Divorced from road racing

[Veloo]

Not a new article so some may have already read this.

http://www.gravelcyclist.com/training-rides/a-divorce-from-florida-road-racing-by-k-dogg/

[cdn_bacon]

Thanks Danny for the read :) made me think twice when I took my new cross bike out on the trans-Canada trail. 6.5 hours, 4 people I encountered and no cars.

[earlfoss]

So road racing is not for him any more. Great. Good for him! He comes off as a burnout who needs a change of scenery. Bashing on the road scene is an easy way to get people commenting and talking smack. Fact is that road racing is a cold world. Deal with it. He's probably so soft in the emotions because he's got low T. Better hit up the anti-aging clinic.

[Brian Cdn]

Thanks Danny for the read :) made me think twice when I took my new cross bike out on the trans-Canada trail. 6.5 hours, 4 people I encountered and no cars.

Ditto that...
That trail is superb. Last time we rode it, the only cars we saw were parked at the trailhead.
Can't wait to get back out there. Cdn Bacon, we should organize a PaceLine gravel ride.

[Clancy]

So road racing is not for him any more. Great. Good for him! He comes off as a burnout who needs a change of scenery. Bashing on the road scene is an easy way to get people commenting and talking smack. Fact is that road racing is a cold world. Deal with it. He's probably so soft in the emotions because he's got low T. Better hit up the anti-aging clinic.

Yea, cold world, and I've always wondered why. Was around the road scene for a long time before venturing out to watch a friend race MTB. I was blown away by the vibe, much looser, friendlier, and supportive while still being hard and competitive. Also family oriented and kid friendly, coolers, pop-ups, lawn chairs. Kids riding around - even a kids race.

I was really taken back by the contrast.

Not too surprising the huge growth in MTB

The Gravel races I've done mimic that - and I much prefer it.

[earlfoss]

Road racing is what it is. It's a wasted effort to try to make what it is fit whatever your differing ideal of it is. It's good that he recognized that it was no longer for him, and that he found a different, less competitive discipline in the sport to rekindle his excitement.

It's lazy and clickbait-y to write bash pieces on road racing. Nothing gets Freds all in a lather than to start ripping on stuff like that.

Road racing an unforgiving sport all across the globe. This situation is not unique to Florida or even the USA for that matter.

[redir]

I love this line in regards to road racing, 'It was like chess and boxing combined..'

I'll have to borrow that one.

I don't know about Florida but in the mid Atlantic I'd swear road racing is a dying sport. That article going on 3 years old now was about the time we started seeing series declines in attendance. So if it's small fields he wants again then he's got it.

I think a lot of it has to do with these so called gravel races and Gran Fondo's and what not. That's not real racing IMHO but a lot of people think that it is and they don't want to show up to their local road races anymore to find out how out of shape they really are ;)

[Macadamia]

Yea, cold world, and I've always wondered why. Was around the road scene for a long time before venturing out to watch a friend race MTB. I was blown away by the vibe, much looser, friendlier, and supportive while still being hard and competitive. Also family oriented and kid friendly, coolers, pop-ups, lawn chairs. Kids riding around - even a kids race.

I was really taken back by the contrast.

Not too surprising the huge growth in MTB

The Gravel races I've done mimic that - and I much prefer it.

hmm sounds interesting but how long and what color are these people's socks?

[shovelhd]

So road racing is not for him any more. Great. Good for him! He comes off as a burnout who needs a change of scenery. Bashing on the road scene is an easy way to get people commenting and talking smack. Fact is that road racing is a cold world. Deal with it. He's probably so soft in the emotions because he's got low T. Better hit up the anti-aging clinic.

Outstanding!!! :hello: :beer:

[shovelhd]

I love this line in regards to road racing, 'It was like chess and boxing combined..'


That's why I loved crit racing. Chess with a split second clock. Road races always seemed to me to be in slow motion. More of a power race.



I don't know about Florida but in the mid Atlantic I'd swear road racing is a dying sport. That article going on 3 years old now was about the time we started seeing series declines in attendance. So if it's small fields he wants again then he's got it.

I think a lot of it has to do with these so called gravel races and Gran Fondo's and what not. That's not real racing IMHO but a lot of people think that it is and they don't want to show up to their local road races anymore to find out how out of shape they really are ;)

I have some real statistics that I cannot share with you, but the data shows that road racing (crit, road, TT) is flat, while MTB (gravel and MTB) and fondo have been growing steadily over the past five years. So it's not that road is decreasing, the others are growing much faster.

BTW gravel races and fondos can be "real racing", with officials, places, and prizes.

[John H.]

I think that your perspective of how hard, serious, sketchy, etc. road racing is depends largely on how well you are riding and what your place in the field is-

FWIW I have been a front of the field 1-2 pro racer and also a back marker in masters races (over a near 30 year span).

When you are at the pointy end of the race you don't worry about all that stuff- you just worry about racing. It does not seem overly dangerous, you don't worry about moving up, and you pretty much never even see the guys who are just there to punch their ticket and/or not get dropped.

But when you are middle/or back in terms of fitness/ability- everything is harder. It is hard to move up, everyone is in your way, everything feels sketchy, and you feel every acceleration and corner.

[MattTuck]

I think that your perspective of how hard, serious, sketchy, etc. road racing is depends largely on how well you are riding and what your place in the field is-

FWIW I have been a front of the field 1-2 pro racer and also a back marker in masters races (over a near 30 year span).

When you are at the pointy end of the race you don't worry about all that stuff- you just worry about racing. It does not seem overly dangerous, you don't worry about moving up, and you pretty much never even see the guys who are just there to punch their ticket and/or not get dropped.

But when you are middle/or back in terms of fitness/ability- everything is harder. It is hard to move up, everyone is in your way, everything feels sketchy, and you feel every acceleration and corner.

I think this, +100. Racing in a big group is intimidating. The fitness needed to compete, even in a cat 5 field, is way more than most recreational riders. If you want to grow the sport and make it more inclusive, you need to introduce formats that are more accessible to more riders.

[coffeecake]

Some great comments in this thread. I am a die-hard road racer, so that colors my experience.

I wish instead of complaining, he had made more of an effort in his scene. It's easy to write off roadies as assholes and all promoters as rude and attempting to maximize profit at the expense of race quality. It's a lot harder to try and promote a race that meets the standard he is setting.

Switching disciplines will be great for a while, but as gravel racing grows, the same problems that exist in road racing will likely arise.

[shovelhd]

I think this, +100. Racing in a big group is intimidating. The fitness needed to compete, even in a cat 5 field, is way more than most recreational riders. If you want to grow the sport and make it more inclusive, you need to introduce formats that are more accessible to more riders.

Of course it's intimidating. It's supposed to be hard. It's not the format, it's the canyon-sized gap of good instruction to bring new racers into the sport and develop them into quality amateurs. USAC is trying with the BRP but it's nowhere near enough. The model is to pay $10, sign on the dotted line, and take a dive off the 10m board into the deep end of the pool. That's a broken model.

Gravel and fondos are just time trials. They string out quick to discourage pack racing. That's fine if you're into that kind of thing.

[peanutgallery]

I raced as a 1/2 for years, here's my take

Cat 4: having fun
Cat 3: delusional
Masters: chasing something, not sure what
Cat 1/2: Unemployable

Still like the youngest person on the rise

[Black Dog]

I raced as a 1/2 for years, here's my take

Cat 4: having fun
Cat 3: delusional
Masters: chasing something, not sure what
Cat 1/2: Unemployable

Still like the youngest person on the rise

Great summary! :)

[berserk87]

Road racing can be a jerk-circus. I think some of the reason is that dudes can hang on in a pack and think that they are better than they are, due to the draft (climbing aside). Results can be a lot more random than a footrace or even a MTB race.

Chess and boxing? I don't see it. Maybe the chess thing. If punching became a legal part of road/crit racing, I would un-retire tomorrow.

[redir]

That's why I loved crit racing. Chess with a split second clock. Road races always seemed to me to be in slow motion. More of a power race.



I have some real statistics that I cannot share with you, but the data shows that road racing (crit, road, TT) is flat, while MTB (gravel and MTB) and fondo have been growing steadily over the past five years. So it's not that road is decreasing, the others are growing much faster.

BTW gravel races and fondos can be "real racing", with officials, places, and prizes.

I'm happy to hear that MTB racing attendance is on the rise. That seriously died off early mid 2000'nds around here in Virginia.

[Clancy]

And why can you not share the statistics? U.S. Cycling afraid of the numbers?

[crankles]

I raced as a 1/2 for years, here's my take

Cat 4: having fun
Cat 3: delusional
Masters: chasing something, not sure what
Cat 1/2: Unemployable

Still like the youngest person on the rise

This is funny because it's true. I don't miss road races much these days...but crits ah, I do miss me a good crit. Once a crit monkey, always a crit monkey.

[fuzzalow]

So road racing is not for him any more. Great. Good for him! He comes off as a burnout who needs a change of scenery. Bashing on the road scene is an easy way to get people commenting and talking smack. Fact is that road racing is a cold world. Deal with it. He's probably so soft in the emotions because he's got low T. Better hit up the anti-aging clinic.

I like that you take your hobby as seriously as you do. Cold world huh? What kinda cold we talkin' about here, being this is still all about a hobby and a pastime, right?

I raced long ago and probably before you were born. I never took it as shrill and as strident as you sound like you do. But I'm sure you win a lot more than I ever did.

You want cold world, you ain't seen nuthin' yet - try making a living in the real world.

I raced as a 1/2 for years, here's my take

Cat 4: having fun
Cat 3: delusional
Masters: chasing something, not sure what
Cat 1/2: Unemployable

Still like the youngest person on the rise

This makes sense to me. Good take.

[shovelhd]

And why can you not share the statistics? U.S. Cycling afraid of the numbers?

The data is not from USA Cycling.

[donevwil]

I raced as a 1/2 for years, here's my take

Cat 4: having fun
Cat 3: delusional
Masters: chasing something, not sure what
Cat 1/2: Unemployable

Still like the youngest person on the rise

+1 great summation !

Cat 4: I had great fun as a cat 4 but made the mistake of winning a few big races and was forced to upgrade.
Cat 3: I raced twice as a 3 and "retired", no more fun.
Masters: I know a few local Masters racers are on this forum (who may not realize they know who I am) so I'll leave this one alone except to say you nailed it.
Cat 1/2: A good friend, teammate and smart guy was a top local Cat 1 and needed a job. My then company had an appropriate opening so I pushed to get him hired. He was very good when he was at work, 'nuf said.

[Rusty Luggs]

I raced as a 1/2 for years, here's my take

Cat 4: having fun
Cat 3: delusional
Masters: chasing something, not sure what
Cat 1/2: Unemployable


Good summary/great take? Nah, mostly just a cynical one.....

[Black Dog]

Good summary/great take? Nah, mostly just a cynical one.....

Sure there are folks at each of these levels that are not like what was described but, as a general summation there is a lot of truth here. Certainly meshes well with my experiences racing all over North America. I would have added that the 1/2 riders tend to be a bit less serious about themselves as they become more serious about the sport and learn that as you get near the top you realize that you still have a long way to go.

[coffeecake]

I would have added that the 1/2 riders tend to be a bit less serious about themselves as they become more serious about the sport and learn that as you get near the top you realize that you still have a long way to go.

I have noticed this as well. When you're a cat 5, cat 1 seems like the top of the heap. Then you approach cat 1 and realize there are guys who train more than you, race way more than you, do more prestigious races than you, and still have not broken in to even the continental team level.

[benb]

The bizarre thing is there is nothing inherent about road racing that dictates there needs to be a dickhead attitude/jerk-circus/whatever. I'd be curious if different regions/countries have a more friendly scene.

I sure as hell have noticed the difference.

Oh and there are definitely folks at a Cat 1/2/Pro level in Fondos too. People with those licenses, ex-pros, etc.. all ride Fondo style events too.

Maybe it does have to do with people who can hang in the draft but aren't very good getting attitudes in road racing, that is a decent theory. MTB/Cross/etc.. drop those people more but I don't see how that really causes the attitudes to be so much better.

Not sure what is stopping road/crit organizers from getting a liquor license or hiring a rock band to play at or something. I've seen that kind of stuff at MTB & Cross, etc.. and it can't hurt the attitude. It's a chicken and egg situation, do the Roadies all jump in their car and leave quickly cause there is nothing fun going on and everyone is a jerk, or is everyone a jerk and leaves cause there is no beer or rock band at the race?

There were days I did road races where I regretted not doing something else. At least one of those days I won my race. Even when I came in DFL in MTB or Cross I still thought I had a really fantastic time.

[shovelhd]

I work a lot of road races, crits, and cross races. In general, the smaller races have less of a carnival atmosphere. Not surprising. However, if you haven't been to a national level road race or crit and not had a beer, then you didn't look too hard :).

[redir]

Sometimes road races are literally in the middle of nowhere and there really is nothing to do afterwards unless you like taking pictures of cows and sheep. I can think of quite a few though that were married together with some sort of festival and many of the racers would spend the night or weekend there. Otherwise it's BYOB ;)

[benb]

The beer thing was semi-tongue in cheek, I don't drink much, it seems like it doesn't go well with successful racing either since it tends to make you fat. Maybe that is a component of it being missing at road style events.

I would probably disagree with it having anything to do with location or size of race though. On average the MTB events I did were more "local" and "isolated" and still had on average more of that fun/festival type atmosphere. That is the big reason I never manage to do MTB events anymore, they are always in the boonies and involve lots of driving and more likely to involve a hotel room.

Maybe when my son is old enough to go do the kids race we can go do them together, for now it's kind of too hard.

[cachagua]

There is nothing inherent about road racing that dictates there needs to be a dickhead attitude/jerk-circus/whatever. I'd be curious if different regions/countries have a more friendly scene... I sure as hell have noticed the difference...

So have I. I raced in the Boston area, with the uptight, pushy, surly, just-as-soon-kill-ya-as-talk-to-ya East Coasters, and everybody was telling jokes and having a great time on the bike and off. The "upperclassmen" were welcoming and supportive, and the newbies were all sympathetic to each other's struggles, "Aw dude, you should have seen how much glue I got on me the first time I put on a sew-up!" I moved to the laid-back, mellow Pacific Northwest, and nobody will talk to each other or even look at each other at the start of a race, or afterward. The atmosphere of passive-aggressive hostility could be cut with a knife.

Lotta, lotta solo miles for me since then. Of course all this was many, many years back and I have no idea how either of those scenes may have changed, but my $.02 is that attitude can vary widely from one group of people to another.