Serotta carbon seatstays (Legend ST)

[bluesea]

What are the ride effects of Serotta carbon stays on steel and ti frames? Can you tell the difference in ride compared to an all ti/steel frame?

[oldpotatoe]

What are the ride effects of Serotta carbon stays on steel and ti frames? Can you tell the difference in ride compared to an all ti/steel frame?

Put 4 people in a room and ask about carbon back ends, get 5 opinions. I went to interbike right when this was brand new..ask one frame builder, 'makes the ride stiffer', ask the one 3 doors down, 'makes the ride more comfy'....:p

I think it was the 'idea of the day'..as the bike market continued to be pretty flat. I think a well made steel or titanium frame didn't benefit from a carbon back end being glued in there. IMHO, of course.

[weisan]

Blue pal, I don't know how much the carbon rear triangle contributes to the absolutely sublime ride of my steel Serotta CXIi..all I can tell you is, it rides really nice and smooth, stiff and responsive without sacrificing comfort.
I am comparing it to my other full carbon, ti and steel bikes. If they were all rated on an overall scale of 10, this one gets a 9 at least.
I think the Serotta guys know a thing or two about building a good bike.

[bjf]

I have a Ti Legend with carbon stays, and another with Ti stays. Both are custom (not custom for me), so there are other small differences, but they are about the same size and dimensions overall. With the same set of wheels, the carbon stay bike is slightly more comfortable over bumpy surfaces.

[hummus_aquinas]

What's the durability over long term usage? I've always been skeptical of the plastic to metal bond and its longevity. Can anyone comment on that?

[weisan]

>> What's the durability over long term usage?

I seldom give a thought on long term durability. And I hear pals talked about it here all the time and it's funny... coz' hardly anyone rides or keeps their bikes for longer than 5 years or 50,000 miles before flipping. Maybe you do, but that's in the minority.

Personally, I won't worry too much about it. Even non-carbon bikes can break down under normal usage.

[Bradford]

What's the durability over long term usage? I've always been skeptical of the plastic to metal bond and its longevity. Can anyone comment on that?

I have an ST rear on my Legend, going on 13 years since I picked it up. Dave Thompson had it before me two years before that. So, based on a sample size of one, no problem.

[bluesea]

Thanks weisan and bjf, for the first hand experience!

Any comments on the ST dropout connection? I've done some reading, and looks like its user and hopefully klutz (me) replaceable.

P.S. Bradford, how may bearing replacements in those 13 years? If you had any comments on ride qualities of the Legend ST, it would be appreciated.

[Mark McM]

[QUOTE=weisan;2131176I seldom give a thought on long term durability. And I hear pals talked about it here all the time and it's funny... coz' hardly anyone rides or keeps their bikes for longer than 5 years or 50,000 miles before flipping. Maybe you do, but that's in the minority.[/QUOTE]

I currently have 5 road bikes (each gets ridden regularly). Their average age is 13 years, and only 1 is less than 5 years old.

[Gern]

When I first got my Legend ST in 2003, I noticed a better ride on rough pavement when compared with my then-current Carl Strong 853 bike. It felt almost as if the rear tire had lost some pressure on rough pavement. I really like the Serotta, although it's not as if the Strong rode badly. My brother currently rides it as his only bike.

Interestingly, I don't have that same sense of difference when riding back to back with my current TIME. They both ride well, and I almost feel like the TIME is more comfortable. The TIME seems to handle quicker as well. Serotta is on Zondas with 27mm tires and the TIME on Mavic 40c with 25mm tires. I have had no maintenance issues, and honestly, I haven't looked at all at the dropout to stay joints in the past few years. It seems to work fine.

[weisan]

I currently have 5 road bikes (each gets ridden regularly). Their average age is 13 years, and only 1 is less than 5 years old.

Mark pal, I already know you are one of the them. :D

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/mens_cycle_costume_victorian_2.jpg

[colker]

I currently have 5 road bikes (each gets ridden regularly). Their average age is 13 years, and only 1 is less than 5 years old.

My new bike was bought in 2002 and made in 1997. Why should i get rid of it?

[Ken Robb]

Mark pal, I already know you are one of the them. :D

http://www.oldbike.eu/museum/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/mens_cycle_costume_victorian_2.jpg

This is Grant Petersen with the latest Rivendell. :D

[Bradford]

...Bradford, how may bearing replacements in those 13 years? If you had any comments on ride qualities of the Legend ST, it would be appreciated.

Zero bearing replacements so far. I lube the pivot every couple of months and it has been fine, however I do know where to find the sticky on replacing and expect that day to come eventually.

I love the ride of my Legend, which probably explains why I haven't needed a new bike in the last 13 years. I regularly switch between my touring bike, tandem, and Legend and always say "boy, I love this bike" as I roll down the street. Perhaps there is a better riding bike out there, but it is certainly enough bike for me. If (when?) I get a new bike, it will because I'm adding a new ride for a different purpose, but this bike won't be sold until my wife clears out my stuff after my passing.

[bluesea]

^ Great testimony--thanks!

I'd like to focus shift the subject somewhat.

How does tire clearance trend with the Legend ST?

[pdmtong]

for some folks, a carbon back end kills the attraction and resale.

when they want a ti frame, they want an all ti frame.

same thing with the IF SSR SEC I once had. the more expensive carbon monostay devalued the frame in the eyes of some.

if you decide to go ST...probably the greatest first post from any member on this board
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=144280&amp

[weisan]

I don't know about the Legend, my CXII allows ample clearance up to 27mm vitt CG pave.

[weisan]

probably the greatest first post from any member on this board
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=144280&amp

Not probably...but Absolutely. :D

[happycampyer]

for some folks, a carbon back end kills the attraction and resale.

when they want a ti frame, they want an all ti frame.

same thing with the IF SSR SEC I once had. the more expensive carbon monostay devalued the frame in the eyes of some.

if you decide to go ST...probably the greatest first post from any member on this board
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=144280&ampThat post deserves a wikipedia page.

First off, I'm pretty sure the OP meant "seatstays" and not "chainstays."

As pdmtong notes, for a purist, the carbon stays detract from the value. Particularly for a Serotta, since Serotta's double-swaged seatstays are perhaps the most elegant ti seatstays ever made (and it's unlikely that anyone will ever go to the expense in the future to duplicate them). pdmtong and I discussed this at the time I placed an order for a Legend SE. And as all ti frames go, the Legend is by far the nicest riding I've owned or ridden (which like regrets in My Way, I've had a few).

That said, when TimP was selling his coupled Legend ST, I couldn't resist picking it up. I've never done a proper back-to-back comparison, but my fastest descents ever (extended, 20-minute descents in Colorado averaging close to 50 mph) were on that bike. I don't think all carbon seatstays are created equal. I think the ST stays were and are something special, and are one of the reasons the Ottrott is such an amazing bike. Dave K has written about the way the micro-suspension works.

So, as I said a while back in another thread, from an aesthetic perspective, the all-ti Legend is the hands down winner. But from a pure ride quality perspective, the ST stays really do work.

As far as durability goes, the bonding process that Serotta used was extensively tested, and was shown to be incredibly strong. The bearings do require some minimal maintenance, but if you can live with the aesthetics the Legend ST is a wonderful machine.

[bluesea]

Title changed, for aesthetics if no other reason.

Agree about the looks of the carbon mono ST, as you probably need to love the bike to get along with it. I alway thought the f3 might fit better aesthetically on a Big Leg Emma.