Find me a good place to live for cycling

[.RJ]

Background: grew up in the DC area & currently live in the VA suburbs. Things are pretty good, but looking for a change of scenery soon.

Needs: good area for cycling (mtb/gravel riding and season of CX racing a plus - DC area has spoiled me on those things), availability of cleared jobs for my wife (DoD/Intelligence program/projecdt management), IT or software industry jobs for myself, fewer assholes than the east coast rat race.

Wants: winters not any worse than DC (preferably warmer climate), same or preferably lower cost of living in an area that you'd want to live in that's close to jobs, being able to live in an urban/walkable/bike friendly place, smaller community even if its in a large city/sprawl.

Places on my radar are Charlottesville VA, Charlotte NC, Denver and somewhere in SoCal - I realize thats impossibly vague given the sprawl, but either in OC on the coast or maybe closer to the mountains near Pasadena.

Go.

[Mzilliox]

well as far as socal, id say skip it since you mention you wanted to avoid the assholes in the east coast rat race. different rat race, but same amount of assholes. Denver is a cool place with cool folks, but the city itself leaves something to be desired. luckily the surrounding area is pretty rad.

good luck in whatever you decide!

[.RJ]

well as far as socal, id say skip it since you mention you wanted to avoid the assholes in the east coast rat race. different rat race, but same amount of assholes

I always felt that the left coast was far more laid back, especially around working culture.

Maybe the masters dopers cyclists make up for it on weekends?

[fuzzalow]

...fewer assholes than the east coast rat race.

"Assholes" is a relative term and also very dependent on your own professional standards and how that meshes, or not, with the culture in the places of your employment.

I am chiming in because it occurred to me that I often defend NYC which some view as very unpleasant to live in and cut-throat to work in. But it is all relative and anyplace worth living in, no matter where it is, with niceties and opportunities, will never come easily and will always extract a price. As such, I think that the first step always lies with a critical review of yourself and not a false hope of greener pastures somehow free from the ugly downsides of modern life.

I am not trying to dissuade you in finding a better situation but for a request as far ranging and as wide open as yours given here, there are hundreds, if not thousands of variables. How could anyone help, other than in the most general of ideas. What can I tell ya, life isn't a bowl of cherries but I'd also encourage you that you can find your way if you are honest with yourself, take things one step at a time and have/make a plan to get where you want to be.

Best of luck.

[texbike]

I'm not sure how this stacks up on the DoD/intelligence requirement, but how about the Seattle area?

Along the same lines (not sure about the proliferation of DoD/intelligence jobs), how about Reno? Close to the mountains, close to great skiing, great riding right out of the door, no state income tax, lower cost of living, etc.

Perhaps Nashville or Chattanooga?

Oh, and Charlotte seems like a great option as well!

Texbike

[BobO]

Background: grew up in the DC area & currently live in the VA suburbs. Things are pretty good, but looking for a change of scenery soon.

Needs: good area for cycling (mtb/gravel riding and season of CX racing a plus - DC area has spoiled me on those things), availability of cleared jobs for my wife (DoD/Intelligence program/projecdt management), IT or software industry jobs for myself, fewer assholes than the east coast rat race.

Wants: winters not any worse than DC (preferably warmer climate), same or preferably lower cost of living in an area that you'd want to live in that's close to jobs, being able to live in an urban/walkable/bike friendly place, smaller community even if its in a large city/sprawl.

Places on my radar are Charlottesville VA, Charlotte NC, Denver and somewhere in SoCal - I realize thats impossibly vague given the sprawl, but either in OC on the coast or maybe closer to the mountains near Pasadena.

Go.

Tucson checks all of those boxes, even the walkable lifestyle depending on where in town you live. :beer:

Though admittedly,... it does get a bit warm in the summer. :D

[FlashUNC]

Not Charlotte.

[SoCalSteve]

well as far as socal, id say skip it since you mention you wanted to avoid the assholes in the east coast rat race. different rat race, but same amount of assholes. Denver is a cool place with cool folks, but the city itself leaves something to be desired. luckily the surrounding area is pretty rad.

good luck in whatever you decide!

Wow, thanks for stereotyping!!!

I assume you have met every person who lives in socal so you can make this well informed decision.

[eBAUMANN]

there are "assholes" everywhere. this is america.

that said, ive heard good/surprising things about chatanooga as well.

[54ny77]

life's what you make it.

that said, i vote somewhere in tuscany, italy.

:hello:

[blakcloud]

I would suggest Huntsville, Alabama. Yes, I stereotyped it before I got there and boy did I change my mind. Small city but plenty of good cycling. Lots of hills to train, mountain biking and cyclocross. You never get the snow that you did in your neck of the woods. You can ride all year around with just a little discomfort.

I have been in around Fairfax Virginia at least a dozen times and Huntsville reminds of very much of Fairfax.

Housing is still affordable and available. Homes that would be about a $800,000 dollars in Toronto, sell for about $300,000 in Huntsville and surrounding area. As for jobs, there is the Redstone Arsenal and of course NASA which might be good for your wife.

The downside of Huntsville is flying in and out of the airport. It has the most expensive tickets to fly in the country, so many fly to Nashville and take the shuttle into Huntsville (this is what I do). They also don't sell Powerball which means driving to Tennessee. Tornadoes can also be troublesome. I had the rare privilege of seeing my first Tornado as I was driving from Nashville to Huntsville and it was pretty scary.

Check it out online, it might be a contender.

[hoonjr]

I'm in Charlottesville myself. I'm on the fence about this area in terms of riding. There is plenty of it and there is a large community, however most of the rural roads scare the crap out of me. I'm used to having a lined shoulder where most drivers give us clearance. As for the jobs, there is NGIC and UVA is a huge tech employer but after that it's a little thin on opportunities. Feel free to PM me.

[.RJ]

"Assholes" is a relative term and also very dependent on your own professional standards and how that meshes, or not, with the culture in the places of your employment.

I am chiming in because it occurred to me that I often defend NYC which some view as very unpleasant to live in and cut-throat to work in. But it is all relative and anyplace worth living in, no matter where it is, with niceties and opportunities, will never come easily and will always extract a price. As such, I think that the first step always lies with a critical review of yourself and not a false hope of greener pastures somehow free from the ugly downsides of modern life.


Yeah, I think that's a fair point. I suppose anyone that doesnt agree with my (or your?) world view is an asshole :banana:

I'm categorizing the east coast job first/job focused, rat race, long commute, climb on top of each other to get up the ladder types as the assholes in question. Of course they probably call me the asshole that leaves "early" (after working 9 hours!) to ride his bike around in funny clothes. I find a lot of people here get too wrapped up in their work/life/rat race and end up miserable people that forget to have fun. I've been able to insulate myself from that quite a bit with short commutes, bike riding, and great friends, but where I live is starting to get more crowded and after spending most of my 37 years here I'd like a change of scenery and maybe a slower pace of life or being around people that value their recreation & leisure more than their jobs.

keep firing, assholes.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/67/67dd1e07544573ccf129d1277703ec808dd419c39b1f89b798 9293e17fe6d283.jpg

[exapkib]

While neither city exactly lines up with your point about winter, if you are willing to consider Denver you should also give the Wasatch Front (Salt Lake City and environs to the north and south) in Utah a look.

Unexpectedly large number of cleared jobs available (NSA, FBI, military). Lots happening in the tech sector. Great mountain bike and road riding.

We moved here from NoVA, and it is much more laid back. It's been a great move for us.

[.RJ]

While neither city exactly lines up with your point about winter, if you are willing to consider Denver you should also give the Wasatch Front (Salt Lake City and environs to the north and south) in Utah a look.


Interesting idea. Can you live/work in the city with things to do on evening/weekends (i.e. restaurants, outdoor concerts, coffee shop, parks, etc)?

[blantonator]

Interesting idea. Can you live/work in the city with things to do on evening/weekends (i.e. restaurants, outdoor concerts, coffee shop, parks, etc)?

I might go to Seattle, we can go together. I really liked SLC and almost moved there like 8 years ago, the city itself leaves a little to be desired culturally, but the real outdoors is way closer than it is in Denver.

[CDollarsign]

Cincinnati is pretty lame, but has good cycling. You'd also be next to some cool areas that are into cycling like Louisville. It is definitely way cheaper than VA. GE does lots of DoD and IT stuff. Lots of other fortune 500 companies here too.

It's getting better everyday (still miss St. Louis...).

[Shoeman]

there are "assholes" everywhere. this is america.

that said, ive heard good/surprising things about chatanooga as well.

You got that right about the "assholes" being everywhere!
I've driven through all of Tennessee several times, lots of nice places. Nashville & Memphis seem rather nice!

[CDM]

there are "assholes" everywhere. this is america.

that said, ive heard good/surprising things about chatanooga as well.

Can you recommend a place outside of America where there are no ass.....les?

[exapkib]

Interesting idea. Can you live/work in the city with things to do on evening/weekends (i.e. restaurants, outdoor concerts, coffee shop, parks, etc)?

Absolutely--if you live on the East/North side of the city you can be 'in' the city (it's not a huge city, but plenty going on in terms of concerts, restaurants, nightlife, etc.) and still be within easy striking distance of the trails and hills (mountains).

The suburbs south of SLC actually have some of the nicest trails in the valley (Corner Canyon (http://www.cornercanyontrails.com/)). If you can find recordings of the Tour of Utah, they showcase some of the nice road rides/climbs in the area.

[MattTuck]

There is still snow on the ground in NH, so I recommend looking elsewhere.

:crap:

[velofinds]

I don't know about your mid-Atlantic choices, but Denver sounds like it meets the vast majority of your presented criteria. The cycling in Colorado is top notch.

Needs: good area for cycling (mtb/gravel riding and season of CX racing a plus

Check.

availability of cleared jobs for my wife (DoD/Intelligence program/projecdt management), IT or software industry jobs for myself

Check.

fewer assholes than the east coast rat race.

Questionable. Denver attracts transplants from both coasts as well as from Texas.

Wants: winters not any worse than DC (preferably warmer climate)

It's colder, to be sure, but subjectively doesn't feel worse due to the relative lack of humidity. Probably more days of sunshine in a year. In my experience, snow tends to melt fairly quickly; accumulation doesn't linger, and there isn't a ton of salt dumped on the road. These things impact one's perception of winter.

same or preferably lower cost of living in an area that you'd want to live in that's close to jobs, being able to live in an urban/walkable/bike friendly place, smaller community even if its in a large city/sprawl.

Check (especially if you decide to live downtown, or in nearby Boulder).

[Clean39T]

I don't know about your mid-Atlantic choices, but Denver sounds like it meets the vast majority of your presented criteria. The cycling in Colorado is top notch.







Check.







Check.







Questionable. Denver attracts transplants from both coasts as well as from Texas.







It's colder, to be sure, but subjectively doesn't feel worse due to the relative lack of humidity. Probably more days of sunshine in a year. In my experience, snow tends to melt fairly quickly; accumulation doesn't linger, and there isn't a ton of salt dumped on the road. These things impact one's perception of winter.







Check (especially if you decide to live downtown, or in nearby Boulder).


+1 to all that, which is why I'm trying to get my wife and me back to the Front Range...if NorCal doesn't snag us first...still up in the air there, but if the job doesn't come through, it's all eyes on Coloradeee


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[belopsky]

Cincinnati is pretty lame, but has good cycling. You'd also be next to some cool areas that are into cycling like Louisville. It is definitely way cheaper than VA. GE does lots of DoD and IT stuff. Lots of other fortune 500 companies here too.

It's getting better everyday (still miss St. Louis...).

Really? Cincinnati is much better now than when I lived there (Tornado of 99)

[adampaiva]

Absolutely--if you live on the East/North side of the city you can be 'in' the city (it's not a huge city, but plenty going on in terms of concerts, restaurants, nightlife, etc.) and still be within easy striking distance of the trails and hills (mountains).

The suburbs south of SLC actually have some of the nicest trails in the valley (Corner Canyon (http://www.cornercanyontrails.com/)). If you can find recordings of the Tour of Utah, they showcase some of the nice road rides/climbs in the area.

I was in SLC for the weekend visiting friends(I live in NYC). On Sunday, we woke up late at my friends place in the Avenues, I rode his mountain bike 10 minutes and was at a trailhead and went on some pretty darn good mtb-ing. He had his kid on the bike on the kid seat so went and did errands. Met up post-mtb and went to his gym for a swim and hot tub soak. Went home and ate lunch. Drove to another friend's house and borrowed some equipment then drove up the canyon and went xc ski-ing for a couple hours in an amazingly beautiful setting. We had planned on dropping a line and doing a little fly fishing on the way back but skipped that this time because I was flying out that night. Then had a good dinner downtown before heading to the airport.

Really made me question my current existence. The abundance and convenience of outdoors activities at your fingertips is unreal. I gotta say too that the city-life seems to have improved markedly since my first visit about 10 years ago.

[mbrtool]

Chicago....I know...but I gotta stick up for it.

Ray

[Bradford]

Check out Fort Collins.

I need to be near Denver for my job, but I think I would have preferred a smaller place like Fort Collins. It is a bit smaller, has plenty out doorsey things to do, and the cycling is nice. Denver is getting expense too, so you might find Fort Collins better on the budget.

[.RJ]

Check out Fort Collins.

I need to be near Denver for my job, but I think I would have preferred a smaller place like Fort Collins. It is a bit smaller, has plenty out doorsey things to do, and the cycling is nice. Denver is getting expense too, so you might find Fort Collins better on the budget.

Hmmm. I have a friend that moved out to Denver a few years back and loves it.

[bob heinatz]

It is a catch 22. I live in a rural area where the biking is incredible but the job prospects are very limited. Hard to have both. There are a holes everywhere but people in the rural area seem less stressed out.

[joosttx]

I always felt that the left coast was far more laid back, especially around working culture.

Maybe the masters dopers cyclists make up for it on weekends?

I would suggest an attitude adjustment before searching out a new place to live. You seem very negative.

[.RJ]

I would suggest an attitude adjustment before searching out a new place to live. You seem very negative.

Product of my environment, most likely. The customer site where I work these days is a terrible place to spend my time. But the commute is short and the money is good.

Anyone here live or lived in Bend, Or?

[Mzilliox]

Wow, thanks for stereotyping!!!

I assume you have met every person who lives in socal so you can make this well informed decision.

I didn't mean it as a blanket statement, thats where im from too. There are asshats in every place, thats my point. there is also quite a lot of people in so cal. But when someone says they are trying to get away from the rat race... i feel like adding maybe so cal is not the place to go to avoid a rat race. Maybe chill some? Isn't that what Cali is about? here's a beer:beer: sheesh. you'd think i trumped in your cheerios

[.RJ]

i feel like adding maybe so cal is not the place to go to avoid a rat race. Maybe chill some?

Can you explain further? I'm drawn to the idea of great weather year round, and I know east-coast transplants that have moved out there have had a bit of a culture shock at work, in a good way - they had to dial down the intensity a bit.

[huck*this]

Product of my environment?

Anyone here live or lived in Bend, Or?

I was going to recommend Bend although jobs don't seem to pay as well. I'm also in the IT field.

[Kirk007]

Having lived in Seattle for most of the past 3 decades I wouldn't recommend it. If you live in the City proper, the riding is far from optimal unless you put your bike on a car and drive, and even then the outlying areas are getting more and more crowded. I guess for some the idea of driving to ride is not much of an issue but for me, it drives me crazy (in part because driving around here is a very frustrating and time consuming endeavor).

The weather sucks 9 months out of the year (but as things are going, that statement is true about a lot of places). March is shaping up to set yet another new record for monthly rainfall, as did February and the most recent climate science indicates that this more intense wet weather pattern may be the new normal not just la nina/el nino variability.

It is incredibly expensive - reaching San Fran levels; higher than DC/NVa. What was a $500,000 house 5 years ago is now around $1M and $400K gets you a tear down cottage. Rents are correspondingly high - $1800-3000 for a two bedroom place.

You can live outside the City proper and have slightly lower housing costs and more open space but if your job depends on getting into the city then you are dealing with horrendous traffic and its getting worse. Seattle area is growing by leaps and bounds in terms of population but planning and the ability to deal with growth in terms of infrastructure lags sorely behind.

I wouldn't move here; indeed we are looking to leave the City to a more rural environ as soon as I am less tied to a downtown job.

[joosttx]

Product of my environment, most likely. The customer site where I work these days is a terrible place to spend my time. But the commute is short and the money is good.

Anyone here live or lived in Bend, Or?

“When you turn the corner
And you run into yourself
Then you know that you have turned
All the corners that are left.”
―Langston Hughes

I have lived all over this country and part of the world. What I noticed is the negatives are always about the same. ANd that you have the most control over those.

[Mzilliox]

Can you explain further? I'm drawn to the idea of great weather year round, and I know east-coast transplants that have moved out there have had a bit of a culture shock at work, in a good way - they had to dial down the intensity a bit.

again, relativity, you are probably right as far as west coast being more laid back than east coast. but I can't help but feel that "keeping up with the Joneses" attitude when i go back to visit. Its a very image conscious area, not my cup of tea at all, if you want laid back west coast, there is no city better than Portland. and the bike culture puts almost any to shame.

but yeah, if you like really hot weather, its there in socal. so are the people, so is the money, so is the cost of living, pollution, and so is the competition.

[velofinds]

If I were starting from a blank slate, I might look into San Diego. Tacos, beach, canyon -- sounds pretty good to me if you don't mind having the same season year-round.

[.RJ]

I have lived all over this country and part of the world. What I noticed is the negatives are always about the same. ANd that you have the most control over those.

Yep, I 100% agree. And if I go seeking out assholes no matter where I am I'll find them.

Apologize if I come across negative, but, I do think its time to move somewhere a little more laid back atmosphere in general.

[Ralph]

Just to show how people have different ingrained biases about certain areas of USA......I am retired, and can live anywhere in USA I wish.....and have visited about every area in USA in most seasons.....and I wouldn't consider living anywhere else (as a home base) than NE Central Florida. Around here....gently rolling hills, lots of long bike trails for commuting or getting you out into rural areas. Some 15% hills just west of me out in the country. Year around cycling....little hot in summer months, but I get out early, get done by 10:30 or so....then hit pool. Organized rides about every day. Road, Crit, Cross racing in season. Big national teams train here in winter. Job prospects probably not as good as some colder places. I love Colorado also....especially Ft Collins......but man....I hear about how good the weather is....and don't believe a word (except mid summer to early fall)...I've been there in summer, fall, winter and spring (mud). Winters are still cold, and last a long time. Good cycling friend of mine just moved to here from Denver...retired lawyer. You couldn't pry him out of here.

NO state income tax, and I bet almost everyone out there thinks where I live is like Disney....or their last beach trip. It isn't. No place is perfect all the time. (BTW....I could live on San Juan Islands off Seattle....been there also)

Point is.....go for the job prospects, rewarding career and prosperous family is more important than cycling. Lots of good cycling places with good career prospects... if me.....that's how I see it.

[john903]

joosttx well said I like your style. To the OP maybe it is just time for a good old fashioned road trip. Seek out an area that has been suggested and stay for a week or so. What might happen is you come home refreshed realizing you have everything you need right where you are and you just needed a well deserved vacation. By the way I like North Carolina up in the mountains. If you like the Northwest it is great, but you have to also like our grey and rainy days too. I am starting to wonder if it will ever stop raining and the sun come back out and I have lived in Washington for 20 years.
Have a great day.

[Tickdoc]

New Mexico, Colorado, Utah, Texas....All would have appeal to me. I like the laid back New Mexico style, lots of hills, decent weather. Southern Colorado is nice...Pueblo, Canon City, Duraqngo....so Many fun places to live. I'm not much on big cities....unless I live in the small cities around the big cities, and I prefer mountains to beaches....but that is me....languishing here in the flatlands.

[.RJ]

Seek out an area that has been suggested and stay for a week or so. What might happen is you come home refreshed realizing you have everything you need right where you are and you just needed a well deserved vacation.

Yep, we do this fairly frequently, and try to seek out new places to go every year - I've lived & traveled around the country enough to generate some biases on where I'd like to go, but its interesting to throw the discussion out to a group and see what else they come back with. Perhaps there is something I'd missed that we ought to go check out, and sometimes things arent as rosy as they seem for living there vs visiting for a week. Cycling & outdoors is important, but so are job prospects and plenty of areas that mix both of them well.

[Ken Robb]

I would suggest Huntsville, Alabama. Yes, I stereotyped it before I got there and boy did I change my mind. Small city but plenty of good cycling. Lots of hills to train, mountain biking and cyclocross. You never get the snow that you did in your neck of the woods. You can ride all year around with just a little discomfort.

I have been in around Fairfax Virginia at least a dozen times and Huntsville reminds of very much of Fairfax.

Housing is still affordable and available. Homes that would be about a $800,000 dollars in Toronto, sell for about $300,000 in Huntsville and surrounding area. As for jobs, there is the Redstone Arsenal and of course NASA which might be good for your wife.

The downside of Huntsville is flying in and out of the airport. It has the most expensive tickets to fly in the country, so many fly to Nashville and take the shuttle into Huntsville (this is what I do). They also don't sell Powerball which means driving to Tennessee. Tornadoes can also be troublesome. I had the rare privilege of seeing my first Tornado as I was driving from Nashville to Huntsville and it was pretty scary.

Check it out online, it might be a contender.

I was going to suggest Huntsville too. I had so much fun while I was stationed there for 26 months that I seriously considered staying after my discharge from The Army. I think it only snows every other year and you already know what Summers are like. Heck, they may be easier than D.C. due to slightly lower humidity.
Riding in SoCal has great weather and pretty good off-road/gravel opportunities but there aren't very many quiet country lanes to ride. I don't think cyclo-cross events are common. We have a cross course on the UCSD campus where there used to be monthly races but I don't think there is even one anymore. OTOH, the course is about a mile from my back door and I enjoy riding it for fun.

I wonder if there would be job opportunities for you guys around Vandenberg AFB. Living in Ventura or Santa Barbara Counties might be good.

[YesNdeed]

...but that is me....languishing here in the flatlands.

Oh man, but Tulsa Tough! It's the "Best weekend of racing" agreed an anonymous New Mexico racer. Never partaken, myself. Looks fun though.

[redir]

Of the places you mentioned Denver would be the better choice. Perhaps more like Longmount or Boulder if you want the high prices.

Charlottesville is basically a suburb of DC now. You won't really see any change there. And most people head out of Charlottesville to avoid the insane traffic.

I'm a bit further down Rt 81 and it's the best cycling you could ever ask for. Tech jobs are far and few between though.

If you want to stay on the east coast then you might consider Knoxville. I'm hearing more and more good things about it.

[OtayBW]

Asheville, NC :banana:
[/]

[cnighbor1]

Northern Oregon Portland, Bend all gets you in some nice riding
Bend does have a winter
Northern CA works also
Once out of high cost area like the SF bay area works like Chico

[Clean39T]

Northern Oregon Portland, Bend all gets you in some nice riding

Bend does have a winter

Northern CA works also

Once out of high cost area like the SF bay area works like Chico


Portland is good if you want to tool around the city, or if you want to race cross, but until you get way out of the city, or drive out to the good rides and endless gravel, the roads are pretty tough for roadies - traffic, rain, no bike lanes, bad surfaces, etc. all complicate things - it's not what it was 20yrs ago when riding up in the hills close to town was rural. It all depends on what you're benchmarking to though. I've lived in Boulder, so I have pretty high standards for what a "good" cycling city is...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[velofinds]

Asheville, NC :banana:
[/]

I've heard good things, too. Suuuper small town, though -- <90k population versus, e.g., Charlotte (800k), Denver (650k), et al. Job prospects can probably be lowered accordingly.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/10/travel/what-to-do-36-hours-in-asheville-north-carolina.html

[OtayBW]

I've heard good things, too. Suuuper small town, though -- <90k population versus, e.g., Charlotte (800k), Denver (650k), et al. Job prospects can probably be lowered accordingly.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/10/10/travel/what-to-do-36-hours-in-asheville-north-carolina.html
HAR! From NY, I'd guess you'd consider Asheville as Suuuper small at 90K population. From where I've lived, I'd consider Wartrace, TN as suuper small. Guess it's just perspective. Either way, I'd go to Asheville in a minute if I could get work there. However, in my field, I have never been able to get work where I wanted to live - ever. Quality of life in Asheville, including riding, is just very good for what floats my boat.

[velofinds]

From NY, I'd guess you'd consider Asheville as Suuuper small at 90K population

Or even from the "medium-sized" aforementioned cities.

[.RJ]

Of the places you mentioned Denver would be the better choice. Perhaps more like Longmount or Boulder if you want the high prices.

Denver/Golden/Longmont was always at the top of my list. Available jobs, good riding, good racing scene at least looking at the calendars. I lived in Denver for a few months a while back, really enjoyed it.

Charlottesville is basically a suburb of DC now. You won't really see any change there. And most people head out of Charlottesville to avoid the insane traffic. I'm a bit further down Rt 81 and it's the best cycling you could ever ask for. Tech jobs are far and few between though.

Compared to what the place was 10 years ago, its definitely changed, but still feels very small town to me. It would be an easy move and keeps proximity to family (Nova & Richmond).

I love riding in shenandoah & page valley, both road & mtb, hard to beat it.

[fourflys]

well as far as socal, id say skip it since you mention you wanted to avoid the assholes in the east coast rat race. different rat race, but same amount of assholes. !

not even close when it comes to San Diego... there isn't much better than San Diego for cycling... if you can find a job that pays you enough to live in SD, you won't find a better place... (I was stationed there for 6 yrs and would love to go back!)

[merlinmurph]

Product of my environment, most likely. The customer site where I work these days is a terrible place to spend my time. But the commute is short and the money is good.

Anyone here live or lived in Bend, Or?

Haven't lived there, but stayed in the area last Sept/Oct on our trip and loved the area. We said to each other that we could move there - maybe. Not sure what the job prospects are. Real estate is nuts right now, tons of building going on, and stuff ain't cheap. Lots of Bay area money moved in making the real estate go nuts. Kind of like Bozeman in that it has been discovered and you're late to the party.

Recreation-wise, there is a ton to do. The climate is quite nice - high desert - but you'd have to check the specifics.

I'm sure someone more local could give you more info.

[.RJ]

not even close when it comes to San Diego... there isn't much better than San Diego for cycling... if you can find a job that pays you enough to live in SD, you won't find a better place... (I was stationed there for 6 yrs and would love to go back!)

I'll be out there in a few weeks for a conference.... although I've been to SD a bunch, and rented a house in Encinitas for a week to do some early season riding. Nice place to ride, although, getting out of the city was a bit of a drag.

[Louis]

Needs: good area for cycling (mtb/gravel riding and season of CX racing a plus - DC area has spoiled me on those things), availability of cleared jobs for my wife (DoD/Intelligence program/projecdt management), IT or software industry jobs for myself, fewer assholes than the east coast rat race.

How about something near Vandenberg AFB?

[paredown]

We have friends who we overlapped with while we lived in NOVA--they thought they were retiring and moved to Colorado (built the dream house near Telluride and all). Got bored, went back to work (he's in aerospace) in Arizona, then moved to Cedar Rapids.

Fly-over country--but they love the low cost of living, and it sounded like quite a bit was going on at least for him. Rockwell is one large employer.

No idea 'bout the cycling though.

I do agree about NoVA--too many entitled people. I barely rode my bike while I was there, since the drivers are speed demons and have no idea what to make of cyclists sharing the road...

[Clean39T]

Haven't lived there, but stayed in the area last Sept/Oct on our trip and loved the area. We said to each other that we could move there - maybe. Not sure what the job prospects are. Real estate is nuts right now, tons of building going on, and stuff ain't cheap. Lots of Bay area money moved in making the real estate go nuts. Kind of like Bozeman in that it has been discovered and you're late to the party.



Recreation-wise, there is a ton to do. The climate is quite nice - high desert - but you'd have to check the specifics.



I'm sure someone more local could give you more info.


There are direct flights from Bend to SFO - and that's not just for Giants fans...

It is a neat city in pockets, but pretty small, and expensive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tickdoc]

Oh man, but Tulsa Tough! It's the "Best weekend of racing" agreed an anonymous New Mexico racer. Never partaken, myself. Looks fun though.

It is a gas, and I love my hometown, but when I think of ideal places to live and ride, I think more mountains and less people.

Is it June yet?:beer:

http://cyclingillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/River-Parks-Criterium-33.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DzhMDWY7Y-Y/T9Z1drToT2I/AAAAAAAABnI/11qTKCAoAEI/s1600/kh3a1698.jpg

[fa63]

I will put in a good word for Atlanta. The mountains are an hour away, and riding around town is not too bad either once you figure out which roads to take and which to avoid.

Plenty of jobs too, and housing is still relatively affordable compared to many big cities (though that is changing pretty quickly).

[fourflys]

I'll be out there in a few weeks for a conference.... although I've been to SD a bunch, and rented a house in Encinitas for a week to do some early season riding. Nice place to ride, although, getting out of the city was a bit of a drag.


I could see that, I lived up in Poway and had no issues getting out for a nice ride with good climbing... I was about 30 min from downtown SD... was nice to commute to work a few times a week...

[azrider]

Oh man, but Tulsa Tough! It's the "Best weekend of racing" agreed an anonymous New Mexico racer. Never partaken, myself. Looks fun though.

Tulsa Tough or Gateway Cup are by far and away best weekend of racing I've ever participated in. Hands down.

I wished I had checked out Twilight Crit but never made it out that way.

[fuzzalow]

Yeah, I think that's a fair point. I suppose anyone that doesnt agree with my (or your?) world view is an asshole :banana:

I dunno what your meaning is here although can only assume the dancing banana is something said in jest. I don't think that almost anyone's disagreement with another's point of view meets the standard of that person being an asshole. C'mon, being an asshole has to be something truly earned so don't devalue the word by tossing it around haphazardly.

I'd suggest remedying your work situation first before moving cities - sometimes the fit just isn't right and that friction & negativity spills over into many different aspects of life. Good things and associated successes IMO often follow people around because of who and what they do rather than as a circumstance of where they live. Good luck.

[thunderworks]

life's what you make it.

that said, i vote somewhere in tuscany, italy.

:hello:

+1

Tuscany would be fabulous.

[Lanternrouge]

I'll be out there in a few weeks for a conference.... although I've been to SD a bunch, and rented a house in Encinitas for a week to do some early season riding. Nice place to ride, although, getting out of the city was a bit of a drag.

If you don't "need" the weather here, you can probably have a much better quality of life on other places. The problem with living here is it kind of ruins you for other places since you realize people elsewhere may be tougher because they don't have other options.

[choke]

My only advice is that once you narrow it down to a few places go and spend some time there.....not just a weekend or two. You need to really find out if it's going to work for you.

As a young man, the place (which has been mentioned in this thread more than once) that I thought would be paradise turned out to be quite the opposite for me. Uncle Sam was kind enough to station me in that area and I found that while it was nice for a short time there was no way that I could ever live there.

[bking]

I'd also suggest SLC, if big city, jobs and tall mountains are a priority.
I opened an office in SLC after reading in the WSJ sometime around '02 that it would be the fasted growing metropolitan area in the country for the next 20 years based on jobs and environment. If it's not first, it's dang close and job growth is still strong.

that said, if you're looking for a smaller town, and even more sun, St George Utah could be a consideration. I'm always amazed at how "big" that small town feels. It's only about 90 minutes to LV for full airport access, but has just about anything else a big city has to offer, yet in a very small package and located in some incredible outdoor scenery.
Just around the corner:
https://photos.smugmug.com/Tour-de-Bike/2017-January-Zions/i-29qRVK7/0/XL/IMG_0984%281%29-XL.jpg

This was in January. Nice day for a road ride.

[.RJ]

I'd suggest remedying your work situation first before moving cities - sometimes the fit just isn't right and that friction & negativity spills over into many different aspects of life. Good things and associated successes IMO often follow people around because of who and what they do rather than as a circumstance of where they live. Good luck.

I've had plenty of good jobs in the area and the guys I work for are great, but both my wife and myself grew up in the area and are looking for a change in scenery - there's lots of things I like about it that have made it a good place to live. If it doesnt work out, the worst that happens is we try somewhere else or come back to the area.

Like I said, We've got our own short list that we've discussed, but sometimes its fun to throw the idea out and see what comes back. Some interesting thoughts in the thread and some places I hadnt thought of.

[Tickdoc]

I've had plenty of good jobs in the area and the guys I work for are great, but both my wife and myself grew up in the area and are looking for a change in scenery - there's lots of things I like about it that have made it a good place to live. If it doesnt work out, the worst that happens is we try somewhere else or come back to the area.

Like I said, We've got our own short list that we've discussed, but sometimes its fun to throw the idea out and see what comes back. Some interesting thoughts in the thread and some places I hadnt thought of.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted. I love these threads because I will never move. Too much of a chore in my profession to just up and leave to start again. I get to live vicariously through those of you who do.

[.RJ]

Best of luck to you and keep us posted. I love these threads because I will never move. Too much of a chore in my profession to just up and leave to start again. I get to live vicariously through those of you who do.

Thanks. I'm afraid if we dont try it while we're young and no kids it might be much tougher later. And, if we do have kids and want to come back to be near family thats alright too. The crux of it is we're ready to sell the townhouse we live in, looked at the prices of larger places with a little bit of a yard nearby and said "****, there's gotta be somewhere else we can live".

I've spent a couple of days to a week or more in most of the places mentioned in this thread, so its interesting to think back about them.

[sailorboy]

I'm in a similar situation being active military, and living in fairfax county, due to retire soon...seems like the more I move, the harder I am to please in terms of the right balance of everything. Federal jobs aplenty here, and the kids will do great in school here, but there is just something vacant about the culture where we live. All planned communities and no feeling of history unless you go into DC, which we do often.

As for the riding, there are some nice roads around but its too busy and no shoulders to ride on. A perfectly-enjoyable ride is easily transformed by a few aggressive a-hole drivers with no warning. That's life in a lot of places tho.

We own a home in the norhtern burbs of Philly which seem to strike a nice balance for me. No you can't ride year round but most of it, and there is great history there, lots of backroads, covered bridges. If you want an excursion to Amish country it gets even better, and there are hills to be climbed over near the river and the jersey border. That's where we're headed anyhow.

[fuzzalow]

If it doesnt work out, the worst that happens is we try somewhere else or come back to the area.

Like I said, We've got our own short list that we've discussed, but sometimes its fun to throw the idea out and see what comes back. Some interesting thoughts in the thread and some places I hadnt thought of.

HaHa! Never look back, only look forwards. As long as you and your spouse are completely in agreement and are both fully committed to make it work - then indeed it will work!

I can't emphasize enough how much you will need and rely on each other's strength to make a full and complete run at making your ambitions come true. It cannot be anything other than both of your best shots. It cannot be anything less than the full use of both of your combined talents as a family team. This is your life and it is forgivable to make mistakes but it is unforgivable to embark on this and have regrets.

I hope that we can look back on this thread in the future and have you update it with the good news of how everything turned out.

[.RJ]

I'm in a similar situation being active military, and living in fairfax county, due to retire soon...seems like the more I move, the harder I am to please in terms of the right balance of everything. Federal jobs aplenty here, and the kids will do great in school here, but there is just something vacant about the culture where we live. All planned communities and no feeling of history unless you go into DC, which we do often.

As for the riding, there are some nice roads around but its too busy and no shoulders to ride on. A perfectly-enjoyable ride is easily transformed by a few aggressive a-hole drivers with no warning. That's life in a lot of places tho.


I hear you... We live and work in Reston, so keeping the commutes short and its not a bad place all things considered. The job market is good, housing market is good, weather is good 9 months out of the year. Have family nearby and in Richmond, lots of good friends close by. We get into DC probably twice a month, lots of good restaurants down the road in Herndon and things to go not far away. For cycling, CX racing is booming, we've got tues/thurs group rides, plenty of sat/sun am group rides, i'm < 10 minutes on bike to lake fairfax or great falls, loudon county is 20 miles or a short drive for some quieter roads or gravel time, real mountain bike riding (GWNF, elizabeth furnace, the shed, etc) or awesome places to get away to are 1-2 hours away. I dont find the drivers to be a problem but i've also learned where to ride and where not to ride over the years and I'm not bothered by the 1 out of 1000 that yell at me to get on the sidewalk or some such.

I'm really selling the idea of leaving the area :crap: On paper it may not make sense, but ready to try something different. One of the hard parts about finding a place to move to is really figuring out whats important out of all of the stuff I mentioned that we're used to having around. So who knows, maybe we move elsewhere and find new things that are important or we hate it and miss it and come back.

[.RJ]

I can't emphasize enough how much you will need and rely on each other's strength to make a full and complete run at making your ambitions come true. It cannot be anything other than both of your best shots. It cannot be anything less than the full use of both of your combined talents as a family team. This is your life and it is forgivable to make mistakes but it is unforgivable to embark on this and have regrets.

Definitely agree. I wont have any regrets by trying something different - we'd learn something from the experience and each other for sure even if it didnt pan out like we expected. One of the things I most worry about is being away from family & friends - I dont think we'll really understand how much we rely on our social networks until they're not there. Thanks for the thoughts.

[Andy sti]

Bend is the best but we're full. :)

[paredown]

...
We own a home in the norhtern burbs of Philly which seem to strike a nice balance for me. No you can't ride year round but most of it, and there is great history there, lots of backroads, covered bridges. If you want an excursion to Amish country it gets even better, and there are hills to be climbed over near the river and the jersey border. That's where we're headed anyhow.

We've been looking on and off in Delaware and PA border environs as well. My lovely wife still needs occasional access to NYC, and we want to be closer to her mom who is still in VA.

As far as moving--we have moved something like a dozen times since we have been married--three countries, both coasts and some places in between, and I agree, the hardest part is that you no longer have the easy contact with family and friends. For a while you live under the illusion that you are keeping up with them, but it's like the hole that you left behind naturally fills in with other aspects of their lives and other friends.

That said--to be dropped into a strange new place and have to figure everything out--that's very cool.

[YesNdeed]

It is a gas, and I love my hometown, but when I think of ideal places to live and ride, I think more mountains and less people.

Is it June yet?:beer:

http://cyclingillustrated.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/River-Parks-Criterium-33.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DzhMDWY7Y-Y/T9Z1drToT2I/AAAAAAAABnI/11qTKCAoAEI/s1600/kh3a1698.jpg

I very much prefer living out here in New Mexico and returning to my hometown in the NYC area for visits, to living there and coming here for visits. So I fully agree. I have lived on some beautiful coastline (New England, South Florida, NorCal), and I wouldn't trade my mountains for anything. Course, the two together wouldn't be bad at all, but for now the American West/SW is more accessible than...the Canary Islands? :beer:

[Gummee]

I've lived a lot of places in this country and there hasn't been a better all-round cycling area than this part of VA. Want hills? Go west. Want flats? Stay S and E of NoVA.

Lots of jobs, etc

I'd maybe (maybe!) say somewhere in NorCal-ish like Santa Rosa or the environs would be OK too, but jobs are probably harder to come by.

My $.02

M

[Elefantino]

Charlottesville and Asheville are on our radar when we make the inevitable move back east.

[.RJ]

I've lived a lot of places in this country and there hasn't been a better all-round cycling area than this part of VA. Want hills? Go west. Want flats? Stay S and E of NoVA.

Lots of jobs, etc


Yep. I've brought or rented a bike with me when I go somewhere for more than a few days, and, the area is really good for cycling when you stop to think about it. I think Denver is likely the only place thats really better on all fronts, in variety/culture/MUT/racing.

I'm re-writing my resume this week, and we'll see where it goes.

[colker]

Italia.

[fourflys]

I'm in a similar situation being active military, and living in fairfax county, due to retire soon....

I hear that... we've got one or two moves left before I hit my 30 , so we're looking at where we want to put down our things... we're actually looking hard at Louisville, KY. I'm from just outside of Indy and swore I'd never return there after I joined the Coast Guard. What I've found is Louisville is nothing like the rest of KY it would appear as far as "in the country"... the only downside will be the winters... I may have to buy another fat or "plus" bike... :D

[Ken Robb]

I hear that... we've got one or two moves left before I hit my 30 , so we're looking at where we want to put down our things... we're actually looking hard at Louisville, KY. I'm from just outside of Indy and swore I'd never return there after I joined the Coast Guard. What I've found is Louisville is nothing like the rest of KY it would appear as far as "in the country"... the only downside will be the winters... I may have to buy another fat or "plus" bike... :D

Leslie and I visited my daughter a few years ago when she was living in Louisville. We all thought it was nice and housing was very reasonable.

[ojingoh]

Some great advice here!

My background: software startup entrepreneur. I have a preference for bike friendly cities, technology and progressive politics. Culture is important, thoughtful people are important. People who read books.

I live in Seattle, don't move here, it's starting to suck.

Portland is ok, Bend is ok. It is striking the difference in attitude (Red state rural vs Blue state Urban) just 20 miles from downtown Portland/Eugene. I'd actually recommend Ashland over either of those. Alternatively, consider Walla Walla, Wa or Boise. Both of those have cold winters though. Walla Walla is wine country, Boise is becoming cool.

Boulder is a mecca for cyclists. Peter/OP can tell you all about it. CU is there too.

I went to college in Utah. If you are into outdoor stuff, Utah is cheap and good. SLC is a good place to find work, a ton of startups are kicking off. Plus there's the NSA thing right down the road. St. George is nice. Never biked there.

I have a soft spot for stoney central coast California. A lot of my buddies are moving out of SF and the valley out to the coast. I would look at east or west of the bay. Davis? Maybe San Luis Obispo?

Finally I was impressed as hell with Tucson for cyclists. I hear a lot of pro teams train there. A lot of good riding and urban trails, like 100 miles of it right in the middle of town. Major research university too, Davis AFB is there, Intuit is there, some startups. Cheap real estate. Hot in the summer. I would not live in Phoenix. Flagstaff is fun, and a surprisingly cool climate. Also has a college.

[Kirk007]

The latest from Seattle headlines: 9 sunny days since 10/01/15. Yeah, 1.5 days/month.

[dbnm]

Albuquerque New Mexico.

Cheap living.

300 days of sunshine.

Mountains. Quiet roads. The Rio Grande.

[HenryA]

I suggest you visit Huntsville Alabama and maybe Gainesville Florida. Both are smaller cities but I think you'll find just enough culture there. Great riding around both.

I have lived near Nashville for a long, long time and it's pretty happening here right now. Lots of growth and people coming here. We have some gorgeous riding and the very mild winters let you ride through the year. It's starting to feel crowded to me, but coming from where you are it might feel pleasantly small to you.

Out west I think the Denver area has some real high estate prices now. But it'll have everything else you want. Salt Lake City might be just as nice and maybe cheaper.

[caleb]

I really enjoy visiting coastal southern California, but I don't think I'd want to necessarily live there long term.

The places that seem to have remained on my shortlist for years are small to medium cities in the mountains that get a lot of sun. Flagstaff, Santa Fe, and Delta Junction are particular examples I keep coming back to. Bozeman, Boise, Walla Walla, or Spokane for more snow.

OP's requirement for a major international airport and DoD work would make me think of Denver and maybe SLC, as lots of others have now mentioned.

[fuzzalow]

These threads/topics are always a great fascination for me. Because it clues me in to thinking and attitudes that I can't and won't see from inside my bubble. I've taken to using the term "living in my bubble" not as a form of coastal elitism and self-flattery but rather as a warning & reminder that I've gotta stay open to others thinking by being less insular. I will however accede to modest elitism :o by believing I have the capacity and flexibility to comprehend a diversity of conflicting ideas - which means I wanna hear different views if they can be coherently expressed.

I'd like to ask, whether in specific or general terms, what does it mean when things "start to suck"?

I live in Seattle, don't move here, it's starting to suck.

I lived in the NYC suburbs for over 20 years. Through all that time, "starting to suck" might have meant the roadways got more congested and crowded and traffic "started to suck" from what it was like then to what it is now. But still nor horrible. Taxes gradually got more expensive. Lotsa things over time got more expensive. Anything else? I couldn't tell you - IMO the changes just happened and become a part of your life.

I don't buy the gripe that housing costs more because that is a natural advancement of areas that people want to live in, the alternative is hollowed out communities and declining real estate values and nobody wants that.

So if you think wherever you live is "starting to suck", what does that mean to you?

The latest from Seattle headlines: 9 sunny days since 10/01/15. Yeah, 1.5 days/month.

Whew! Dunno how you Pac-NW'ers do it. Folks take digs at Manhattan that it is crowded and dirty and yet somewhere else, it's had 9 sunny days since 10/01/15 and that's OK? I like where I'm at just fine, thanks very much.

[weisan]

I don't buy the gripe that housing costs more because that is a natural advancement of areas that people want to live in, the alternative is hollowed out communities and declining real estate values and nobody wants that.

Strange...or maybe not. I was just thinking that exact same thought earlier today when I was out enjoying a very nice sunny day here in Austin riding on the local trail.

[Tandem Rider]

[QUOTE=fuzzalow;expressed.

I'd like to ask, whether in specific or general terms, what does it mean when things "start to suck"?



[/QUOTE]

Ok, I'll play :)

We sold our house and are moving, partly because things are starting to "suck" here.
1. Large population of people without employment, or the possibility of future employment, has moved into the area. Bringing with them a drain on the social services provided to longer term residents experiencing a round of "hard times". Along with this has come a documented increase in drug arrests, assaults, burglaries, etc.
2. Lower performance from school system, attributable to many causes, some of which are linked directly back to #1 above.
3. Increased property taxes with no corresponding increase in services provided, ours have gone up 120% in the last 3 years.
4. Increased congestion on the roads, higher daily traffic count, guessing this is due primarily to the increase in population. Arterial road construction has not happened, we are squeezing more through the same funnels.
5. This is a perception, not empirically derived, the general attitude is much more aggressive and significantly less friendly. This opinion is shared by our friends who have lived here for a long time.

Granted, we are a large university town, therefore, having a large portion of the population as transient is inherent, but these changes are new in the last few years.

[tab123]

After living in Chicago (the city, not the suburbs) for 30 years, I moved to Bend about six years ago. To quote the locals' favorite bumper sticker: Bend Sucks. Don't Move Here. (And I recognize I'm a new arrival to the town so am part of the problem for long-time residents.) Now that I've done my civic duty, here are some random views of Bend.

It is a paradise for year-round recreation unless you cannot handle any sort of winter weather. Bend's climate is similar to Denver except Bend usually receives less snow in town (this past winter was an exception) and fewer of those glorious winter days when it is 65 degrees and sunny (as Denver enjoys). You can XC ski in the morning and ride your bike in the high desert east of town in the afternoon.

The road biking is terrific, lots of good climbs and many country roads without much traffic (but also without big shoulders). The CX scene is great. You can get passed by pro riders, and they are friendly. And, you do see Chris Horner every so often. (After living in what has to be the flattest area of America, I finally can handle climbing.)

You can hike all year, the high desert in the winter and the mountains in the summer. Hiking is getting more and more crowded. Visit Bend (the local tourist board) has done its job well. Last summer the trails were packed with tourists. (What is wrong with people that they can't pick up their trash in a wilderness area? It is not only tourists who are polluting; there are lots of local yahoos who think it is their right to trash the wilderness.)

Bend has economic diversity, but there is little racial or ethnic diversity. It is a progressive place but not too new age-y/woo woo, and the surrounding area is solidly red state. The town itself could use some better management to handle the growing pains.

I can attest that there are jerks everywhere, even in a small town. (A population of 85k seems small after living in a large city.) The jerks on the West Coast do, however, tend to be slower on the draw than those in the Midwest and East.

[marciero]

Am following with interest. I used to live in Flagstaff and Sedona many years ago but was not a cyclist. I did love it though. Albuquerque sounds tempting. I did a cycling vacation around Boone and Asheville two years ago and was great. This past Spring break was in South Carolina between Greenville and Asheville. Some great cycling there, for sure.

[.RJ]

The latest from Seattle headlines: 9 sunny days since 10/01/15. Yeah, 1.5 days/month.

I cant decide if the 4 months of sunshine in the summer makes up for gloomy winters. I just started cruising redfin for what's on the housing market... and holy ****... thats all I have to say about that. Seattle might be out. I dont think I want to do 'real' winter like in Bend.

Going to take a trip out to denver later this spring with my other half and stay with a friend out there for a long weekend. Its been a few years since I've been out there.

[Gummee]

Am following with interest. I used to live in Flagstaff and Sedona many years ago but was not a cyclist. I did love it though. Albuquerque sounds tempting. I did a cycling vacation around Boone and Asheville two years ago and was great. This past Spring break was in South Carolina between Greenville and Asheville. Some great cycling there, for sure.

IME if you're road only, Flag sucks for riding. 3 roads outta town with 2 of the 3 being fast highways. The one towards the Rez has drunk Navajo on it. The one towards the GC has lots of RVs

Now, having said that... if you ride the forest service roads, things open up in an amazing way. Many many many more miles of dirt/gravel/off-roading than road riding.

Didn't live in Sedona. Visited a few times, but was running more than riding back then

HTH

M

[paredown]

I cant decide if the 4 months of sunshine in the summer makes up for gloomy winters. I just started cruising redfin for what's on the housing market... and holy ****... thats all I have to say about that. Seattle might be out. I dont think I want to do 'real' winter like in Bend.

Going to take a trip out to denver later this spring with my other half and stay with a friend out there for a long weekend. Its been a few years since I've been out there.
OMG--just checked the Z-Estimate of our old house in Seattle--$1.169 million.:eek: I had no idea...

[.RJ]

OMG--just checked the Z-Estimate of our old house in Seattle--$1.169 million.:eek: I had no idea...

Real estate in lots of cities close to where the action is has gone crazy in so many places.... SF, Denver, Austin, Seattle, DC, and Toronto is heading towards a giant bubble right now. I gotta get in on the front end of the wave in one of these places thats good for bike riding :D

[fuzzalow]

Strange...or maybe not. I was just thinking that exact same thought earlier today when I was out enjoying a very nice sunny day here in Austin riding on the local trail.

Brilliant minds think alike.;). In some fashion, I guess it speaks well to the ideal of home ownership, which is still looked at as part of the American dream. Owning as opposed to renting allows participation in capital growth which is IMO not to leverage against that asset as many did during the housing bubble/crash but rather as a means of stabilizing living expenses against rising popularity in attractive neighborhoods & cities. Renters are forever at the mercy of the prevailing market.

Ok, I'll play :)

We sold our house and are moving, partly because things are starting to "suck" here.
1. Large population of people without employment, or the possibility of future employment, has moved into the area. Bringing with them a drain on the social services provided to longer term residents experiencing a round of "hard times". Along with this has come a documented increase in drug arrests, assaults, burglaries, etc.
2. Lower performance from school system, attributable to many causes, some of which are linked directly back to #1 above.
3. Increased property taxes with no corresponding increase in services provided, ours have gone up 120% in the last 3 years.
4. Increased congestion on the roads, higher daily traffic count, guessing this is due primarily to the increase in population. Arterial road construction has not happened, we are squeezing more through the same funnels.
5. This is a perception, not empirically derived, the general attitude is much more aggressive and significantly less friendly. This opinion is shared by our friends who have lived here for a long time.

Granted, we are a large university town, therefore, having a large portion of the population as transient is inherent, but these changes are new in the last few years.

I have very little understanding of how areas go through these kind of changes. Although I lived in NYC during the 1970's and experienced the neighborhood of my boyhood home undergo wrenching changes and to put it bluntly, "white flight" that completely changed its character in less than 1 or 2 years. Most of the volatility, influx and outflow from the large rental apartment complex in the area. That really sucked but a lotta homeowners held on and today enjoy property values that recovered in step with the rest of NYC.

But as politically incorrect as it may sound, that experience always left a lasting impression on me of the sheer pathos and disgust of people that have no remorse or compunction in destroying what and where they themselves live. Goddamn animals. Ah, the NYC of the 70's that some may look back on fondly while probably never having lived it.

What you describe above sounds more like a rise in homeless which I couldn't explain as other than from economic dislocation and hardship in the area. Between income inequality and the rise in the cost of housing in many areas, there is the inevitable squeeze going on and that is some very real problems all local governments have to deal with.

BTW I Googled for homeless statistics and looked at the first hit: Poverty: 10 Cities With the Most Homeless People (http://www.cheatsheet.com/culture/cities-with-the-most-homeless-people.html/?a=viewall). NYC has the highest number of homeless in the nation. A lot of homeless kids make their way in and out of the NYC Public School system although not in the NYC public schools located in the desirable zip codes.

I live in Seattle, don't move here, it's starting to suck.

HaHa! Define suck. If it is sitting in traffic with other Mini Coopers then maybe things aren't quite so bad. See the link above on homeless - NYC has 6 times the homeless population that Seattle does. It is what it is.

[merlinmurph]

I'd like to ask, whether in specific or general terms, what does it mean when things "start to suck"?

I'm going to guess that it means "It ain't what it used to be"

Examples might be Bend OR, Bozeman MT, Seattle, Portland, i.e. areas that have experienced enormous growth and whose character has dramatically changed as a result. To someone that has lived in that area a long time and seen the changes, it's not a positive. To the newcomer, they really only see the present situation, and there is no suck.

As I mentioned before, when we were in the Bend area we liked it a lot. It was small, but offered a lot for us. We could also see the growing pains it was having and could understand a longtime Bend resident saying it's starting to suck.

Just my 2 cents,
Murph

[Clean39T]

NYC has 6 times the homeless population that Seattle does. It is what it is.


It's not the homeless in Seattle that are the issue - it's a big city that has gotten really expensive and working/service class folks are struggling to say the least, mostly invisibly in the close-in suburbs of Kent, Renton, etc. - what sucks about Seattle (and Portland) are the feral, professional homeless who have completely abrogated their role in the social contract and are only interested in drugs and crime. Google "the jungle Seattle".

For a cyclist, this matters. The feral population ends up living in tent encampments along cycling trails, in the woods, in areas we commute through - and that makes for a very unsafe situation.

There have been rapes and random attacks in Portland on cyclists and runners. Parts of the city are no-go zones at this point - parts that used to be what made Portland a great place to live. Now you can't go anywhere close to downtown without finding needles, feces, and trash.

I understand the laws of dependent origination that led these people to where they are today, and I donate to causes trying to help them, but I still have to think about my safety and that of my family/friends.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[54ny77]

great thread. interesting to read the various perspectives of one's locales.

[Tickdoc]

Well, don't come here. We have many days of sunshine, great car-less roads ( well, for a bicycle) and the cheapest housing in the country.

But I feel our lifestyle slowly changing as people are discovering the charm and cost of living.

The lack of traffic is one of our biggest attributes.

But on the flip side, the roads are in bad shape, rednecks abound, the summers are miserable hot and humid, and the schools suck.

Zillow price compare here to most places and zow wee you can get some bargains.

[Schmed]

People are jerks everywhere, exhibit A:

There was a trail-rage incident the other day on my little trail system in Golden, CO. MTBiker comes up on a trail runner who's wearing headphones. Biker rings bell, runner can't hear. Biker decides to pass, and shakes his head, disapprovingly at the runner. Runner says something like "shake your head again and I'll beat your a$$".

Biker comes across runner later on his ride in a different area of the trail system. Runner grabs him by the throat, pushes him on a rock, punches him numerous times, stomps his bike, throws it off the side of the trail, and runs off.

*** is wrong with people?

I wouldn't classify Colorado as Starting to Suck, but it seems that almost everywhere is trending towards StSS (Starting to Suck Status)!

[54ny77]

I ride with a couple of buddies now & then, one of whom was high level LEO (recently retired). Both almost always ride with small concealed carry in bag mounted on bike. And, the retired LEO has actually had a couple of incidents where it might have been needed, but cooler heads prevailed...along with a swarm of p.d. on scene quickly.

Sad state of affairs to even think that such a scenario could exist while riding a bike. A friggin' bike.


People are jerks everywhere, exhibit A:

There was a trail-rage incident the other day on my little trail system in Golden, CO. MTBiker comes up on a trail runner who's wearing headphones. Biker rings bell, runner can't hear. Biker decides to pass, and shakes his head, disapprovingly at the runner. Runner says something like "shake your head again and I'll beat your a$$".

Biker comes across runner later on his ride in a different area of the trail system. Runner grabs him by the throat, pushes him on a rock, punches him numerous times, stomps his bike, throws it off the side of the trail, and runs off.

*** is wrong with people?

I wouldn't classify Colorado as Starting to Suck, but it seems that almost everywhere is trending towards StSS (Starting to Suck Status)!

[notsew]

NYC has 6 times the homeless population that Seattle does. It is what it is.

And six times the population (and area for that matter). So not that different really.

Seattle peaked in like 2005. Its been a long downhill slog to gentrification - which I get happens, that doesn't mean you have to like it - and its absolutely unaffordable for most people. And it has subpar public transit. Its lost its soul.

[fuzzalow]

And six times the population (and area for that matter). So not that different really.

I checked the Wiki page summary for NYC and Seattle and did a back of the envelope calc:
NYC has 12.5 times greater population than Seattle
NYC has 3.6 times greater land area than Seattle
NYC has 6.85 times greater homeless population than Seattle
What does this mean? Nuthin', other than we NY'ers don't have as many homeless as Seattle does on a per capita basis but we NY'ers pack 'em in tighter proportionate to the land we've got.:D

Look, there are no braggin' rights here, this is a problem we, as a nation, have to address and fix. And local governments cannot deficit spend as can the Federal government so we all cannot avoid dealing with this problem indefinitely. All politics is local.

Seattle peaked in like 2005. Its been a long downhill slog to gentrification - which I get happens, that doesn't mean you have to like it - and its absolutely unaffordable for most people. And it has subpar public transit. Its lost its soul.

Gentrification is a good thing especially when considering the opposite. Nothing stays the same and it is foolish to expect that things should "be as they used to be". That's simply not how life works and frankly, is anathema to the inherent desire and instinct of mankind to progress and improve. But I don't advocate letting people get crushed by the wheels of progress either and for that you need government in, to my political persuasion, a very (VERY) limited form to aid in keeping a balance and stability in the local communities. The average person has no chance against the free market and I'd never choose free markets over Christian charity. We are the richest, most powerful nation state on earth and I don't deign it as part of American DNA to be blind to the cruelties of the free market.

I'll say one last thing on this topic of finding a better place to live. I think that the job & career prospects always drive the choices on where to live. For me, that is the only thing I'm looking for or care about. Bikes, as important as they are to me, aren't more important than going to a place that's best for my career. With a good job and income there will always be an opportunity to find a nice place to live.

I have no idea how I got on this tangent!:crap:

[notsew]

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone can stand in the way of progress. On top of that, its something that is incredibly hard to mitigate with public policy.

After following the NYC in the 1970s discussion (which was very interesting), I can see the argument for the type of changes NYC has experienced. There's a lot to be said for public safety.

On the other hand, Seattle never had the crime or violence that NYC had. It was a small feeling town, now its more of a big city and along the way is actually loosing its areas of diversity (although its always been a highly segregated city) and character in the march towards uniformity. It is what it is and there's nothing much anyone could do about it, but for the purposes of this conversation, I think that makes it a less desirable place to live.

Then again, its probably a good thing they'll never see this sign again:

https://gilmanpark.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/lastpersonleavingseattle_31.jpg

[jlwdm]

And NYC has 5" more average annual rainfall than Seattle.

Jeff

[Lovetoclimb]

I would suggest Huntsville, Alabama. Yes, I stereotyped it before I got there and boy did I change my mind. Small city but plenty of good cycling. Lots of hills to train, mountain biking and cyclocross. You never get the snow that you did in your neck of the woods. You can ride all year around with just a little discomfort.

I have been in around Fairfax Virginia at least a dozen times and Huntsville reminds of very much of Fairfax.

Housing is still affordable and available. Homes that would be about a $800,000 dollars in Toronto, sell for about $300,000 in Huntsville and surrounding area. As for jobs, there is the Redstone Arsenal and of course NASA which might be good for your wife.

The downside of Huntsville is flying in and out of the airport. It has the most expensive tickets to fly in the country, so many fly to Nashville and take the shuttle into Huntsville (this is what I do). They also don't sell Powerball which means driving to Tennessee. Tornadoes can also be troublesome. I had the rare privilege of seeing my first Tornado as I was driving from Nashville to Huntsville and it was pretty scary.

Check it out online, it might be a contender.

I have to provide a completely different take on Huntsville after living there for a year. Worst road rage incidents (also highest number of them) occurred there on everything from 7am commutes to work to after work and weekend road rides. Just the biggest collection of "asshole" drivers I've ever encountered in addition to streets becoming increasingly clogged and poorly designed for bikes to boot. One of the worst cities I have attempted to find enjoyment out of, but hey they have endless sprawl and chain stores/restaurants dotting the surrounding landscape so maybe that's a plus for some.

I will give a big up to Cincinnati OH where I lived for quite a while. Better still live outside the I-275 beltway in Northern KY and have access to some seriously prime road riding right out your door with a 15-20 min drive to downtown. IT work has to be plentiful there, DOD/Military no idea but its a sizable city that is growing gangbusters. MTB and gravel riding are limited but there is a strong and dedicated MTB scene there with several 6hr races, the Mohican MTB race a few hours drive away, and some top notch gravel riding within 2 hrs in SE OH, and deeper into KY.

Currently residing in Western NC and if you can make the careers work in or near Asheville, I have to give it the top spot. Ignoring the city of Asheville, property is still affordable, and a sound investment, on balance the riding here has to rival a place like Boulder for access to whatever you want close to right out your door depending where you are in relation to Pisgah Natl Forest. As someone who always felt to pull towards Norcal, PNW, their agreeable climates, ecosystems, and the people I've met from those areas, I have come to accept the many negative aspects I see about living here that are outweighed by the positives. The riding being the biggest positive of them all.

Happy to answer any questions about Cinci or Asheville as best I can, enjoyed living in Cinci for 4 years, and coming up on 5 years in WNC.

[.RJ]

Bringing this thread back from the dead....

Currently following some job leads in Seattle, Charlottesville, Raleigh/Charlotte, and Charleston SC. We'll see where this leads...

I'm flying out for an interview in Seattle next week but the cost of living there has me very hesitant - I know the steady economic growth we're in wont last forever.

[Stevemikesteve]

I'm with you. I read through this thread a bit and I'm glad to see Southern California is apparently off your list. I've been in San Diego 15 years and I'm done: crowded, dirty, more and more expensive seemingly each day. Flying to Eugene Oregon next week for a second interview (yes, another Socal transplant is on the way. Sorry. But for what it's worth I'm a DUCK!). Fiancee and I had our search down to handful of choices and we just don't want to be near a major city anymore. Seattle area was discussed but it's expensive. And crowded. Hopefully our Eugene quest pans out. So far what we had been told was going to be an uphill battle to find a job has been filled with options. Good luck to you!

Bringing this thread back from the dead....

Currently following some job leads in Seattle, Charlottesville, Raleigh/Charlotte, and Charleston SC. We'll see where this leads...

I'm flying out for an interview in Seattle next week but the cost of living there has me very hesitant - I know the steady economic growth we're in wont last forever.

[KJMUNC]

Somehow Austin was barely mentioned in this thread......has it jumped the shark?

We moved from SoCal (cue the jokes/ducking) 3 years ago and love it. Yes it's more expensive than it used to be but there are a wide variety of options for housing. More than anything we love the entertainment options (music and restaurants), outdoor activities, and riding/terrain.

Traffic is only as bad as you choose to make it. People who choose to live in terrible traffic corridors a far distance from work can't complain.

That said, you're investigating some pretty good options.....good luck with whichever one you choose!

[.RJ]

I still like the idea of Austin, but its a long shot as far as securing employment right now. There was one promising lead to follow but it didnt go very far.

I think SoCal will remain a nice place to visit once or twice a year - one of the things we've converged on is cheaper cost of living, not more.

[texbike]

Somehow Austin was barely mentioned in this thread......has it jumped the shark?

We moved from SoCal (cue the jokes/ducking) 3 years ago and love it. Yes it's more expensive than it used to be but there are a wide variety of options for housing. More than anything we love the entertainment options (music and restaurants), outdoor activities, and riding/terrain.

Traffic is only as bad as you choose to make it. People who choose to live in terrible traffic corridors a far distance from work can't complain.

That said, you're investigating some pretty good options.....good luck with whichever one you choose!

I still like the idea of Austin, but its a long shot as far as securing employment right now.

That's funny. I actually see Austin as a fantastic place from a software development and IT job perspective. I'm in the cyber-security space and a good portion of my clients are smaller, dev-heavy entities. There are a LOT of those here.

Sadly, I see the quality of road cycling diminishing as the city grows and traffic continues to increase. We live somewhat Central with great access to in-town riding, but it now takes FOREVER (30-45 minutes) to get out to anything resembling a rural, low-traffic environment at this point from our house.

I still think Reno would be a great option as well as towns along the Front Range or the Wasatch. Each offers a decent tech/IT element along with great access to the outdoors including cycling and skiing.

Texbike

[.RJ]

That's funny. I actually see Austin as a fantastic place from a software development and IT job perspective.

I do too. I've heard a lot of good things about it, the wife is on board, but, without a job lead I'm a bit stuck.

If you've got any referrals I'm all ears...

[thunderworks]

life's what you make it.

that said, i vote somewhere in tuscany, italy.

:hello:

+1

By far the best suggestion.

[.RJ]

+1

By far the best suggestion.

Yes, Agree. My wife is fluent in italian, and has been taking the entrance exam for foreign service officers the past few years. Hoping that lands us a spot there.... eventually. I have no problems being a house husband and riding during the day :beer:

[Mr. Pink]

Um, you know, Tuscany is a really nice place, but, essentially, it's home to a lot of poor farmers, right? And, well, the world's 1% "investing" in a cool place to own a third or fourth home. Good luck with that job.

I'm being deadly serious here. If you like Tuscany, but, want to come back to Earth and settle in a beautiful place that has rolling roads through farmland that's much more practical and close to jobs, try northern Baltimore county. Yup, Baltimore. Awesome biking just a half hour north of a major eastern city. If you're looking at a map, start at Cockeysville and work north to the PA. border along 83. Only downside is the nasty summer heat in July-August. Dawn riding.

Second vote is upstate NY. Albany area, north. If you can find a job.

[SeanScott]

Ojai offers really great Road, CX and MTB out your back door as well as really nice people. Also 15 minutes from the ocean. Check it out on the Amgen Tour today.

[texbike]

I do too. I've heard a lot of good things about it, the wife is on board, but, without a job lead I'm a bit stuck.

If you've got any referrals I'm all ears...

Send me a PM with some of your background and and what you're looking for. I'd be happy to help if possible. If nothing else, I can provide some intel on companies in the area that are killing it and aggressively hiring.

Ojai offers really great Road, CX and MTB out your back door as well as really nice people. Also 15 minutes from the ocean. Check it out on the Amgen Tour today.

Ojai is beautiful! However, we couldn't find reasonably priced housing close to there 15 years ago when we were considering making a move to the area. I can only imagine what it must be like now... There's always Ventura and to a lesser degree, Oxnard and Port Hueneme that are close by.

Texbike

[.RJ]

Um, you know, Tuscany is a really nice place, but, essentially, it's home to a lot of poor farmers, right? And, well, the world's 1% "investing" in a cool place to own a third or fourth home. Good luck with that job.

The Italian job is a pipe dream for sure and it would be a great experience. But we can still dream :)

[Mr. Pink]

The Italian job is a pipe dream for sure and it would be a great experience. But we can still dream :)

The Italian economy is in extremely bad shape at the moment. The country has been in recession for a decade, some think two decades. The banking system could crumble at any moment, and is literally on life support. Like most of non German EU countries, most young people are unemployed or severely underemployed, living at home with parents. They have first dibs on jobs. Then there's the strong EU restrictions on non EU citizens getting jobs in most companies, both private, and, public, of course, and it's not as though jobs are for the taking for anybody these days. And, you better have that wacky language down pat before the first interview. That's a tough one. I would like to live there as a retiree, but found out that getting a drivers license is almost harder than a B.A. here, the language the first major obstacle.
But, it's a pretty country, the people are nice and really like Americans, mostly, and the food is awesome. Furgetabout the biking in a lot of places. It's like a religion.

[.RJ]

The only way that happens is if my wife is accepted into the foreign service, and lands a post there and I'd either not work or work remote. Certainly not making any plans or contingencies for that.

[bikingshearer]

Bicycling is fantastic in the Bay Area (at least the part that isn't the South Bay/San Jose). Road, Mountain, CX, BMX, Old school, hipster - anything you could want.

The weather is fantastic in the Bay Area (unless you hate fog and have to live in SF, Pacifica or Half Moon Bay).

Employment opportunities, cultural and sporting events, restaurants, all top-shelf in the Bay Area.

Outdoor activities are available at least 300 days a year, usually more, in the Bay Area. And if it isn't available in the immediate area, it is available in a half-day's drive or less.

Some of the most breath-taking scenery in the world is also within a half-day radius. And the immediate Bay Area is no slouch in the scenery department.

Yeah, the traffic is bad and getting worse, and the same is true of the roads. Oh, and the schools range from really good to truly awful. And we will have a bad-ass nasty killer earthquake sometime between now and 200 years from now. But other than that, if you can afford to live here, it's God's country.

That's a pretty big "if," though. And it's getting bigger all the time.

[skrhone]

Arizona....Phoenix or Tucson should check all you boxes if you can endure the 3 months of 100+ degree weather

Housing is affordable (unlike socal or norcal)
Great trails for MTB and good clean roads for Road
Lots of local rides and clubs

[JAGI410]

3 months of 100+ temps? You mean 8 months.

[Clean39T]

3 months of 100+ temps? You mean 8 months.


At least w Phoenix you have Prescott/Flagstaff to escape from the heat..

If I want to escape the rain/cold from Portland it's a long effin way to get anywhere.

[JAGI410]

Very true, that keeps Portland off my list, even though all other signs suggest I should live there! I did enjoy the Flagstaff escapes when I lived in Phoenix.

[Clean39T]

"good clean roads for Road"

Tell me more please - if one lives somewhat close in to the city wants to do a 70mi ride, where does one go? Do you drive out of town to ride on the weekends if you want climbs? How much do you have to fight SUVs for a spot on the road?

[BobO]

3 months of 100+ temps? You mean 8 months.

There's some variation from one year to the next, but, generally in Tucson the 100s are mid-May thru September. Phoenix is hotter by 2-5*. Tucson is much more bearable than Phoenix, the temps will spike in the afternoon but it'll cool at night much more than it does in Phoenix.

The temps in Arizona are extremely elevation dependent, as noted, Prescott (Press-Kit) will be 10* cooler than downtown Phoenix. My home in Oro Valley is a couple of degrees cooler than downtown Tucson at just 500' higher. The other thing to keep in mind is that if you're close to the mountains, there's a cooling breeze every evening as the cooler air falls.

[.RJ]

Arizona....Phoenix or Tucson should check all you boxes if you can endure the 3 months of 100+ degree weather


I spent a week out in Phx last year and rented a bike - did a nice ride out toward bartlett lake. It was hot, even in April but bearable. Its definitely different.

I had an interview in Seattle yesterday - looks like I can live east of the city without a horrible commute (bike or bus) with good access to cycling & mtb

[Mr. Pink]

But, it's a dry heat.

[makoti]

But, it's a dry heat.

So's my oven.

[Mr. Pink]

The only time I spent some time in Phoenix, I'll never forget opening my motel room door at, like 7am, and thinking, holy c**p!

[Clean39T]

I spent a week out in Phx last year and rented a bike - did a nice ride out toward bartlett lake. It was hot, even in April but bearable. Its definitely different.



I had an interview in Seattle yesterday - looks like I can live east of the city without a horrible commute (bike or bus) with good access to cycling & mtb


You haven't really lived till you've commuted across the I-90 bridge in sideways 40* rain...for two months straight...

That said, Seattle is a fun place and the Eastside burbs have gotten pretty nice over the years.

Day trips across the Sound can be a ton of fun.

[xjoex]

I spent a lot of time in Kiawah Island, right outside of Charleston. I was going to move there. I went on some group rides out of Mt. Pleasant. Nice enough roads. But no shoulders on any roads on the areas leaving the city. No hills anywhere.

The weather is great, beaches are fun too.

There are tons of IT jobs in Mt. Pleasant supporting the Navy base (SPAWAR). There is classified work there as well.

Cheers,
-Joe

[KVN]

Madison, WI is decent if you like beer and cheese and don't mind winters. Lots of tech jobs, strong bike scene, and bike infrastructure. S24 options out the wazoo, and great road riding.

[Louis]

Madison, WI is decent if you like beer and cheese and don't mind winters. Lots of tech jobs, strong bike scene, and bike infrastructure. S24 options out the wazoo, and great road riding.

Maybe for some, but IMO winter and great (or even good) road cycling don't mix. It's something you endure until the season passes and you can ride dressed as something other than the Michelin Man.

Furthermore, I have no interest in pedaling one of those mega-tire things on 3' of snow and calling that "cycling." It isn't.

[JAGI410]

Furthermore, I have no interest in pedaling one of those mega-tire things on 3' of snow and calling that "cycling." It isn't.

You're missing out on a lot of fun!

[staggerwing]

I'm a Cincinnati lifer, and will happily answer any questions about the area, but not seeing that it fits your employment requirements.

However, for DoD and Gov type jobs, the regional powerhouse is about an hour north, on the east side of Dayton at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. Major DoD research facility that, for better or worse, has resisted any and all cutbacks ever attempted. World class aviation museum on the public side of the base too.

Some really nice rolling farmland riding in the areas around there. Not to mention, if Dayton isn't enough, you are about an hour from both Columbus, to the east, Cincinnati, to the southwest, and two hours to Indianapolis, to the west.

[.RJ]

I hate winter.

DC gets bitter cold for about 10 weeks a year and I'd like to get away from that even if it means getting crispy hot for about 10 weeks in the summer, although DC gets the worst of both sides with the summer humidity. I'm not sure how I feel about 40 degrees and raining and gray for 3 months in seattle. I suspect I'd grow to dislike that too, but at least it would be different.

[.RJ]

Didnt land the job in Seattle.

The search continues :)

[Rimbaud]

I love living in Washington, and not just for the cycling. Too bad Seattle didn't pan out, but I'm closer to Vancouver (not BC) and wouldn't swap for the Seattle vicinity.