Simple Green?

[Clancy]

Over on the PBMA website a member stated to never use Simple Green, it's been shown to cause "hydrogen embrittlement". First I've heard anything negative about SG. I've been using it for years in my Parks chain cleaner as well as general cleaning of the bike. Easy to source and inexpensive.

Anyone have specific info or data on the dangers of Simple Green.

Any good alternatives that are equally as inexpensive?

[thirdgenbird]

I use green works all purpose cleaner for general bike use. Ive never tried cleaning a chain with it, but it does a fine job at giving a dirty bike a bath.

I got hooked on the stuff when I saw a well regarded auto detailer use it to clean a dirty dash board and then turn right around and use it to clean windows without leaving a streak.

[Mikej]

Over on the PBMA website a member stated to never use Simple Green, it's been shown to cause "hydrogen embrittlement". First I've heard anything negative about SG. I've been using it for years in my Parks chain cleaner as well as general cleaning of the bike. Easy to source and inexpensive.

Anyone have specific info or data on the dangers of Simple Green.

Any good alternatives that are equally as inexpensive?

It's true and a pretty well known excepted fact. SG actually makes a bike version formulated to be more gentle on the composition of various alloys, mainly the chain. Diesel fuel or kerosene- otherwise I like the new wd40 bike specific foam cleaner. I'm not worried about 7$ though ������

[William]

I've been using SG to clean chains and other bits for years and never had an issue that I can tell. No broken chains (knock on wood!) etc... Works well for cleaning purposes.

Show me some good evidence and I might reconsider, but at this point I'm not going to worry about.








William

[eddief]

It might be fine for you chain, but some of those products eat nice shiny anodized bike parts. Watch were it goes.

[Mikej]

[QUOTE=William;2130412]I've been using SG to clean chains and other bits for years and never had an issue that I can tell. No broken chains (knock on wood!) etc... Works well for cleaning purposes.

Show me some good evidence and I might reconsider, but at this point I'm not going to worry about.





Zinn went through it over on Velo news in 2005 - yes eat eats chains

[YesNdeed]

My mechanic advises not to use it for general cleaning as it breaks down and cracks anything with rubber, o-rings and the like. I like to use it on chains/cassettes, but I had used a lot of it to help seat tubeless tires and can attest that dry rotting seems to happen a lot faster with use of SG, so out it goes. For on the bike cleaning of drivetrain parts, I'll look into the bike specific version.

[dgauthier]

The generic Simple Green can mar aluminum. From the FAQ's section of the Simple Green web site (http://simplegreen.com/faqs/):

"(...) aluminum is a soft metal that easily corrodes with unprotected exposure to water. The aqueous-base and alkalinity of Simple Green All-Purpose Cleaner can accelerate the corrosion process. Therefore, contact times for unprotected or unpainted aluminum surfaces should be kept as brief as the job will allow - never for more than 10 minutes. Large cleaning jobs should be conducted in smaller-area stages to achieve lower contact time. Rinsing after cleaning should always be extremely thorough - paying special attention to flush out cracks and crevices (...)"

[William]

[QUOTE=William;2130412]I've been using SG to clean chains and other bits for years and never had an issue that I can tell. No broken chains (knock on wood!) etc... Works well for cleaning purposes.

Show me some good evidence and I might reconsider, but at this point I'm not going to worry about.





Zinn went through it over on Velo news in 2005 - yes eat eats chains


...Over the last couple of weeks I have received a good deal of e-mail about the potential problems people encounter when they soak chains in Simple Green for an extended period.

http://www.velonews.com/2005/11/bikes-and-tech/technical-faq/technical-qa-with-lennard-zinn-not-so-simple-green-2_9216


Well, I see what they are saying, but I never have soaked my chain for "long periods" of time. Spritz/work in a bit/rinse/dry/lube is my MO so I doubt it's really doing much at all to the metal.








William

[benb]

There are even cheaper options so I'd never use SG just cause it can theoretically cause issues. I do use some Park chain cleaner in my chain machine, which I don't use very often so the chain cleaner goes a long way.

But I mostly just use Isopropyl alcohol and water. That stuff is REALLY cheap and works fine.

If you use the right lube you can go a really really long time before you have to use something like a chain machine + chain cleaner chemicals, at least on a road bike.

[54ny77]

very simple: just thin it out. the stuff is very concentrated to begin with.

i've been using it for 20+ years. never an issue.

[FriarQuade]

It can cause issues with extremely long exposure times, talking months of soaking parts in the stuff. In practice it's a complete non-issue. The US Air Force tested it for use on aircraft at one point and it didn't pass due to their concerns of being able to completely rinse the solvent out of all the tight spots inside the aircraft. When it sat there for months/years it would accelerate corrosion. Anybody that is saying Simple Green is bad for typical bike use is just fear mongering.

[54ny77]

Yep.

A gallon jug, properly diluted, lasts a loooooooooooong time for the average user.

If i'm hunkering down for an afternoon of serious cleaning of bikes (or car/engine) I'll pour a small amount into a clean sprayer and fill the bottle with hot tap water. That works even better to loosen grime.

Scrub as needed with various brushes, then rinse with hose. Presto, clean & even more diluted.

Anybody that is saying Simple Green is bad for typical bike use is just fear mongering.

[Lewis Moon]

Simple Green was too dangerous so I switched to 18 molar H2SO4. Really satisfied with the results.

YMMV.

[Johnny P]

I don't like the smell of simple green so I use citrisolv instead. I would never use H2SO4.

[cd_davis]

Simple Green has an aviation formulation perfectly suited for bikes, eliminating all the potential problems/side effects mentioned. http://simplegreen.com/industrial/products/extreme-aircraft-precision-cleaner/

I've used it for years on multiple bikes and it is typically sold through industrial or aviation type distributors. A gallon lasts forever and you just spray it on drive train full strength while washing the bike.
Chris

[Mark McM]

Oh, wait ... that's Soylent Green ... never mind.

[pdonk]

I soaked a chain ring in it and teeth actually disintegrated after 2 days. I would only use it in a wipe on wipe off application.

[FriarQuade]

I soaked a chain ring in it and teeth actually disintegrated after 2 days. I would only use it in a wipe on wipe off application.

Perhaps your ring was so covered in grime that you didn't realize how worn it was? No way an aluminum chainring would ''disintegrate" in an off the shelf solvent in a mater of days.

[bitpuddle]

Simple Green makes an "Aircraft and Aluminum" formula that should be safe for most surfaces. I get gallon jugs from Amazon.

[Tin Turtle]

I use it in my chain cleaning gizmo for the cross and mountain bike.. not for the Serottas. I work at a large motorcycle dealer and I turned them onto using it on the epoxy floor in the photo booth, but we are very, very careful not to get it on the bikes.

[Louis]

I've been using SG on steel and AL frames and AL components for ages. (at least 20 years)

Never had a problem.

[zennmotion]

If you use the right lube in the right amount in the first place, there's no need for cleaning products beyond dish detergent and water.

[pdonk]

Perhaps your ring was so covered in grime that you didn't realize how worn it was? No way an aluminum chainring would ''disintegrate" in an off the shelf solvent in a mater of days.

Probable. The teeth were very brittle and broke apart. I may still have the ring. If I do I'll post pics when I get home.

[Seramount]

a dive partner soaked regulator parts in SG, some of the alum pieces didn't fare well.

only thing I've ever used SG for on the bike is to try and remove cleat scuff marks from white Look pedals. didn't work all that great...

really dislike the odor of it, stuff is a meh product, imo.

[Big Dan]

Over 15 years of use with no issues.
Always diluted with water.

[purpurite]

The claims of SG causing rubber brittlement are interesting to me.

More than twenty years ago we figured out that Simple Green could actually soften rubber tires that we were used in dirt/clay RC racing. Cleaning the tires off after a race using simple green made the tires more pliable and softer, and not only did they work better, but they lasted longer.

I have seen Simple Green damage paint, streak shoddy anodizing, tarnish unprotected aluminim and a few other things if not diluted properly, but I have never seen it cause drying and cracking of anything.

[Corso]

I left a headset in a covered glass jar of Simple Green once for de-greasing. Forgot about it. (yes, my fault).

When I retrieved it a few weeks latter, the bearings were fine, but the aluminum parts had this weird “worm hole” engraving patterns… like it was acid-etched.

Wasn’t expecting that!!!!

I still use SG for cleaning, but not soaking.

[Corso]

Simple Green has an aviation formulation perfectly suited for bikes, eliminating all the potential problems/side effects mentioned. http://simplegreen.com/industrial/products/extreme-aircraft-precision-cleaner/

I've used it for years on multiple bikes and it is typically sold through industrial or aviation type distributors. A gallon lasts forever and you just spray it on drive train full strength while washing the bike.
Chris

The fact that they make this (vs the regular) says it all. Thanks for the tip.

[Schmed]

Simple Green was too dangerous so I switched to 18 molar H2SO4. Really satisfied with the results.

YMMV.

That'd do the trick! Just add a touch of water and get a free hot acid bath! :cool:

[Lewis Moon]

That'd do the trick! Just add a touch of water and get a free hot acid bath! :cool:

Add in some Potassium Dichromate to get rid of organics!

[William]

Concerning the Aviation formula...

The fact that they make this (vs the regular) says it all. Thanks for the tip.


It can cause issues with extremely long exposure times, talking months of soaking parts in the stuff. In practice it's a complete non-issue. The US Air Force tested it for use on aircraft at one point and it didn't pass due to their concerns of being able to completely rinse the solvent out of all the tight spots inside the aircraft. When it sat there for months/years it would accelerate corrosion. Anybody that is saying Simple Green is bad for typical bike use is just fear mongering.


That's why you use it for on&off cleaning, not soaking.











William

[giordana93]

Concerning the Aviation formula...







That's why you use it for on&off cleaning, not soaking.











William

Yes. Every time there has been an issue, it has been from soaking. AL fares very poorly but even steel can rust. No Bueno. Use it thinned to spray down drive chains, frames, wheels, etc., but not for a good old-fashioned dunk in solvent and shake. It is water based. Come to think of it, I prolly would not soak parts in a citrus degreaser either. Wrong tool for the job.

[bikingshearer]

Simple Green was too dangerous so I switched to 18 molar H2SO4. Really satisfied with the results.

YMMV.

Can't resist responding with a ditty I learned in my ill-spent youth:

"Willie was a chemist,
Willie is no more,
For what he thought was H2O
Was H2SO4."

[acoffin]

I would never use H2SO4.

Fear mongererer!

I learned of sg's corrosivness the first time I let some aluminum bits soak overnight. Now I just dillute it down and rinse the anything after soaking for short periods. Tried green works but did not like it as well.

[Schmed]

Can't resist responding with a ditty I learned in my ill-spent youth:

"Willie was a chemist,
Willie is no more,
For what he thought was H2O
Was H2SO4."

My 6th grade science teacher had that one on a poster in his classroom.

Here's another:

Two guys walk into a bar.
First guy orders an H2O
Second guy says "I'll have an H2O Too"
Second guy dies

[William]

I used to work with H2SO4 quite a bit in another life. Be very very careful rinsing out bottles with DI H2O!!!

I also had fun with…
HCI
HF
H3PO4
CH3COOH
HNO3
P2H4
AsH3
C2HCI3
C3H6O
C3H8O
HBr
BN
to name a few.

Simple Green? Eeeeh, that's kids stuff. :)





William

[Dromen]

Simple Green has an aviation formulation perfectly suited for bikes, eliminating all the potential problems/side effects mentioned. http://simplegreen.com/industrial/products/extreme-aircraft-precision-cleaner/

I've used it for years on multiple bikes and it is typically sold through industrial or aviation type distributors. A gallon lasts forever and you just spray it on drive train full strength while washing the bike.
Chris

+1 - dilute per instructions.

Amazon for gallons.



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[Clancy]

So, it seems as the following is a summary of the more learned opinions.

SG should be used in a diluted form and briefly, rinsing throughly.

With that said, if that is an accurate summation, I'm going to continue to use in my Parks chain cleaner and in a spray bottle.

However, is there a cleaning product that is similar, not potentially harmful, and as inexpensive?

I'm not opposed to bicycle specific cleaning products so much as I wonder if the added expense is necessary. Bicycles are not unique, instead made of the same materials as so many other items, cars and motorcycles for example.

Chain lube may be the exception, but even then I wonder.