Alloy Athena 11 to be valued in the future too?

[Veloo]

Seeing the 10 speed silver Chorus and Record parts being so highly valued as the years go on and availability goes down, do we think that silver Athena 11 speed will be as highly valued and sought after in the near or distant future?

[thirdgenbird]

I think the silver ultra shift levers and silver ultra torque cranks are already pushing that. The compact UT cranks are already at that level.

Time will tell on the power shift and power torque stuff. I personally haven't used either but they sure are pretty. I've also heard several people say they prefer the droopy power shift ergos.

[stephenmarklay]

No I don’t. I don’t think the quality that they had is present in Athena. All though old potatoe is the authority on such matters.

[tuscanyswe]

I dont think they will either but i dont think it has a lot to do with quality tho, more perceived field of usage or something like that.

Silver chorus 10s was one of the best group sets ever. 10s centaur more or less identical. They both carry a premium when in good condition as said.
Even when sold it was perceived as this great group and that is the main difference vs athena imo.

The athena ultra shifters and ut cranks were not perhaps perceived as the best or one of the best groups you can buy. The main insentive to buy it was because it was silver and or perhaps cheaper than chorus / record and was marketed as such.

The high of the 10s era was a lot about making hot bikes in silver and or silver / carbon group sets. You could still pimp your best new tech frame with silver bits and groups and hot bikes were marketed with such parts.

The high of the 11s era is / was a lot about making hot bikes in black carbon. Athena offered and marketed as something for the retrogrouch imo


For those reasons i dont think it will fetch the same premium even years from now.

[choke]

I think the silver ultra shift levers and silver ultra torque cranks are already pushing that. The compact UT cranks are already at that level.It's my understanding that Campy never made 11sp Ultrashift in silver....everything silver in 11sp is Powershift. Athena11 was available in alloy Ultrashift when it first came out but they were black. It's possible to make silver 11 Ultrashift but the levers have to be changed.

I agree with you in regards to the compact UT cranks in silver, those seem to go for good money and I think the price will only go up.

[thirdgenbird]

Athena ultra torque and ultra shift is better quality than Chorus 10.

Yes, you may be right about the silver UT. They are probably all lever swaps or disc swaps from the silver UT centaur units. Either way, prices are strong when they come up.

I always thought it was funny when people were asking for silver super record 11. The early Athena group was some titanium hardware away from being exactly that. Brakes, shifters, and cranks have gotten cheaper, but the early stuff was the same thing with the carbon replaced with alloy.


I think demand will be lower for these parts, but prices are likely to remain decent because there is a much smaller supply. (Ultrashift and power shift)

[R3awak3n]

I think it will go up a bunch. As mentioned the UT crankset is already going for a lot of money (why did I sell mine!!!!). I think the rest of the groupset will go up in price too, sure the shifters are not UT but some people don't care, hell I have them on my bike and they work great, I am happy with them and they look oh so good.

Its a shame that potenza came out half silver, I dunno what campy is thinking lately really, they could have easily made potenza a all silver group and it would have been pretty nice but the black/silver kinda makes it look cheap to me.

[colker]

Athena ultra torque and ultra shift is better quality than Chorus 10.


Better finish? No. Better shifting? No. Better braking? No.

[colker]

High end is better.
I would much rather have new or old Chorus in whatever color Campagnolo decides than a lower silver group.
Because it´s better.

[thirdgenbird]

Better finish? No. Better shifting? No. Better braking? No.

The internals on an Athena UT shifter are identical to super record and they are more durable than 10spd era g spring levers.

The ramping on Athena 11 speed rings is the same as super record and better than 10spd era.

The first gen Athena skeleton differential brakes were effectively the same calipers as used on the last version of 10spd and current record and super record.

Finish quality is the same as centaur and chorus 10. In the case of the centaur 10 crank, Athena is much better finished.

[R3awak3n]

and to some people the new hoods are more comfortable as well (I used to like the 10 speed ones but now much prefer the 11)

[oldpotatoe]

The internals on an Athena UT shifter are identical to super record and they are more durable than 10spd era g spring levers.

The ramping on Athena 11 speed rings is the same as super record and better than 10spd era.

The first gen Athena skeleton differential brakes were effectively the same calipers as used on the last version of 10spd and still the same ones used on record and super record.

Finish quality is the same as centaur no chorus 10.

I wouldn't say quality is any different. The design between 10s Chorus and UltraShift completely different. UltraShift has nothing that wears out ala shift springs but the internal quality in the shifters are both very high, imho. Early powershift, not so much but 2015+, droopy thumbutton far more durable.

[oldpotatoe]

I think it will go up a bunch. As mentioned the UT crankset is already going for a lot of money (why did I sell mine!!!!). I think the rest of the groupset will go up in price too, sure the shifters are not UT but some people don't care, hell I have them on my bike and they work great, I am happy with them and they look oh so good.

Its a shame that potenza came out half silver, I dunno what campy is thinking lately really, they could have easily made potenza a all silver group and it would have been pretty nice but the black/silver kinda makes it look cheap to me.

I don't think it looks cheap at all but remember, an Ultegra competitor
so it's not going to have the jewelry line quality of SR/Record/Chorus. I think it's far more sophisticated than Ultegra. Take some stuff apart, like the rear der., and it becomes more obvious.

[R3awak3n]

I don't think it looks cheap at all but remember, an Ultegra competitor
so it's not going to have the jewelry line quality of SR/Record/Chorus. I think it's far more sophisticated than Ultegra. Take some stuff apart, like the rear der., and it becomes more obvious.

cheap might have been the wrong word but looks low end, just like veloce did ( silver lever and black shifter. That said I am sure its a nice groupset, I would buy it and I even like the new crank in silver.

It also is much better looking than ultegra imo

[ntb1001]

I've had both 10s Record and 11s Athena silver.
The Record had a very solid feel compared to Athena...but I think that is just the 10s vs 11s. I also have 11s Record and similar comparison.
The Athena is very nice...just don't really care for the graphics on it...I think it could've been engraved and polished for a more refined look.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[Bostic]

I have both Centaur compact and standard 10 speed alloy cranks with UT from 2008. They have the good "silver" rings, not the junky looking stamped rings from the later ones. When these rings finally wear out are they still available to purchase?

I've thought about using either one with the rest of the group consisting of Potenza as I really don't like the look of the alloy Potenza crank.

[d_douglas]

Oh this is bad timing to read this. I JUST sold my silver Athena Ultratorque group with an all alloy Ultrashift ergo set (that was chopped by Campagnolo UK).

I will never own this stuff again, I surmise - enjoy, Sean ;).

I used this stuff briefly on my Speedvagen and it looked pretty amazing, but in the end, I switched back to my older 11spd Chorus stuff. For some reason, the alloy and ISP/fancy paint didn't work together, IMO.

[beeatnik]

Finish quality is the same as centaur and chorus 10. In the case of the centaur 10 crank, Athena is much better finished.

Not sure what you mean by finish quality (same series of Al used?) Athena RDs and brake levers don't have the shine/polish/weight of Chorus/Centaur 10. It's like comparing an iPhone to an LG or a macbook to a dell.

[colker]

It´s just a silver finish fetish.
Design goes beyond that..
The silver in a vintage record group is something special and is not there on Athena or Potenza.
Ultra shift is closer in feel to DT shifting so that you can trim the front derrailleur or upshift several cogs in one move. Power shift has an automatic feel to it and none of the trim/ multiple cog move.
Give me any record part over a low end cute silver part. Chorus is the big boy tool.

[bigbill]

My red GT (Nobilette) has all alloy Athena with a UT crankset. I got it because it was a classic 90's frame that needed silver. I mix it in with my other bikes for miles, the Serotta has a mix of Record/Chorus 11 and the Pegoretti has a brand new Chorus 11 group (4 arm). The Athena takes a few minutes to adjust to with regards to shifting, but otherwise it works great.

I also have one of the early Centaur UT cranksets someone else mentioned and it has the really nice chainrings. It's almost like Campy had bins of Record alloy rings left over and used them up on the first generation UT alloy cranksets. I've had that crankset since late 2006 and it still has the original UT bearings that are like butter.

[thirdgenbird]

Not sure what you mean by finish quality (same series of Al used?) Athena RDs and brake levers don't have the shine/polish/weight of Chorus/Centaur 10. It's like comparing an iPhone to an LG or a macbook to a dell.

Compare a centaur crank arm to Athena. The centaur crank arm is completely unfinished on the back side.

Also keep in mind that there re two versions of most centaur parts. The later rear derailleur isn't finished nearly like the earlier one with the window in the upper knuckle.

It's almost like Campy had bins of Record alloy rings left over and used them up on the first generation UT alloy cranksets.

It's not almost. Look at the part numbers. chainrings are one of many parts that were shared across groups.

It´s just a silver finish fetish.
Design goes beyond that..
The silver in a vintage record group is something special and is not there on Athena or Potenza.
Ultra shift is closer in feel to DT shifting so that you can trim the front derrailleur or upshift several cogs in one move. Power shift has an automatic feel to it and none of the trim/ multiple cog move.
Give me any record part over a low end cute silver part. Chorus is the big boy tool.

Centaur and Athena were both Ultra shift at one time. Not only that, the internal parts were the same part number as Chorus on up.

[FlashUNC]

I think an actuarial table is a pretty decent guide.

Alloy Campy will have something of a shelf-life, especially the non-Record/Super Record variety.

I don't know anyone sub-45 who's got a hankering for the alloy stuff. Its just not ingrained in that nostalgia for younger folks that older riders cling to.

[R3awak3n]

I think an actuarial table is a pretty decent guide.

Alloy Campy will have something of a shelf-life, especially the non-Record/Super Record variety.

I don't know anyone sub-45 who's got a hankering for the alloy stuff. Its just not ingrained in that nostalgia for younger folks that older riders cling to.

I am 32, love the silver stuff. If chorus 10 groupsets were not going for $1000+ I would really consider buying one. That said, I rather have chorus 11 over 10 for practicality reasons but chorus 10 is much better looking.

[FlashUNC]

I am 32, love the silver stuff. If chorus 10 groupsets were not going for $1000+ I would really consider buying one. That said, I rather have chorus 11 over 10 for practicality reasons but chorus 10 is much better looking.

And its $1k-plus being driven by supply (shortage of non clapped out parts) and the demand of many MAMILs who pine for the cool stuff from now 17 years ago.

[thirdgenbird]

I am 32, love the silver stuff. If chorus 10 groupsets were not going for $1000+ I would really consider buying one. That said, I rather have chorus 11 over 10 for practicality reasons but chorus 10 is much better looking.

Add my wife and I to this. I've got two alloy 10 groups and one with silver bits and carbon shifters. My sub-30 wife absolutely refused any carbon/black components. I was lucky she accepted the black wheelset.

[jlwdm]

I had 2008 silver Centaur Ultrashift 10 speed on my CSI. Bought 11 speed silver Athena derailleurs and sent the shifters to Old Potato for conversion to 11 speed. The bike really only sees trainer time but I need to get it on the road this year.

Three years ago I had Joe Young build some silver Archetypes with polished White Industries hubs for the CSI. Unfortunately, they have not been ridden. Maybe this will be their year also.

Jeff

[oldpotatoe]

Gotta add here that all of y'all with pre 2009, 10s, older shape and innards, ERGO..I have all the small parts, springs, shims, levers etc to overhaul/repair these things AND do conversions of 1999 to 10s, 1997 and older to 9s..

Just for info and PM or email

pchisholm172@gmail.com

[Mark McM]

The first gen Athena skeleton differential brakes were effectively the same calipers as used on the last version of 10spd and current record and super record.

Athena skeleton differential brakes were actually more like the previous generation Chorus brakes. Record/Super Record skeleton calipers have always used hidden bolts and ball bearing pivots, whereas the Athena skeleton calipers used exposed bolts and no ball bearings.

[thirdgenbird]

Athena skeleton differential brakes were actually more like the previous generation Chorus brakes. Record/Super Record skeleton calipers have always used hidden bolts and ball bearing pivots, whereas the Athena skeleton calipers used exposed bolts and no ball bearings.

Yes, you are correct. I forgot about that.