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oldpotatoe
02-28-2017, 08:45 AM
More, input from Spec-Ed.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/02/specialized-pressuring-riders-use-disc-brakes-yes-no

Adam Hansen, "“The other teams, they all have the option to use them but no one is,” Hansen said. “I don’t want to be picking on sponsors or anything, but this is Specialized riders that are using them… From the industry side, I do think the bike manufacturers are pushing for it. They have brought it out. I know the fans they want to ride what the pros are riding, we’re not riding disc brakes and all the top line bikes [are] now with disc brakes, so in that sense I do know the manufacturers do want the riders to use disc brakes.”

Of course, but again, I think the rider's push back is more about the UCI listening to them rather than just 'brakes'..

colker
02-28-2017, 09:05 AM
I think it´s a pretty cool situation: all the experts telling you disc brake bikes are better. And the fastest guys saying they are not.
I like difference. I like choice. I like older tech prevailing.

Dave B
02-28-2017, 09:08 AM
So who wins? Are the companies going to push the policies or are the riders finally going to have some actual leverage?


I wonder if big bike companies are going to target us fat guys who need discs to stop. :D

R3awak3n
02-28-2017, 09:29 AM
this is getting dumb though. I get it, companies want to make money but there is nothing wrong with that (how do people think those races are happening, crap has to get sold).

that said its a shame that it has to be either all disc or all rim. Why not use the best tool for the job. On a flat stage there is no point having disc, hell, on most stages there is no point but sometimes disc would come in handy.

I don't buy the dangers of disc. Its like a fighter jet pilot, his job is dangerous and that is it. These guys are going down mountains are 100km/h but a disc is too dangerous? give me a brake. People have said it before here, the chain ring will do worst damage.

But, the same reason why I have no interest on a road disc brake bike, I guess the pros don't either. I bet the mechanics do not either because they are just a pain int he ass.


in the end, there will be disc brakes in pro cycling, its just going to happen and in 5 years no one will be talking about this. Some people here will have disc brake road bikes and speak highly of them as if nothing ever happened.

colker
02-28-2017, 09:45 AM
this is getting dumb though. I get it, companies want to make money but there is nothing wrong with that (how do people think those races are happening, crap has to get sold).

that said its a shame that it has to be either all disc or all rim. Why not use the best tool for the job. On a flat stage there is no point having disc, hell, on most stages there is no point but sometimes disc would come in handy.

I don't buy the dangers of disc. Its like a fighter jet pilot, his job is dangerous and that is it. These guys are going down mountains are 100km/h but a disc is too dangerous? give me a brake. People have said it before here, the chain ring will do worst damage.

But, the same reason why I have no interest on a road disc brake bike, I guess the pros don't either. I bet the mechanics do not either because they are just a pain int he ass.


in the end, there will be disc brakes in pro cycling, its just going to happen and in 5 years no one will be talking about this. Some people here will have disc brake road bikes and speak highly of them as if nothing ever happened.

Hansen says disc bikes are heavier and less aero. They can brake all they want w/ rim brakes. So, why should they ride a slower bike? They are told to be faster , not slower.

bmeryman
02-28-2017, 09:51 AM
These guys are going down mountains are 100km/h but a disc is too dangerous? give me a brake.

Great pun, intended or not.

Regarding the disc/no disc debate, I'll only add the reminder that if you can skid your tires, your brakes are strong enough. I say this with the understanding that there's validity to the arguments that variable conditions and hand fatigue affecting brake modulation can sometimes necessitate a brake that could overpower your tire. Disc brakes don't have to be the answer all the time, but they are sometimes. It's just difficult to be impartial sometimes.

Tony
02-28-2017, 09:53 AM
this is getting dumb though. I get it, companies want to make money but there is nothing wrong with that (how do people think those races are happening, crap has to get sold).

that said its a shame that it has to be either all disc or all rim. Why not use the best tool for the job. On a flat stage there is no point having disc, hell, on most stages there is no point but sometimes disc would come in handy.

I don't buy the dangers of disc. Its like a fighter jet pilot, his job is dangerous and that is it. These guys are going down mountains are 100km/h but a disc is too dangerous? give me a brake. People have said it before here, the chain ring will do worst damage.

But, the same reason why I have no interest on a road disc brake bike, I guess the pros don't either. I bet the mechanics do not either because they are just a pain int he ass.


in the end, there will be disc brakes in pro cycling, its just going to happen and in 5 years no one will be talking about this. Some people here will have disc brake road bikes and speak highly of them as if nothing ever happened.

Well said, totally agree with all outside of not having interest in road disc brakes.

ergott
02-28-2017, 10:01 AM
If someone wants to hand me a Venge Disc I'll be happy to ride the crap out of it. I'll even tell other people they should.

R3awak3n
02-28-2017, 10:09 AM
Hansen says disc bikes are heavier and less aero. They can brake all they want w/ rim brakes. So, why should they ride a slower bike? They are told to be faster , not slower.

they are indeed heavier but it is not hard to make a disc brake bike that hits the UCI weight min.

I will give it that the wheels will always be heavier and rotational weight is a penalty but I don't think it would be too much of a penalty. Also everyone will be using the same kind of bike so its a moot point really.

Aero, maybe butt aero bikes are also heavy.

chiasticon
02-28-2017, 10:44 AM
they are indeed heavier but it is not hard to make a disc brake bike that hits the UCI weight min.for pros it's not hard. for us, it's not either, as long as we have the cash. with rim brakes, you can generally hit the minimum much cheaper; i.e. with a mid-level group and without having to go carbon everything.

regardless, the article is mostly just humorous to me, because Hansen is insinuating that Boonen is a shill and a liar. they probably won't race alongside each other much any more, if at all, so I guess it's no biggie. and maybe they don't get along anyway, who knows?

FlashUNC
02-28-2017, 10:55 AM
I think it´s a pretty cool situation: all the experts telling you disc brake bikes are better. And the fastest guys saying they are not.
I like difference. I like choice. I like older tech prevailing.

How the fastest guys use their brakes and how the average MAMIL uses them are two completely different scenarios.

They're also, by and large, using different wheels. Carbon tubs =/= carbon clinchers.

FlashUNC
02-28-2017, 10:57 AM
*dupe post*

Mark McM
02-28-2017, 11:03 AM
How the fastest guys use their brakes and how the average MAMIL uses them are two completely different scenarios.


This is very true. However, MAMILs have shown that they are easily swayed by image and perception, and often desire to ride "pro" equipment, regardless of whether that equipment is really suitable for them or not. Hence, in order to get MAMILs to buy new equipment, the bicycle manufacturers have to get the pros to use it first.

Erik_A
02-28-2017, 11:19 AM
---

echelon_john
02-28-2017, 11:32 AM
"What's a Cat 2? It's a Cat 3 who doesn't brake for corners."

MattTuck
02-28-2017, 11:35 AM
discs rule, calipers drool!

oldpotatoe
02-28-2017, 04:53 PM
This is very true. However, MAMILs have shown that they are easily swayed by image and perception, and often desire to ride "pro" equipment, regardless of whether that equipment is really suitable for them or not. Hence, in order to get MAMILs to buy new equipment, the bicycle manufacturers have to get the pros to use it first.

Post of the farging day...

oldpotatoe
02-28-2017, 04:54 PM
If someone wants to hand me a Venge Disc I'll be happy to ride the crap out of it. I'll even tell other people they should.

I'd sell it and buy a 'proper' bike:p

oldpotatoe
03-01-2017, 07:50 AM
More, input from Spec-Ed.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/02/specialized-pressuring-riders-use-disc-brakes-yes-no

Adam Hansen, "“The other teams, they all have the option to use them but no one is,” Hansen said. “I don’t want to be picking on sponsors or anything, but this is Specialized riders that are using them… From the industry side, I do think the bike manufacturers are pushing for it. They have brought it out. I know the fans they want to ride what the pros are riding, we’re not riding disc brakes and all the top line bikes [are] now with disc brakes, so in that sense I do know the manufacturers do want the riders to use disc brakes.”

Of course, but again, I think the rider's push back is more about the UCI listening to them rather than just 'brakes'..

Sums it up, IMHO
"“With the Equipment Commission we tried in every way the path of dialogue through the repeated letters and meetings we had,” said Gianni Bugno, President of the CPA. “Now we feel compelled to act in a stronger way to be heard. As we have always said we are not against the disc brakes but against the non-implementation of the security measures that the majority of the riders asked before making the tests on the disc brakes in the races.”

Mark McM
03-03-2017, 02:28 PM
World Champion Peter Sagan has stated that he is against a disc brake mixed peloton:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagan-against-disc-brakes-in-a-mixed-peloton/

When asked by Cyclingnews if he will use disc brakes in Strade Bianche, he said: "I don't think I'll use them…"

When asked to explain why, he added: "There's a reason. I agree with using disc brakes if everyone in the peloton uses them - not only a few people."

Asked if it was for safety reasons, he said: "No, not for safety. Safety left cycling a while ago..."

Sagan later confirmed to Cyclingnews that the risk of losing time - and perhaps a race - due to a slow wheel or bike change was his biggest concern.

So, there might be an advantage to choosing rim brakes over disc - that advantage being faster wheel changes. In which case, the only way for the UCI to level the playing field would be to mandate that all riders use disc brakes. Somehow, I don't see the UCI as actually beyond enforcing a rule like this - if there was enough money in it for them.

ergott
03-03-2017, 02:35 PM
I kind of want to see a pro tour race on a course like D2R2.
:eek:

oldpotatoe
03-04-2017, 05:54 AM
World Champion Peter Sagan has stated that he is against a disc brake mixed peloton:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagan-against-disc-brakes-in-a-mixed-peloton/



So, there might be an advantage to choosing rim brakes over disc - that advantage being faster wheel changes. In which case, the only way for the UCI to level the playing field would be to mandate that all riders use disc brakes. Somehow, I don't see the UCI as actually beyond enforcing a rule like this - if there was enough money in it for them.

yup...

MattTuck
03-29-2017, 01:05 PM
And, there you have it. Wonder when we'll see wide spread adoption of standards such that this is not a concern.

However, as Specialized PR manager Sean Estes told CyclingTips Tuesday, the possibility of a puncture, and neutral support unable to quickly swap in a new wheel due to tight variances around the disc rotor, is too great a concern at one of pro cycling’s most important races.

Mark McM
06-12-2017, 02:44 PM
From Cycling News:

Spanish federation bans disc brakes at nationals (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/spanish-federation-bans-disc-brakes-at-nationals/)


Plus an observation: I've been watching the recent stage races (Giro, TOC, Dauphine, TdS), and I've seen only one or two riders using disc brakes, even in the rain and on stages which finish on long, steep descents.

livingminimal
06-12-2017, 03:42 PM
Hansen's take is one that is ensconced in an almost impenetrable bubble.

the real split that's happening is people are no longer giving as much of a **** over what the pros are riding.

I don't see a lot of all-road/gravel pros out there in NBC Sports Gold. Doesn't seem to be slowing down sales in the genre.

Reality is most people cannot relate in any real sense to UCI level bike racing.

Also reality: most people, the vast, vast majority of people that ride bikes do not give a **** about professional bike racing. Never have, and never will.

The sport at the professional level has enough trouble propping itself up financially (and in terms of reputation, etc) to stay afloat.

Bike manufacturers barely need it to stay viable.