HSG - High Speed Geometry

[theprep]

Serotta is coming out with a new line of bikes for 2007 designed around "High Speed Geometry". Saw it on the home page.

Are these going to be similiar to STOCK Fierte's, non custom, less expensive but with lower front ends and stiffer tubeset?

Anybody know?

[Fat Robert]

its a stock geo ti race bike

longer, lower, stiffer than a fierte

should be pretty kick butt if ti is your thing

i'm holding out for a steel road frame

(serotta andrew said i asked for it...he's off on technicality. steel, andrew....steel...a road frame for the budget folks)

[Jason E]

Serotta is coming out with a new line of bikes for 2007 designed around "High Speed Geometry". Saw it on the home page.

Are these going to be similiar to STOCK Fierte's, non custom, less expensive but with lower front ends and stiffer tubeset?

Anybody know?

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

This fall (or in the next month or so) we will see the HSG 'cross frames, and over the later winter they will have HSG Road and TT. The TT will be an aero tubed bike in Ti or Steel replaceing/updating the CXII and the Road will be a Stock Geo (Race Geo) Road frame, lower, longer, no HT extension, Stiffer, possibly OS tubeset.

Similar level to the Fierte, but with Stiffer tubes. Name designation of HSG to not get confused with Fierte's LSG.... (just kidding)

A Serotta designed for racing right out of the gate.

I think it's exciting.

[Fixed]

its a stock geo ti race bike

longer, lower, stiffer than a fierte

should be pretty kick butt if ti is your thing

i'm holding out for a steel road frame

(serotta andrew said i asked for it...he's off on technicality. steel, andrew....steel...a road frame for the budget folks)


amen

[ols]

hey, that was my guess in the contest thread (!)

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=238615&postcount=35


I suppose I should have e-mailed it to the webmaster instead.

oops

[theprep]

Any talk yet of what they might cost?

My CIII is gone today at 5 pm and I got some money burning a hole in my pocket.

I was thinking:

-Pinarello F4:13 (LBS can get thru Gita)
-Ridley Excalibur (no local dealers, got to use my mouse)

Maybe another Serotta if the price is right?

[Too Tall]

Most excellent :)
Do that in steel as well, you've got the bases covered.

[Jason E]

Any talk yet of what they might cost?


Andy?

[victoryfactory]

from the HSG details on the website:

"The Ti bike features a bi-oval max down tube"


Hmmm. I wonder what that means? In the '90's Litespeed
used to tout their "biaxially ovalized" down tube, which basically was a
slightly oversized, straight, round tube that was squashed vertically to attach
to the head tube and squashed horozontally to attach to the bottom
bracket.

It was offered on their cheapest frames.

VF

[Fat Robert]

Any talk yet of what they might cost?

My CIII is gone today at 5 pm and I got some money burning a hole in my pocket.

I was thinking:

-Pinarello F4:13 (LBS can get thru Gita)
-Ridley Excalibur (no local dealers, got to use my mouse)

Maybe another Serotta if the price is right?


you need my ridley

i need cash

mutual interest, bro

[theprep]

you need my ridley

i need cash

mutual interest, bro

I'm sure your Ridley is hot, but I already have aluminum covered (gotta sweet orange Strong Racing frame). Gotta Ti MTB and A Steel road frame.

What I need because all the kool kids have em is CARBON.

The only one's I've ever tried have been a Look 481i and Spicoli's old Orca. That SOB still has not let me take out his C50. His latest excuse is he cracked his Newton Stem now.

[Fat Robert]

I'm sure your Ridley is hot, but I already have aluminum covered (gotta sweet orange Strong Racing frame). Gotta Ti MTB and A Steel road frame.

What I need because all the kool kids have em is CARBON.

The only one's I've ever tried have been a Look 481i and Spicoli's old Orca. That SOB still has not let me take out his C50. His latest excuse is he cracked his Newton Stem now.

you want carbon?

i paint it black. you never know the difference.

[Climb01742]

so what this make their current geometry? SSG? slow speed geometry? meant as a joke. sorta. there's always a risk, marketing-wise, when you name new things, because the new name can be seen as an unintended critique of existing products. perhaps a "better" name might have been RSG, as in "race specific geometry". but i'm really just musing. naming stuff is surprisingly hard.

[Onno]

I thought the same thing. I suppose HSG is a way of sexing up the non-custom line of bikes, or more positively, changing that line to make it more appealing and distinctive. I'll be interested in seeing what they do with the TT bike. This seems like a particularly tough market for Serotta to wade into. There are lots of tricked up TT bikes out there, not super expensive, offering lots of (apparent) bang for the buck. What will Serotta do to distinguish its offering?

[Serotta_Andrew]

I thought the same thing. I suppose HSG is a way of sexing up the non-custom line of bikes, or more positively, changing that line to make it more appealing and distinctive. I'll be interested in seeing what they do with the TT bike. This seems like a particularly tough market for Serotta to wade into. There are lots of tricked up TT bikes out there, not super expensive, offering lots of (apparent) bang for the buck. What will Serotta do to distinguish its offering?


The HSG TT/Tri would be full CUSTOM!!!!!

[dbrk]

The Fierte is designed to suit many more recreational riders with its slightly higher tt extension and chainstay length. As I see it, it's a comfortable competition bicycle. It may not meet contemporary race geometry "needs" and shorter cs, a lower front end, and "stiffer" tubes. How stiff is stiff enough? But contemporary race bikes _must_ be ever stiffer, ever lighter, ever better marketed to those criteria. Clearly, lots of Serotta riders or want-to-ride Serotta racers want a "race bike" geometry. HSG strikes me as answering that call but it seems to me that a fast guy on a Fierte will win anyway.

dbrk

[cs124]

... HSG strikes me as answering that call but it seems to me that a fast guy on a Fierte will win anyway.

dbrk

true, as always dr b. but from what i see chances are the fast guy wouldn't be on a fierte... HSG strikes me as an excelent way to get serottas out there on the race circuit. bravo to all involved.

[pdxmech13]

How many pages will it take
to showcase the 2007 line.......

.......getting a little long for
a small company with already
a lot of options.

What do I know though, I sell
out too John Burke on a daily
basis. :D

[scrooge]

I had the same thoughts about naming. I don't want to sound like I'm slamming Serotta (because I really like the company and don't want to abuse their hospitality), but my first thought was that they were responding to allegations/rumors that serottas are for middle aged slow guys (and gals) with a little to much money to throw around.*

And even if Fierte is a "comfortable" race geometry (which it likely is--I don't really know anything about it), it seems like a lot of people who would buy them want the perception of high speed geometry--they want to think they are riding a all out "race bike."

That being said, I'm sure these folks knnow a lot more about marketing and have put a lot more thought into this then the 30 seconds I have.




*No, I'm not thinking about anyone in particular. But we've all heard this BS before so I don't think I'm saying anything new. And no, I'm not saying its what comes to mind for me when I think "Serotta."

[Jason E]

I would say there is no masking that the Fierte line is aimed at the higher end Pilot/Roubaix crowd.

People walk into shops all across this country looking for road bikes and the first words out of their mouths are "I don't want to race, I don't want to be so low".

The Fierte is a perfect compliment to their needs.

Recognizing this, and making a complimentary line like the HSG is great. People that want the option of owning one of the best made bikes in the world, at a relatively affordable price, that more meets the needs of the ever expanding base of men and women participating in amateur racing, that's HSG, not Fierte.

Now they have all of their bases covered.

The people that come in looking for a more relaxed geometry [read: upright] would compare the HSG to a madone or a felt, that is, something they do not want to ride.

HSG? I can't wait!

[dbrk]

...And even if Fierte is a "comfortable" race geometry (which it likely is--I don't really know anything about it), it seems like a lot of people who would buy them want the perception of high speed geometry--they want to think they are riding a all out "race bike."

That being said, I'm sure these folks knnow a lot more about marketing and have put a lot more thought into this then the 30 seconds I have.


I think this is all so very true, especially that many folks who have no business riding an "all out 'race bike'" relish the perception of doing just that...and there's nothing wrong with that imhoatmoyo. Fiertes look like all out race bikes, sort of. That's cool. What the future portends, however, is that too many of Said Perceivers end up with HSG when, well, they would be happier (money better spent b/c fit is commensurate with their needs rather than perceptions...) on a Fierte or custom. Still, I commend Serotta for looking into a production/established-geos bike for racers. I'm no racer and likely no candidate for HSG and it's fit/style. I hope folks aren't sold HSG because it gets hard to admit that one _shouldn't_ have the perception of oneself as a racer. Think of all the guys who can't fess up to a self-perception of not being a racer. Plenty, methinks. I hope good decisions come as well as beautiful race bikes.

dbrk

[Jason E]

I think this is all so very true, especially that many folks who have no business riding an "all out 'race bike'" relish the perception of doing just that...and there's nothing wrong with that imhoatmoyo. Fiertes look like all out race bikes, sort of. That's cool. What the future portends, however, is that too many of Said Perceivers end up with HSG when, well, they would be happier (money better spent b/c fit is commensurate with their needs rather than perceptions...) on a Fierte or custom. Still, I commend Serotta for looking into a production/established-geos bike for racers. I'm no racer and likely no candidate for HSG and it's fit/style. I hope folks aren't sold HSG because it gets hard to admit that one _shouldn't_ have the perception of oneself as a racer. Think of all the guys who can't fess up to a self-perception of not being a racer. Plenty, methinks. I hope good decisions come as well as beautiful race bikes.

dbrk

I think this is a good point and issue you raise.

I would think, not as an absolute, but as a pretty safe rule, that if you go in looking for a Serotta, you are concerned with proper fit and application.

That is, both the customer and the Shop have a vested interest in enjoying the experience and making sure that the correct jig [frame] is used for the customers needs.

There is going to be occaisions where people walk into shops and see an HSG built up in a rack next to other race geometry bikes, test ride a few and wind up on the Serotta, even though if they were shopping for a Serotta they may have wound up on a Fierte. This is because they went in looking for a bike, not specifically a Serotta, and liked what they saw.

I do think that Serotta dealers will still work to maintain their personal reputations for proper fit by steering people away from the HSG if it is not the correct bike.

I think the Fierte and the HSG will be happy stable mates, not competeing ego's.

[davids]

It's my understanding that there is one other issue in play here, as well - Filling idle production capacity during the 'off season'. By creating a second line of standard geometry frames (to compliment the Fierte) Serotta is probably also filling up welding time that would otherwise be going to waste.

[fierte_poser]

So, according to my friend, current stock Serotta's such as my 06 Fierte feature 'OMG' -- Old Man Geometry. :D

He scoffs at the 16.7cm head tube (its not extended, the top tube slopes to meet the head tube). He scoffs at my -0- cm drop from saddle to bars. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I knew when I bought my Fierte that I wasn't getting a frame with 'race' geometry. In fact, that's exactly *why* I bought it in the first place! :banana:

Kent

[Bill Bove]

I also think the Fierte and HSG's will compliment each other and allow shops to have a broader selection of mid priced Serotta's for those who appreciate them. I just wish there was steel version of the road bike for those of us who want an inexpensive racer. I'm looking at a Salsa Primero right now.

[stevep]

the damn bike i got must have lsg...all i know is it pulls back on hills..gets harder and harder to pedal... damn.

[Jason E]

the damn bike i got must have lsg...all i know is it pulls back on hills..gets harder and harder to pedal... damn.

My bike gets slower going uphills, too. :rolleyes:

[stevep]

obviously defective.

[Serotta_Andrew]

the damn bike i got must have lsg...all i know is it pulls back on hills..gets harder and harder to pedal... damn.

So ya see, the problem is your frame is not a Serotta

[stevep]

im waiting for the sfsg to come out
somewhat faster speed geometry.
when can it be ready?

[stevep]

joking aside. i think hsg is a very good idea,
a lot or riders on and off the forum like to ride performance stuff... and a lot prefer other, more gentle styles.
this is a direction that will attract some enthusiasts. ...to an increasingly custom oriented selection of products.
there are a lot of market segments out there...
dbrk wants a hsg w/ a 650 b wheels for example ( small segment admittedly ) and room for wooden fenders and a carradice bag.

like: you dont see anyone buying a chevy malibu as a fun car to drive... they buy a mazda miata or something ( if they have the $$). sporty, nimble,.

[bostondrunk]

After looking at the gallery, I'd say most so far have been SFUG (Slow Fat Upright Geometry), but I'm not a framebuilder, so thats just a guess.
:beer: :bike: