10sp cassettes and compact cranks

[JohnS]

This is just a general rant but I find it amusing (?) that the hot topic is compact cranks for lower gearing, yet the 10 sp cassette is denigrated. Everyone says that the 10sp is unneeded. That is true if just a ratio was being filled in, but Campy (in every set but the 13-26) added a "bailout" gear. The 11-21 became an 11-23, the 12-23 a 12-25, and the 13-26 the 13-29. Just my opinion...

[jeffg]

Originally posted by JohnS
This is just a general rant but I find it amusing (?) that the hot topic is compact cranks for lower gearing, yet the 10 sp cassette is denigrated. Everyone says that the 10sp is unneeded. That is true if just a ratio was being filled in, but Campy (in every set but the 13-26) added a "bailout" gear. The 11-21 became an 11-23, the 12-23 a 12-25, and the 13-26 the 13-29. Just my opinion...


I don't know about everyone ... but. My thought is simply that a 12-27 (Shimano) works well with an Alpine Double, since you still get a 53-13 and a 30X24 equivalent with very well spaced gears and little to no overlap. As for Campy, they prefer to keep a 16 tooth cog in all cassettes, thus a 53/39, 13-29 is the best double option IMO for those who need low, but not the lowest gears. That is why I have a compact double in nine speed DA, and a standard double with Campy. Far from denigrating 10 speed, I find the 13-29 to be a great cassette. The 13-26 strikes me as less useful (I would trade the 18 for a 12 in a heartbeat), but that has nothing to do with 10 speed per se. Heck, the new 10 speed DA adds a 16 to the 12-27, and offers neither a triple nor a 29.

[saab2000]

.... Campagnolo made a 12-21 Chorus cassette!!! Of at least an 11-21. I do not really need the 11, but I would be willing to live with it.

I think Shimano makes many more combinations than Campagnolo.

Now that I will be spending some time in the US I may wish to get a Record 11-21, but they ain't cheap and I do not really need Ti cogs.

I'd love a 12-21 or 11-20 corncob cassette!! :D

[JohnS]

That's what I'm saying, Saab. Think of the 10sp 11-23 as a 9sp corncob 11-21 with an extra bailout gear.

[saab2000]

... about the 11-23 and in Europe that has been my cassette for years. I use all the gears.

But here in the US where I ride it is mostly flat and I never use the 23.

But the 11-23 is definitely the way to go for any type of hilly riding.

I just like the look of the tiny corncob cassettes like I used to race on! :D

[BigMac]

I think part of the 10 speed bashing was spawned by S vs C rhetoric. Now with DA10, Campy-ophiles are going to respond with "copycat" and other senseless jibes. If someone wanted to really complain about the ever increasing cog counts, they should blame 8 speed. This is the system that widened chainline to its current (43.5mm?) level. This chainline is responsible for larger q cranks and excessive rear wheel dish, 2 very bad things in my book. When C and now S created 10 speed clusters, they simply narrowed cog spacing, narrowed chains and in case of DA10 they slightly narrowed the cogs. Same cranks and same bad wheeldish whether you choose 9 or 10 in rear. The early Campy EXA10 chain kinda sucked, it was pricey and couldn't go more than 1000 miles before it was shot...ok there was a slight learning curve. The latest Campy 10UD chain is as bombproof as the legendary Regina's from the 70's, and they even dumped the proprietary Permalink so your standard Park chaintool can even service the new model. Yes, its still outrageously priced but so are all things bicycling related these days.

Does it really matter if folks still want to banter about this nonsense? Only if it effects you. Hey, its somehow part of perverse human nature to bitch and complain about something...schools, taxes, government, 10speed drivetrains...let it go. The current Ultegra/Centaur gear is reasonably priced if you're among the value conscience and while none of the modern stuff will ever have the gleam of Campy's jewel-like C-Record gruppo, this stuff is mechanically better than anything the cycling industry has ever seen...that is except for Campy's BB (thank goodness for Phil Wood BB's!!)...just get out and ride...weather permitting.

Ride on!

[Cranstone]

I use an FSA 50/34 up front with a 13-29 (Campy Chorus) for the winter and a Wheels (Campy compatible) 11-27 for the rest of the time. Shifting is near perfect with both, probably a hair better with the Wheels cassette. 34 – 29 will get you up just about anything in Colorado. Everyone who tries it loves it. All the elegance (and right Q factor) of a double with the “get of jail” gears at the back

(BTW the 50-11 combination is bigger than a 53-12)

:beer:

[saab2000]

...10-speed stuff. Is it overkill? Of course. But I use all the gears and I have never had any problems with it. I used to use 8-speed Ergo and the shifting on the 10-speed is much better.

I have lived in Switzerland for most of the past 15 years. I use all 10 cogs on practically each and every ride. I like my 20-speed bike! :cool:

I bash nobody for anything they use.

[Jack Brunk]

Cranstone,
What rear derail are you using and what size is the cage ?.

Jack

[Cranstone]

Campy Chrous - Large derraileur. You could use a medium cage but it would only save a few grams. The large works perfectly. I've tried every combination of triple and double and this compact set up is the way to go.

All the best,


Peter

[flydhest]

Cranstone,

You are now my poster child for sensible gearing and the illustration that lower gearing does not necessarily mean a triple. Plus, you're giving up nothing on the top end.

What is a Wheels cassette? Where do you get it?

[Cranstone]

Nothing beats a compact - all the top end and lots in reserve in case you need it. The only time I switch to the 13-29 is in the winter when my fitness level decreases and it makes more sense to spin instead of mash. Here's a link to the Wheels web site: http://www.wheelsmfg.com/p_10spdconversion.html

All the best,


Peter