OT: VW GSW oil change

[eddief]

have you had one done? what should it cost at the dealer?

only 4k on my car but the computer is bugging me since it is a year since purchase.

[shovelhd]

It's a synthetic oil change. My dealer gets $59.95. I do it myself for $35 using VW spec oil.

[Cat3roadracer]

The interval is one year or 10,000 miles. If it is up to the recommended level on the dip stick, I'd have no issues going to 10,000 miles no matter how long it took.

[Ken Robb]

The interval is one year or 10,000 miles. If it is up to the recommended level on the dip stick, I'd have no issues going to 10,000 miles no matter how long it took.

That would probably be ok but VW might be able to deny warranty coverage if he has some engine trouble later.

[eddief]

do you get a new plastic plug each time. What oil are you using? $35 sounds like too good :).

It's a synthetic oil change. My dealer gets $59.95. I do it myself for $35 using VW spec oil.

[Ralph]

All my current vehicles measure how vehicle is used and tell me when to change the oil. it can be anywhere from about 4000 miles (lots of short trips where oil doesn't get hot) to around 14,000 miles (all road use ideal conditions). The CRV does it in percent....get down to about 15% of oil life, get it changed. The Fords just keep up with the miles and time (months).

Personally....I think once a year is a good idea no matter what the oil minder says. More often if all you do is short trips. Oils so much better than a few years ago.

[shovelhd]

do you get a new plastic plug each time. What oil are you using? $35 sounds like too good :).

I have a MkV which has a metal drain plug. I have the crush washers in stock and will replace them when needed. I use Mobil1 0W-40 505.00 VW spec oil, $24.99 at Walmart. Filters, I just bought a pile of closeout filters from Rock Auto, $3-$5 each, normally $12 at Walmart. That won't apply to Mk6/7.

[Ken Robb]

Not everyone knows why time between changes is nearly as important as miles between changes. Low miles for a given time usually means lots of short trips when the oil doesn't get up to full operating temperature. As Ralph stated this is not good for oil. When engines are cold they require a richer mixture (choke or other means of richening mixture) to run without stalling. This creates some raw gas washing down past the rings into the crankcase where it mixes with the oil. The cold air in the crankcase condenses water (like steam on your eyeglasses when you come into a room from the cold)onto the walls of the crankcase as the engine warms up. Both of these dilute the oil and form acids in it.
When an engine gets up to full operating temperature the raw gas and condensed water is boiled off leaving the oil almost as good as new. Lots of short trips just add more gasoline and condensation to the oil and the acids eat at the metal therein while sitting in you garage.

Oil is cheaper than engines so annual changes make fiscal sense. :-)
End of sermon. :beer:

[shovelhd]

That's all true, but today's synthetic oils are resilient enough to handle it. The question is, do you want to risk your five figure vehicle's longevity? If you lease it, who cares. If you own it and intend to keep it, it's cheap insurance.

[palincss]

have you had one done? what should it cost at the dealer?

only 4k on my car but the computer is bugging me since it is a year since purchase.

Don't you have a year or two of free service?

[eddief]

bought from out of state dealer. no mention of free service.

[oldpotatoe]

Don't you have a year or two of free service?

Not any longer on 2017 VW.

[soulspinner]

Not everyone knows why time between changes is nearly as important as miles between changes. Low miles for a given time usually means lots of short trips when the oil doesn't get up to full operating temperature. As Ralph stated this is not good for oil. When engines are cold they require a richer mixture (choke or other means of richening mixture) to run without stalling. This creates some raw gas washing down past the rings into the crankcase where it mixes with the oil. The cold air in the crankcase condenses water (like steam on your eyeglasses when you come into a room from the cold)onto the walls of the crankcase as the engine warms up. Both of these dilute the oil and form acids in it.
When an engine gets up to full operating temperature the raw gas and condensed water is boiled off leaving the oil almost as good as new. Lots of short trips just add more gasoline and condensation to the oil and the acids eat at the metal therein while sitting in you garage.

Oil is cheaper than engines so annual changes make fiscal sense. :-)
End of sermon. :beer:

Yup. The oil life indicators are just algorithyms(sp?) not actual sensors of contaminants or viscosity. Porsche at one point specified 20k for their full syn changes but have backed to 10. Direct injection adds some issues in oil consumption and contaminent concentration. Your mileage may vary but I change my oil earlier than my 2014 Honda oil life sensor indicates as I intend to keep it for a couple hundred thou. Oil is cheaper than engines....

[clyde the point]

Ford Taurus 2004 5-30 every 3k with Autocraft semi = 155k owned since new, burns a little oil between changes.
Toyota Hightlander 5-30 every 5k with Mobil 1 since new 165k burns no oil.

I know exactly what oil / filter is going into these motors. Both have excellent reports from Blackstone labs.

Son got a Hyundai Sonata 2009 from grandpa, had oil changed every 3500 or so, oil filter I pulled off was so small it appeared like a lawnmower filter. Just a way for the quick change place to save money. Still came out ok on Blackstone, but people will do anything for a buck, at your expense.

I can only change oil/filters/batteries on cars these days, but at least I am under them and looking things over a bit. One DIY project that really pays in the long run.

[AngryScientist]

i've never been to a mechanic or oil change establishment in my life, and i used to drive my cars a lot of miles/year.

i used to really geek out on this stuff and have had multiple used oil analysis done on my various vw/audi/bmw cars over the years to hone in on the most logical oil change frequency and best oils for the car.

anyway, these days i drive very little and am back down to once a year oil changes on my cars. family van gets changed a little more often, but it's a honda and will probably run to a million miles with maple syrup in the crankcase.

yes, modern oils are good, but there is still a lot going on inside an internal combustion engine, especially a direct injected engine. timely oil changes are always a good idea, and really not a lot of dough in the long run.

[eddief]

and this google would suggest one must pay for "free" service.

http://www.newcenturyvw.com/blog/2016-volkswagen-warranty-coverage-and-plans/

with the miles I've been doing per year, I would not reach 10K for 2.5 years, so probably makes sense to change the oil sooner rather than later.

[eddief]

= $199 for 10K service = oil change, rotate tires, inspection. i feel some pain in my sphincter.

[batman1425]

I have a MkV which has a metal drain plug. I have the crush washers in stock and will replace them when needed. I use Mobil1 0W-40 505.00 VW spec oil, $24.99 at Walmart. Filters, I just bought a pile of closeout filters from Rock Auto, $3-$5 each, normally $12 at Walmart. That won't apply to Mk6/7.

Mk7 is pretty amenable to siphon changes - which is good considering is has a plastic oil pan. Strip the threads on the drain plug and you are SOL. Even VW techs I've talk to hate them and use the siphon systems when possible. I don't drive enough (read: oil changes are less frequent) to invest in one of them personally but if I was changing oil every 6 weeks like in my wife's car, I'd probably go that route.

Oil changes are cheap insurance in the grand scheme of things. Todays oil are much better than the stuff we grew up with, so pushing the milage/duration has fewer downsides than the must replace at 3,000 miles stuff of days past, but still it's a good idea to keep up with.

[batman1425]

= $199 for 10K service = oil change, rotate tires, inspection. i feel some pain in my sphincter.

Wow, that's a total ripoff. My local guy does that for under $100 out the door. Keep in mind, an auto company can't revoke your warranty for getting routine/scheduled maintenance at an independent shop. Just save your receipts. I'd shop around.

[eddief]

With synthetic oil, filter, and new plastic drain plug for about $65.

I know how to do my own changes, but with the Toyota, I always just took it in for its $29.95 changes at my local place.

Now with the VW, I am considering DIY again. Regardless of the plastic plug, it looks as though the VW won't create the drippy mess of my last car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkQlec72V9U

[batman1425]

With synthetic oil, filter, and new plastic drain plug for about $65.

I know how to do my own changes, but with the Toyota, I always just took it in for its $29.95 changes at my local place.

Now with the VW, I am considering DIY again. Regardless of the plastic plug, it looks as though the VW won't create the drippy mess of my last car:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkQlec72V9U

YVMV, but from the video it looks like you have a similar polycarbonate (plastic) oil pan to the Mk7 golfs. It isn't so much breaking the plug that is the problem, those are relatively cheap, as stripping out the threads in the pan itself. If you go DIY, I'd strongly recommend either going the extraction route, or installing an aftermarket metal oil pan. I've heard of a several cases of techs at both dealer and independent shops stripping the threads and ruining the pan. I'd rather have the shop on the hook for that repair than do it in my driveway and have to deal with it myself.

The mityvac pumps do a good job from what I've heard over on vwvortex and are relatively cheap. Also a no mess affair. If I was changing more than once every 4-6 months, I'd get one for sure.

[eddief]

would have thought drain plug approach would get more oil out...but maybe not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65MMnubY4DA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65MMnubY4DA

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_390306_390306

[Ken Robb]

Draining from the bottom might get out more nasty stuff from the bottom of the pan than the siphon method.

[eddief]

I thought that too, but the demo in the video would suggest that the siphon tube actually might do a better job since drain plugs are sometimes not in the ideal spot to let the most oil drain out.

Draining from the bottom might get out more nasty stuff from the bottom of the pan than the siphon method.

[Ken Robb]

Wow, that's a total ripoff. My local guy does that for under $100 out the door. Keep in mind, an auto company can't revoke your warranty for getting routine/scheduled maintenance at an independent shop. Just save your receipts. I'd shop around.

Consider that shop rent and labor cost may be higher in other areas than it is in SE Minnesota so $199 might not be a rip-off.

[eddief]

$199 is a rip off.

Consider that shop rent and labor cost may be higher in other areas than it is in SE Minnesota so $199 might not be a rip-off.

[Ken Robb]

I thought that too, but the demo in the video would suggest that the siphon tube actually might do a better job since drain plugs are sometimes not in the ideal spot to let the most oil drain out.

That's possible. I guess the main thing is to change MOST of the old stuff. I tried a siphon years ago. I decided the $$ saved vs. having a shop change the oil wasn't worth the trouble of cleaning/storing the dirty siphon system and disposing of the old oil and filter. For years I bought my oil/filter from my pal who owns BMW shop and used his lift and tools after hours to change my own oil/filter. I could still do this but now I'm older, lazier and richer so I just pay his guys to do it for me. They also have a look at the underside of the car with better eyes than mine. Once they found a crack in my M3 wheel that could have ultimately failed with bad consequences.

[eddief]

probably smarter not to "rob Peter to pay Paul" and I will end up taking mine to an independent VW only shop.

That's possible. I guess the main thing is to change MOST of the old stuff. I tried a siphon years ago. I decided the $$ saved vs. having a shop change the oil wasn't worth the trouble of cleaning/storing the dirty siphon system and disposing of the old oil and filter. For years I bought my oil/filter from my pal who owns BMW shop and used his lift and tools after hours to change my own oil/filter. I could still do this but now I'm older, lazier and richer so I just pay his guys to do it for me. They also have a look at the underside of the car with better eyes than mine. Once they found a crack in my M3 wheel that could have ultimately failed with bad consequences.

[batman1425]

Consider that shop rent and labor cost may be higher in other areas than it is in SE Minnesota so $199 might not be a rip-off.

Fair point that there will be local fluctuations based on such things like rent and labor costs, but for the services provided that's more than double what I've paid in three different states two of which were in reasonably high rent metropolitan areas. Unless you need to have it done right now, and you are in downtown Manhattan, that's a crazy number. Even at $100/hr for labor and assuming it would take a tech an hour to do an oil/filter change, rotate tires, and a brief inspection, which I think is very generous for both time and hourly, that would mean they are charging you $100 for 6 quarts and a filter. IME, that is a 30min job for an efficient shop and $40-50 worth of consumables. Pricing structures like what the OP was quoted is how these places get the nickname "stealer-ships".

[eddief]

quoted $115 for oil change and $140 for 10K service...which includes tire rotation.

[shovelhd]

$25 for a tire rotation is very fair.

[eddief]

When I installed the mud flaps, I jacked that sucker up one wheel at a time and put stands under each corner. Those damn wheels and tires weigh a ton and lining up bolts and bolt holes while hunched over is a bitch. $25 seems reasonable.

$25 for a tire rotation is very fair.

[FlashUNC]

= $199 for 10K service = oil change, rotate tires, inspection. i feel some pain in my sphincter.

The 10k service intervals also include the changing/inspection of a couple other things in the car, cabin air filter being one of them.

Full synthetic ain't cheap either.

Hope you got a manual, because you're not going to like the cost of DSG maintenance if the oil changes bother you.

[shovelhd]

When I installed the mud flaps, I jacked that sucker up one wheel at a time and put stands under each corner. Those damn wheels and tires weigh a ton and lining up bolts and bolt holes while hunched over is a bitch. $25 seems reasonable.

I use two jacks, no stands. Takes about 20 minutes.

[thwart]

I use two jacks, no stands. Takes about 20 minutes.

Impressive.

Up until last year, I did the twice yearly snow tire/wheel switcheroo myself... no power tools, but a shop-type jack. Never took me less than 45 minutes, usually an hour.

Now I've found a local shop that'll do it for $20. That's so darn cheap that:

1) Decided I'm done doing it myself for the time being. :beer:

2) I pay 'em in cash and make it $25. :D

[eddief]

Tiptronic auto trans. Goes good, no DSG.

The 10k service intervals also include the changing/inspection of a couple other things in the car, cabin air filter being one of them.

Full synthetic ain't cheap either.

Hope you got a manual, because you're not going to like the cost of DSG maintenance if the oil changes bother you.