2015 chorus RD setup

[R3awak3n]

this is not my month, first the disc brake setup (which is actually working pretty decent now for some mysterious reason - ah actually putting the crappiest pads might have done the trick).

I got a brand new chorus 2015 group. All is installed and was starting to tune it all up. I have set up many records, chorus and last one I did was athena. No problems but this one is not giving me the same results. Lets say this, its not the components, its somethign I am doing wrong so I am not saying the new stuff is worst.

So my problem is in the upper gears, they over shift it seems. The chain goes but stay above the gears for a split second before dropping down. This happens on the top 3 gears. To me this means less cable tension so I adjust it and helps it (doesnt solve it) but then the setup has problems shifting the smaller first 2 gears because there is not enough cable tension.

THe cassette is a shimano ultegra 11-28. Should work just fine (I have my athena shifting a 11-32 cassette flawlessly). WHat could I be doing wrong? the limit screws all seem fine and the clicks are fine.


Also, what is that new screw on the new derailleur (that hits the derailleur tab in the back) for? I think I have seen it in non campy derailleur (I think my shimano XT had it). Anyways, not that it matters because I stripped it. I dunno why I wanted to turn it but I did and tried to and stripped the damn thing.

[AngryScientist]

gotta make sure that there is very little resistance in the shift cable, clean routing and gentle bends are key.

also - can you verify that the RD hanger is perfectly aligned?

also - cable end prep - gotta be nice and square/cleanly cut. if they are not seating "home" in the stops, it'll make the shifting imprecise and wonky.

chain length - make sure it's not too long, RD spring tension in the smaller gears needs to be something more than zero.

just a few things to look at.

[tuscanyswe]

Do you a larger than normal gap between top pulley and sprocket when in latgest cog?

[R3awak3n]

Do you a larger than normal gap between top pulley and sprocket when in latgest cog?

no, it seems about right but I have changed it to be a bigger gap and all the way to not being able to go any further in and still same shifting.


@angry - I have not checked the RD alignment (don't have the tool), if I can't figure this out I will get one because I have wanted one for a while (by eye looks fine but I know thats not good enough)

Chain length is good, definitely not too long but do need to check the cables and how straight I cut the housing, I think should be fine but I should double check.

[booglebug]

Thinking it's in your cable, as mentioned a non square housing end can cause cable tension to be inconsistent.

[R3awak3n]

Thinking it's in your cable, as mentioned a non square housing end can cause cable tension to be inconsistent.

will check. Will be dealing with this all day tomorrow.


Also, thanks guys for dealing with my ineptitude :o

[beeatnik]

gotta make sure that there is very little resistance in the shift cable, clean routing and gentle bends are key.

also - can you verify that the RD hanger is perfectly aligned?

also - cable end prep - gotta be nice and square/cleanly cut. if they are not seating "home" in the stops, it'll make the shifting imprecise and wonky.

chain length - make sure it's not too long, RD spring tension in the smaller gears needs to be something more than zero.

just a few things to look at.

yep, all the above (that chain length is CRITICAL).

in my experience, (3 of 5 groups) 2015 Revolution RD's have been notoriously difficult/finicky to set up. word on the street was that the first batches had issues with out of spec cages.

r3awak3n, don't feel too bad about the experience. at least you didn't destroy a frame chasing a perfect install. my shop snapped off my frame's rear dropout trying to align the hanger, while troubleshooting. dudes weren't sure if the chain or the alignment was the issue.

[R3awak3n]

Damn beeat, that blows.

Well I have all day tomorrow to mess with it some more. Will triple check the chain lenght. Now my question is, if its the rd, how will I know.

[djdj]

You may not need this, but there is a video on campagnolo.com that tells you how to dial in everything.

[oldpotatoe]

gotta make sure that there is very little resistance in the shift cable, clean routing and gentle bends are key.

also - can you verify that the RD hanger is perfectly aligned?

also - cable end prep - gotta be nice and square/cleanly cut. if they are not seating "home" in the stops, it'll make the shifting imprecise and wonky.

chain length - make sure it's not too long, RD spring tension in the smaller gears needs to be something more than zero.

just a few things to look at.

Great ideas to look at and make sure the teeny brass washers are in the lever body..wee things the der housing pushes against. If one is turned sideways.and cable rubs ahainst it..instant drag. The 2mm allen nolt at the top of the rear der? Limit screws.

[R3awak3n]

so I checked the cables, they all nice and straight. Chain looks good. This is pretty frustrating. Sometimes I almost get it and then I keep playing with it and its all ruined lol. There is something weird going on for sure because I never had this many problems.

I guess I need to get the derailleur alignment tool and check that.

[R3awak3n]

Great ideas to look at and make sure the teeny brass washers are in the lever body..wee things the der housing pushes against. If one is turned sideways.and cable rubs ahainst it..instant drag. The 2mm allen nolt at the top of the rear der? Limit screws.

not those, I am talking about the philips head that touches the frame, it makes the derailleur go up and down.

[OtayBW]

I wouldn't expect it from a new group, but a bad shifter could cause that overshifting and hesitation problem over a selected gear range. I've had that problem on an older system that was corrected by rebuilding the shifter. FWIW....

[R3awak3n]

I wouldn't expect it from a new group, but a bad shifter could cause that overshifting and hesitation problem over a selected gear range. I've had that problem on an older system that was corrected by rebuilding the shifter. FWIW....

not what I want to hear. this is becoming a nightmare. Just can't get it right and going to give up for now. Here is a little video that shows exactly the problem. I got it to shift a bit better than this but still rough, specially on the top end (you can see how the chain goes way up before dropping down into the gear.


http://tinypic.com/r/2dbw37m/9

Help!

[beeatnik]

Damn beeat, that blows.

Well I have all day tomorrow to mess with it some more. Will triple check the chain lenght. Now my question is, if its the rd, how will I know.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=138734&start=15#p1224328

As I mentioned in my last post, the cage of all 11s RDs has always had a designed-in twist - it's been part of the design since 2009, so that in and of itself is absolutely *not* the issue.

Also as I mentioned, there does appear to be an infrequent issue in some production units where the derailleur cage is not sitting correctly oriented relative to the lower knuckle but the cause of this problem is not clear - it does not appear to be a batch problem, or unique to a specific product range.

If you find yourself affected by this issue, from the UK Service Centre perspective, if you are in the UK, PLEASE send us the dearilleur here at Velotech, or go to a Campagnolo ProShop who have direct access to us here at Velotech ... we / the ProShop need to have a copy of the proof of purchase with the unit in order for us to examine it under warranty - but we will look at it and repair / replace as appropriate.

The initial assessment will be visual, then in greater detail using a jig that we have constructed based around a pillar mounted accurately perpendicular to a surface plate, faced off and drilled / tapped to accept the fixing bolt of the RD. This jig allows us to determine that the RD turns around the top pivot bolt in a plane perpendicular to the centre-line of that bolt. Finally we'll assemble the RD to a system that we know to be 100% accurately aligned and do a shifting check.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=140861&start=30

[R3awak3n]

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=138734&start=15#p1224328

As I mentioned in my last post, the cage of all 11s RDs has always had a designed-in twist - it's been part of the design since 2009, so that in and of itself is absolutely *not* the issue.

Also as I mentioned, there does appear to be an infrequent issue in some production units where the derailleur cage is not sitting correctly oriented relative to the lower knuckle but the cause of this problem is not clear - it does not appear to be a batch problem, or unique to a specific product range.

If you find yourself affected by this issue, from the UK Service Centre perspective, if you are in the UK, PLEASE send us the dearilleur here at Velotech, or go to a Campagnolo ProShop who have direct access to us here at Velotech ... we / the ProShop need to have a copy of the proof of purchase with the unit in order for us to examine it under warranty - but we will look at it and repair / replace as appropriate.

The initial assessment will be visual, then in greater detail using a jig that we have constructed based around a pillar mounted accurately perpendicular to a surface plate, faced off and drilled / tapped to accept the fixing bolt of the RD. This jig allows us to determine that the RD turns around the top pivot bolt in a plane perpendicular to the centre-line of that bolt. Finally we'll assemble the RD to a system that we know to be 100% accurately aligned and do a shifting check.

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=140861&start=30

thanks for that beeatnik. I am not experience noisy drivetrain just the jumpy gears. I am going to check alignment and if that is good then I will contact campy and see what they have to say.


edit - well front derailleur is setup. ok that was aweosme. easy and shifts crazy good, wow, no trim on the big gear needed. nice.

however noticed that when I am on Big/Big or even Big in front and 1 gear down in the back, there is noise and drag on the crank. I mean, obviously the chain line is compromised but I never felt this much drag when in these gears.

[moobikes]

Check your cassette spacers. Or sub in a wheel with a Campy cassette you know to be good and see if it the shifting improves.

Not too long ago, there was another forum member with a similar problem and the issue turned out to be on the cassette.

One or two of the spacers between the smallest cogs had burrs or molding flash that weren't cleaned up at the factory, and that led to incorrect spacing between those cogs. The difference between correct and bad spacing is tiny, so take a close look at those things.

[R3awak3n]

Check your cassette spacers. Or sub in a wheel with a Campy cassette you know to be good and see if it the shifting improves.

Not too long ago, there was another forum member with a similar problem and the issue turned out to be on the cassette.

One or two of the spacers between the smallest cogs had burrs or molding flash that weren't cleaned up at the factory, and that led to incorrect spacing between those cogs. The difference between correct and bad spacing is tiny, so take a close look at those things.

put in a campy cassette (11-29) on a diff wheelset. Problem was similar unfortunately

[beeatnik]

Try a shimano 11-28. Seriously.

edit: yikes, just noticed you've tried a shimano cassette.

which, frame, btw?

[R3awak3n]

Try a shimano 11-28. Seriously.

edit: yikes, just noticed you've tried a shimano cassette.

which, frame, btw?

Rob English.

[beeatnik]

oooooooh, time to take this to Weight Weenies.

the hanger is integrated que no?

[R3awak3n]

oooooooh, time to take this to Weight Weenies.

the hanger is integrated que no?

yes it is.

will post on WW soon. Thanks for the help man!

[beeatnik]

I can totally empathize and if all the following is sorted:

cassette spacers
pulley w/ 7mm of cogs
correct chain length
aligned hanger
chain stay length within campy's requirements

then, THEN, it's gotta be that metal hanger. chets are super flexy on the weight weenie steel platforms. on my steel custom, we had to align it about 6x because it kept flexing back out alignment.

Campy fun, man.

I'm gonna be all about 10s now. Serio.

[R3awak3n]

I can totally empathize and if all the following is sorted:

cassette spacers
pulley w/ 7mm of cogs
correct chain length
aligned hanger
chain stay length within campy's requirements

then, THEN, it's gotta be that metal hanger. chets are super flexy on the weight weenie steel platforms. on my steel custom, we had to align it about 6x because it kept flexing back out alignment.

Campy fun, man.

I'm gonna be all about 10s now. Serio.


so that was your problem? just kept going out of alignment? And once you aligned the hanger (I mean after 6 f$*@$#* times) then you all good?

man, I have 2 other bikes with 11 speed, no problems what so ever

[beeatnik]

well, that and everything else above. i know....:crap:

[lhuerta]

yes it is.

will post on WW soon. Thanks for the help man!

If u have not properly aligned ur der hanger, which is likely the culprit of issue u r experiencing, I don't see the point of taking this to yet another forum. Align ur hanger with proper tool and along 4 axis. Also post pics of ur chain length, with der in big/big position.

[R3awak3n]

If u have not properly aligned ur der hanger, which is likely the culprit of issue u r experiencing, I don't see the point of taking this to yet another forum. Align ur hanger with proper tool and along 4 axis. Also post pics of ur chain length, with der in big/big position.

Why I have posted anywhere else yet. Have the tool coming in on monday, will see what the deal is and hoping that it is indeed the problem.


here is a pic in big/big -

I measured it with by putting chain in big chainring and largest cog, however took an extra link out because chain when in small/small was too close (did not seem like enough tension).

http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r522/r3awak3n/IMG_4990.jpg

[djdj]

Ouch. That der looks like it's about to busticate.

[R3awak3n]

looks worst in the picture. Like I said, I used the same method I always use but had to take a link out because when in small small, the bottom pulley chain was super close to the top pulley chain.

[beeatnik]

Why I have posted anywhere else yet. Have the tool coming in on monday, will see what the deal is and hoping that it is indeed the problem.


here is a pic in big/big -

I measured it with by putting chain in big chainring and largest cog, however took an extra link out because chain when in small/small was too close (did not seem like enough tension).

http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r522/r3awak3n/IMG_4990.jpg

Those S3 chainstays....

Chain wrap looks pretty good, actually.

[lhuerta]

YIKES!!! Chain is way too short. Add links and then adjust B-screw (screw at pulley cage pivot...what Campy references as H-screw in their instructions) to lengthen distance between upper cog and cassette...which will also take up some slack. Then, per above, check hanger alignment.

[R3awak3n]

Chain lenght does not seem that bad to me but it will be something to consider if the hanger is not out of alignment.

H screw is adjusted properly, less than 7mm.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Is it me or does that particular dropout style put the RD mounting bolt about as far forward as the rear axle? I think I've noticed this before on a few customs.

I mean you can get fine shifting from an axle all the way back in a horizontal dropout, but it almost looks like the dropouts on that bike should have been rotated a touch forward. I'd like to see a pic of the rear dropouts with the bike sitting on the ground.

[R3awak3n]

I can take a picture of the bike on the ground.


Anyways, added a couple of links to the chain. I knew that was not the cause of bad shifting but why not give it a try. Shifting exactly the same but it does look better when in big/big.

[oldpotatoe]

YIKES!!! Chain is way too short. Add links and then adjust B-screw (screw at pulley cage pivot...what Campy references as H-screw in their instructions) to lengthen distance between upper cog and cassette...which will also take up some slack. Then, per above, check hanger alignment.

Don't agree..that's a BIG lowest gear. AND please don't add links to non-virgin chain plates(already had pin pushed into it)..auto broken chain but I don't think that chain is too short.

[R3awak3n]

Don't agree..that's a BIG lowest gear. AND please don't add links to non-virgin chain plates(already had pin pushed into it)..auto broken chain but I don't think that chain is too short.

Good to know you don't think its too short, I didn't think so either.

Its a KMC chain, I just added an extra link with another quick link as an experiment, I would not run it like this but I thought was worth the try since I had an extra quick link around. Its now back to where it was.

[Ralph]

if that bike was on my work stand...I would go back to basics. And if it shifted before.....doubt it's frame. Sounds to me like the stop screw or the tension adjustment is slightly off, and while it shifts OK on small cogs, the amount off stacks up as you get to bigger cogs, and over shifts. After checking that....would make sure the upper pulley is as close to the big cog as you can get it, without bumping on big cog...using the B screw. And that screw turns backward from some other RD's. Screw in (turn right) moves it closer on my Campy RD. Or adjust stop screw so chain is closer to drop out...try that. 1/4 turn is a lot.

That's assuming no cable or housing issues, etc. It could be several of these. I have noticed that on my bikes with Campy 10, which shift perfect, when chain in on the big ring and smallest rear cog....the cable is not very tight....almost loose actually, unlike the FD cable which is fairly tight. BTW...in above pic...big to big....chain length looks Ok to me.

[beeatnik]

It's that hanger.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[R3awak3n]

if that bike was on my work stand...I would go back to basics. And if it shifted before.....doubt it's frame. Sounds to me like the stop screw or the tension adjustment is slightly off, and while it shifts OK on small cogs, the amount off stacks up as you get to bigger cogs, and over shifts. After checking that....would make sure the upper pulley is as close to the big cog as you can get it, without bumping on big cog...using the B screw. And that screw turns backward from some other RD's. Screw in (turn right) moves it closer on my Campy RD. Or adjust stop screw so chain is closer to drop out...try that. 1/4 turn is a lot.

That's assuming no cable or housing issues, etc. It could be several of these. I have noticed that on my bikes with Campy 10, which shift perfect, when chain in on the big ring and smallest rear cog....the cable is not very tight....almost loose actually, unlike the FD cable which is fairly tight. BTW...in above pic...big to big....chain length looks Ok to me.

I bought the frame used and I assume was shifting fine. I don't think it is the frame. I also don't think its tension or limit screws. All looks fine and I have spent over 3 hours on it, I have tried every combination. Something else is messed up. The H screw is also correct and distance btw pulley and cassette is 7mm or so.

I also double checked all the cable ends, all nice and straight. Also just like your bike when in small/small there is barely any tension on the cable. I really think its either derailleur hanger or a faulty RD.

[R3awak3n]

ok, so hanger is perfectly aligned horizontally and vertically (It wasn't before so I fixed that).

Shifting is still crap, there is 0 improvement. At this point I am out of options. I have checked everything, everything seems fine. I have done this many many times without a hitch and this is a nightmare.

Its either the derailleur thats busted, or the shifter. I might buy a new derailleur to test it because I think its the derailleur (if I find out its the derailleur then I will try to warranty the current one or try to send it back to ribble).

only thing I have no checked is the chain but what are the chances.

[Black Dog]

Did you check the shifter? I re-read the thread and did not see any mention of you checking the little bolts the hold the shifter guts. You have to remove the shifter to check.

[R3awak3n]

Did you check the shifter? I re-read the thread and did not see any mention of you checking the little bolts the hold the shifter guts. You have to remove the shifter to check.

not sure what you mean by this? what bolts?

[Black Dog]

When you take the shifter off you will see a wee little Alan bolt on the back side of the shifter on the inside area where the band clamp attaches etc. 2 or 3mm in size. If not for tight it can effect shifting. There may be a second bolt on the other side of the shifter guts that you can access by removing the brake blade. Old patato will know exactly what I am doing a poor job of conveying here. Reach out to him and ask for some clairity. He has mentioned this before in relation to 11 speed shifting gremlins. I feel your pain on this; I would be loosing my mind trying to solve this.

[giordana93]

not sure if this was tried, but have you done an all new cable? (and/or new housing?) even a tiny little kink hidden in the line somewhere will be enough. I would try all new housing and cable just to eliminate that variable. chain length is fine. rear housing loop maybe a hair long but hard to tell from pic, esp. with that extreme cross chain

[R3awak3n]

@Black Dog - Thank you for the clarification! It is indeed driving me crazy. Specially since I spent all this money on a new groupset (ever first new group I buy) and its been a nightmare

@giordana93 - Have not tried a new cable but I have looked at the cable and looks perfect, no kinks, nothing.


anyone have an extra 2015 RD that I can try out :D?

[choke]

Black Dog is referring to the two with the arrows...

[R3awak3n]

thanks choke!

[Black Dog]

Black Dog is referring to the two with the arrows...

Thank you indeed. I was replying from my phone and had no ready access to the diagram and was hurried and not being entirely articulate. These are the bolts that I was refering to.

[R3awak3n]

its worth checking that they are tight. As of right now I will do anything to get this damn group set working. I will get to the bottom of this.

crazy thing is, every gear shifts, not much noise but the chain goes up, stays up for a second too long and then slaps down.

[ultraman6970]

Just sometihng to look into, did you check the cable spooler??? Campagnolo redisgned the cable spooler at some point and well you could have the old one.

What happens is that the head of the cable is not too deep into the spooler and when you are releasing the tension the head gets off the hole and you have weird shifting, the shift gets like delayed, or you wiggle the lever and shift right... but is when you go from a larger cog to a smaller cog just like you are saying and not in all the cassette only in some of them.

Just check where the head is into the spooler in the cogs you are having problems with. If the head is not seated right you will see like scratches in the plastic around the spooler, the work around is just dremel the head a little bit so it sits deeper or getting a new cable spooler. I did change the cable spooler and problem solved in a chorus 11 i had, took me a while to nail the problem. weird shifting, and from what you say it might be what Im saying.

Here is a thread that have some missing pictures but you can read in better english than mine about the cable spooler, this dude swapped the whole thing but later realized the problem was the cable spooler...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/campagnolo/centaur-10-shifting-issues-resolved-finally-205558.html

[oldpotatoe]

its worth checking that they are tight. As of right now I will do anything to get this damn group set working. I will get to the bottom of this.

crazy thing is, every gear shifts, not much noise but the chain goes up, stays up for a second too long and then slaps down.

Loose bolts makes the shifting less 'clicky', and perhaps the thumb button won't 'engage' but it won't have the effect you are seeing. I'm guessing bent der hanger as well.

[oldpotatoe]

Just sometihng to look into, did you check the cable spooler??? Campagnolo redisgned the cable spooler at some point and well you could have the old one.

What happens is that the head of the cable is not too deep into the spooler and when you are releasing the tension the head gets off the hole and you have weird shifting, the shift gets like delayed, or you wiggle the lever and shift right... but is when you go from a larger cog to a smaller cog just like you are saying and not in all the cassette only in some of them.

Just check where the head is into the spooler in the cogs you are having problems with. If the head is not seated right you will see like scratches in the plastic around the spooler, the work around is just dremel the head a little bit so it sits deeper or getting a new cable spooler. I did change the cable spooler and problem solved in a chorus 11 i had, took me a while to nail the problem. weird shifting, and from what you say it might be what Im saying.

Here is a thread that have some missing pictures but you can read in better english than mine about the cable spooler, this dude swapped the whole thing but later realized the problem was the cable spooler...

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/campagnolo/centaur-10-shifting-issues-resolved-finally-205558.html

That was on 2009/10 levers and was a running change. These are 2015 levers.

[OtayBW]

I'm sticking with my 'bad shifter' hypothesis (whether that comes from the bolt or some other e.g., bad g-spring, etc. cause). Symptoms are identical to what I experienced a while back and the shifter rebuild fixed it completely. Still, for a new shifter, it does seem unlikely....

[R3awak3n]

Loose bolts makes the shifting less 'clicky', and perhaps the thumb button won't 'engage' but it won't have the effect you are seeing. I'm guessing bent der hanger as well.

Derailleur hanger was a bit bent, not a lot but significantly. I fixed it, its now perfectly aligned and shifting still real bad.

[R3awak3n]

I'm sticking with my 'bad shifter' hypothesis (whether that comes from the bolt or some other e.g., bad g-spring, etc. cause). Symptoms are identical to what I experienced a while back and the shifter rebuild fixed it completely. Still, for a new shifter, it does seem unlikely....

It is possible its the shifter. Its either that or the derailleur And only reason i think its the derailleur is because I have read a few report of bad derailleurs on 2015.

[Black Dog]

I'm sticking with my 'bad shifter' hypothesis (whether that comes from the bolt or some other e.g., bad g-spring, etc. cause). Symptoms are identical to what I experienced a while back and the shifter rebuild fixed it completely. Still, for a new shifter, it does seem unlikely....

These shifters have no springs; don't wear out per say, and are not rebuildable, the shift mechanism is a unit that can be replaced.

[OtayBW]

These shifters have no springs; don't wear out per say, and are not rebuildable, the shift mechanism is a unit that can be replaced.Really? 2015 saw Chorus change to a non-rebuildable shifter, huh? I assume the replacement can't be cheap. In any event - sounds like something is wonky with the shifter....

[djdj]

Are your cables already taped to the bars? If so, it may be that the cables are bent at an unacceptable angle.

Different chain (Campag, not KMC) and re-cabling (use the full length of the rear housing that Campag provides) would be the next cheapest and easiest way to diagnose.

[R3awak3n]

Are your cables already taped to the bars? If so, it may be that the cables are bent at an unacceptable angle.

Different chain (Campag, not KMC) and re-cabling (use the full length of the rear housing that Campag provides) would be the next cheapest and easiest way to diagnose.

I am definitely going to try new cables because its cheap and why not right? The cables are taped already but easy to untape and I have tried them untaped and still same problem, its not the cable angle, I have a bike with similar routing and this is very close.

as far as chain, I have used KMCs all my life and they always worked flawlessly, I don't think a chain would give this erratic problems. That said I do have a new chain coming in that I bought just to have and may install it

[oldpotatoe]

These shifters have no springs; don't wear out per say, and are not rebuildable, the shift mechanism is a unit that can be replaced.

They are rebuildable. Easy to take 'em apart and 'fix' altho not much to go wrong, as mentioned. I buy shift assemblies, and strip them for parts.

For the OP, make sure the teeny brass washers in the lever, that the end of the der housing sits against, are there and also not turned sideways, causing drag on the cable.

[AngryScientist]

before you go too far out of your mind with this, if the shifting is pretty close, which it sounds like it is - you may want to just go ahead and ride the bike for a few hundred miles as-is. it's not necessary the engineering answer, but sometimes the parts need to just "settle in". new chain, new cassette, cables and housings, it is indeed possible that once they all wear in a bit, the shifting will settle down.

campy-10, for example, may have shifted great out of the box, but was even better after 500 miles, when it was "broken in".

there - that's the no-cost solution to get you on the bike right now. it just may work too.

[thirdgenbird]

Really? 2015 saw Chorus change to a non-rebuildable shifter, huh? I assume the replacement can't be cheap. In any event - sounds like something is wonky with the shifter....

It's not a 2015 change. G springs disappeared way back when the lever shape changed.

[Black Dog]

They are rebuildable. Easy to take 'em apart and 'fix' altho not much to go wrong, as mentioned. I buy shift assemblies, and strip them for parts.

For the OP, make sure the teeny brass washers in the lever, that the end of the der housing sits against, are there and also not turned sideways, causing drag on the cable.

Well, not rebuildable in the way that the previous gen was intended; parts (shifter internals) sold as a unit not individual spares. Sorry if I was not clear on that. There are more than enough bad campy myths out there and I don't want to add to the pile. As I said in my post, nothing to really break or wear out, better than previous gen. :beer:

[R3awak3n]

They are rebuildable. Easy to take 'em apart and 'fix' altho not much to go wrong, as mentioned. I buy shift assemblies, and strip them for parts.

For the OP, make sure the teeny brass washers in the lever, that the end of the der housing sits against, are there and also not turned sideways, causing drag on the cable.

checked that and they are there and not turned sideways. So whats the probability that it could be a bad shifter old p? and any way I could know if it was a bad shifter?


yesterday it occured to me, what if ribble sent me 2014 shifters. So I went check and nope these are 2015

[R3awak3n]

before you go too far out of your mind with this, if the shifting is pretty close, which it sounds like it is - you may want to just go ahead and ride the bike for a few hundred miles as-is. it's not necessary the engineering answer, but sometimes the parts need to just "settle in". new chain, new cassette, cables and housings, it is indeed possible that once they all wear in a bit, the shifting will settle down.

campy-10, for example, may have shifted great out of the box, but was even better after 500 miles, when it was "broken in".

there - that's the no-cost solution to get you on the bike right now. it just may work too.


Everything shifts, no missed gears or anything like that. Totally rideable but when you spend $800 on a groupset you really want it to work ok you know. But I might take it for a ride tomorrow and see how it goes. I have had it when it works great on the stand but terrible on the road so it would be funny if it worked great on the road but not on the stand.




also, I want to go ahead and THANK EVERYONE for your help!

[ultraman6970]

+1 ... and they are a lot easier to work with than the old 10 speed record ones.

They are rebuildable. Easy to take 'em apart and 'fix' altho not much to go wrong, as mentioned. I buy shift assemblies, and strip them for parts.

For the OP, make sure the teeny brass washers in the lever, that the end of the der housing sits against, are there and also not turned sideways, causing drag on the cable.

[oldpotatoe]

checked that and they are there and not turned sideways. So whats the probability that it could be a bad shifter old p? and any way I could know if it was a bad shifter?

yesterday it occured to me, what if ribble sent me 2014 shifters. So I went check and nope these are 2015

'Bad' ERGO shifter'..never seen this in the 16 or so years I have been mucking with ERGO..Now, 'some' will say I'm just a Campag-fan boy, and I am but I haven't seen an ERGO lever not work out of the box.

The shift innards are really simple. Nothing can be installed backwards, it's just simple. Without seeing it, just really hard to say what's up.

[R3awak3n]

'Bad' ERGO shifter'..never seen this in the 16 or so years I have been mucking with ERGO..Now, 'some' will say I'm just a Campag-fan boy, and I am but I haven't seen an ERGO lever not work out of the box.

The shift innards are really simple. Nothing can be installed backwards, it's just simple. Without seeing it, just really hard to say what's up.

thanks Old P. Wanna fly out to NYC and take a look ? :beer::eek:

I will keep everyone updated if I find the solution, not giving up on this. Also to add something positive, the new 2015 FD is freaking fantastic.

[thirdgenbird]

I have not read the whole thread but has a new wheel and/or cassette been tried? I know ultegra is the same spacing, but let's just rule it out if it hasn't.

I had a record 10 bike that shifted poorly. I went down a similar path and about lost my mind. I eventually swapped the wheel and it worked. I ended up talking the cassette off the first wheel, cleaned each cog/spacer, reinstalled the cassette making sure to torque it properly, and life was good again. I bought the wheel cassette on and assume lock ring torque was not correct.

[Black Dog]

Everything shifts, no missed gears or anything like that. Totally rideable but when you spend $800 on a groupset you really want it to work ok you know. But I might take it for a ride tomorrow and see how it goes. I have had it when it works great on the stand but terrible on the road so it would be funny if it worked great on the road but not on the stand.




also, I want to go ahead and THANK EVERYONE for your help!

I find that with 11 speed the tolerances in terms of cable tension are so tight that on the stand things work great but when you get on the bike and load the frame there is enough deflection in some frames that that a little cable tweak needs to be made to compensate for increase in cable tension. This is more the case for my steel frames and less so for my Ti frame. Hopefully some break-in will help with all of this. You are the unlucky 0.01% that has a bad initial set up experience.

On a side note I wonder if the RD hanger geometry fits into the acceptable range that campy specs. 11 speed systems from the 3 makers seem to be sensitive to hanger geometry.

[R3awak3n]

I have not read the whole thread but has a new wheel and/or cassette been tried? I know ultegra is the same spacing, but let's just rule it out if it hasn't.

I had a record 10 bike that shifted poorly. I went down a similar path and about lost my mind. I eventually swapped the wheel and it worked. I ended up talking the cassette off the first wheel, cleaned each cog/spacer, reinstalled the cassette making sure to torque it properly, and life was good again. I bought the wheel cassette on and assume lock ring torque was not correct.

yes, I put a 11-29 campy chorus cassette in on another wheel. Same problem. Also tried this wheel on my other bike, shifting was great.

[thirdgenbird]

yes, I put a 11-29 campy chorus cassette in on another wheel. Same problem. Also tried this wheel on my other bike, shifting was great.

Well darn...

[R3awak3n]

Well darn...

its a nightmare :butt:

ahah

[ColonelJLloyd]

On a side note I wonder if the RD hanger geometry fits into the acceptable range that campy specs. 11 speed systems from the 3 makers seem to be sensitive to hanger geometry.

That's what I was saying on page 3. The RD mounting bolt looks so far forward.

[R3awak3n]

and I forgot to post that pic.


bike on the ground. sorry its on the small gear but its all I have now. Also chain was too long there, I took some links out.


http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r522/r3awak3n/IMG_4971%202.jpg

[ColonelJLloyd]

and I forgot to post that pic.


bike on the ground. sorry its on the small gear but its all I have now. Also chain was too long there, I took some links out.


http://i1170.photobucket.com/albums/r522/r3awak3n/IMG_4971%202.jpg

Doesn't look all that far forward with the bike on the ground. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[R3awak3n]

Doesn't look all that far forward with the bike on the ground. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ahha I know, looks fine to me as well.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯ indeed

[thirdgenbird]

Goodness that bike is hot. It may not shift, but I think it's my favorite bike on the forum.

its a nightmare :butt:

ahah

Totally off topic but reading that comment got this song stuck in my head:
https://youtu.be/28YFesvcLS8

[R3awak3n]

ahaha its true, bike doesnt work but its a great bike to look at. I guess it could be worst :D

[oldpotatoe]

Can you show a closer pic of how the der cable is routed thru the fixing bolt, plate on the rear der?

[R3awak3n]

Can you show a closer pic of how the der cable is routed thru the fixing bolt, plate on the rear der?

will do when I get home.

but exactly like this - https://coresites-cdn.factorymedia.com/rcuk/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/P1070503.jpg

[merlincustom1]

I recently installed the new Chorus 11. Like the OP, I paid attention to every detail, took my time, and had a great result. I'm curious as to the ultimate solution here. I feel your pain.

[R3awak3n]

I recently installed the new Chorus 11. Like the OP, I paid attention to every detail, took my time, and had a great result. I'm curious as to the ultimate solution here. I feel your pain.

so yours is working great or not so great? confused about your post

[oldpotatoe]

so yours is working great or not so great? confused about your post

I just installed a 2015 Record/Chorus mix on a Time and it couldn't have gone easier. 'Something' is amiss..I won't fly out to NY but you can bring the bike to me in CO and I'll make it happy. :)

[Tony]

I had a similar issue when converting to a 1X10, 11-42 wide range Sunrace cassette. I could not find a compromise, one small adjustment to get into the 32t and it would not drop down quickly into the 15, 13, 11t. I tried many of the recommendations here. I replaced the new XT chain with a equivalent Sram chain and it made the difference, not perfect but much better.

[merlincustom1]

so yours is working great or not so great? confused about your post
Sorry, I had a great result.

[R3awak3n]

Decided I was done with the bike on the stand and took it for a quick ride yesterday. The shifting was not all that bad, was actually pretty good so I am going to call it a day for now. It will probably settle in and work great. No noise on any of the gears which is great.

Still need to put more time on it because just went round the block a couple of times. I will be stumped if it works great on the road and not on the stand but I would be totally ok with that.


Now that new campy B-Screw. What was campy thinking about making it out of aluminum and not greasing it. I was trying to play around with it (it puts your derailleur back a bit, most people will not use it but some frames require it apparently if the hanger is not within campy spec. Funny that they don't mention this bolt at all in the tech manual). Anyways I tried to turn it and immediately stripped the bolt. I got the bolt out now and will replace with a steel bolt.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Now that new campy B-Screw. What was campy thinking about making it out of aluminum and not greasing it. I was trying to play around with it (it puts your derailleur back a bit, most people will not use it but some frames require it apparently if the hanger is not within campy spec. Funny that they don't mention this bolt at all in the tech manual). Anyways I tried to turn it and immediately stripped the bolt. I got the bolt out now and will replace with a steel bolt.

Well, that's a bummer.

I don't agree that most people will not need to adjust a B-screw. I might say that most people don't, but the B-screw helps get the upper pulley in the right position relative to the smallest cog and that distance is obviously different with 11t, 12t or 13t smallest cog so it should be adjusted for best setup.

[lookout2015]

Now that new campy B-Screw. What was campy thinking about making it out of aluminum and not greasing it. I was trying to play around with it (it puts your derailleur back a bit, most people will not use it but some frames require it apparently if the hanger is not within campy spec. Funny that they don't mention this bolt at all in the tech manual). Anyways I tried to turn it and immediately stripped the bolt. I got the bolt out now and will replace with a steel bolt.

My first encounter with it went the same way, right down to the stripping and replacing :crap:

[R3awak3n]

Well, that's a bummer.

I don't agree that most people will not need to adjust a B-screw. I might say that most people don't, but the B-screw helps get the upper pulley in the right position relative to the smallest cog and that distance is obviously different with 11t, 12t or 13t smallest cog so it should be adjusted for best setup.

well, campy works a bit different and they only ever had what they call an H screw but for 2015+ they added this new B screw. Still, dumb move making an aluminum bolt, what are they thinking. No joke, the bolt is made of butter, I could not even get a turn out of it before it just melted.

[R3awak3n]

My first encounter with it went the same way, right down to the stripping and replacing :crap:

seriously disappointed with campy on this new RD right now, even if 99% of the people won't use it, don't put a freaking aluminum bolt that will strip on your derailleur, what is that going to save anyone?

[ultraman6970]

Sorry for the question, so which was the problem??? You say that all is smooth, what did you do?

[ColonelJLloyd]

I read it more like, "it's not perfect, but I'm tired of effing with it and I'd rather ride "meh" shifting Campy than not ride Campy at all". ;)

[ultraman6970]

:)

[R3awak3n]

ahahha.


Its more like, shifts mediocre on the stand but on the road it shifts pretty good. Not as good as I am used to but I decided to let it all brake in and see how it goes.

I will surely update this in a few miles and see what the deal is.

[OtayBW]

I'm sorry to hear that the shifting is performing better. I was getting used to looking forward to this thread. :D

[R3awak3n]

I'm sorry to hear that the shifting is performing better. I was getting used to looking forward to this thread. :D

I will keep it going as long as I can lol.

I am still put a brand new shift cable on the bike tonight, why not, one last try. I am OCD would like to have it shift perfectly on and off the stand.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I can only imagine the comments that would be in this thread if the trouble was with a non-Campy group. Amirite? :cool:

[R3awak3n]

I can only imagine the comments that would be in this thread if the trouble was with sram. Amirite? :cool:


ftfy

[beeatnik]

I can only imagine the comments that would be in this thread if the trouble was with a non-Campy group. Amirite? :cool:

but sramz wouldnt generate the pics below

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=142391&sid=ab31728c50a6371aaa3c7a27251b8a05&start=75

[djdj]

R3:

1697936007

[oldpotatoe]

but sramz wouldnt generate the pics below

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=142391&sid=ab31728c50a6371aaa3c7a27251b8a05&start=75

geeez lewezzzz, it's just not that complicated..on any group..

Not sure what's up with OP..wonder if it IS the der hanger specs..

[R3awak3n]

Could be but I am not going to go crazy like that guy, that said that thread is amazing and the bike turned out great

[Tony]

I will keep it going as long as I can lol.

I am still put a brand new shift cable on the bike tonight, why not, one last try. I am OCD would like to have it shift perfectly on and off the stand.

I know it sounds unlikely, but changing to a different chain can made a difference. I read through this tread, maybe I missed it but have you tried a different chain other than a KMC.

[R3awak3n]

I know it sounds unlikely, but changing to a different chain can made a difference. I read through this tread, maybe I missed it but have you tried a different chain other than a KMC.

no but I have tried 2 KMCs. Maybe campy chain would be better (maybe?!?!?) but I have only used KMCs all my life, on campy drivetrains. 8 speed, 9 speed, multiple 10 speed, couple of 11 speeds and always been fantastic.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Current chain is not gold (could be the problem right there). Get this (https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126230017?gclid=Cj0KEQiAuonGBRCaotXoycysvIMBEiQAc xV0nNTiEcwfhGoSozMxhlEZ1E_ubhrE0KeScTWnBkH0zn4aAhs V8P8HAQ).

Also, you need to make sure and soak it in Simple Green right out of the box, wash with Dawn, rinse 7 times with warm water then coat each individual pivot point with one drop of extra virgin olive oil.

[R3awak3n]

Current chain is not gold (could be the problem right there). Get this (https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126230017?gclid=Cj0KEQiAuonGBRCaotXoycysvIMBEiQAc xV0nNTiEcwfhGoSozMxhlEZ1E_ubhrE0KeScTWnBkH0zn4aAhs V8P8HAQ).

Also, you need to make sure and soak it in Simple Green right out of the box, wash with Dawn, rinse 7 times with warm water then coat each individual pivot point with one drop of extra virgin olive oil.

I do hate how sticky chains come out of the box but I never degrease em because that is just a waste of time.

I think that is way the shifting sucks, no gold.