TT pacing

[TronnyJenkins]

Hey guys, newb question. I'm in for my first stage race including a TT on Sat. I have scoped out the times and avg speeds from last year, but the weather is forecasting a 15mph headwind for Saturday. Honestly that should work in my favor. Is there a calculator to approximate effort I should try to hold based on FTP?

Would something like this be a good starting point?
http://datacranker.com/cycling-power-zones/

[shovelhd]

Headwind which way? This affects your negative split, assuming it's an out and back. Describe the course features.

[TronnyJenkins]

Headwind which way? This affects your negative split, assuming it's an out and back. Describe the course features.

It's a point to point, 5 miles. I took a screenshot from Strava from a friend's attempt last year, I think it's the same this year.
(I think the Strava segment is 4.3ish)

[Tandem Rider]

Duration makes a big difference, as does when in the stage race it occurs. Wind direction makes less difference in effort than many imagine, you simply go as fast as you can manage. The shorter the TT, the farther above FTP the effort. You need to give us more info to get a good answer.

Ahh, now I see your post.

[Andy sti]

Do you know your threshold? Do you have a PM? If not just go hard but save a bit for the last 5 min then go as hard as you can.

I've done one TT so far this year as part of the Chico stage race. Was 8 miles out and back. I know my threshold and have a PM so I used that to help pace but it's still going as hard as I could for 18 min.

[shovelhd]

Have you done a 20 minute test? If so, I'd pace it just like that except go just a little harder if you can. Whatever you do, don't blow, and save a little bit for the last two minutes. As Tandem says, the wind will be a factor, so set your bike up properly, but you should pace by RPE.

[Tandem Rider]

It's technically downhill, undulating. With a headwind, probably about a 12-13 minute effort. You should be above FTP the entire way, it's too short to go any slower and be competitive. You should hit your effort within 60 seconds and hold it until the last 3-5 minutes when you can go all out.
A big challenge in a lumpy course is to maintain the effort downhill, it's human nature to "rest" from the uphill.
Don't forget to have fun, it's a learning experience, don't fret about where you could have saved time, the race is over.

[TronnyJenkins]

I have a power meter and know my ftp, though I did the 2x8min test. And I feel like it's probably higher now as that was maybe three months ago.

The closest thing I can relate to this is a 3 mile sprint I did on a fast group ride the other day, but that was with a tail wind and I had the group chasing me so extra mental boost.

I've been practicing riding all week in the "position four" aka TT without aero bars position on my Felt road bike. I think I can tell a slight difference but may feel out of control going 30ish mph. May just ride the hoods and bend arms at elbow.

[TronnyJenkins]

It is the first event. Crit later in the day if it doesn't get cancelled due to rain.
I'm bringing my turbo trainer for a half hour ish warm up, maybe a couple of leg opening sprints in there?

[Tandem Rider]

A 12 minute race takes more warmup than a long race. You need to arrive at the line as close to start time as practical, 2-3 minutes max for a short race. You need to be sweating and ready to go hard.

[TronnyJenkins]

A 12 minute race takes more warmup than a long race. You need to arrive at the line as close to start time as practical, 2-3 minutes max for a short race. You need to be sweating and ready to go hard.

Noted. I'm going to have a friend with me to pay attention as the order is called so I can do exactly that. Unless I can just set up the trainer near the start somewhere.

[berserk87]

A great discussion. I do a bunch of TT's each year and I'm always looking to learn and pick up tips. There are some nuggets of wisdom in this thread that are solid.

However you do your warmup, you want to be sure to go into oxygen debt at some point. You don't want to over-fatigue yourself, but getting that initial "hurt" out of the way on the trainer is much easier than feeling it for the first time on the course. That's the only common theme I see about warmups. Ask 10 different guys about their TT warmup and you are likely to get 10 different answers. Also, as noted, the shorter the course, the more aggressive the warmup can be. Hitting the course with your engine kinda hot is good for a short event.

I pace by RPE and also look at average speed. Average speed on the course allows me to project what I will need to do to hit my goal time.

One thing that seems to tempt folks that are new to TT's is going out too aggressively, and blowing up. It's easy to be seduced by the fact that you are at an event and trying to go fast. Really easy. Ask me how I know.

I would recommend staying within yourself for some portion (i.e. first half, third or whatever you choose). If you feel uncomfortable, that's OK, but as ShovelHD said, you don't want to blow up. Blow upon the course, and then you have problems.

At whatever random point you choose, then maybe crank it up and be more aggressive. Perhaps after the halfway point - whatever marker you like.

I've never paced with watts, so I can't say anything about how watts works in combo with RPE. I know that heart rate and RPE can vary greatly, depending on how rested you might be going into the event. I've done events where I felt like death and my HR was, say, 160 bpm. I've done others where I felt great and my HR was 180. If anyone had any experience with how watts jives with RPE, I would be glad to hear about it.

[shovelhd]

I've paced TT's with all three metrics. Your watts may drop as the race goes on but that's when HR and RPE will guide you. Watts are very important in the beginning as your RPE is non existent and HR lags effort.

Make sure you keep the power on as you crest the hills and work very hard to keep your power on down the hills.

[Tandem Rider]

I look the course over before hand, where I can make up time, places to watch out for that can cost time, etc. On important races I will sometimes use landmarks as intermediate checkpoints. Lots of different ways to race a TT and be successful. Most folks try out different tactics and different techniques until they figure it out.

I did TT's for years before bike computers were invented, it was all RPE. Then came Avocet and CatEye computers. Then a few years later came Polar HR monitors. Now we can measure Power as well. The point is that none of these devices will win the race for you.

During the TT, I use RPE and speed as the primary metrics, watching the terrain and wind. I use HR as a sanity check to keep from blowing up. I still feel that RPE is the most important skill to develop, but that takes time.

The most important thing to do now is absorb what you can from here and other experienced racers. On race day, try to do the the best race you can. Do not try to analyze your performance right after the race, you have a crit in a few hours, you need to recover and prep. It's more important to have fun and race well than scrutinize what you did or didn't do when you need to focus on the next race. Do your analysis after the weekend is over.

Stage races are a blast. Good luck and have fun!

[shovelhd]

Once again, Tandem is right on. Stage races are about rest more than anything. It's about turning the switch on and off. Maximizing rest between stages. Get off your feet, take a cat nap. Stay hydrated, go to the bathroom. Carb up. Turn the amp down from 11 and get some sleep. This can be really hard to do.

[mjalder2]

You might try out Best bike split. I've heard good things. https://bestbikesplit.com/

[ultraman6970]

Not too much experience in road TT but i do in the track, and based in those 5 miles (8km) IMO the distance is too short to try to measure yourself 100% with the pace. Looks like the profile is fairly flat... warm up really well... pace the uphills as hard as you can because that's the only place where you can make a difference with the rest, because anybody can go downhill if you are fairly trained... and pretty much wait for the best.

The main problem of short TT is that if you measure yourself too much you can lose time and you end up the thing with something still in the tank. And unless you have a terrain that force you to be more tactical than a brute you have to go for it, distance is too short.

[John H.]

Biggest things for riding a good tt.
1.) Pace appropriate for distance.
2.) Moderate start- too many riders ruins their tt with a 900 watt start and 1 minute at 1.5x FTP or more.
3.) Make your best power in the hardest sections of the course.
Of times spanking it too hard in the tailwind can leave you fatigued when you need to put power down in the headwind.

Oh- and good position is a given. A head twitch, braking too early, or taking a drink will cost you time over 5 miles.
Know every inch of a 5 miles course- pre-ride or drive.

Hey guys, newb question. I'm in for my first stage race including a TT on Sat. I have scoped out the times and avg speeds from last year, but the weather is forecasting a 15mph headwind for Saturday. Honestly that should work in my favor. Is there a calculator to approximate effort I should try to hold based on FTP?

Would something like this be a good starting point?
http://datacranker.com/cycling-power-zones/

[drewskey]

Watts are very important in the beginning as your RPE is non existent and HR lags effort..

This!

[redir]

TT's have always been my strong point. I've worn yellow twice in two stage races thanks to TT's and won many others in omniums and so on... ok enough of my qualifications ;) My unqualified advice? Get rid of the computers and don't worry about numbers. a 5 mile TT is balls to the wall the whole way. The problem with power numbers, excellent training tool no doubt, is that you limit yourself to those numbers. In race situation almost everyone pulls off higher numbers than expected so why slow down to your perceived numbers? Also hill and headwinds can be used to your advantage. Many riders will slack on hills and be fought back from head winds. That's a good time to really push it and make up some time.

[bigbill]

It's short, hydrate, warm up at least 30 minutes, keep moving and stretching while you're in line for your start, launch out of the start, get up to speed quickly, push the effort until you feel like puking and/or breathing through your ears, back off a smidge from that effort. Done.

[Ti Designs]

What good time trialists learn over years of fast solo riding is how to increase or decrease the power output in a controlled manner. That's something the human body doesn't do well because you adjust for the current output level, anything below that your body doesn't register. Good time trialists have found methods to raise or lower output levels by small amounts, which keeps them from wildly overshooting their power target for any given second of the time trial. The loss from spikes and the fatigue they cause makes all the difference.

[TronnyJenkins]

Thanks to all the recommendations and info.

I did OK, I should say am happy with, my first time trial.
Came in 5th of 24, :45 behind leader. I think all or all but one ahead of me had an actual TT bike. I did leave some in the tank because I screwed up and forgot to start my Garmin hence didn't know what distance I was at so I just started hammering! If I had to do it again I think I could have shaved off :20-30, but again I'll take it.

And it helped me to a 4th overall for the weekend :-)
Considering the TT itself was my third USAC event ever, I'm hopeful.