Inquiries to FS items in Classifieds from members with zero posts/feedback?

[raygunner]

I apologize if this topic has been addressed previously.

When visiting the forum I typically utilize the classifieds section to part ways with various cycling related goods. Over the past few years I've sold hundreds of great things to tons of great people and have yet to had a bad transaction (despite having 2 things lost in the mail but everything was worked out).

Recently I was contacted by a member who had zero posts/feedback, despite being a member for a few years, inquiring into purchasing an item I posted for sale.

Honestly I didn't feel confident transacting due to the lack of activity on the forum and declined to pursue the transaction.

My question is that despite lack of forum activity, is there any logical reason to decline this transaction?

Would receipt of funds via PayPal's friend's & family adequately cover me?

Any collective insight would be helpful as I want to keep selling on this forum but want to be secure.

Thanks!

[R3awak3n]

I think it depends if you want to deal with it or not. To be honest, my rule is, I will sell to anyone if the item is cheap (lets say up to $50), I do this because if I loose $50 its not the end of the world. However anything over that I just won't do.


Paypal is pretty safe but I think they would probably side with buying a lot of times. That said, at least by using paypal (and not friends and fam) you get an address and a name.

[raygunner]

Good point!

The item in question is over $500 which may has contributed to my hesitancy.

[colker]

When in doubt don´t sell it.

[mhespenheide]

With regular PayPal, it's pretty easy for the buyer to register a complaint, and my sense is that they tend to side with the buyer. If you, as a seller, don't use some kind of tracked shipping, I could see a problem with a buyer claiming that the item never arrived. I don't know what they would do if the buyer claimed that an item arrived but wasn't in the condition that you specified. At the least, it could get obnoxious as you wait for some resolution.

With friends and family, I think all the power lies with the seller. Once you're received payment, there's nothing that can really require you to ship an item -- theoretically you're giving money to a friend or a family member, not exchanging money for goods or services. I don't know why, as a buyer, you would use friends and family. As a seller, you're not supposed to accept money via friends and family either, but I don't know what consequences you would face under PayPal's terms and conditions. In a worse case of severe abuse of their system, I could see them freezing your account.

Whenever I send money through PayPal for transactions here, in the short message, I always list the item, say that it was first listed on the Paceline Forums, and agreed to via private message. While that's not a legal contract, at least it gives some indication of why I'm sending money and it feels like a basic step to CYA if anything goes wrong, giving the admins at PayPal a first starting point in the event of a dispute. If you're willing to do something like that, I can't see why you wouldn't sell to someone.

[wpod]

Good point. Never ran into that issue but think I'd start with a phone call to a land line provided by Buyer. If that land line addr matched shipping addr of a confirmed PayPal acct and phone conversation provided no red flags I suppose I would be ok with sale.

[weisan]

I have done it in the past, haven't had any issue. Maybe I have a higher tolerance level or maybe I still believe there's goodness on this earth. :D
At the end of the day, to me, it's just stuff.

[icepick_trotsky]

I would just add that using PP's Friends and Family violates PP's terms of use and those of this forum.

[Dead Man]

I notice I am way more likely to get lowball offers from members with low/no post counts, but have otherwise had no problems doing business with them.

I'm definitely a little more careful with them, though. If someone seems like a weirdo, I decline to do business. So it's possible that's saved me from problems

[choke]

The fact that the person was a member for several years would make me more willing to sell to them than if they had created an account recently. I figure if they've been around for a while, regardless of whether they posted or not, they're less likely to try to scam me than someone new.

In the end though, you're the one selling so if you don't feel comfortable with someone it's your right to pass.

Good point. Never ran into that issue but think I'd start with a phone call to a land line provided by Buyer. If that land line addr matched shipping addr of a confirmed PayPal acct and phone conversation provided no red flags I suppose I would be ok with sale.I would be screwed in that case....I got rid of my land line when I got rid of dial-up.

[daker13]

I don't blame you a bit for hesitating to sell something that was worth over $500 to a member with no posts, ESPECIALLY if they wanted you to use friends/family PP.

[Brian Cdn]

I have yet to have an issue with any PL transactions.

To me there's no difference between an active member or one who's been dormant.

We all started here on this forum at (0) at one point.

PS: And no.. to friends and family paypal.

[Bentley]

I am curious why not to "reply". The reply could be "I don't sell to folks without feedback", which at least gives the person something with respect to an acknowledgement.

I have little in the way of a "rep" on this forum, about 1000 transactions on eBay, most using PayPal. Can't say I'm out anything selling thru PayPal to some one with little or no feedback.

I would encourage a response to an inquiry, even if it is thanks but no thanks

Ray

[raygunner]

I replied to the interested party and explained my position.

[whateveronfire]

When I was a 0 poster (and it's not as if I'm a super active poster now), I always offered up my ebay user name so folks could check my feedback there. I've not had any trouble buying or selling on pl, but I get the hesitation on a relatively high ticket item.

[shovelhd]

I'll sell to anyone, but I only give deals to people I recognize.

[pdmtong]

I sold some pedals recently to a member who registered a few years ago and had zero posts. many thoughts echoed here crossed my mind but the communication was crisp and so we went ahead. no issues as expected. on both ends.

I am also aware that members with thousands of posts (like myself) don't always perform admirably (shipping delays, lousy packing, condition less than described) so a high post count is not a defacto surrogate for a smooth transaction.

it really comes down to the communication.

nervous about a high dollar item to a low/zero post count person? pick up the phone.

lots of folks here for a long time without joining much of the conversation. nothing wrong with that but I would encourage everyone who has a thought to chime in since a rising tide of information floats all boats and is to the benefit of everyone.

[jdh]

I have no posts but I like to buy stuff. So far, nobody has turned me down due to lack of posts.
I could go add comments to picture threads or whatever to up the post count, but that seems pointless.
I enjoy reading everyone's posts, but don't feel qualified to comment on most of the topics. Ironically, most of the useful info I might have would be in relation to for-sale posts, but I don't have enough posts for that forum.

John

[spinarelli]

I would not use pp friends and family. It is against paypal buying/selling rules. The second thing is to send it with tracking and request a signature. Also, insure the parcel for the actual value. It may cost more but the seller should pay for that especially since they have a zero rating.

[pdmtong]

I have no posts but I like to buy stuff. So far, nobody has turned me down due to lack of posts.
I could go add comments to picture threads or whatever to up the post count, but that seems pointless.
I enjoy reading everyone's posts, but don't feel qualified to comment on most of the topics. Ironically, most of the useful info I might have would be in relation to for-sale posts, but I don't have enough posts for that forum.John

agreed - too much of that and its transparent
not qualified? like the rest of us ARE qualified? hardly. all we have is our own experiences and whether those affirm or contradict, it is useful to hear. I'd welcome any input you have.

[colker]

The "no foreigners policy" tone on this thread is offensive and arrogant. Most of all it´s dumb because an open market is a better market.
Offensive because it openly questions the integrity of buyers. Without proof. If you cannot find ways as a seller to stay out of bad transactions that´s your problem not the buyer´s.. Basic business principle.
Don´t put banners saying you don´t serve foreigners.
Not replying to a buyer is lack of manners. Arrogance... not smart.
If you want less buyers.. you will sell for lower prices. Market rule. Buyers rejoice. Sellers will be poor. That´s dumb.
I have been buying on forum classifieds it´s been decades. I like buying used. It´s not only about the money and i can pay new if something bugs me. I am a buyer, not a seller. I find inflated prices here btw... along w/ some good deals.

[Cicli]

The "no foreigners policy" tone on this thread is offensive and arrogant. Most of all it´s dumb because an open market is a better market.
Offensive because it openly questions the integrity of buyers. Without proof. If you cannot find ways as a seller to stay out of bad transactions that´s your problem not the buyer´s.. Basic business principle.
Don´t put banners saying you don´t serve foreigners.
Not replying to a buyer is lack of manners. Arrogance... not smart.
If you want less buyers.. you will sell for lower prices. Market rule. Buyers rejoice. Sellers will be poor. That´s dumb.
I have been buying on forum classifieds it´s been decades. I like buying used. It´s not only about the money and i can pay new if something bugs me. I am a buyer, not a seller. I find inflated prices here btw... along w/ some good deals.


I dont view this as an open market. Private party transactions is more like it. I will only sell and buy from established members except on one occasion. I talked to the guy on the phone and shipped to a shop. No problem.

Paypal has made it far to easy to get hosed.
I filed a concern with paypal once over a transaction here and it caused all sorts of issues with the seller. After the fact (like 1 hour), I felt like a complete jergoff for doing it because they always side with the buyer, right or wrong. I figured it would just get a reply and a notification. Nope, one message to paypal and its hell for the seller untill he/she proves themselves right or the buyer backs down. I wont put anyone in that position so I will avoid the situation at all costs.

Once again, this is not a free market. Nobody has to sell to anyone for any reason.

People like to throw out the word "offensive" all to often. It gets a bit old.

[colker]

I dont view this as an open market. Private party transactions is more like it. I will only sell and buy from established members except on one occasion. I talked to the guy on the phone and shipped to a shop. No problem.

Paypal has made it far to easy to get hosed.
I filed a concern with paypal once over a transaction here and it caused all sorts of issues with the seller. After the fact (like 1 hour), I felt like a complete jergoff for doing it because they always side with the buyer, right or wrong. I figured it would just get a reply and a notification. Nope, one message to paypal and its hell for the seller untill he/she proves themselves right or the buyer backs down. I wont put anyone in that position so I will avoid the situation at all costs.

Once again, this is not a free market. Nobody has to sell to anyone for any reason.

I didn´t say this was an open market.. i said open markets are better.

I am an honest buyer and thankfully was never screwed by dishonest sellers but they are out there as well.

[oldpotatoe]

I apologize if this topic has been addressed previously.

When visiting the forum I typically utilize the classifieds section to part ways with various cycling related goods. Over the past few years I've sold hundreds of great things to tons of great people and have yet to had a bad transaction (despite having 2 things lost in the mail but everything was worked out).

Recently I was contacted by a member who had zero posts/feedback, despite being a member for a few years, inquiring into purchasing an item I posted for sale.

Honestly I didn't feel confident transacting due to the lack of activity on the forum and declined to pursue the transaction.

My question is that despite lack of forum activity, is there any logical reason to decline this transaction?

Would receipt of funds via PayPal's friend's & family adequately cover me?

Any collective insight would be helpful as I want to keep selling on this forum but want to be secure.

Thanks!

With a tracking number and PP, I'd sell it.

BUT, 'friends and family'? Unknown guy is neither.

[mgm777]

Would receipt of funds via PayPal's friend's & family adequately cover me?

Thanks!

So you want to use PP Friends & Family, as a way to avoid or minimize PP fees, which is a violation of PP policy for the transaction you described. Then, at the same time, you ponder if their full-fee transaction protection will cover you, in case your deal goes awry? All this because you are hesitant to sell to someone with a low post count. Hmmmm.

[raygunner]

So you want to use PP Friends & Family, as a way to avoid or minimize PP fees, which is a violation of PP policy for the transaction you described. Then, at the same time, you ponder if their full-fee transaction protection will cover you, in case your deal goes awry? All this because you are hesitant to sell to someone with a low post count. Hmmmm.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough for you in my OP, but don't try to parse my language.

My OP was seeking advice in order to be secure in my online transactions through this forum. Nothing more, nothing less.

As the classifieds are probably the most highly visited portion of this forum, I sought reassurance/advice from other established members, especially when fraudulent/shady transactions are a fact of life when selling anywhere online and should be a concern for all members.

This forum has been an amazing place for meeting people, good info also selling/buying awesome crap (my fave) and I'd like it to remain as such.

[raygunner]

The "no foreigners policy" tone on this thread is offensive and arrogant. Most of all it´s dumb because an open market is a better market.
Offensive because it openly questions the integrity of buyers. Without proof. If you cannot find ways as a seller to stay out of bad transactions that´s your problem not the buyer´s.. Basic business principle.
Don´t put banners saying you don´t serve foreigners.
Not replying to a buyer is lack of manners. Arrogance... not smart.
If you want less buyers.. you will sell for lower prices. Market rule. Buyers rejoice. Sellers will be poor. That´s dumb.
I have been buying on forum classifieds it´s been decades. I like buying used. It´s not only about the money and i can pay new if something bugs me. I am a buyer, not a seller. I find inflated prices here btw... along w/ some good deals.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or trying to conflate my OP with some obtuse political discourse. Either way, bravo!

[jbreebs]

I have no posts but I like to buy stuff. So far, nobody has turned me down due to lack of posts.
I could go add comments to picture threads or whatever to up the post count, but that seems pointless.
I enjoy reading everyone's posts, but don't feel qualified to comment on most of the topics. Ironically, most of the useful info I might have would be in relation to for-sale posts, but I don't have enough posts for that forum.

John

I'm in pretty much the exact same boat on all points. I've never had problems with buying things from anyone due to a low post count, and everything has gone smoothly for both parties. I don't always feel like I can contribute to the conversation in the general forum, and I'm not allowed to comment in the classifieds yet. I totally understand why, but it's a bit frustrating

[colker]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough for you in my OP, but don't try to parse my language.

My OP was seeking advice in order to be secure in my online transactions through this forum. Nothing more, nothing less.

As the classifieds are probably the most highly visited portion of this forum, I sought reassurance/advice from other established members, especially when fraudulent/shady transactions are a fact of life when selling anywhere online and should be a concern for all members.

This forum has been an amazing place for meeting people, good info also selling/buying awesome crap (my fave) and I'd like it to remain as such.

There are plenty of ways to insure your transaction. Otoh you can never be 100% sure you won´t be s·$%&ed when dealing w/ an "internet buddy"; i know stories of highly charismatic cycling forum members who out of the blue disappeared leaving some very bad transactions behind.
So.. if it´s about secure transactions why mention new forum members who interacted less w/ you? Social interaction may trigger some intuitive feeling of safety but is no guarantee..
You want secure transactions is one thing. You don´t want to sell to just anyone is another. ..

[kookmyers]

I am a new member and understand why I can't post, but I also don't seem to be able to even respond to anything in the classified section. Is it meant to be set up that way or am I doing something wrong?

[Louis]

I am a new member and understand why I can't post, but I also don't seem to be able to even respond to anything in the classified section. Is it meant to be set up that way or am I doing something wrong?

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=1595593&postcount=1

3.) Any Forum members will not be allowed to post a message (new or responding to an existing one) in the Classified section until they have at least 30 postings in the other sections of the Forum and have been a member for at least 30 days. We have enabled the forum software from vBulletin to enforce this rule, and you will see a message stating that you do not have permission to access this page if you try to post in the section before you are allowed to do so.

[RoadWhale]

For the last couple of weeks I've been watching a titanium bike frame listed in the classified section here. I've not pm'd the Seller because I felt my low post count precluded my participating in the Buy/Sell listings. I understand that there are ways to quickly boost a post count but I want to honor the structure and rules of the Forum. Like a previous poster stated, my experience is limited and I find myself gathering knowledge here rather than having anything meaningful to contribute. Also contributing to my low post count is the lesson I learned early on when a member reminded me that most questions can be answered with a search rather than with a post. Now the positive aspect to all this is that I've saved a lot of money by not purchasing many things that I covet when I browse the classified section! lol