New means new - or maybe not

[shovelhd]

I've been building up a travel bike lately and I've sourced some specific parts from eBay. I have had issues with two of them.

First was a Ritchey WCS Logic headset, listed as New, pictured with the box. Purchased from a vendor who should be very familiar to most people here, plenty of positive feedback. Everything was new except for the crown race, which had obvious marks from the fork race removal tool. I wrote them, and we compromised on a settlement.

Second was a FD clamp band adapter, listed as New, pictured with the box. The details said "includes items shown". Purchased from a four figure FB seller. The clamp band had marks from installation. The shim for 28.6mm was missing, and I need that. I wrote him, with no reply. I'm going to have to initiate a return. That costs me money I should not need to spend.

eBay has two "New" condition categories:

New: "A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging (where packaging is applicable). Packaging should be the same as what is found in a retail store, unless the item is handmade or was packaged by the manufacturer in non-retail packaging, such as an unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full details."

New other (see details): "A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections."

In both cases, they should not have been listed under either New category.

Is this a trend, or just my bad luck?

[yakstone]

Not just your bad luck.
Some folks seem to not understand what "NEW" means.

Very similar to the misuse of "MINT".

[JWDR]

Not you at all. I bought a bike for my daughter listed as new that had been ridden for enough miles to square off the rear tire.

Multiple pictures of the bikes condition and the idea of having to refund my entire purchase price plus having to pay for return shipping was enough to get the seller to refund a significant chunk of cash to make it right.

[MattTuck]

I'm not a frequent user of eBay (used it maybe 3 times total), but my impression has always been that it is a digital equivalent of a flea market. Namely, most of the sellers are always trying to pull a fast one, or make a quick buck.

The situation you describe just confirms my existing bias. I realize that not everyone on eBay is like this, but it is my default expectation when I have to use the site. I bought a previous generation Aliante off eBay two years ago. Small scratch, small tear in the surface... about as good as you can hope for from that site.

[false_Aest]

That headset....

probably came off of the Ritchey I returned.

joking/not joking.

[beeatnik]

"new take off," as in, installed but never purchased by a human.

[ceolwulf]

I'm not a frequent user of eBay (used it maybe 3 times total), but my impression has always been that it is a digital equivalent of a flea market. Namely, most of the sellers are always trying to pull a fast one, or make a quick buck.

I use it a fair bit. I don't think that's quite accurate, but it certainly applies to a lot of sellers. The biggest change though since I started with eBay (user since 2000 ... great I feel old now (already did so whatever)), is that it used to be a place for people to sell their old stuff, or stuff that wasn't necessarily old but they just weren't using any more, a sort of improved garage sale. And it was great for that, so much so that that's the reputation it still has. But now probably at least 95% of the listings on eBay (less in the cycling category, to be fair) are new items being sold by businesses. The nature of the site hardly even resembles what it started as.

[John H.]

Someone had some parts here advertised as "take-offs".
Then he said "parts have been ridden 40 miles".
To me take offs are new parts that have been taken off and not ridden.
Parts that have been ridden are "used parts".

[tuscanyswe]

Someone had some parts here advertised as "take-offs".
Then he said "parts have been ridden 40 miles".
To me take offs are new parts that have been taken off and not ridden.
Parts that have been ridden are "used parts".

I think thats how 99% see it as well.

[cmg]

"except for the crown race, which had obvious marks from the fork race removal tool" so if it wasn't for the marks you wouldn't have been able to tell it was used or just installed? the actual race surface wasn't marked? could of came off a floor model. what would it matter it the part that doesn't effects the bearings performance has a scratch? did the ad say untouched, never installed, never removed from the box, virgin parts....... :D

[shovelhd]

"except for the crown race, which had obvious marks from the fork race removal tool" so if it wasn't for the marks you wouldn't have been able to tell it was used or just installed? the actual race surface wasn't marked? could of came off a floor model. what would it matter it the part that doesn't effects the bearings performance has a scratch? did the ad say untouched, never installed, never removed from the box, virgin parts....... :D

Did you read the eBay descriptions? What is it about New that you don't understand?

[Bentley]

I would open a case with EBay. I've bought and sold plenty, if the item is not as described its pretty much a slam dunk and the seller pays shipping both ways. Generally you don't even have to return the item (obviously it depends on item value).

I know folks here are not big fans, but you get pretty good service from EBay, especially as the buyer

Ray


I've been building up a travel bike lately and I've sourced some specific parts from eBay. I have had issues with two of them.

First was a Ritchey WCS Logic headset, listed as New, pictured with the box. Purchased from a vendor who should be very familiar to most people here, plenty of positive feedback. Everything was new except for the crown race, which had obvious marks from the fork race removal tool. I wrote them, and we compromised on a settlement.

Second was a FD clamp band adapter, listed as New, pictured with the box. The details said "includes items shown". Purchased from a four figure FB seller. The clamp band had marks from installation. The shim for 28.6mm was missing, and I need that. I wrote him, with no reply. I'm going to have to initiate a return. That costs me money I should not need to spend.

eBay has two "New" condition categories:

New: "A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging (where packaging is applicable). Packaging should be the same as what is found in a retail store, unless the item is handmade or was packaged by the manufacturer in non-retail packaging, such as an unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full details."

New other (see details): "A new, unused item with absolutely no signs of wear. The item may be missing the original packaging, or in the original packaging but not sealed. The item may be a factory second or a new, unused item with defects. See the seller's listing for full details and description of any imperfections."

In both cases, they should not have been listed under either New category.

Is this a trend, or just my bad luck?

[beeatnik]

Someone had some parts here advertised as "take-offs".
Then he said "parts have been ridden 40 miles".
To me take offs are new parts that have been taken off and not ridden.
Parts that have been ridden are "used parts".

A few weeks back, I took out a $13000 anniversary bike out for test ride.
Guys at the shop were super stoked about it since it came with 2015 Super Record. I'm one of the few Campy riders in the area so they wanted me to share in their enthusiasmz. Don't tell anyone but I took off on a 45 min test ride (prolly 15 miles). Well, I told them I was going to be gone for half an hour when I walked out the door. That was 2 months back and the bike is still on the sales floor. I'm guessing it's easily at 50 miles now. Here's the rub: bikes aren't cars. And a test ride is not always a test ride. Short story long, I still consider that $13K bika a new bike...tho the parts may be, um, worn or less than new.

Maybe cats should use demo instead of "take off."

[John H.]

Right, But if you took the parts off to sell them would you describe them as new take-offs?
I wouldn't.

A few weeks back, I took out a $13000 anniversary bike out for test ride.
Guys at the shop were super stoked about it since it came with 2015 Super Record. I'm one of the few Campy riders in the area so they wanted me to share in their enthusiasmz. Don't tell anyone but I took off on a 45 min test ride (prolly 15 miles). Well, I told them I was going to be gone for half an hour when I walked out the door. That was 2 months back and the bike is still on the sales floor. I'm guessing it's easily at 50 miles now. Here's the rub: bikes aren't cars. And a test ride is not always a test ride. Short story long, I still consider that $13K bika a new bike...tho the parts may be, um, worn or less than new.

Maybe cats should use demo instead of "take off."

[shovelhd]

I'm not talking about forum classified descriptions, flea market descriptions, or CL descriptions. I'm talking about very specific eBay descriptions shown above. If a fork race was installed, how does that make it "A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging"? It doesn't.

Yeah, I could open a case with eBay. I'd rather work it out with the seller, and I'd much rather people be OPEN and HONEST instead of shady.

[ojingoh]

I'm not talking about forum classified descriptions, flea market descriptions, or CL descriptions. I'm talking about very specific eBay descriptions shown above. If a fork race was installed, how does that make it "A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging"? It doesn't.

Yeah, I could open a case with eBay. I'd rather work it out with the seller, and I'd much rather people be OPEN and HONEST instead of shady.

I feel you. I use eBay all the time and I'm seeing more "New" items that were "I used it and didn't like it, so it's more or less new - and GL to you if you need warranty help or support."

[Bentley]

I agree with trying to work it out, but I guess I understood the seller was "radio silent" so that was why I suggested opening a case. Also you can agree to pay shipping, but if its not as described its on the seller, unless you let him off the hook.

Your post reads like you have been taken advantage of, if that's the case then open a case, otherwise just work it out with the seller.

Best and good luck resolving this

Ray

[rccardr]

I use eBay all the time, and I mean all the time. Been a member for 18 years.

Yes, there are sellers out there that take advantage, but the vast majority are just trying to move freight. Not bad guys, not con artists, just plain folk trying to move freight.

Your headset and clamp could easily be items that were sold previously and returned, after having been installed, like the marked crown race, or examined and found to be the wrong size, like the clamp band. Sure, in a perfect world, these guys would examine every returned part to ensure that it is perfectly as described. Sadly, we do not live in a perfect world, we live in a world where these guys are moving freight in order to make a living on twenty dollar parts.

Buy stuff from me, it is as described. That is why I have a hundred percent rating after eighteen years. Buy stuff from someone moving freight, and you may not be as satisfied.

[shovelhd]

I have a 100% rating after 19 years. So there :hello:

The point being, don't sell something as new when it's not new.

[jlwdm]

I have had good transactions on ebay. About 10 days ago I bought a pair of "new" red Sperry Topsiders. There wasn't a photo of the soles - here is how they arrived.

http://i1134.photobucket.com/albums/m617/6ridge9/Sperry%20Soles.jpg (http://s1134.photobucket.com/user/6ridge9/media/Sperry%20Soles.jpg.html)

The Seller said no returns, and I told him for sure there would be a return as he was a scam artist. He eventually paid for return shipping and my money was refunded.

Jeff