OT: Freelance or 'gig' economy

[Zoodles]

I've always been skeptical of the 'gig' economy as a race to the bottom or as something to do between jobs but with a sizable portion of jobs shifting in this direction and an opportunity to jump this way myself I was hoping to hear some firsthand experience.

Have people equaled their peers in salary, is flexibility attainable (or is it a non-stop fear induced hustle)?

Any non-creative types that have made this work?

Cheers!

[R3awak3n]

I have been freelance for over 4 years but in a creative industry so I guess its not what you want to hear.

[weaponsgrade]

I have friend who works as a consultant for a bank. I wouldn't describe it as flexible. He's expected to be in everyday at a certain time, etc. just as if he was a full-time salaried employee. His rate is a little higher as a consultant, but he doesn't get any benefits like paid vacations, health care, etc. He's been doing this for many years. He had one gig that lasted a good five years I think and another just over a year before the fund ran into problems and said they had to let him go.

I've also known software developers that worked as consultants. They seemed to put in the same long hours as everybody else and also didn't get assigned the cool new projects as the company would rather make the investment in the full-time salaried people. If you happen to be a rockstar-type developer then maybe you can call more of your own shots.

If you're talking driving an Uber, I suppose there is that flexibility, but I don't know anyone doing that and the reports I've read about Uber suggest that the drivers don't make as much as what the company claims.

[gemship]

I have friend who works as a consultant for a bank. I wouldn't describe it as flexible. He's expected to be in everyday at a certain time, etc. just as if he was a full-time salaried employee. His rate is a little higher as a consultant, but he doesn't get any benefits like paid vacations, health care, etc. He's been doing this for many years. He had one gig that lasted a good five years I think and another just over a year before the fund ran into problems and said they had to let him go.

I've also known software developers that worked as consultants. They seemed to put in the same long hours as everybody else and also didn't get assigned the cool new projects as the company would rather make the investment in the full-time salaried people. If you happen to be a rockstar-type developer then maybe you can call more of your own shots.

If you're talking driving an Uber, I suppose there is that flexibility, but I don't know anyone doing that and the reports I've read about Uber suggest that the drivers don't make as much as what the company claims.

Regarding Uber, how can anyone get ahead when they are driving their own car that they spend money on?

[shovelhd]

This could quickly turn into a political rant fest so PLEASE DON'T LET IT.

My perspective comes from someone who just returned to work after almost a year after a layoff, that has worked as an IT contractor in the past, and has a 26 year old son who has never had a full time job and works as a journalist in the gig economy.

On the plus side, I have never made more money than when I was contracting, even when vacations, healthcare costs, and insurance costs are added in. You get paid for every hour you work, and I had plenty of "overtime". As long as the project or contract budget can support it, you can work a lot of hours.

However, that was three years ago. I've learned an awful lot during my time out of work in 2016 and 2017. I've watched automation and the swell of H1-B candidates decimate the IT job market. It is absolutely a race to the bottom, and I don't think that this is exclusive to IT. This is something that you are going to have to be conscious of if you depend on temporary work, as you will continually be at risk of being unemployed, with no unemployment compensation. It used to be easy to hop from contract to contract with no gaps, but I don't think that's true anymore. There is serious competition for work, which is driving the compensation down. It's just the opposite of what you hear businesses cry about all the time, that they "can't get good people". They can't get good people at a world economy wage, but this is no longer true. More and more people are willing to work for less, for some, a lot less, for the exact same job. You have the millenials graduating from college with debts to pay, and older workers working longer either because they can, or because they've been laid off in an "expense reduction" like I was. The end result is less jobs and more candidates. My brother in law is a CIO at a small company in CT which is growing rapidly. For every IT position he posts, he gets over 1,000 resumes.

The other trend I've seen is job reclassification. Take IT project management for example. They will post an opening as a Project Coordinator at an expected salary for that position, but the job description and experience requirements will be for a Project Manager, which has a much higher level of responsibility and visibility, and should command a higher wage. The compensation difference is 35%-50% less. People are taking these jobs.

My son is currently doing freelance work for USA Today. His compensation is below the poverty level. We writes for them 4 days per week, collaborates with FT employees every day, and is expected to attend meetings and be present on Slack for every day he is working.

The gig economy is the new "part-time". No benefits, no paid time off, no retirement. I firmly believe that it will transform the workforce in my lifetime. There will be exceptions, like jobs that require relationship management where consistency is paramount, but I believe that most jobs will be gig jobs, and that it will happen in my lifetime.

These are some things to think about.

[jumphigher]

The gig economy is the new "part-time". No benefits, no paid time off, no retirement. I firmly believe that it will transform the workforce in my lifetime. There will be exceptions, like jobs that require relationship management where consistency is paramount, but I believe that most jobs will be gig jobs, and that it will happen in my lifetime.

I agree with this, in fact I think the US is well on it's way. It makes you wonder what life will be like for huge numbers of people 20+ years from now. Scary, imo.

[FlashUNC]

Something something labor seizing the means of production.

[Black Dog]

I think that in the European Union, you have to hire someone full time if they work for you beyond a set period. You can not let them go and hire someone else to continue the same job. The rules around contract workers are quit strict. North America would be well served to do the same. Hard to see this happening when even government agencies do the same thing though. Race to the bottom in deed.

[fa63]

Before I went back for my PhD full time, I decided to freelance in a non-creative field (civil engineer) for a year, just to see how it would work. I was able to match my previous full-time annual salary in about half a year as an independent consultant. I am not sure if I could sustain that in the long term, but I had a good network of connections and that helped a lot (and still does). I still do a bit of consulting while in grad school (about 400-500 hours worth a year, so about 8-10 hours a week).

That said, there are couple big items to mention:

- I was able to get on wife's insurance plan
- I have a supportive wife who makes a very good living herself (more than I did even as a full-time employee)
- We do not have kids
- In my case, there was not a ton of flexibility; for example, I couldn't take off the next six months after making enough money the first six because my clients wanted me to be available year-round.

[fiamme red]

The gig economy is the new "part-time". No benefits, no paid time off, no retirement. I firmly believe that it will transform the workforce in my lifetime. There will be exceptions, like jobs that require relationship management where consistency is paramount, but I believe that most jobs will be gig jobs, and that it will happen in my lifetime.Well said. Gigs depend on how well a company, an industry, and the economy in general are doing. I know a few highly-skilled people cobbling together a living with a patchwork of gigs not by choice, but to survive. And their health insurance isn't subsidized by the employer.

[SlackMan]

I think that in the European Union, you have to hire someone full time if they work for you beyond a set period. You can not let them go and hire someone else to continue the same job. The rules around contract workers are quit strict. North America would be well served to do the same. Hard to see this happening when even government agencies do the same thing though. Race to the bottom in deed.

I'm not so sure NA would be well served. The overall EU unemployment rate in the last quarter of last year was 8.5%. The EU youth unemployment rate was 18.4%.

[93legendti]

Not much to add, other than a friend put me on an email list if i ever wanted to do contract legal work - the offers always seem to be document reviews.

For the longest time the offers were for $20/hour. Yesterday, an email came thru and the pay is now $22/hour. For a lawyer.


I haven't been tempted yet.

[93legendti]

Not much to add, other than a friend put me on an email list if i ever wanted to do contract legal work - the offers always seem to be document reviews.

For the longest time the offers were for $20/hour. Yesterday, an email came thru and the pay is now $22/hour. For a lawyer.


I haven't been tempted yet.

[marciero]

Reading with interest. I've kept abreast of the job market in computational and data analytical fields for the past couple of years. My school commissioned consultants to do a report on this, and I've had ongoing discussions with perhaps a dozen area technology employers as well. Everything I've heard speaks to critical need and lots of opportunities. Bureau of Labor Statistics projects 20-30% increase by 2024 in opportunities as well, for jobs such as data analyst, business analyst, etc. This suggest that people in these fields would not be forced into the gig economy.
But I will say that I have been focused on more entry-level opportunities (for example, would not include data scientist) and that this area is different than the situation with IT that shovel describes (though some overlap).

On the other hand, that there does seem to be a commoditization that is occurring around some tech jobs. A lot companies simply hire out narrowly defined jobs like coding in specific languages, often overseas, and on the cheap. Also, some ostensibly permanent full time jobs are really project work in disguise. I only have some anecdotal stories on this but apparently this is a part of start-up culture, when after working feverishly on a project for a 18 months people are just let go. This is happening in Europe also, according an article in NYT just last week I think, and not just in tech.

[2LeftCleats]

One of the things I find unfair is that most people in the gig economy are independent contractors, which means they have to pay both ends of social security. My daughter does such work as a massage therapist. Her relatively meager income is offset in large part by her exemptions/deductions so that federal and state income tax aren't very large. But the Social Security piece is huge.

[shovelhd]

I would counter that entry level is not immune to these kinds of changes. The company that laid me off has a new data science center near a major university. They have a handful of FTE employees that staff the center. The rest are a rotating cast of 30-50 student interns that do the actual coding and work, and they do most of the data science work for this Fortune 100 company.

I am all for student internships, work study, etc. I am a product of cooperative education. However, it's one thing to use students to augment staff. It's quite another to build an entire department around them. One could make the case that this is better than offshoring the work, which it is, but what is the future for these interns when they graduate? Practically none at this company. The possibility of a FTE job has always been a part of student internships, but not with this model.

[marciero]

I would counter that entry level is not immune to these kinds of changes. The company that laid me off has a new data science center near a major university. They have a handful of FTE employees that staff the center. The rest are a rotating cast of 30-50 student interns that do the actual coding and work, and they do most of the data science work for this Fortune 100 company.

I am all for student internships, work study, etc. I am a product of cooperative education. However, it's one thing to use students to augment staff. It's quite another to build an entire department around them. One could make the case that this is better than offshoring the work, which it is, but what is the future for these interns when they graduate? Practically none at this company. The possibility of a FTE job has always been a part of student internships, but not with this model.

That sounds like quite a program. Sounds like a bit of the commoditization i was talking about. It is unfortunate if collaborative programs incentivise business models like this. One would think that would not be a good long term strategy for the company. Still, depending on how the work is structured, can be great experience for students. These are paid internships, correct?

[Tandem Rider]

I work for a Fortune 100 company, nearly any position/department that can be off shored is or soon will be. Purchasing? done. Billing? done. IT? working on it. Engineering? partially done, probably more to come. Manufacturing? some of it done years ago, probably more to come. All that's left untouched is boots on the ground service people. That's only because it's impossible to ship your building offshore to get it serviced.

I think the only way to thrive/survive the race to the bottom economically intact is by positioning yourself in in an occupation that requires skilled on site work. Publicly traded companies are required to earn as much profit for the investors as possible, if moving off shore increases those profits, most will do it, usually with little to no regard for the livelihood of employees.

[Climb01742]

It seems inescapable that more of the economy is moving toward freelance/project based employment. I wonder what the ramifications of that will be?

Post WWII, much of our economy and society was based on stable employment and all the things that stable, predictable, long-range incomes fostered: getting married, having kids, buying a home, consumerism, saving for retirement and college. Both unionized work and long corporate careers gave families the security to plan and act financially for the long haul.

Without a sense of financial stability, I wonder how these behaviors will change? The interplay between financial/economic reality and human behaviors is pretty fascinating stuff.

[shovelhd]

That sounds like quite a program. Sounds like a bit of the commoditization i was talking about. It is unfortunate if collaborative programs incentivise business models like this. One would think that would not be a good long term strategy for the company. Still, depending on how the work is structured, can be great experience for students. These are paid internships, correct?

I don't know about these internships in particular, but the trend is unpaid. That's a whole 'nother discussion.

[marciero]

I don't know about these internships in particular, but the trend is unpaid. That's a whole 'nother discussion.

This is different from what I am hearing, though my experience is quite narrow. For the local employers we work with, paid internship is a given. They favor them, partly, I guess, since that confers some seriousness to the job and sense of responsibility on the part of the student. But we are talking much smaller numbers of students (and dollars). Most of the companies are small, but there are some larger ones, like Unum, which has professional development tracks for its interns to transition them to full time jobs.

[Tandem Rider]

It seems inescapable that more of the economy is moving toward freelance/project based employment. I wonder what the ramifications of that will be?

Post WWII, much of our economy and society was based on stable employment and all the things that stable, predictable, long-range incomes fostered: getting married, having kids, buying a home, consumerism, saving for retirement and college. Both unionized work and long corporate careers gave families the security to plan and act financially for the long haul.

Without a sense of financial stability, I wonder how these behaviors will change? The interplay between financial/economic reality and human behaviors is pretty fascinating stuff.
Most of the middle class growth was post WWII, I think most of that was driven by the very factors you described. As short term financial prospects increasingly become the largest driver in corporate decisions, temporary workers will become more and more common. Corporations are trying to limit their costs and liabilities such as health care, vacations, retirement, Human Resources, and unemployment benefits. Temporary and contract workers allow them to do that.

[Climb01742]

Most of the middle class growth was post WWII, I think most of that was driven by the very factors you described. As short term financial prospects increasingly become the largest driver in corporate decisions, temporary workers will become more and more common. Corporations are trying to limit their costs and liabilities such as health care, vacations, retirement, Human Resources, and unemployment benefits. Temporary and contract workers allow them to do that.

Agree. And to be clear, I understand why businesses are moving toward contract work; it makes sense financially. But it's a big domino that's falling and it will reverberate. As a country and society, we would be well served to at least address the ripples and maybe even plan for them.:D

Project work could be an economic boomerang that winds up biting companies if workers, who are paid less, ultimately buy less. Henry Ford paid his workers twice what other car companies did, not because he was kind but smart enough to want his workers to be able to buy the cars they made.

[echappist]

This is different from what I am hearing, though my experience is quite narrow. For the local employers we work with, paid internship is a given. They favor them, partly, I guess, since that confers some seriousness to the job and sense of responsibility on the part of the student. But we are talking much smaller numbers of students (and dollars). Most of the companies are small, but there are some larger ones, like Unum, which has professional development tracks for its interns to transition them to full time jobs.
i think what @shovelhd may be referring is co-op/intern programs where the program counts as academic credits. best part about it is that students actually pay for the privilege of such programs (to the higher ed institution) while receiving no compensation in return

i think actual unpaid internships that are uncoupled to co-op programs were phased out a few years ago
I work for a Fortune 100 company, nearly any position/department that can be off shored is or soon will be. Purchasing? done. Billing? done. IT? working on it. Engineering? partially done, probably more to come. Manufacturing? some of it done years ago, probably more to come. All that's left untouched is boots on the ground service people. That's only because it's impossible to ship your building offshore to get it serviced.

I think the only way to thrive/survive the race to the bottom economically intact is by positioning yourself in in an occupation that requires skilled on site work. Publicly traded companies are required to earn as much profit for the investors as possible, if moving off shore increases those profits, most will do it, usually with little to no regard for the livelihood of employees.

that's the premise that goes unchallenged. Maximizing shareholder value was something that became widely adopted in the 80's. there is no law requiring that shareholder value needs to be maximized, but companies choose to operate this way.

[54ny77]

regarding college co-ops, i had one, was paid during the time and also received academic credit, and am still in the same general field. it was invaluable. two of among the best back in the day ('90's) were cal poly slo and drexel in philly.

have no idea what's going on these days. can only imagine it's tougher, more competitive, and expensive no matter how ya slice it. i don't envy today's college grad or recently employed who's in a field that is trending to obsolence. i'll be in that boat eventually unless i do a big change.

maybe will take up plumbing. that can't be offshored. :D

[Dead Man]

The beauty of being independent, for those who know how to draw lines and need this benefit, is the ability to decide for yourself how much of your life you're willing to trade for income to support it.

I went independent right before the Great Recession, the first time around. Wish I had not. Wish I'd stayed on the corporate side of things and learned more - a LOT more - before I struck out on my own.. but it's ancient history now. I ended up having to go back to employment after a few struggly years, and while it was nice and a huge relief to have a salary paycheck every 2 weeks.... I HATED not being in control of how much time I had to put in. I didn't mind having to work with others, having to answer to the man, or anything else about it - I just hated not being able to take off for the mountains when a weather window opened up, or take the family out on mid-week mini-vacays when stuff was less crowded and rates were better, etc. Hated being relegated to weekends, and I REALLY hated being asked to work ON weekends - after working all week. I hated that though I was only contractually obligated to 35 billable hours a week, if I was at 50 billable hours by Thursday, I was still expected to be at the office on Friday. Wut?

I went independent again in '12. I don't make as much as I did at my last company, but I only "work" about 25% as much/hard. I can do anything I want, within the bounds of professional interaction and appearance with my clients... I usually work over the weekends, when I don't want to be out doing "fun" stuff anyway, and have my fun during the week. Or not. Whatever.... it's my choice. That's worth so much more than money.

[NHAero]

This is a huge topic and so important to how this society, and likely others around the world, evolves. I worked for myself 1979-2010 in NH as a solo practitioner consulting on low energy, high performance buildings. Since mid-2010, I work 2/3 time for one of my long term clients, a 40 year old worker coop providing architecture/construction/engineering/cabinetry/solar electricity services on Martha's Vineyard, and I have a slimmed-down consulting practice on the mainland. I earned very little the first 10 years but had time to build two houses in succession for myself and get a lot of hiking and biking in :-) No dependents was key to being able to do this.
Through the 90s I began to make a good living, though likely below my peers in engineering with similar education and experience, but in about 2000 I doubled my rates and started to pull ahead. Since I have had the 2/3 time job, my income dropped a bit from its peak, but I like where I work a lot so it's worth it to me. In a couple of years I'd like to cut back work, and a major and unresolved question is whether I go back to consulting and leave the job, or stay with the job and quit consulting.
If I were advising young people or folks considering career switches I'd say to look for a niche where you can build a reputation as a problem solver, and one that demands at least some of the work is tied to the locale to protect it from outsourcing. And either be a super specialist in something that few people can do, or enough of a generalist that you can solve problems/do work that otherwise require multiple people. A certain portion of my work is forensics - why something is failing, could be building enclosure or building systems (or both). It's hard to diagnose a building failure from a remote office in Asia. Whereas if I were doing contract building engineering, say mechanical or structural, that can easily be out-sourced. My niece is about to graduate with a degree in accounting and is headed for her CPA (also in a coop program, great way to go through school and learn something about the real world). It seems to me that many jobs in the accounting world will become open to the world market, so it's a profession that might change dramatically over her career.

[saab2000]

There is almost no way to talk about this without talking about politics, at least on the macro scale. It doesn't need to be a gutter partisan discussion either. It's just economic reality and a constantly evolving thing involving education and trade deals but the economy marches on, often in spite of politicians' desires to influence things.

I have a degree from a liberal arts college, double majoring in French and Theater. They're humanities and the both fundamentally literature degrees in the larger sense. I have no real regrets but neither prepared me for the world of work. They did, however, prepare me to understand the larger world.

I also have a marketable skill, something a lot of people lack. I fell into aviation by accident and ended going to flight school and making a career of that. But it could have been almost anything.

Someone mentioned plumbing. There are all kinds of skills that are labor intensive and too often derided as being beneath us. Welders and electricians and plumbers never seem to be out of work. Just sayin'..... My job is fundamentally a 'labor' position even though most people don't think of it as such. It's a fancy bus driving job. No more, no less. But it's in demand and requires certain qualifications.

It seems to me that there are a lot of people with fuzzy qualifications and these jobs get eliminated or outsourced. This will happen to my profession as well. Pilotless airplanes will happen, though probably not before my career is over.

We need to adapt and evolve and be totally open minded on what we might wish to do with our work time.

[BobO]

Without a sense of financial stability, I wonder how these behaviors will change? The interplay between financial/economic reality and human behaviors is pretty fascinating stuff.

I design custom homes. In 2007 I was working for an architectural firm producing 2-3 custom home designs and construction documents per month. I was paid steady salary for this for approximately fifteen years. I was able to do things like purchase a home, vehicles, bikes, pay monthly insurance premiums, etc. In 2007, the floor dropped out. That architectural firm still exists, but it is a shadow of itself and the business environment does not allow them or most other firms to employ me as it was before.

I now contract with architects, owners, contractors, developers, etc., on a project by project basis. For the past ten years, my financial planning for my family is different than it had been. I no longer rely on credit to anywhere near the extent that I had. I keep far greater liquid reserve than I ever had. When I make a major purchase, far more of the principle is paid in cash rather than credit.

There are up months and down months and I need to be able to ride over the valleys by being conservative with the income earned at the peaks. My business is growing and I may reach a point where I need help to meet deadlines. When that happens I will contract with that help on a per project basis because it allows me to not have the liability of an employee further burdening my reserves during the valleys.

There are a good many others like myself who are working like this. This is the new normal, at least for now. The net effect I think may turn out to be a stabilizing influence on the whole with slower booms and busts.

[shovelhd]

i think what @shovelhd may be referring is co-op/intern programs where the program counts as academic credits. best part about it is that students actually pay for the privilege of such programs (to the higher ed institution) while receiving no compensation in return

i think actual unpaid internships that are uncoupled to co-op programs were phased out a few years ago


That's the theory, but in my kid's experience, not the practice. Once the company sees all the paperwork and red tape associated with providing "academic credit", they balk. Instead, they give them a "project" for their "portfolio" as part of an "academic experience". The bottom line is that the company gets real work done for free. This is absolutely rampant in NYC.

This is not to say that all internships are unpaid, definitely not, but my kids were never chosen for them. Of the kids I know that got them, every one of them had some tie to the company, i.e. Mom worked there.

[jlwdm]

This type of economy also provides the ability for people with good skills to make more money with more flexibility. You need to be have the required skills in your field, but you also need to have common sense, the ability to write and the ability to get along well with others. And finally you need to produce. Some of these are becoming forgotten skills.

I have a relative who took early retirement from a marketing job with a large corporation at 50 or so. She started a marketing consulting business from her home and was turning down business from the start because she was getting referrals from marketing businesses she had worked with before. After just a few years she ended up working exclusively for a large software company and at around $150 per hour she turns down a lot of work and never goes to an office. If she is waiting at the airport she pulls out her laptop and completes an hour of work. She is successful because she has good people skills and exceptional writing skills.

Jeff

[DreaminJohn]

I'm 16 years removed from working for myself. I'm not sure it's as much of an issue now, but I always found it more difficult to keep my skills current and receive training than when someone else was paying the bill.

[echappist]

That's the theory, but in my kid's experience, not the practice. Once the company sees all the paperwork and red tape associated with providing "academic credit", they balk. Instead, they give them a "project" for their "portfolio" as part of an "academic experience". The bottom line is that the company gets real work done for free. This is absolutely rampant in NYC.

This is not to say that all internships are unpaid, definitely not, but my kids were never chosen for them. Of the kids I know that got them, every one of them had some tie to the company, i.e. Mom worked there.

yeah, that unfortunately is the norm in the publishing industry (and media in general). Your son is quite remarkable in making it as a reporter.

[BobO]

I'm 16 years removed from working for myself. I'm not sure it's as much of an issue now, but I always found it more difficult to keep my skills current and receive training than when someone else was paying the bill.

There is a negative in that there is less direct collaboration. This removes some opportunities to learn and improve one's own skill set. The other thing that happens is there seem to be fewer opportunities for younger people to gain on the job training.

[efuentes]

I have been working in the gig economy for most of my life, down here in Mexico it´s a blur between small business and the gig contract work, it´s been that way for a while now. It helped me to have lunch with my family most of the time and enjoy a family first, work second lifestyle.

My kids have recently started to work (In the gig scene), in the very competitive area of Monterrey, Mexico. I find it fascinating the way those new generation kids have us beat with the way they assemble themselves in groups on demand and are able to accomplish very high end projects on the cheap for big multinationals, they use co-op workspaces, the latest tech and are not afraid to pay a lot of money for knowledge where ever they can find it. One thing they don´t have a use for is a lack of skills, I am lucky that I don´t have to compete with that swarm of multilingual, the-world-is-my-oyster, always-on, office-in-a-laptop entrepreneurs.

[54ny77]

http://snarkandsoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/plethora-300x225.jpg

[tiffany_anyhows]

http://snarkandsoul.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/plethora-300x225.jpg
[emoji23] [emoji23]

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[Keith A]

Hello! Hopefully this info is of assistance. At Anyhows.com we are building an online community where the gig economy is the whole idea behind the platform. People can essentially create a free storefront with listings of assets, as in industry specific documents or guides or a plethora of other things that can be sold to others as valuable resources to help them get tasks or projects etc done better and faster. So you can monetize your expertise. You set your own prices and the site gets 15% of the dale.

Sent from my SM-G935T using TapatalkGood bye "Tiffany Anyhows".

[paredown]

I have friend who works as a consultant for a bank. I wouldn't describe it as flexible. He's expected to be in everyday at a certain time, etc. just as if he was a full-time salaried employee....

This is pretty much in violation of labor law & IRS regs--required times of work, no control over schedule and one location makes you an employee, not a contractor. "You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done)."

It is a cheap-ass way of companies to get employees while not paying benefits.

[paredown]

This could quickly turn into a political rant fest so PLEASE DON'T LET IT.

My perspective comes from someone who just returned to work after almost a year after a layoff, that has worked as an IT contractor in the past, and has a 26 year old son who has never had a full time job and works as a journalist in the gig economy.

On the plus side, I have never made more money than when I was contracting, even when vacations, healthcare costs, and insurance costs are added in. You get paid for every hour you work, and I had plenty of "overtime". As long as the project or contract budget can support it, you can work a lot of hours.

However, that was three years ago. I've learned an awful lot during my time out of work in 2016 and 2017. I've watched automation and the swell of H1-B candidates decimate the IT job market. It is absolutely a race to the bottom, and I don't think that this is exclusive to IT. This is something that you are going to have to be conscious of if you depend on temporary work, as you will continually be at risk of being unemployed, with no unemployment compensation. It used to be easy to hop from contract to contract with no gaps, but I don't think that's true anymore. There is serious competition for work, which is driving the compensation down. It's just the opposite of what you hear businesses cry about all the time, that they "can't get good people". They can't get good people at a world economy wage, but this is no longer true. More and more people are willing to work for less, for some, a lot less, for the exact same job. You have the millenials graduating from college with debts to pay, and older workers working longer either because they can, or because they've been laid off in an "expense reduction" like I was. The end result is less jobs and more candidates. My brother in law is a CIO at a small company in CT which is growing rapidly. For every IT position he posts, he gets over 1,000 resumes.

The other trend I've seen is job reclassification. Take IT project management for example. They will post an opening as a Project Coordinator at an expected salary for that position, but the job description and experience requirements will be for a Project Manager, which has a much higher level of responsibility and visibility, and should command a higher wage. The compensation difference is 35%-50% less. People are taking these jobs.

My son is currently doing freelance work for USA Today. His compensation is below the poverty level. We writes for them 4 days per week, collaborates with FT employees every day, and is expected to attend meetings and be present on Slack for every day he is working.

The gig economy is the new "part-time". No benefits, no paid time off, no retirement. I firmly believe that it will transform the workforce in my lifetime. There will be exceptions, like jobs that require relationship management where consistency is paramount, but I believe that most jobs will be gig jobs, and that it will happen in my lifetime.

These are some things to think about.
Good rant and I completely agree.

Last job I took, I was expected to run a crew doing full building maintenance for a local realty firm (30+ offices) and supervise the remodeling of their head office--all this on 20 hours a week & no benefits.

If (actually, when) my weeks went over 20 hours I had to apply to be paid for the extra hours. Oh, and all of this on a flat rate of $20 hour.:eek:

When I realized what the deal was, I walked.

I left IT about the time the race to the bottom started, but the new reality is as you describe.

And don't even get me started on the 'gig' economy of adjunct "professors" where the Unis are paying about the same per course as they were in the '80s, so friends have been gypsying for years between two or three campuses and making less than people on welfare...

[BobO]

This is pretty much in violation of labor law & IRS regs--required times of work, no control over schedule and one location makes you an employee, not a contractor. "You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done)."

That depends entirely upon the conditions written into the contract that both parties negotiate, review and execute. There are absolutely contract jobs that necessarily have specified hours and locations.

It is a cheap-ass way of companies to get employees while not paying benefits.

Failure to negotiate contract terms that are beneficial to you as a contractor is primarily a failure on your own part. If any of the conditions do not suit your needs, you, as an independent contractor are free to not engage in the agreement.

[verticaldoug]

I agree with BobO on some points but i think it points to the split in the gig economy.

For higher skill free lancers, who can negotiate contracts etc, it is not necessarily bad.

However, for lower skill free lancers, Uber, Lift etc, it is essentially a loop hole employers use to avoid benefits and other employee issues. Some things should be regulated or employees should be allowed to unionize.

[paredown]

I agree with BobO on some points but i think it points to the split in the gig economy.

For higher skill free lancers, who can negotiate contracts etc, it is not necessarily bad.

However, for lower skill free lancers, Uber, Lift etc, it is essentially a loop hole employers use to avoid benefits and other employee issues. Some things should be regulated or employees should be allowed to unionize.

Thanks--expressed better than I managed late last night. Sadly I was on the receiving end of a situation that was the latter--no negotiation, employee in all but name or benefits.

And I have seen more and more of it--in relatively low-skill jobs where there is no negotiation, no formal contract even, with the "contractor" label being used as an out, so they don't have to deal with or pay benefits.

[BobO]

The thing is, no one is under any obligation to sign up as an Uber driver. If it doesn't fit in with your workflow, don't do it. There are umpteen other ways to gig yourself into a living. The trick to making it work is in understanding yourself and how to monitize what you are. You are for all intents and purposes becoming a business of one.

[Tandem Rider]

The thing is, no one is under any obligation to sign up as an Uber driver. If it doesn't fit in with your workflow, don't do it. There are umpteen other ways to gig yourself into a living. The trick to making it work is in understanding yourself and how to monitize what you are. You are for all intents and purposes becoming a business of one.

My observation is that many blue collar people have had their "regular" job disappear, and have been forced into a "gig" or multiple "gigs" where they are paid less than 10 years ago, often for doing the same work. I can see this becoming more widespread and taking life in more white collar positions as well. I personally know of teachers and nurses forced into this situation, simply as an alternative to unemployment, the job terms changed, go work somewhere else (move) or work for less or a much less experienced recent grad willing to work for less will take the job. These are people with families with roots and kids in school.

The groundwork that enables this was laid years ago, by both sides of the aisle, and that horse has left the barn to never return.

[shovelhd]

I have plenty of current, in demand IT skills. I was simply denied in favor of someone a lot younger and cheaper. I ratcheted my salary requirements down as the months went on but I kept getting turned down, even for contract work. I was able to pick up some 1099 hands on work at $18/hr. So after chasing the bottom I decided to just get out and do something different. Incidentally, I belong to several job search groups in MA. In the past month, about a dozen have landed, including me. Everyone is over 40, most over 50. Every single one of them took a hit on salary between 10%-50%. If you have a stable job, be thankful, and always watch your back. Just this week, my previous employer canned my boss (VP), my peer, and my replacement, while they continue to outsource all IT to India.

[Red Tornado]

Someone made mention of this earlier in this thread. Had to do with declining salaries, and maybe could expand that to US workers getting the chop so their jobs can be "outsourced". At some point you would think the circle would begin to close as these US workers, who are out of work or making less than they used to, begin to purchase less and sales go down because of it. Eventually, these companies would have to notice it. Then again we're in a global economy, so if these companies can sell world-wide, who gives a crap about the US folks who in many cases can't afford to buy the products they used to make.
Overall, this thread is making me feel pretty stressed about the futures of my two older kids in college (junior & freshman) and my youngest finishing 11th grade. What kind of crappy job market will these kids be entering?
When my dad retired several years ago, he told me that in his opinion my generation would not retire as early or as "well" as his (speaking in generalities here), and that my kids, his grandchildren, might be the first generation to not do as good or better than their parents. Hope he's wrong....

[jlwdm]

At the same time there are plenty of unfilled jobs in areas. Like tech jobs in Seattle.

As a Realtor my work has lots of the characteristics of the gig economy. No benefits and months like this where I have plenty of expenses but no income. It all works out in the long term though if you are committed and do a good job. No retirement has a big impact, but it comes with the territory. Plus it is nice to work for yourself - most of the time.

Jeff

[jimcav]

Overall, this thread is making me feel pretty stressed about the futures of my two older kids in college (junior & freshman) and my youngest finishing 11th grade. What kind of crappy job market will these kids be entering?
When my dad retired several years ago, he told me that in his opinion my generation would not retire as early or as "well" as his (speaking in generalities here), and that my kids, his grandchildren, might be the first generation to not do as good or better than their parents. Hope he's wrong....

I had hoped when i "retired" from the military to move to back to the midwest (or potentially an even cheaper area): a very cheap place to live where I could do a little work if i wanted. Btu then my dad passed and left my mom in a financial mess and now she has had medical issue and has a 20% co-pay. So I have to keep working the same amount to support her, my family, and the dream of some land planted with walnut tree as a financial security plan for my boys is on hold. Having a pension is huge, though, and if I can get the job i'm after I can possibly retire in my mid-50s, and hopefully still have enough of my physical health. I work salary now and my boss inadvertently let it slip that the contract hourly rate is more than my salary on a per hour rate, if it waas 40/hr week--but they try not to give him much work--he is more overflow and coverage for when salaried aren't available or are overtaxed...

good luck to all trying to navigate this

[93legendti]

Woohoo! The latest lawyer contract job offer has upped the pay to $24/hour for 6 weeks...

[jimcav]

Woohoo! The latest lawyer contract job offer has upped the pay to $24/hour for 6 weeks...

isn't that like 48k annual if salaried--that can't make law school attractive now (of course per TV shows i've seen lawyers often do way more than 40 hrs/week so maybe it adds up hourly, but that still sounds like a bad return on the school cost)

[jumphigher]

I work with attorneys a lot (not one myself), and imo the problem right now is the overabundance of them. Law schools keep churning them out, but there just isnt enough work out there. After passing the bar many end up working in firms as assistants or paralegals, until they can hopefully one day do what they went to school for. Most attorneys make a lot less money than the public imagines, too.

Of the successful ones I know, most work way over 40 hours a week. They pretty much work all the time. Many end up with huge caseloads if working for an insurance company, or if they're low on the totem pole. I've met many who are absolutely miserable but are now locked into what they do because of family obligations and high student loans. This has taught me I'd never want to be an attorney, at least not the type that works with civil litigation.

[93legendti]

isn't that like 48k annual if salaried--that can't make law school attractive now (of course per TV shows i've seen lawyers often do way more than 40 hrs/week so maybe it adds up hourly, but that still sounds like a bad return on the school cost)

That's excstly what I told my wife and kids. At my first job out of law school we were expected to bill 2000 hrs a year

I suppose it's better than nothing when you can't find a job and have law school debt...


Every time I hear about a demand of $15/hour to flip burgers, I think of these emails..for $20-24/hour for a lawyer.



Anyway, the emails make it seem like they are now having trouble finding enough people to fill the job. 1) They raised the rate. 2) They pushed back the start date. 3) They are now offering a bonus if you refer another lawyer to the program. A first in all three counts.


I've been on the email list for ~6 years (I've never taken one of these jobs) and have never sensed they were desperate for people, and the price was always $20/hour. Maybe the times are changing...

[shovelhd]

I do believe that the adjustment to wages based on the gig economy and world wages will be temporary. The question is, how long it will take for wages to stabilize and set the market? Will it be within my children's lifetimes? I don't have even a good guess.

[Tandem Rider]

Exposing my age here, but I recall "cheap junk" being made in Japan. Then they raised their bar, quality and wages improved. "Cheap" moved to Taiwan, and it's been moving on ever since to wherever someone is willing to work for less and less. Originally it was just manufactured goods, now it's anything that requires labor to produce that can be transported. Medical tests read, software written, websites created, buildings designed, engineering done, widgets manufactured and multitudes of other work can be executed more cheaply elsewhere.

Using "gig" labor allows a company to shed a lot of expenses related to having employees, and hopefully keeping them in business. The trend is sloshing over into jobs that are not easily outsourced to other countries and that is troubling.