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huck*this
02-24-2017, 10:19 PM
1st time gluing up some brand new tires. In the past always bought used and it had a thin layer of glue on it so never bothered to glue the tire itself, just the rim.

Is this still true when it is a brand new tire? This guy at Glory says no need to put glue on a new tub tire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCvSa5_RwyU

I have the tires stretched already. Just waiting on what you guys do with new tires. Not sure if the brand is important but they are Vittoria Corsa G+ tubs.

Thanks in advance.

saab2000
02-24-2017, 10:41 PM
Thin layer and let it dry overnight or so. Use a latex glove or something to spread it out. If it absorbs too much into the tape do a second layer.

Thin layer on the rim and let it dry. Then a thin wet layer for the installation.

That's my technique. This will allow centering of the tire.

rwsaunders
02-24-2017, 10:50 PM
I follow Saab's procedure as well. Tons of stuff on the web of course. Are your rims clean or do they have glue on them from a previous application?

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/tubular-tire-gluing-sew-up#article-section-2

regularguy412
02-24-2017, 11:37 PM
IMO, kinda depends on just how 'tight' the tires fit. Some are notoriously tight even after prestretching for a few days at pressure -- namely Continentals. I've not ridden other brands, but others can chime in with 'tight' or 'loose' installation concerns.

I tried the 'glue the base tape too' approach exactly ONE time with Continentals,,, and NEVER again. I had more glue on me, my sweat pants, my hands, a towel and not nearly enough on the critical tire/rim interface. Conti's are just too tight to install with a layer of glue on the tire itself -- even when fully deflated and after being prestretched for a month at high pressure.

My method on Conti's is: after prestretching, I put them in the clothes dryer on a rack (doesn't spin but allows for heat) for about 15 minutes right before I am ready to put the tires on the rims for real. While the tires heat, I spread a thin layer of glue on the rim, making sure to get up near the edges (most important part). I let that layer flash for about 15 minutes or until the glue is only very slightly tacky. I then spread another very thin layer on top of that, and immediately install the tires- having left them in the dryer to retain the heat.

I take off my shoes and socks and get my toes in between the spokes for a little extra leverage. Install and center the tire. Then with the pressure up to about 40psi (this is on a 19 - 22 mm tire), I roll the tire across the floor with my body weight on my hands on the axle ends to help seat the base tape. Then it's pump to 120 and let cure over night. Yep. It's quite a chore with Conti's. BUT , the part I do like about this process is that when installed and pumped up to about 120psi, the tires are stuck. Very small likelihood that the tire will roll off. In fact (knock wood), I've never had a Continental tire that I've glued myself roll off the rim. And that's about 25 years of tubular use. I once forgot my tire levers and had to change one of these on the road with just my thumbs. I wore blisters on both thumbs before I got the tire off.

Everyone has their own method, but this one has worked for me with Continental Competition GP tires for many years. Some other tire brands may be made a little bit looser and would likely benefit from the application of glue directly on the base tape.

Mike in AR:beer:

Dead Man
02-24-2017, 11:46 PM
What? That guy's a crackpot... glue already on the tire? No... Vittoria says nothing about having glue on the tire already. Tubular tire glue is contact cement - the characteristic of contact cement is that it needs to be applied to both parts, allowed to flash off some, then pressed together. There's no way you can get as strong a bond only doing one of the two parts to be adhered.

It's a lot simpler than some make it out to be... but that's just way too simple.

Ryun
02-25-2017, 06:18 AM
I always put at least one thin layer on the base tape. Some of the more naturAl base tapes like fmb will suck thAt layer up so it may take two prep layers. No base tape that I know of has any glue pre applied. Some seem coated and sealed but I still add a thin layer

oldpotatoe
02-25-2017, 07:03 AM
1st time gluing up some brand new tires. In the past always bought used and it had a thin layer of glue on it so never bothered to glue the tire itself, just the rim.

Is this still true when it is a brand new tire? This guy at Glory says no need to put glue on a new tub tire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCvSa5_RwyU

I have the tires stretched already. Just waiting on what you guys do with new tires. Not sure if the brand is important but they are Vittoria Corsa G+ tubs.

Thanks in advance.

Really dumb advice, no tubular has glue on it. And NO tubular needs to have first coat dry overnight.

New tubular and unglued rim-

Just this fast

Glue the tire
Glue the rim
Glue the tire
Glue the rim
Glue the tire..when the glue isn't really sticky in touch(about 10-15 minutes)
Glue the rim, mount, little bit of air, center, roll on floor, let set 24 hours.

If rim has a bit of glue? Reduce glue on rim to 2. This, light coats, use a solvent brush, can of glue.

Even Conti's stretched well and mounted 'right', won't get glue everywhere if you use the 'glue on tire not real wet, rim glue wet' technique. And wheel on floor, push valve thru, pull down on tire with vigor on each side..pull over rim.

huck*this
02-25-2017, 08:11 AM
Really dumb advice, no tubular has glue on it. And NO tubular needs to have first coat dry overnight.

New tubular and unglued rim-

Just this fast

Glue the tire
Glue the rim
Glue the tire
Glue the rim
Glue the tire..when the glue isn't really sticky in touch(about 10-15 minutes)
Glue the rim, mount, little bit of air, center, roll on floor, let set 24 hours.

If rim has a bit of glue? Reduce glue on rim to 2. This, light coats, use a solvent brush, can of glue.

Even Conti's stretched well and mounted 'right', won't get glue everywhere if you use the 'glue on tire not real wet, rim glue wet' technique. And wheel on floor, push valve thru, pull down on tire with vigor on each side..pull over rim.

Going to follow this exact procedure.

So to understand I want to have 3 coats on the new tire and yes the rim has previous glue on it so 2 coats on the rim of glue?

Also for any cleanup I want to use acetone? They are skin wall so want to make it look as clean and professional as possible. I have mounted tubs before just black tires and used tubs.

oldpotatoe
02-25-2017, 08:18 AM
Going to follow this exact procedure.

So to understand I want to have 3 coats on the new tire and yes the rim has previous glue on it so 2 coats on the rim of glue?

Also for any cleanup I want to use acetone? They are skin wall so want to make it look as clean and professional as possible. I have mounted tubs before just black tires and used tubs.

The way I do it, have for 35 years..thin coats.

Yup, I use acetone.

regularguy412
02-25-2017, 01:50 PM
What? That guy's a crackpot... glue already on the tire? No... Vittoria says nothing about having glue on the tire already. Tubular tire glue is contact cement - the characteristic of contact cement is that it needs to be applied to both parts, allowed to flash off some, then pressed together. There's no way you can get as strong a bond only doing one of the two parts to be adhered.

It's a lot simpler than some make it out to be... but that's just way too simple.

Then it's clear that you've NEVER glued Continental tubs on.

:D

rwsaunders
02-25-2017, 09:20 PM
I used to have Conti Competions on one set of wheels and they were very reliable and decent riding tires. I could just barely get them on a stretching rim though and I gave up wrestling with them.

huck*this
02-25-2017, 09:28 PM
Glued up the tires today via Oldpotato process. Straight forward just used more glue then I thought I would. 1 tube per wheel. Only tip I found that helped out was putting a little air 20psi in the tire prior to applying glue to the base tape. . The roundness of the tire helped to keep the glue off the skinwall. Then to smooth out the bead of glue on the tape I made a V shape between index and middle finger and glided it on the tape. This helped to evenly distribute the glue to the sides of the tape and not just the center. I feel confident with the bond.

Is there anyway I can confirm how well of a job I did in the morning once the glue cured?

Thanks for all your help.

regularguy412
02-25-2017, 09:44 PM
After the overnight curing process, air the tires up to operating pressure and, with your thumbs, apply pressure by trying to push the tire sideways away from the edge of the rim where the sidewall/basetape/rim edge meet. (as if you're trying to roll the tire off the rim). If the tape 'comes up' off the rim edge, might want to reglue. A properly glued and stuck base tape on the rim edge is more important than the part that's stuck down the middle of the tubular rim (between the spoke holes, sorta).

At least, that's the way I check.

Mike in AR:beer:

Dead Man
02-25-2017, 10:15 PM
After the overnight curing process, air the tires up to operating pressure and, with your thumbs, apply pressure by trying to push the tire sideways away from the edge of the rim where the sidewall/basetape/rim edge meet. (as if you're trying to roll the tire off the rim). If the tape 'comes up' off the rim edge, might want to reglue. A properly glued and stuck base tape on the rim edge is more important than the part that's stuck down the middle of the tubular rim (between the spoke holes, sorta).

At least, that's the way I check.

Mike in AR:beer:

edges are definitely more important than the center... all the same, I've taken to using skinny curtain rod to roll the tire over to press the basetape down into the rim bed. I also kind of swivel the wheel as I roll, which presses against the edges too.

Peace of mind... instead of pieces of mind.

regularguy412
02-25-2017, 10:25 PM
edges are definitely more important than the center... all the same, I've taken to using skinny curtain rod to roll the tire over to press the basetape down into the rim bed. I also kind of swivel the wheel as I roll, which presses against the edges too.

Peace of mind... instead of pieces of mind.

Cool thing I didn't know about my Easton tubular wheels until they arrived: they have a formed depression down the center of the tire bed which helps allow the base tape to adhere all the way across. The seam of the base tape has a place to 'go' and not keep the center of the glued surface from making contact. Ergo: more of the tape actually sticks to the rim bed.

Mike in AR:beer:

djdj
02-26-2017, 07:59 AM
After the overnight curing process, air the tires up to operating pressure and, with your thumbs, apply pressure by trying to push the tire sideways away from the edge of the rim where the sidewall/basetape/rim edge meet. (as if you're trying to roll the tire off the rim). If the tape 'comes up' off the rim edge, might want to reglue. A properly glued and stuck base tape on the rim edge is more important than the part that's stuck down the middle of the tubular rim (between the spoke holes, sorta).

At least, that's the way I check.

Mike in AR:beer:

Not at operating (full) pressure. Do it with the tire deflated. You don't need to push hard, but enough to see whether there are significant gaps at the edge.

regularguy412
02-26-2017, 09:07 AM
Not at operating (full) pressure. Do it with the tire deflated. You don't need to push hard, but enough to see whether there are significant gaps at the edge.

Agreed. Can be done that way, too. I just choose to push hard with both thumbs. I've never had a failure, even with a sudden front tire deflation in the middle of a turn in the middle of the pack at race speed (hit a very small, but unavoidable pothole). (finding wood to knock on now). That was years ago and on a set of Campy Victory Crono rims.

summilux
02-26-2017, 09:15 AM
Good advice here.

I will add that the first few inches around the valve will set the tone for the install. Before you set the valve in, pull the tire outward to stretch it. Otherwise you will get a bump here. Second tip is to place electrical tape around the outside surfaces of the rim so when you add glue you it doesn't spill out. Lastly, a latex covered thumb is a superb applicator.

Oh, and if it's not perfect, just pull it off. There's no harm in starting over. In fact, even if you have to doit a few times try as hard as you can to make it as bump and wobble free as possible. If you have a quality tubular (Veloflex, just saying) you'll never have to remove it until all the treads are gone inshallah.

saab2000
02-26-2017, 09:19 AM
I only mention the overnight drying on the first tire layer for tires that have a dry base tape, like the FMB.

Veloflex (my favorites) have a coated base and I don't use the extra layer much there as it doesn't really soak into the tape.

The key is thin layers. I apply a bead on the partially inflated tire and spread it around with a latex glove on my fingers.

Satellite
02-26-2017, 11:19 AM
TUFO Tubular Tape problem solved! I do max inflation for 24hours after tape is set and then ride. My spare tire has two coats of Mastic applied to the base tape but I have never needed to use it. Orange seal has always taken care of punctures.