the answer to which I suspect is whenever the individual is satisfied with their effort).

I dunno, some conditions are adversarial but exist because there is an advantage benefiting a injurious behaviour, like the cost advantage in burning dirty fuel or pollution as a byproduct of manufacturing. These kind of victories can be won, laws passed to protect things that are not the domain of some special interest to destroy.

Other things, like hunger, homelessness are human conditions that will always exist and, like Sisyphus, those that choose to help will do the work knowing of what it entails and of its permanence. Gotta know what you're up against.

If it is a job, the obligation never ends as I'd think it part of your professional duty & responsibility that exists while you collect renumeration for your work.

For us that volunteer, the work ends when we can no longer donate the time as we were never under any obligation, other than self imposed. We just did our part.

BTW & FWIW, I didn't give anything back, society or community wise, until middle-age in life. Until then I was solely focused on my own career and my own family. I am not a saint and nobody expects anybody to give at the expense of themselves. Take care of what is important first. But when you are ready, you'll know it.

That's charity & volunteer stuff. On the civic society side of things, I have never missed a presidential election vote and most all congressional and local legislative votes. Lotta voting cycles for congress and local elections so I hadda of missed one or two somewhere along the way.

It's relatively easy to conclude that a job stops when the need is met, but what about that obligation to society? Society will continue to have unmet needs it seems as long as humankind exists, so when does one call it good?

One never calls it good. The best we can hope for is to keep trying, run our leg of the race, if you will. And pass the baton to someone else who wants to do the same. Then we go back down the line so we can take another baton from another colleague yet again.

NPR is king, no?

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/08/384695833/what-happens-when-wives-earn-more-than-husbands

If you're concerned about the divorce rate for beta men, do consider the divorce rate for our country's selfless patriotic warfighting old school alpha males, the enlisted soldier
http://www.rand.org/news/press/2013/09/03.html

There's not disputing facts, like rate of divorce numbers. But in all the complexities of life and who & what people are will make it impossible to speak of the motivations. Hell if I know what drove some couple to divorce.

In fairness, it is also true that some people aren't all that complicated and it is easy read what they want and how they think they can get it. Or who they think they can get it from, which lasts until somebody else comes along. This condition is mitigated by hanging around with higher quality people, if possible. I agree with Warren Buffet who has said that the single most important decision anyone can make is in their choice of spouse. Get that right and all things are possible from the strength of two as one.

[mbrtool]

Joostx... best of luck to you and your family on your decision. Personally, I think it's the right one.

Ray

[mg2ride]

I'm going to say it and it won't be popular and apparently not PC in today's day and age.....Beta Male

Dudes earn, they are not very nurturing. If you spend time at home as a job result that's one thing...a concious decision is another. Good luck getting another job in ten years that's an equivalent. You're done. Consulting is an option and might mitigate the damage

If I sound harsh it's a cause I'm old school and would never rely on my significant other to support my family so I could ride more and keep my car cleaner

This may not be to popular either but you sound like a guy that has been striving to be an Alpha Male but always falls short.

Being Alpha aint about earning and if you think it is, you will never be.

[Schmed]

No need to attack each other's alpha/beta status, right guys? We're all just talking here.

Isn't it fair/possible/likely that we are all different? And women are different as well? Some women/wives want to work and be the bread winner and love that their husbands are at home doing domestic things.

Some women are traditional and prefer that the man is the bread winner.

I think that some women might find themselves in the work force, earning a living, and starting out thinking that it's great, then later realize that they actually don't like the role, and that's something for the OP to think about.

Celebrate the diversity of people. ;)

[kingpin75s]

This thread certainly proved to be an interesting read.

All I will say is good for any man who is open to assume a non-traditional role because that is the right thing for their family and their situation.

I would have no issue being a house husband despite the fact that I ended up in a very traditional situation as sole breadwinner w/SAHM and all that.

I admittedly dream the occasional dream of morning coffee with my retired father and a daily trip on the cargo bike to the farmers market. I cook, clean up well and do not define myself by what I do in any way so I would welcome that experience if it were available to me.

For now, I will live vicariously through the fine folks here that for whatever reasons or whatever stage in life, allows them to take a nice ride on any day while I grind away.

Good for anyone who finds their balance in life by any means necessary.

[joosttx]

I think that some women might find themselves in the work force, earning a living, and starting out thinking that it's great, then later realize that they actually don't like the role, and that's something for the OP to think about.


I dont think gender has anything to do with this situation.

[joosttx]

Today was my last day in the US labor force for the foreseeable future. There was a nice reception and I was given some silly but thoughtful gifts.

I have been offered two consulting gigs once word got out that I was leaving but I think I will take it easy for a month and get me feet on the ground with this new role.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2928/33999968971_a41a4a149b_z.jpg

[redir]

Looks like you got your hands full :D

[beeatnik]

joosttx, i like your enlightened Danish Modern style.

[AngryScientist]

congratulations houston.

enjoy the family time. :beer:

[72gmc]

Go, Houston, go.

I enjoy what I do for a living, but I'd still love to have the option of being at home with the kids.

I'd want my wife to be there too.

Then I'd drive her crazy and she'd tell me to go for a ride.

[45K10]

Congrats!, I am on week two of being a "House Husband". So far our two year old is wearing me out but It is waaaaaay better than my old job.

[paredown]

Today was my last day in the US labor force for the foreseeable future. There was a nice reception and I was given some silly but thoughtful gifts.

I have been offered two consulting gigs once word got out that I was leaving but I think I will take it easy for a month and get me feet on the ground with this new role.


Cute kids!

Best of luck in your new adventure.:beer:

[nrs5000]

Have fun Houston!

[zetroc]

Ignore the alpha/beta stuff - that's for dudes with fragile egos. Congratulations! Looking forward to seeing more and more ride photos.

[Schmed]

You got this... don't let them rugrats see your fear! :D

http://www.liketotally80s.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/mr-mom-chainsaw.jpg