considering a new frame

[ntb1001]

I'm just starting to think about a new frame and would like some input from forum members.
I just sold my steel Pinarello Vuelta to another formite and now I'm toying with the idea of a modern steel replacement.
I loved my Pinarello but I didn't ride it much...it was just a sunny day nice ride kind of bike for me.
I was thinking of replacing a carbon frame with a modern steel frame.
I will want to hang Campy Record EPS on it.
I now have to decide on frame material and builder.
I have in mind steel, stainless(xcr), or maybe titainium.
I contacted Carl Strong, he suggests Titainium or regular modern steel over XCR, although he will build with it if I want.
if I get regular steel...I'm also considering Marinoni....Priuma Supreme.

So....what to consider??

Titainium..such as Strong??
or his steel frames.

or if steel....Marinoni???

and....what does anybody think of stainless such as XCR???

I really would like the bike to be a modern bike with a weight that is closer to carbon than my old Pinarello.
I am only hesitant to Ti because I have had a Litespeed Classic years ago and I liked carbon better when I switched..Carl Strong says modern Ti is way better than the older stuff.

need comments and opinions.


Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[weisan]

I would listen to Carl pal...or whoever you chose to build your bike ultimately. You are paying for their advice and expertise.

Personally, I have the privilege of owning both modern steel and 20-30 year old classic bikes like Rivendell and Eddy Merckx. I like them both.

[SPOKE]

Dave Kirk Onesto.......you'll absolutely love it!!!!:banana::banana:

[Lanternrouge]

If this helps at all, I don't need anything, but I think often of a TI Carl Strong joining my stable. I don't think you can go wrong with anything by either him or Marinoni, but I would go with all the builder's recommendations.

[fogrider]

the question in my mind is what are you looking for in your ride? its seems like there are so many options for modern bikes...disc brakes, larger tires, electronic shifting...in general a stainless steel bike still rides like steel. if you're gonna stay on pavement, I would stay with steel. if you're going see dirt and gravel, I would consider ti.

[Jeff N.]

Firefly, if you don't mind a long wait.

[OtayBW]

I contacted Carl Strong, he suggests Titainium or regular modern steel over XCR, although he will build with it if I want.
I'm wondering what the rationale was for this comment about modern steel vs stainless - performance issue or just the builder's preference?

[Hilltopperny]

Modern titanium is light and responsive with its oversized tubes. I personally loved my old serotta ti bike with a 1" head tube for longer rides, but my modern ti bike does feel more responsive, can be built up lighter and still with a comfortable ride. I prefer it to my carbon bike, but you can't go wrong with modern steel which I prefer over everything.

[Mikej]

SS was never a legitimate choice- sorry I said it- ti rules - sorry, I said that too.

[jghall]

Lots of great builders out there. Strong, Kirk, Desalvo, etc. Both modern steel and modern ti can be made into an excellent ride in the hands of a good builder.

[oldpotatoe]

I'm wondering what the rationale was for this comment about modern steel vs stainless - performance issue or just the builder's preference?

Jumping in..I had a stainless steel Waterford, and even tho 3 times the $..it rode like a.....

steel bike. I couldn't tell any difference between it and a R-22(lugged steel frame, both) I had.

Not sure the differences in performance(none?) justifies the added $. For that $, get a titanium frame.

[AngryScientist]

first off, if i was an electronic shifting guy, there is no way i would buy a big dollar campy or shimano electronic group right now.

the people have spoken and sram's wireless group is pretty well loved. campy and shimano will follow shortly with wireless groups.

unless you have no concern for cost, need something very specific, or are a bizarre sized human, buying new titanium is a tough sell IMO. the cost for a new Ti frame from a reputable builder is very very high compared to what gently used titanium is selling for. just something to consider.

also - marinoni makes an awesome frame for a fantastic value.

[kohlboto]

I really like what Mariposa has been doing lately. And, they are in Toronto.

https://mariposabicycles.ca

And, you are not dealing with a 30% hit on the exchange rate (give or take) that comes with choosing a US frame builder...

[OtayBW]

Jumping in..I had a stainless steel Waterford, and even tho 3 times the $..it rode like a.....

steel bike. I couldn't tell any difference between it and a R-22(lugged steel frame, both) I had.

Not sure the differences in performance(none?) justifies the added $. For that $, get a titanium frame.
And that's my point. Just wondering if Carl S was commenting on steel vs SS from a savings/value perspective, or from performance. I have a SS and an EL-OS myself, and there is a world of difference between them, but I think that's because of a lot of other factors and not corrosion resistance. :)

[jghall]

I'm wondering what the rationale was for this comment about modern steel vs stainless - performance issue or just the builder's preference?

For what it's worth, most of the builders I've spoken to, or worked with, have suggested that s/s is not worth the extra expense. Not that it's not nice, more of a return on the dollar. Somewhat similar to what they have said on straight gauge ti vs. butted ti.

[OtayBW]

For what it's worth, most of the builders I've spoken to, or worked with, have suggested that s/s is not worth the extra expense. Not that it's not nice, more of a return on the dollar. Somewhat similar to what they have said on straight gauge ti vs. butted ti.
Yeah - I get that. Just wondering if that was what Mr. Strong was referring to. :beer:

[StanleySteamer]

Test ride a Marinoni, if that does'nt tickle your fancy, shop around for a used Moots frame.

[ntb1001]

And that's my point. Just wondering if Carl S was commenting on steel vs SS from a savings/value perspective, or from performance. I have a SS and an EL-OS myself, and there is a world of difference between them, but I think that's because of a lot of other factors and not corrosion resistance. :)
He said that steel is very good and $1000 cheaper than SS. He suggested Ti over SS if I was willing to spend the premium.

How do you compare you're SS to ELOS?? I just sold my ELOS.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[uber]

I had spoken to Carl a few years back. The impression he gave me was he liked steel and Ti, but saw little advantage of stainless over Ti in terms of cost or weight. If I were building with Carl, I would go with his recommendation. I agree also that the value is in a used Ti frame. Used Eriksen's I have seen and sold on this board are amazing values.
My personal preference in steel are for Pegs and Speedvagens. Campy EPS might look better on an SV, and Pegs require a healthy wait, but I don't remember many people saying how they are unhappy with their Pegoretti's. I think Sacha White has been doing an amazing job with his fit tours and attention to fit as well as frame construction. Sacha is also offering Enve 1.0 forks and carbon seat tubes to get performance and weight closer to carbon frames. Have a great time choosing your builder and material.

[booglebug]

Its all in the build, my Dunde rides different than my DeSalvo steel. My Eriksen rides different than my Seven Ti as by design. The builder can make the frame ride any way you want. Love the steel but Ti is my first choice.

[OtayBW]

He said that steel is very good and $1000 cheaper than SS. He suggested Ti over SS if I was willing to spend the premium.

How do you compare you're SS to ELOS?? I just sold my ELOS.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk
I can't. Geometries are different, tubing thickness, steering characteristics all quite different. They are both very responsive and comfortable for the long haul, but beyond that, there is enough difference in the 'non-materials' characteristics to make comparison between the materials difficult.

If I were in your shoes, if you like the feel of steel, then I don't know that I'd spend the extra dough for SS. Steel vs. Ti seems like a whole nuther matter that only you can decide. GL.

[oldpotatoe]

first off, if i was an electronic shifting guy, there is no way i would buy a big dollar campy or shimano electronic group right now.

the people have spoken and sram's wireless group is pretty well loved. campy and shimano will follow shortly with wireless groups.

unless you have no concern for cost, need something very specific, or are a bizarre sized human, buying new titanium is a tough sell IMO. the cost for a new Ti frame from a reputable builder is very very high compared to what gently used titanium is selling for. just something to consider.

also - marinoni makes an awesome frame for a fantastic value.

I don't have an inside line at either company but..I wouldn't bet the farm on this. Di2, in it's various iterations, wildly outsells etap. Particularly on carbon frames. VERY few production frames(zero) are not plumbed for both electronic and mechanical, made just for etap. etap is a boon for bike assemblers, not really for riders.

IMHO, of course.

[zank]

I would agree. I think the likelihood of Shimano making any major changes (wired to wireless) between Dura Ace generations is very very low. So in my estimation, wired Di2 is here for at least another four years.

[93legendti]

Hard to go wrong with any of the regular builders on this forum. Zank, Dave Kirk, Tom Kellogg and Carl Strong are all top notch and will not disappoint. I have had bikes from all of them, except Zank, but he should be in any discussion about a custom frame.

My Kirk is 10 years old and feels brand new and is still exciting to ride every time. I sold my Strong amd Kellogg, but wouldn't hesitate to get another.

I had a Ti Strong and would either get another or a custom blend.

[TunaAndBikes]

I think that with the prices at Marinoni right now there's really no going wrong with a Piuma or Piuma Supreme for a straightforward road bike.

Get one and maybe get it painted with an extra fancy paint job from VeloColour if you really want to splurge!

[sparky33]

I've heard from a few excellent builders that stainless is just a huge pain to work with...unreliable supply, difficult to cut, difficult to join. I believe Firefly is phasing out stainless, but maybe you could ask super nicely for it.

fwiw, My stainless (Reynolds tubes) Kirk is really nice.
Snappy, smooth, light-ish, exotic, pretty, and I don't have to worry about any paint.

I like titanium bikes for the same reasons, and there are way more titanium builders out there.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170320/06b537d1d4fc079f1ffedb99507b8586.jpg

[sales guy]

I'm wondering what the rationale was for this comment about modern steel vs stainless - performance issue or just the builder's preference?

For us, it's an issue with durability and expense. We do an XCr frame as well as an HSS/Spirit frame. The cost is higher on the stainless and it's a pain to weld. For a lugged frame, you wouldn't have the welding issues. You can burn thru it super fast and it's tough.

The durability thing, the tubing is stupid thin. And it can dent relatively easily if you aren't careful. On the same note tho, I had RBA do a review of our Elite HSS and they dented the downtube of it. You wouldn't know it if you didn't look hard or have it pointed out. I had that bike at NAHBS.

Stainless frames are stiffer than modern steel frames. At least that's what we've found. I had a customer who was looking at ti or ss and he called a bunch of US builders and they all said the same thing, go with a ti frame.

[OtayBW]

^ Interesting insight, especially SS being stiffer. Thanks for the input!

[sales guy]

^ Interesting insight, especially SS being stiffer. Thanks for the input!

many of our guys are similar size and have tried the different models. We are about 50 miles SE of London so good riding. They find the Stainless stiffer as well. The founder of our company rides an HSS/Spirit tubeset. Loves it more than the titanium or stainless we do.

Like I said, I had one guy in Wisconsin talk to 6 different builders in the US who do steel, titanium AND stainless. Every single one said go with titanium first, steel second and stainless third. I know the list and have spoken to them also. They don't like working with it. The expense, the difficulty working with WELDED, not lugged like Kirk, welded is really tough. Add into it stiffer, they prefer regular steel or titanium over Stainless.

[Waldo]

It's less about the frame and more about the parts. A vintage frame with modern components often makes a great riding bike. I have a 1978 Kvale and an early 1980s Baylis equipped with 11-speed Campy. Both are wonderful riding bikes and are in my regular rotation, together with an eTap equipped Rob English, a titanium Spectrum, and a carbon LandShark. Yes, the Baylis and the Kvale are heavier, but they climb, shift, and handle as well as anything else out there. If you didn't have modern shifting on your Pinarello, it may have been the parts that made you look for something else.

[ColonelJLloyd]

For us, it's an issue with durability and expense.

Who is "us"?

[ntb1001]

It's less about the frame and more about the parts. A vintage frame with modern components often makes a great riding bike. I have a 1978 Kvale and an early 1980s Baylis equipped with 11-speed Campy. Both are wonderful riding bikes and are in my regular rotation, together with an eTap equipped Rob English, a titanium Spectrum, and a carbon LandShark. Yes, the Baylis and the Kvale are heavier, but they climb, shift, and handle as well as anything else out there. If you didn't have modern shifting on your Pinarello, it may have been the parts that made you look for something else.
I had modern 11 speed Campy on it. The Pinarello was very nice riding....just heavy compaired to my carbon bike. I imagine that modern steel with be lighter, and have a snappier feel.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[jinbok]

Dave Kirk Onesto.......you'll absolutely love it!!!!:banana::banana:

:banana::banana::banana::banana:

[andeww]

Firefly, if you don't mind a long wait.

not sure your size, but here is one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/FIREFLY-STAINLESS-STEEL-USA-MADE-ROAD-BIKE-FRAMESET-55-56cm-w-ENVE-CHRIS-KING-/201857217113?hash=item2effa0b259:g:o~UAAOSwdGFYzHJ y