Etap first Gen...wait for Gen 2?

[bianchi10]

I've been tossing around the idea of going with Etap. I'm still on 7900 because I want to be. It's a personal thing, but I just dont care for the ergonomics of dura ace hood shape after 7900. Even though I have really disliked all things sram for years, I found myself loving the feel of the Etap hoods. Very similar to my 7900 hood shape. The way etap works makes it totally different than how their mechanical worked, so it takes disliking the shifting process out of the equation.

I'm all for getting the Etap, but I know that with most things electronic or technology, first generation items usually have flaws and it can be better to wait for later generations when they have sorted out some faults. I've done a bit of reading and it appears that Etap has been in development for 5 or 6 years, so I fully understand that they have taken their time to ensure a good performing product. I've heard about a lot of FD issues as well. On the other hand, I've heard from tons of people who made the plunge and absolutely love it.

What say you? Make a move when the time is right or wait for later generations?

[thirdgenbird]

I am far from an expert, but the only reoccurring complaint I have seen is fd/tire interference on some fat tire applications. There were also some early issues with the front derailleur contacting the crank arm but that seems sorted.

I am guessing neither of these issues would effect your bike.

[bianchi10]

I am far from an expert, but the only reoccurring complaint I have seen is fd/tire interference on some fat tire applications. There were also some early issues with the front derailleur contacting the crank arm but that seems sorted.

I am guessing neither of these issues would effect your bike.


That's good to hear. I just started my research, so any information and direction at this point is great!

[rando]

Go big or go home. You owe it to yourself to check out prices for one of the 55 gallon drums they supply to bike shops for shipping sRMA parts back for warranty. If you are a self starter that large a bucket of spare parts could last a year or more. eTap into the conduit of corporate waste through a straw of economic sensibility.

[Tony]

Go big or go home. You owe it to yourself to check out prices for one of the 55 gallon drums they supply to bike shops for shipping sRMA parts back for warranty. If you are a self starter that large a bucket of spare parts could last a year or more. eTap into the conduit of corporate waste through a straw of economic sensibility.

On the fashionable slam Sram bandwagon. Asks for advise and gets deep Sram BS :crap:

[hummus_aquinas]

yeah, the I HATE SRAM rhetoric is getting tired and puns aren't that great either.

[Tickdoc]

Waiting for campy.....so those who switch will set their useless mechanical sets free!

[Bentley]

I have been using SRAM for a couple of years on my bikes, mostly Force, some Red. Honestly, the shifting issues that people bring are foreign to me. I would say that when you shift a SRAM equipped bike it is definitely something that you "feel", very deliberate. I would also say that Double Tap takes some getting used to. But the truth is that my SRAM gear has been basically bulletproof and works great.

My LBS is a die hard Dura Ace shop and he has been installing ETap on a bunch of Tri Bikes, his comment is that the Tri Biker's are the worst at maintaining their gear and to date he has not had to return anything, so the truth of the matter is it seems to be working.

Every brand of gear seems to have some problem, some are more significant than others, but if SRAM were really so crappy would they continue to sell the amount of product they are selling?

Just my perspective

Ray

[SoCalSteve]

I've been tossing around the idea of going with Etap. I'm still on 7900 because I want to be. It's a personal thing, but I just dont care for the ergonomics of dura ace hood shape after 7900. Even though I have really disliked all things sram for years, I found myself loving the feel of the Etap hoods. Very similar to my 7900 hood shape. The way etap works makes it totally different than how their mechanical worked, so it takes disliking the shifting process out of the equation.

I'm all for getting the Etap, but I know that with most things electronic or technology, first generation items usually have flaws and it can be better to wait for later generations when they have sorted out some faults. I've done a bit of reading and it appears that Etap has been in development for 5 or 6 years, so I fully understand that they have taken their time to ensure a good performing product. I've heard about a lot of FD issues as well. On the other hand, I've heard from tons of people who made the plunge and absolutely love it.

What say you? Make a move when the time is right or wait for later generations?

I wasn't a real early adopter, but have been using etap now for at least 6 months. I find it to be flawless in the way it works, installs and the aesthetics on the bike.

I cannot imagine what gen 2 would get that's not on gen 1. The only thing I can think of is more interface with my Garmin 1000. It does the gear ratio and battery status, but nothing more. I imagine that it could do more ( like it does with DI2 ) but I think that could just be a software update. Not a gen 2 version.

You know, they send you a dongle to do software-firmware updates. There haven't been any. That says a lot about how good the product is right out of the box.

Go for it!

[SoCalSteve]

Go big or go home. You owe it to yourself to check out prices for one of the 55 gallon drums they supply to bike shops for shipping sRMA parts back for warranty. If you are a self starter that large a bucket of spare parts could last a year or more. eTap into the conduit of corporate waste through a straw of economic sensibility.

In all the bike stores I've been in and inquired about etap, I have not heard of one warranty issue. Where are you getting this information from regarding etap?

[David Tollefson]

I'm on the verge of ordering up an eTAP system for myself. A nice work bonus was the deciding factor. I've long been a Shimano user. I never did cotton to the DoupleTap shifting feel, but I've played with the eTAP a few times and it seems to be intuitive after just a few seconds. The only FD issues I've heard of were related to the force of the shift and that causing problems when the chain and cranks weren't actually moving.

[rnhood]

I am in a similar boat, in that after 65k miles on my 7900 I am wondering if its time to upgrade. The new eTap is interesting, although I hated Sram when it first came out as that double clicking thing was trash. My Tarmac came with it but after a few months of hell, I had my dealer take it off, throw it away, and put DA on it. Its been heaven ever since.

I think waiting for gen 2 is likely the best path as any kinks/bugs will be worked out (theoretically) and, it is likely have include some additional features. And above all, there is nothing wrong with 7900. If you don't have a good reason to upgrade, then you have a good reason for waiting a bit.

[bob heinatz]

Sram did their homework before they released eTAP. I have a few friends who absolutely love it on their bikes. The usual bugs with new technology don't appear with eTAP. I say go for it. Btw I am a Campy fanboy and I am very impressed with SRAMs latest offering.

[simonov]

I was a very early eTap adopter and it's been flawless. I've also watched diehard Campagnolo and Shimano friends make the switch with no regrets. It's very good.

And FWIW, I also prefer my SRAM mechanical (11-speed) to my Shimano or Campagnolo mechanical groups and have found it to be more reliable and less finicky. But I do enjoy the inevitable SRAM hate that's a given in any thread on the topic.

[SoCalSteve]

I am in a similar boat, in that after 65k miles on my 7900 I am wondering if its time to upgrade. The new eTap is interesting, although I hated Sram when it first came out as that double clicking thing was trash. My Tarmac came with it but after a few months of hell, I had my dealer take it off, throw it away, and put DA on it. Its been heaven ever since.

I think waiting for gen 2 is likely the best path as any kinks/bugs will be worked out (theoretically) and, it is likely have include some additional features. And above all, there is nothing wrong with 7900. If you don't have a good reason to upgrade, then you have a good reason for waiting a bit.

Please enlighten us on what the kinks and/or bugs are? I have spent many thousands of kink free-bug free miles on etap.

Please enlighten us on what additional features you think it may have? It's pretty good right now. Cannot imagine what they could do to make it better.

Thanks!

[rando]

Complain I mention a tiger can't change it's stripes and he'd do well to think further down the road. Then proceed to completely ignore the OP's question en masse. I feel the outcome here is pre-determined and engaging in lively discussion would be far more enjoyable than hateful yet self embracing replies ad infinitum.

Let's try looking this from a new angle. Multiple choice quiz on what Bianchi10 should do to resolve the predicament he is facing.


I've been tossing around the idea of going with Etap... What say you? Make a move when the time is right or wait for later generations?

A. Oooh, make that right move when the time is right!

B. I've never known you not to associate and promptly dissociate with the freshest drops, son! Keep making the right moves at the right time.

C. Don't sit at home Etapping when you can go ride your personal champion. Seize the chance to make the right move right now!

D. HYPE! The future is now and I'm already part of it.

E. N+1 is how this equation resolves itself

[bianchi10]

Please enlighten us on what the kinks and/or bugs are? I have spent many thousands of kink free-bug free miles on etap.

Please enlighten us on what additional features you think it may have? It's pretty good right now. Cannot imagine what they could do to make it better.

Thanks!

I'm not speaking for him, but I think he is suggesting that THEORETICALLY if there were any bugs to be worked out, 2nd Gen might be more efficient? Obviously they have software updates that will keep the system up to par, but we know that technology is always evolving to be better and faster.

[pdmtong]

Go big or go home. You owe it to yourself to check out prices for one of the 55 gallon drums they supply to bike shops for shipping sRMA parts back for warranty. If you are a self starter that large a bucket of spare parts could last a year or more. eTap into the conduit of corporate waste through a straw of economic sensibility.
this made me laugh hard enough to almost spit coffee

I wasn't a real early adopter, but have been using etap now for at least 6 months. I find it to be flawless in the way it works, installs and the aesthetics on the bike.

I cannot imagine what gen 2 would get that's not on gen 1. The only thing I can think of is more interface with my Garmin 1000. It does the gear ratio and battery status, but nothing more. I imagine that it could do more ( like it does with DI2 ) but I think that could just be a software update. Not a gen 2 version.

I have only done one extended (three hour) ride on eTAP and loved it. the shifting paradigm was a non-issue after the first 1/4 mile. the hood ergonomics as you mention are terrific. sram haters can hate, but this isn't first gen Force...it's nicely done.

local shops here prefer to implement eTAP with a campagnolo crank, chain, cassette for best shifting performance. of course with a motor, who cares, but LBS's here prefer campy rings.

I've pondered what gen 2.0 might bring.
- smaller batteries
- longer life batteries
- more accurate battery life indicator
- component weight savings
- more and easier interfaces with other devices.

unlike first gen Di2 where you knew they had to move the battery inside as a next step (campy too) or move to 11sp there isnt any obvious (to me) deal killer with gen 1.0 eTAP

[bianchi10]

Complain I mention a tiger can't change it's stripes and he'd do well to think further down the road. Then proceed to completely ignore the OP's question en masse. I feel the outcome here is pre-determined and engaging in lively discussion would be far more enjoyable than hateful yet self embracing replies ad infinitum.

Let's try looking this from a new angle. Multiple choice quiz on what Bianchi10 should do to resolve the predicament he is facing.




A. Oooh, make that right move when the time is right!

B. I've never known you not to associate and promptly dissociate with the freshest drops, son! Keep making the right moves at the right time.

C. Don't sit at home Etapping when you can go ride your personal champion. Seize the chance to make the right move right now!

D. HYPE! The future is now and I'm already part of it.

E. N+1 is how this equation resolves itself

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u30/blknslvrgsxr/Attach125738_20170224_102920.gif (http://s164.photobucket.com/user/blknslvrgsxr/media/Attach125738_20170224_102920.gif.html)

Lol I have no idea what you're saying when you talk. Maybe it's just me or the fact that I woke up way too early and lacking sleep to comprehend, but I feel like I'm having a hard time grasping what you're saying. I feel like I'm reading the most confusing parts of the Bible

[rando]

I think you'd be better off buying into what they are selling right now. If it doesn't click (Zoom here for bad pun) you can get out while resale and consumer interest is still high. Build the 7900 up on another frame and enjoy them both.

The alternative is refacing this discussion when the next round of the next great things are all on the market. Just because something ostensibly works doesn't mean it works well (Much less better than accepted performance levels found in past groups.) There are 6 speed downtube groups that remain flawless and beyond smooth in operation. Doesn't mean you should consider them in any way but the ease and functionality they provided. The ride was about riding not fiddling with high retail price distractions everyone swears is the greatest least troublesome thing ever.

If you want to educate yourself on the subject, educate yourself on the actual subject. Not forcefully offered opinion or marketing numbers. You might decide something high maintenance is worth it to you over another thing that boringly works without a hiccup. Or vice versa.

[SoCalSteve]

this made me laugh hard enough to almost spit coffee



I have only done one extended (three hour) ride on eTAP and loved it. the shifting paradigm was a non-issue after the first 1/4 mile. the hood ergonomics as you mention are terrific. sram haters can hate, but this isn't first gen Force...it's nicely done.

local shops here prefer to implement eTAP with a campagnolo crank, chain, cassette for best shifting performance. of course with a motor, who cares, but LBS's here prefer campy rings.

I've pondered what gen 2.0 might bring.
- smaller batteries
- longer life batteries
- more accurate battery life indicator
- component weight savings
- more and easier interfaces with other devices.

unlike first gen Di2 where you knew they had to move the battery inside as a next step (campy too) or move to 11sp there isnt any obvious (to me) deal killer with gen 1.0 eTAP

All great ideas! I think most ( save the components weight savings ) could be done with simple hardware and software updates to gen 1.

And yeah, I much prefer the Dura Ace brakes, chainset, cassette, etc over SRAM gear and that's what I use.

[KonaSS]

Actual etap user here. Love it. No bugs that I can report of and nothing I can think that needs to be addressed.

My guess is your are going to see Force etap next, before a gen 2 Red.

I would further guess that etap MTB is next, then a gen 2, and trickle down to Rival.

[SpeedyChix]

Have any eTap users here paired the FD with crank with smallish rings? 28/38 or 34/42?

[JasonF]

local shops here prefer to implement eTAP with a campagnolo crank, chain, cassette for best shifting performance. of course with a motor, who cares, but LBS's here prefer campy rings.

I installed eTap on my Vamoots and took it for a short ride. Drivetrain was dead silent using Campy chain, cassette and crank - more so than a well-adjusted mechanical Campy setup. Go figure. That said, I'll probably sell the eTap group as I simply prefer the simple mechanical interface.

[thirdgenbird]

I installed eTap on my Vamoots and took it for a short ride. Drivetrain was dead silent using Campy chain, cassette and crank - more so than a well-adjusted mechanical Campy setup. Go figure. That said, I'll probably sell the eTap group as I simply prefer the simple mechanical interface.

I'm a Campagnolo and mechanical guy, but I've debated:
Etap mini group
Ee brakes
Campagnolo wheels
Campagnolo crank
Campagnolo chain
Campagnolo cassette

I would say Campagnolo brakes but you would be without a release.

[crankles]

Have any eTap users here paired the FD with crank with smallish rings? 28/38 or 34/42?

smallest I've seen so far is 46/36...on Wout Van Aerts bike no less.

[crankles]

Go big or go home. You owe it to yourself to check out prices for one of the 55 gallon drums they supply to bike shops for shipping sRMA parts back for warranty. If you are a self starter that large a bucket of spare parts could last a year or more. eTap into the conduit of corporate waste through a straw of economic sensibility.

fake news...well, at least not my experience AT ALL. I've raced CX on sram force since 2007. Maybe a 100 races and lots of training miles on that kit. not...one...single...issue. I even repaired a crashed shifter with parts ordered from sram.

I've also been on a Red Kit for 20k miles that again hasn't had any issues.

etap+hydro is going on a bike as soon as the kits are available.

[eBAUMANN]

i briefly had a group in my possession, long enough to take it out of the box and look at...i really really hope they improve the feel of the shift buttons...felt like toys...CHEAP toys.

otherwise, nice stuff, looking forward to the next version...and force etap :)

[JasonF]

I'm a Campagnolo and mechanical guy, but I've debated:
Etap mini group
Ee brakes
Campagnolo wheels
Campagnolo crank
Campagnolo chain
Campagnolo cassette

I would say Campagnolo brakes but you would be without a release.

Correct - you need a release on the caliper for eTap. I used Ultegra calipers that stopped just fine. That said, eTap worked great with a Campy crank and chain.

[bianchi10]

i briefly had a group in my possession, long enough to take it out of the box and look at...i really really hope they improve the feel of the shift buttons...felt like toys...CHEAP toys.

otherwise, nice stuff, looking forward to the next version...and force etap :)

Interesting you felt that way. I personally loved the buttons and feedback of the buttons

[pdmtong]

I would say Campagnolo brakes but you would be without a release.

Correct - you need a release on the caliper for eTap. I used Ultegra calipers that stopped just fine. That said, eTap worked great with a Campy crank and chain.

I had mavic ssc brakes (no release) with my 2010 force set up (conti 4k 23c)

If the tire is flat, no issues removing or installing when no release present.

If inflated, a sharp whack on the wheel with the palm of your hand will pop the tire past the brake shoes (whether removing or installing) without issue.

might not work with higher pressure or a more voluminous tire but for my set up it was fine.

[thirdgenbird]

I've done that too. Your tire size can't be a lot wider than your tires. On a road/ race bike, usually fine. I want 28+ which may present other issues with etap.

[Kirk007]

Bianchi10 Lol I have no idea what you're saying when you talk.

I'm with you; maybe its the long winter or the POTUS inspiring awkward syntax, fake words and fake news.

I will agree with Rando that SRAM front derailleurs suck(ed). But once that was remedied I rode a Rival group without issue for two winters.

My next bike with be a custom road bike built for etap hydro which I will then proudly display on internet forums for all the haters to disparage just like my son's golden retriever parades around with multiple tennis balls in his mouth, consistently eliciting growls and barred teeth from his elder house companions.

[David Tollefson]

Have any eTap users here paired the FD with crank with smallish rings? 28/38 or 34/42?

Before the eTAP WiFli, I had a plan to do a compact+mini crank, likely 44/28, and get a 1:1 ratio on the groad bike. With the WiFli, I can keep my current low gear, which is just enough for the rides I've done. I inquired at SRAM about it, and their answer was a carefully worded non-answer saying eTAP is designed around a 43.5mm chainline (that number might not be right -- pulling it out of increasingly foggy memory), implying that Red was the only thing it'd mesh with properly. Take that with a ton of salt.

[David Tollefson]

My next bike with be a custom road bike built for etap hydro which I will then proudly display on internet forums for all the haters to disparage...

I've got a climbing specific frame at about 75% complete right now. When the discussion with my wife turned positive regarding purchasing eTAP, I kept the frame there without and gear cable braze-ons, hoping for the potential. Turned out, so I won't feel the need to grind off the cable stops on my current road bike. At least until (I win the Lotto and) the whole fleet gets 'tapped.

Upshot: I know some one (or two) who could build that bike for you.

[Kirk007]

Upshot: I know some one (or two) who could build that bike for you.

Thanks David, I secured a spot in Tom Kellogg's cue last November. And gotta say for a guy who has built a lot of bikes of all stripes he was very enthusiastic about etap hydro for the type of riding we have up here in Pac NW. I trust Tom's judgement.

[Kirk007]

*

[vqdriver]

Tldr
Im waiting for year 2 etap
May be the same as year 1, but i dont buy groups that often so i can wait

[David Tollefson]

I secured a spot in Tom Kellogg's cue last November. And gotta say for a guy who has built a lot of bikes of all stripes he was very enthusiastic about etap hydro for the type of riding we have up here in Pac NW. I trust Tom's judgement.

Top-shelf choice. You won't be disappointed.

[SpeedyChix]

smallest I've seen so far is 46/36...on Wout Van Aerts bike no less.

Thanks. Picked up eTap for the coupled bike. However it's a reg (not wiFi rd) so am sorting options to get lower gears for some trips. Or if I'm going to need to a) find a trade for the new RD, b) try it and see what works c) accept 34/30 as a low gear

[Elefantino]

Based on SoCalSteve's raves I've tickled the idea of going with SRAMagnolo. I just don't like the hood shape as much with eTap. Guess I'll be waiting for EPStap, which I will not be able to afford.

[Bob Ross]

yeah, the I HATE SRAM rhetoric is getting tired and puns aren't that great either.

I'll admit I got a kick out of "sRMA"

But I don't know anybody who's had firsthand reliability problems with SRAM equipment; only bad-mouthing I hear is internet anecdotes/apochrypha.

[rando]

http://i.imgur.com/BxrN3.gif

[oldpotatoe]

I'll admit I got a kick out of "sRMA"

But I don't know anybody who's had firsthand reliability problems with SRAM equipment; only bad-mouthing I hear is internet anecdotes/apochrypha.

'apochrypha'....yowser, had to look that one up..ya been hanging out with fuzz?

SRAM shifters/ders if ya gotta, all else shimano or campag(cogset)....plus UNO!

But 'discussion' group. Discuss or don't, bike stuff, after all.

[apeescape]

So take this for what its worth as I may or may not work for SRAM. That being said, I was a mechanic for over a decade before that. During that time I hated SRAM Road components. Their 10 speed groups were horrible and only worked decent with Shimano front derailleurs. The Yaw made things better, but since there is no trim it is not a True 22 on all bikes. Old Red derailleurs would last maybe a season, it was pretty bad.

That being said, the E-Tap has been a game changer for SRAM. My biggest surprise is how durable and consistent it has been. Very few failures and a pretty awesome product. Feel free to reach out with any questions. And even though I work for SRAM, I still have a bit of green, white and red in my blood ;)

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

[kgreene10]

So take this for what its worth as I may or may not work for SRAM. That being said, I was a mechanic for over a decade before that. During that time I hated SRAM Road components. Their 10 speed groups were horrible and only worked decent with Shimano front derailleurs. The Yaw made things better, but since there is no trim it is not a True 22 on all bikes. Old Red derailleurs would last maybe a season, it was pretty bad.

That being said, the E-Tap has been a game changer for SRAM. My biggest surprise is how durable and consistent it has been. Very few failures and a pretty awesome product. Feel free to reach out with any questions. And even though I work for SRAM, I still have a bit of green, white and red in my blood ;)

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

That's great to hear. I had a "never again" experience with Red 10sp but find etap really appealing. I've been staying away because of concerns over durability and just plain vanilla basic functionality. I'll now consider it.

[SoCalSteve]

So take this for what its worth as I may or may not work for SRAM. That being said, I was a mechanic for over a decade before that. During that time I hated SRAM Road components. Their 10 speed groups were horrible and only worked decent with Shimano front derailleurs. The Yaw made things better, but since there is no trim it is not a True 22 on all bikes. Old Red derailleurs would last maybe a season, it was pretty bad.

That being said, the E-Tap has been a game changer for SRAM. My biggest surprise is how durable and consistent it has been. Very few failures and a pretty awesome product. Feel free to reach out with any questions. And even though I work for SRAM, I still have a bit of green, white and red in my blood ;)

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Thank you so much for your honest assessment of SRAM products.

I do have questions: will I ever have a need for the dongle? Will there be an app or website for firmware updates and/or any shifting options? Will eTap and Garmin ever do more than just show gear ratios and simple battery levels?

Thank you again!

[oldpotatoe]

So take this for what its worth as I may or may not work for SRAM. That being said, I was a mechanic for over a decade before that. During that time I hated SRAM Road components. Their 10 speed groups were horrible and only worked decent with Shimano front derailleurs. The Yaw made things better, but since there is no trim it is not a True 22 on all bikes. Old Red derailleurs would last maybe a season, it was pretty bad.

That being said, the E-Tap has been a game changer for SRAM. My biggest surprise is how durable and consistent it has been. Very few failures and a pretty awesome product. Feel free to reach out with any questions. And even though I work for SRAM, I still have a bit of green, white and red in my blood ;)

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

Thanks for the honesty. Those of us in the industry(well used to be) got tired of the 'wow, never heard of THAT before', BS. Or 'been using original whatever for 144,000 miles w/o even needing a chain, type baldedash.

Say hi to taco ed for me...smurk. :crap:

[Tony]

So take this for what its worth as I may or may not work for SRAM. That being said, I was a mechanic for over a decade before that. During that time I hated SRAM Road components. Their 10 speed groups were horrible and only worked decent with Shimano front derailleurs. The Yaw made things better, but since there is no trim it is not a True 22 on all bikes. Old Red derailleurs would last maybe a season, it was pretty bad.

That being said, the E-Tap has been a game changer for SRAM. My biggest surprise is how durable and consistent it has been. Very few failures and a pretty awesome product. Feel free to reach out with any questions. And even though I work for SRAM, I still have a bit of green, white and red in my blood ;)

:banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

That's a lot of dancing bananas.

[apeescape]

No word on firmware updates yet, but my information on new product is somewhat limited in the role I play ( very minor player ). So far the product has been as flawless a first year as I can remember ( started wrenching in 2002).