OT: Retiring in Delaware: Newark/Wilmington/other?

[vav]

All right peoples, my parents are very tired of living in northeastern NJ right across Manhattan (very high property taxes, congested 24/7, etc etc...)
With my sister also in NJ and us in RI ( 4 grandkids total) they want to stay relatively close and are strongly considering a move to DE. They are city-oriented folks and they take advantage of all NYC has to offer as they go there frequently on the weekends. They also travel abroad twice a year and take advantage of the proximity to newark airport. My dad still works and my mom is retired. They are concerned that once my dad retires (2017 or 18 at the latest when he turns 70) won't be able to continue to do the same. Their property tax sits at 14K right now with the house paid for. Also, he drives a company car so no insureance/gas/maintenance, etc and of course once he retires they'll need a car (mom does not drive)
Anyways, what does the forum collective wisdom thinks of DE and what it would offer?
Thanks in advance for your input

[sailorboy]

Brandywine valley seems like a nice spot. I rode there for a day with Rich Roat of House industries fame, and loved it. Rolling hills, lots of old-timey farms and homesteads, and the Dupont money seemed to be spread around the area at one time leaving interesting sights to see now. Wilmington may not boast the cultural attractions of NYC, but you're a short train ride away for a day trip if you can't find what you want. Not far from there is Lancaster county which has its well-known charm.

[biker72]

Not a solution to your question but I've been griping about paying $1.5K in property taxes here in Texas.

[cmg]

Not a solution to your question but I've been griping about paying $1.5K in property taxes here in Texas.

same here, $1600 tax IS TOO MUCH. move them to someplace cheaper with great health care.

[kramnnim]

My wife is from Newark so I have spent some time up there, but I've always lived in rural areas so Newark is congested to me...

[paredown]

I started a similar thread a while back. Since posting we have looked at a couple of houses in Wilmington--specifically in the Ardens (google this--it is a hoot), and more recently we have been browsing on line in the Chadds Ford area of PA.

Old thread is here:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=180000

At the time of posting, we had looked online at some suburbs of Philly--and then took another look at Wilmington, where we have friends.

We liked Wilmington--and can see ourselves moving there if I can only stay healthy long enough to expedite finishing the renovation of the house we are in.

The NY/NJ/CT is too expensive to retire in, unless you made great decisions when you were younger and/or managed to get a gold-plated pension plan. Even then, I'm not sure what you get for your obscene property taxes. Ours are up to over $14,000/year and for that we get ****ty roads, overpaid cops and substandard schools.

[Buzz Killington]

My father retired to the Kendal Crosslands community in Kennet Square and enjoys it. Close to Longwood Gardens, DuPont estate, Brandywine museum. Also when I visit I can hit the MTB trails in the area that are lots of fun.

The services and staff at Kendal have been great. Might not be the cheapest option....

[Hank Scorpio]

I don't know if this will help or harm but they should really go visit DE before making up their minds. I have vacationed a few times in Ocean City/Rehobeth and I don't think I would want to stay there full time. My Aunt and Uncle also were thinking along the same lines. They currently live in Mendham but with both kids gone they were thinking of relocating for retirement. They visited several areas throughout DE and decided that it wasn't for them either.

Another option would be moving out of Bergen/Essex and further south. We are in Morris and pay less than half that in taxes. Somerset could also be another option, just stay out of Hunterdon or they would be in the same position that they are in now. Obviously I don't know any of the particulars of their current house so that would effect things quite a bit too.

[jlwdm]

Not a solution to your question but I've been griping about paying $1.5K in property taxes here in Texas.

How can you pay so little in TX? A $100,000 house would be $2,500+or- in most areas.

I wish I paid that a month.

Jeff

[fuzzalow]

How can you pay so little in TX? A $100,000 house would be $2,500+or- in most areas.

I wish I paid that a month.

Jeff

No Texas state and city income taxes, right?

In the area of braggin' or, alternately, whinging about high levels of taxation, I doubt that anywhere has got New York, especially New York Metro, beat. People wanna live here - and the government (NOT 'gummint) knows it.

[Hilltopperny]

There are some areas of upstate NY that have reasonable taxes, but they are a 2 to 3 hour drive from NYC and do not have the same kind of amenities. My area has reasonably cheap homes with land comparitively speaking to downstate. My taxes are also quite reasonable for NY. 14k a year can afford you a nice big home with some land up this way.

[kramnnim]

I don't know if this will help or harm but they should really go visit DE before making up their minds. I have vacationed a few times in Ocean City/Rehobeth and I don't think I would want to stay there full time.

My grandparents-in-law live in Rehoboth, it is quite unlike the Wilmington area. They live in a nice, quiet neighborhood, away from the messy outlet store area, but you still have to deal with outlet store+beachgoer traffic on 1, not pleasant...

[fuzzalow]

There are some areas of upstate NY that have reasonable taxes, but they are a 2 to 3 hour drive from NYC and do not have the same kind of amenities. My area has reasonably cheap homes with land comparitively speaking to downstate. My taxes are also quite reasonable for NY. 14k a year can afford you a nice big home with some land up this way.

$14K a year? You mean $1.4K ($1,400.00) don't you? Ripples of taxation concentricity emanating, in effect, from ground zero at the Empire State Building outwards.

$14,000/year is entry level for combined state & school district taxes in Nassau County - which is about 15 miles from the Empire State Building. And additional NYS income taxes to be levied on top of that.

Martha Stewart's farm in Bedford, Westchester County I could only guess at, maybe $100K/year in taxes?

[Hilltopperny]

$14K a year? You mean $1.4K ($1,400.00) don't you? Ripples of taxation concentricity emanating, in effect, from ground zero at the Empire State Building outwards.

$14,000/year is entry level for combined state & school district taxes in Nassau County - which is about 15 miles from the Empire State Building. And additional NYS income taxes to be levied on top of that.

Martha Stewart's farm in Bedford, Westchester County I could only guess at, maybe $100K/year in taxes?

Fuzz I have a modest house and 2 acres with a 15 year mortgage with taxes escrowed in for right around 6k a year. Just a few miles down the road from the southern adirondack park and great riding right from my front door. It works for me, but it's not NYC type of living.

My father in law just sold his parents place in Westchester county last year because the taxes were around 15k a year. My 14k a year estimate was for a mortgage on a nice home, acreage and taxes combined.

[mcfarton]

My parents are currently retired in milton de. The first year they paid 2200 in taxes on their home. Every year they live there from now on they pay 600 in taxes. Delaware has a lot of benefits for retirement.
That being said Delaware is different. Spend some time there and see if they like it. I suggest renting for a year then choose.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[jlwdm]

No Texas state and city income taxes, right?

In the area of braggin' or, alternately, whinging about high levels of taxation, I doubt that anywhere has got New York, especially New York Metro, beat. People wanna live here - and the government (NOT 'gummint) knows it.

Yes, Texas hits residents hard on property taxes, but no income taxes. Property tax rates in TX are over 4 times what I paid in AZ.

Jeff

[R3awak3n]

$14K a year? You mean $1.4K ($1,400.00) don't you? Ripples of taxation concentricity emanating, in effect, from ground zero at the Empire State Building outwards.

$14,000/year is entry level for combined state & school district taxes in Nassau County - which is about 15 miles from the Empire State Building. And additional NYS income taxes to be levied on top of that.

Martha Stewart's farm in Bedford, Westchester County I could only guess at, maybe $100K/year in taxes?


14k does not sound crazy at all. My place upstate (near woodstock) is about 9k a year in taxes. 6 acres and 4 bedroom farm house.

and they don't even pick up my trash

[Tandem Rider]

14K isn't crazy?? HS, one of the reasons I just sold my house is because the taxes went to $6600 and I have a custom home on over an acre of woodland backing up to DNR, 1/2 mile from a MUT, last house on the right.

[572cv]

For retirees, Delaware does not charge the portion of property taxes which support schools. Sensible.

[biker72]

How can you pay so little in TX? A $100,000 house would be $2,500+or- in most areas.

I wish I paid that a month.

Jeff

Maybe I'm getting the Old Fart discount.
My house and property are appraised at $150K. I'm in a hot area so houses around me are selling for 200K+.

I double checked my numbers. I paid exactly $1663.77 in property and school taxes for 2016.

Edit:
I am getting the Old Fart discount...:) My school taxes have been frozen back to when I turned 65. My younger neighbors are paying a lot more.

[fuzzalow]

Yes, Texas hits residents hard on property taxes, but no income taxes. Property tax rates in TX are over 4 times what I paid in AZ.

Jeff

Death and taxes. The municipality has to get revenue from somewhere so if there's no state tax on income, as in TX, they will get revenue from higher property taxes. AZ has a state tax on income so they need not tax real estate as heavily. Somebody always pays. You were pullin' my leg on this one, right?

Tax revenue obtained through taxing real property owners versus a blanket income tax on all earned wages is a progressive tax structure. I guess from the vantage of civic equity that is a fairer method of apportioning the tax burden.

14k does not sound crazy at all. My place upstate (near woodstock) is about 9k a year in taxes. 6 acres and 4 bedroom farm house.

and they don't even pick up my trash

Yeah well you ignored the "entry level" preface on my comment about the amount of $14k as an annual property tax. The county I used to own a home in - Nassau County NY (13th wealthiest county in the USA last time I checked ;)). 6 acres as you have in Woodstock is not common in Nassau County - that is considered a lot of land. Taxes on that much property in the Town of North Hempstead would be at least $50k. Fox News' Bill O'Reilly lives in the town I lived in and he doesn't have 6 acres.

[alancw3]

For retirees, Delaware does not charge the portion of property taxes which support schools. Sensible.

i actually had to research this as it seemed too unbelievable to me. so what i found was that seniors can get a $500 reduction in the school tax portion of their real estate taxes. but they have to live in delaware for three years before being eligible. that makes much more sense to me.

[jlwdm]

Death and taxes. The municipality has to get revenue from somewhere so if there's no state tax on income, as in TX, they will get revenue from higher property taxes. AZ has a state tax on income so they need not tax real estate as heavily. Somebody always pays. You were pullin' my leg on this one, right?

...

Pullin' your leg on what? Just facts.

Jeff

[shovelhd]

i actually had to research this as it seemed too unbelievable to me. so what i found was that seniors can get a $500 reduction in the school tax portion of their real estate taxes. but they have to live in delaware for three years before being eligible. that makes much more sense to me.

This would never fly in MA. The MTA wouldn't let it out of committee.

[AngryScientist]

...Rank
State
Effective Real-Estate Tax Rate
Annual Taxes on $176K Home*
State Median Home Value
Annual Taxes on Home Priced at State Median Value
1 Hawaii 0.28% $489 $504,500 $1,405
2 Alabama 0.43% $764 $123,800 $538
3 Louisiana 0.48% $841 $140,400 $672
4 Delaware 0.53% $929 $232,900 $1,231
5 District of Columbia 0.57% $1,005 $454,500 $2,601
5 South Carolina 0.57% $1,009 $137,600 $790
7 West Virginia 0.59% $1,035 $100,200 $590
8 Arkansas 0.62% $1,088 $108,700 $673
8 Colorado 0.62% $1,097 $239,400 $1,495
8 Wyoming 0.62% $1,094 $189,300 $1,179
11 Utah 0.69% $1,210 $212,500 $1,463
12 New Mexico 0.72% $1,273 $159,300 $1,154
13 Tennessee 0.75% $1,314 $139,900 $1,046
14 Idaho 0.77% $1,354 $160,500 $1,237
15 Mississippi 0.78% $1,377 $100,800 $790
16 Virginia 0.80% $1,401 $243,500 $1,941
17 California 0.81% $1,429 $371,400 $3,021
18 Kentucky 0.84% $1,471 $121,600 $1,018
18 Arizona 0.84% $1,484 $162,900 $1,376
20 North Carolina 0.85% $1,502 $153,600 $1,313
21 Oklahoma 0.87% $1,525 $115,000 $998
21 Montana 0.87% $1,528 $187,600 $1,632
23 Indiana 0.88% $1,539 $122,700 $1,075
24 Nevada 0.92% $1,618 $167,100 $1,539
25 Georgia 0.96% $1,682 $148,000 $1,417
26 Missouri 1.00% $1,763 $136,700 $1,372
27 Oregon 1.08% $1,890 $234,100 $2,518
27 Washington 1.08% $1,903 $257,200 $2,785
27 Maryland 1.08% $1,906 $287,500 $3,118
30 Florida 1.10% $1,932 $156,200 $1,718
31 Massachusetts 1.18% $2,075 $329,900 $3,896
32 Minnesota 1.19% $2,091 $185,200 $2,204
33 Alaska 1.21% $2,124 $246,300 $2,978
34 North Dakota 1.22% $2,146 $142,000 $1,734
35 Maine 1.27% $2,233 $173,600 $2,206
36 South Dakota 1.36% $2,382 $135,700 $1,840
37 Kansas 1.41% $2,478 $129,400 $1,825
38 Iowa 1.47% $2,582 $126,300 $1,856
39 Pennsylvania 1.51% $2,647 $164,900 $2,484
40 Ohio 1.55% $2,729 $129,600 $2,013
41 New York 1.58% $2,773 $283,700 $4,478
42 Rhode Island 1.61% $2,829 $241,200 $3,883
43 Vermont 1.72% $3,021 $216,200 $3,717
44 Michigan 1.83% $3,220 $120,200 $2,203
45 Nebraska 1.88% $3,301 $130,100 $2,444
46 Connecticut 1.91% $3,357 $274,500 $5,244
47 Texas 1.93% $3,392 $131,400 $2,537
48 Wisconsin 1.97% $3,459 $165,900 $3,266
49 New Hampshire 2.10% $3,698 $237,400 $4,996
50 Illinois 2.25% $3,959 $175,700 $3,959
51 New Jersey 2.29% $4,029 $319,900 $7,335

[AngryScientist]

NJ is consistently ranked among the highest property taxes in the US.

it's all perspective.

some people think a $500 bike from Sports Authority is an expensive bike too.

[AngryScientist]

by the way. last i checked, there is NO dispute. NYC is the greatest city in - the world.

you wanna be under an hour commute to the greatest city in the world - you gotta pay.

:beer:

[R3awak3n]

Death and taxes. The municipality has to get revenue from somewhere so if there's no state tax on income, as in TX, they will get revenue from higher property taxes. AZ has a state tax on income so they need not tax real estate as heavily. Somebody always pays. You were pullin' my leg on this one, right?

Tax revenue obtained through taxing real property owners versus a blanket income tax on all earned wages is a progressive tax structure. I guess from the vantage of civic equity that is a fairer method of apportioning the tax burden.



Yeah well you ignored the "entry level" preface on my comment about the amount of $14k as an annual property tax. The county I used to own a home in - Nassau County NY (13th wealthiest county in the USA last time I checked ;)). 6 acres as you have in Woodstock is not common in Nassau County - that is considered a lot of land. Taxes on that much property in the Town of North Hempstead would be at least $50k. Fox News' Bill O'Reilly lives in the town I lived in and he doesn't have 6 acres.

damn fuzz, thats crazy.

and angry is right, NYC is amazing. You can either pay 1mil for a 1 bedroom in the city, or pay less for a house an hour for the city but you going to get hit up with taxes.

I went up 2 hours and my taxes are still crazy, the next county up from me though would have been half the taxes but I just did not want to go up further, 2 hours from the city was my cutoff.

[vav]

Yup. No argument there. They live 13 miles from the Empire State Building so they know what that means. Maybe they drop that crazy DE idea and move to RI instead :cool:

[jlwdm]

Angry, I always wonder how they determine the rates that are listed. Around me the rates are 2.6% to $2.8%, but my county has a county hospital and a community college that increase the rates.

Probably just the state wide rates plus county, city and schools.

Jeff

[Ken Robb]

Or they could move to a warmer clime where homes are cheaper and host family visits. When I was a real estate broker I saw quite a few instances where grandparents retired and moved near their kids and grandkids. Then the kid(s) got a new job and moved away leaving the grandparents where they no longer wanted to live.

Jobs are so transitory these days that many people move a lot. Realtors love this. :D

[Ralph]

Send them to Florida.....where warm weather makes old bones and joints feel good.....where folks move and many add a bunch of years to their lives when they get active again...assuming they are healthy to begin with. See this all the time in folks who move down here. They come down here to live out a few years and die.....then they get a bike, walking shoes, or something to use on our miles and miles of paved trails around here, and become aging athletes. It's amazing what activity does for old people when they can go outside every day. Some single ones fall in love....think they are 20 again.

Not having to pay a state income tax on retiree income is nice also. Cut the property tax bill by 2/3, cut housing costs by at least 1/2 for a nice home, and spend some of the savings for a condo for the kids to use when they come down. I see this all the time also.

And like above said.....planning a retirement home around where kids live now doesn't always work out. Kids move. Retirees come here for a reason. Life style and quality of life. And BTW....while not everyone is interesting in cycling....where I live in Central Florida not like anything most tourists see at beaches or Disney. Their image of Florida not anything like around here. Visiting a new area is always a good idea.

[fuzzalow]

Fuzz I have a modest house and 2 acres with a 15 year mortgage with taxes escrowed in for right around 6k a year. Just a few miles down the road from the southern adirondack park and great riding right from my front door. It works for me, but it's not NYC type of living.

My father in law just sold his parents place in Westchester county last year because the taxes were around 15k a year. My 14k a year estimate was for a mortgage on a nice home, acreage and taxes combined.

My mistake Hilltopperny. I took the $14K property tax as being what you were getting hit up for, not for what your FIL pays in Westchester. $14K for Westchester isn't bad but likewise is it also not inexpensive,

NYC is it's own head and we have great affinity for this great city it is but don't think for a minute that I don't also pine for what you have outside your door too. The grass is always greener...

Pullin' your leg on what? Just facts.

Jeff

Never mind, my fault; I was outta sync with your flow of conversation. I was viewing the tax situation as the sum total tax burden rather than the segmentation of taxes payable to property and earned income by any state or municipality. I was jumping ahead unnecessarily even if I thought my train of thought was relevant to cost considerations on any choice on where to retire.

by the way. last i checked, there is NO dispute. NYC is the greatest city in - the world.

Most likely true for us here in NYC Metro but other cities might be revitalizing too in their own way. Y'know that magazine TimeOut New York that they give away on the street? They did a story last month where a NY'er and a Los Angelino traded living spaces for a week - a 1BR bungalow in LA versus a 4 story walkup w/2 roomates in Greenpoint Brooklyn. The jist of the article was any change is not a bad thing for a little while. It’s time to talk about L.A. (https://www.timeout.com/newyork/things-to-do/nyc-vs-la)

But there is no denying that NYC is intense - one of the Brooklyn roomates quipped to the visiting Los Angelino that "New York City is like boot camp for life". What a great line.

you wanna be under an hour commute to the greatest city in the world - you gotta pay.

Yup. It is getting worse and that is not a good thing. Neighborhoods overrun by rising costs like some kind of contagion of gentrification.

damn fuzz, thats crazy.

and angry is right, NYC is amazing. You can either pay 1mil for a 1 bedroom in the city, or pay less for a house an hour for the city but you going to get hit up with taxes.

I went up 2 hours and my taxes are still crazy, the next county up from me though would have been half the taxes but I just did not want to go up further, 2 hours from the city was my cutoff.

If you own it, it's yours and that is nuthin' to sneeze at.

My only comment about retirement locations: consider how adversely life becomes at the point that you are no longer able to drive a car. When I lived in the burbs I watched my neighbor wither and die after her kids took away her Toyota Camry because she was no longer safe with it - a captive in her own home eventually made life not worth living.

[R3awak3n]

My mistake Hilltopperny. I took the $14K property tax as being what you were getting hit up for, not for what your FIL pays in Westchester. $14K for Westchester isn't bad but likewise is it also not inexpensive,

NYC is it's own head and we have great affinity for this great city it is but don't think for a minute that I don't also pine for what you have outside your door too. The grass is always greener...



Never mind, my fault; I was outta sync with your flow of conversation. I was viewing the tax situation as the sum total tax burden rather than the segmentation of taxes payable to property and earned income by any state or municipality. I was jumping ahead unnecessarily even if I thought my train of thought was relevant to cost considerations on any choice on where to retire.



Most likely true for us here in NYC Metro but other cities might be revitalizing too in their own way. Y'know that magazine TimeOut New York that they give away on the street? They did a story last month where a NY'er and a Los Angelino traded living spaces for a week - a 1BR bungalow in LA versus a 4 story walkup w/2 roomates in Greenpoint Brooklyn. The jist of the article was any change is not a bad thing for a little while. It’s time to talk about L.A. (https://www.timeout.com/newyork/things-to-do/nyc-vs-la)

But there is no denying that NYC is intense - one of the Brooklyn roomates quipped to the visiting Los Angelino that "New York City is like boot camp for life". What a great line.



Yup. It is getting worse and that is not a good thing. Neighborhoods overrun by rising costs like some kind of contagion of gentrification.



If you own it, it's yours and that is nuthin' to sneeze at.

My only comment about retirement locations: consider how adversely life becomes at the point that you are no longer able to drive a car. When I lived in the burbs I watched my neighbor wither and die after her kids took away her Toyota Camry because she was no longer safe with it - a captive in her own home eventually made life not worth living.


that is really sad. that said I am 32 so a long way to go till retirement (or at least till I am not able to drive oe take care of myself anymore)

[jet sanchez]

My mom is pretty cosmopolitan too and thought about retiring to a small community so she visited with some friends who had retired to a small town about 2 hours drive from Toronto. She didn't like it one bit, too quiet, nothing to do, etc. She is very happily retired in the city, renting a small apartment close to my sister and I.