OT: car advice

[Aaron O]

Looking to the well respected well for help! I don't know/care much about cars, but circumstances now have me driving. A lot. For the first time in a VERY long time. It may be long term :(

I live in town, with very difficult parking and would like to keep it smallish. At the same time, I like stretch out room. My desired car traits, in something resembling priority order are (and I know some are mutually exclusive):

Safe, at least relative

Reliable/minimal maintenance

Affordable repair parts

Long lived

smallish for city - but leg room. Prefer space in back for bike, but can add hitch.

affordable/fuel efficient. low to insure

Enough pick up to do 75 up a hill

Can handle snow/rain (prefer FWD? is this on all cars now?)

Things that shouldn't be considered...

Looks, handling, status.

I'm leaning Honda Civic coupe...but would love to hear other opinions.

I LOVE our Subaru Impreza, but the leg room is cramped for me.

[rnhood]

The Honda Fit is very decent, if it has enough room. Superb reliability and mileage. The Civic is great too and a bit more sedan'ish.

[maj]

The most reliable car I ever owned was a Camry. installed a receiver hitch for a bike rack and I'd have no qualms buying another one.

[Aaron O]

Isn't that a full size? Hoping for a bit smaller....hard to park larger cars near me.

[AngryScientist]

i think if you want a little more room to spread out, considering your list of other wants, an accord or camry would definitely do you right. these days, the back seats all fold down and fitting a bike in back is no worries. you can drive a honda accord or toyota camry with very basic maintenance practically forever.

in the northeast, rust from the road salt/brine they use lately will kill a honda before the engine dies.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Especially if you want to put stuff (a bike!?) in the back seat, why a coupe?

I'm 6' tall and used to drive my wife's 2005 Toyota Corolla S comfortably. It was nimble with enough acceleration for city driving with excellent gas mileage. Hard to beat a Corolla or Civic for reliability and cost of maintenance/repairs.

I found myself needing to put more miles on a car about 3 years ago. I bought a 2003 Camry XLE with 125k for $6k. It's been super reliable and comfortable. Heated leather seats forever. NEVER going back. If you're cool with a larger car than a Civic I'd consider a Camry or Accord.

[AngryScientist]

additionally, and this is unsolicited advice i know, but i'd look into garage or lot space.

it just sounds miserable to be in a city and have to do the street space jockey dance every day. at the end of a long day or tough shift, the last thing you want to do is waste 45 minutes driving around the block looking for a spot. when it snows, it totally sucks, and just the stress of not knowing where the hell you're going to put the car or how far you're willing to park from your place are a huge turnoff.

i know it's expensive, but how much is your time and stress worth?

[Aaron O]

Especially if you want to put stuff (a bike!?) in the back seat, why a coupe?

I'm 6' tall and used to drive my wife's 2005 Toyota Corolla S comfortably.

Please assume I'm totally incompetent and say irrational things with cars (I know, I know...why limit the statement?). I really know squat about cars. The only thing I know less about than cars would be women.

I was thinking coupe under the assumption that it would have more leg room. The putting a bike in back is really not a priority...I'll almost definitely buy a hitch (and have a rack).

[texbike]

i think if you want a little more room to spread out, considering your list of other wants, an accord or camry would definitely do you right. these days, the back seats all fold down and fitting a bike in back is no worries. you can drive a honda accord or toyota camry with very basic maintenance practically forever.
.

Agreed! An Accord would hit all of your requirements and they're not really that big. Another option is the Scion Xb.

Texbike

[Aaron O]

additionally, and this is unsolicited advice i know, but i'd look into garage or lot space.

it just sounds miserable to be in a city and have to do the street space jockey dance every day. at the end of a long day or tough shift, the last thing you want to do is waste 45 minutes driving around the block looking for a spot. when it snows, it totally sucks, and just the stress of not knowing where the hell you're going to put the car or how far you're willing to park from your place are a huge turnoff.

i know it's expensive, but how much is your time and stress worth?

A garage would mean moving. I looked into spot rental, and there's just nothing convenient.

I'm working 90 hour weeks right now, and likely will until May. It stinks, and the extra 2 hours commute isn't making it better...but it's where I am right now.

[ColonelJLloyd]

A garage would mean moving. I looked into spot rental, and there's just nothing convenient.

I'm working 90 hour weeks right now, and likely will until May. It stinks, and the extra 2 hours commute isn't making it better...but it's where I am right now.

Cot in the office. Or amphetamines and just work all night. Tax sleazin'!

You don't want a coupe. I could be mistaken, but I would wager there is zero difference in legroom between the two and four door models.

[Dave B]

Looking to the well respected well for help! I don't know/care much about cars, but circumstances now have me driving. A lot. For the first time in a VERY long time. It may be long term :(

I live in town, with very difficult parking and would like to keep it smallish. At the same time, I like stretch out room. My desired car traits, in something resembling priority order are (and I know some are mutually exclusive):

Safe, at least relative

Reliable/minimal maintenance

Affordable repair parts

Long lived

smallish for city - but leg room. Prefer space in back for bike, but can add hitch.

affordable/fuel efficient. low to insure

Enough pick up to do 75 up a hill

Can handle snow/rain (prefer FWD? is this on all cars now?)

Things that shouldn't be considered...

Looks, handling, status.

I'm leaning Honda Civic coupe...but would love to hear other opinions.

I LOVE our Subaru Impreza, but the leg room is cramped for me.


I kept thinking this and then saw you mention it. Done deal. You can have a good used one on the cheap and they last forever

[ltwtsculler91]

Sounds like a basic VW Golf or Corolla Hatchback would be a good choice for you. Bit more space than the Impreza inside, but still easy to park/get around in.

A Honda Fit could be an option too, but they're smaller than the Impreza you said feels cramped, althought they have great space utilization

[Aaron O]

Cot in the office. Or amphetamines and just work all night. Tax sleazin'!

Seriously. Not sure if I see this as a long term future, but want my letters.

So what am I not getting about coupes?

I've never owned one, but I drove a friend's for a week and liked it a lot.

[woolly]

Honda Fit, any year. Done.

[AngryScientist]

So what am I not getting about coupes?



the doors are longer and sometimes harder to open fully in tight spots. you get no more interior room and a bigger hassle to get rear passengers in.

[ColonelJLloyd]

So what am I not getting about coupes?

Maybe it's just me. To me you are just taking a sedan and making it less convenient. They are simply more practical and that seems to be at the heart of your desire/necessity of purchasing a car. Maybe if you think you will never put anything in the backseat or ever carry passengers, but I still come back to "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it". The car is going to drive the same all other things equal.

And if you are looking specifically a coupe you just narrowed your search big time. There are pretty solid reasons why very few non-sports car coupes have been produced since the 1970s. Assuming you're content with the size of your junk and won't be looking to put $10k worth of Fast & Furious parts on it, you'll be happier with a sedan. I know I would and every friend I've had who has owned a coupe past the age of 21 has wished for the rear doors at some point.

If you do look for Corollas, I personally think the S models are worth the premium.

[cp43]

Seriously. Not sure if I see this as a long term future, but want my letters.

So what am I not getting about coupes?

I've never owned one, but I drove a friend's for a week and liked it a lot.

If it's only going to be you and your stuff in the car, a coupe is fine. They're a bit of a pain to get people, and large items in to the back seat, since there's no back doors.

A couple people mentioned the Fit. How tall are you? I drive a Fit, and at 6'3", I wish the seat went a little farther back, but otherwise, it's roomy enough.

Chris

[cp43]

Honda Fit, any year. Done.

As much as I like our Fit, it's not very powerful. 75mph up a hill is pushing it a bit in the Fit. OP mentioned this as a consideration, albeit a low priority one.

They're great, practical cars, but not fast.

Chris

[Gummee]

Element
cx-5
etc

Slightly bigger both inside and out

M

[Aaron O]

If it's only going to be you and your stuff in the car, a coupe is fine. They're a bit of a pain to get people, and large items in to the back seat, since there's no back doors.

A couple people mentioned the Fit. How tall are you? I drive a Fit, and at 6'3", I wish the seat went a little farther back, but otherwise, it's roomy enough.

Chris

5'11...yet still have stretch issues in a lot of smaller cars. I'll try one out.Maybe it's just me. To me you are just taking a sedan and making it less convenient. They are simply more practical and that seems to be at the heart of your desire/necessity of purchasing a car. Maybe if you think you will never put anything in the backseat or ever carry passengers, but I still come back to "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it". The car is going to drive the same all other things equal.

And if you are looking specifically a coupe you just narrowed your search big time. There are pretty solid reasons why very few non-sports car coupes have been produced since the 1970s. Assuming you're content with the size of your junk and won't be looking to put $10k worth of Fast & Furious parts on it, you'll be happier with a sedan. I know I would and every friend I've had who has owned a coupe past the age of 21 has wished for the rear doors at some point.

If you do look for Corollas, I personally think the S models are worth the premium.

I don't even know what I don't know...I thought it would have no, or tiny back seat...and thus more leg room. If the leg room is the same, I'd rather have hatch back for the 1/100 times my wife may need to borrow it. It's not a sports car thing.

Definitely not fast and furious...ha!

[ColonelJLloyd]

...I'd rather have hatch back for the 1/100 times my wife may need to borrow it.

That's a little different. A coupe is not a hatchback. Some companies call the latter a 3-door.

[p nut]

I loved my Fit as well. But safe? It was rated among the worst in category, unfortunately. But it had a TON of room, especially for its size.

My pick would be an HR-V. Has the same Magic Seat config that makes the Fit such an awesome car. A ton of utility space, in a variety of configurations to fit a ton of cargo. Basically a Fit, but bigger.

[Hilltopperny]

Accord or Camry as suggested above is what I'd go with. Enough room, good gas mileage, ability to store things and low maintenance. I've owned both over the years and with regular scheduled maintenance I got well over 200k on both. A subaru impreza hatch would also do all these and my wifes 2014 averages 32 mpg and can more than hold its own in bad northeast winters:beer:

[classtimesailer]

Subaru Forester.

[biker72]

I recently purchased a Certified 2013 Honda Fit. I'm 6 ft 2" and have plenty of head and leg room. I was pleasantly surprised that I can put 2 bikes inside and still have a little room for luggage.

I'd put the power level on par with my old 2008 Honda CRV. Probably not the best choice for mountains. So far I'm averaging around 40 mpg.

The 2015 and newer models have a CVT transmission. My 2013 is a 5 speed automatic.

I did drive a new 2017 Fit and found it to be OK but really liked the 2013 better.

I also own a 2015 Honda Accord that is very nice but doesn't have the room the Fit has.

[Aaron O]

Accord or Camry as suggested above is what I'd go with. Enough room, good gas mileage, ability to store things and low maintenance. I've owned both over the years and with regular scheduled maintenance I got well over 200k on both. A subaru impreza hatch would also do all these and my wifes 2014 averages 32 mpg and can more than hold its own in bad northeast winters:beer:

Wife has/loves a 2014 Impreza hatchback...it's perfect, except for leg room.

Anyway...will also check out Fit, Camry and Accord. Also the HRV.

Philly used to have a program where if you got an electric and put in a charger, you'd get a reserved for electric spot in front of it. Council is apparently getting rid of the rule (was hoping to go that route for my parking).

[pjm]

Mazda 3 hatch. Drive one, you'll see.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rp7zDpk2-9E

[staggerwing]

Honda Fit, any year. Done.

I just went through this exercise and found the previous FiT iteration to be a bit underpowered (112hp?), even with a 5-speed. The newest variant (from 2015?) was a bit better with 130hp and a 6-speed, although it was a bit buzzy spinning 4000rpm @ 70mph. Fantastic city car though with incredibly intelligent interior packaging.

Loved the 2015 Accord Sport 6-speed I sampled. I thought the asking of $17.2, for a 2.5yo, 25k mile, extremely clean, certified pre-owned was reasonable, although more than I was willing to spend for a secondary vehicle. Nice handling, surprisingly good seats, and plenty of get up and go.

Ended up with a bit of an oddball, a 2011 Volvo c30 6-speeed, which probably isn't what you want, but with 225hp, it is fun. Drives a bit different than the Honda's, as there is gobs of low-end torque. Not a terribly roomy hatch, though. Will add a Class 1 receiver to make the occasional bike transport less of a chore.

[ceolwulf]

Mazda 3 hatch. Drive one, you'll see.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rp7zDpk2-9E

This is Correct.

If you're driving a lot you might as well enjoy it.

[Aaron O]

We drove a mazda 3 when we tested the Subaru...it did have that fun zoom zoom factor...but I liked the Impreza more for us.

I'll check out the leg room on it.

[shovelhd]

Agreed! An Accord would hit all of your requirements and they're not really that big. Another option is the Scion Xb.

Texbike

If he's looking at new cars, the XB isn't made anymore.

[shovelhd]

Gti.

[stephenmarklay]

I will echo the fit. I had similar criteria and bought a 2015 fit exactly two years ago. I have been nothing but impressed. I average better than 35mph around town, it has great room, has great features and tech in the EX model.

You could do much worse.

[josephr]

As much as I like our Fit, it's not very powerful. 75mph up a hill is pushing it a bit in the Fit. OP mentioned this as a consideration, albeit a low priority one.

They're great, practical cars, but not fast.

Chris

I rented a FIT for a business trip and after 100 miles on the interstate, I was tired from being blown across the lane and the twitchy steering. Its great for an around-town sort of car, but any sort of commute would wear you down.

Not just to pick on the FIT...Mazda 2/Fiesta (same car, different wrapper) were pretty bad as well.

Lots of great recommendations here from the peanut gallery --- 4 years on a CX-5 and not regretted the decision at all.

[Schmed]

Things that shouldn't be considered...

Looks, handling, status.



I'm speechless! :D

(I never used to be a 'car guy', but after driving a few German cars that handle exceptionally well, I turned into a car guy. Fun-to-drive is typically at the TOP of my list :) )

[Aaron O]

I'm speechless! :D

(I never used to be a 'car guy', but after driving a few German cars that handle exceptionally well, I turned into a car guy. Fun-to-drive is typically at the TOP of my list :) )

I'm not in position to make those choices right now...even if I wanted to. Starting at the bottom of pay scale in new career after working less the prior year.

I also park on street...I can't see parking a fancy car on street (though many in my area do).

[Aaron O]

I actually work under a former member here (when it was Serotta). Coincidence...and we didn't know one another on the site. It was a benefit during the interview though.

[carpediemracing]

<car stuff>

I'd vote 2 previous generation Civic sedan, if the leg room is okay. 2007-2011. If you can find a later model with 50k miles you'll probably see 200k miles, based on what I've seen. My brother has an Si with almost 190k miles on it, he lives in the boonies, drives it like a utensil and not a show car, it's gotten scraped in the parking lot, etc.

Low maintenance. Nothing weird that I know of. Easy to park, short overhangs. Fast enough, Si is actually fun.

Another would be, pending room, a newer Elantra hatch or the sister Kia hatch. 100k drivetrain warranty. With certain engines it'll be powerful enough (175-200 hp). Hatch really shortens length (our Golf hatch was 165" long, Jetta wagon 179" long, our new Civic sedan is 184" long?). Hatch also makes it possible to load bikes/etc.

I'm assuming no need for passenger room because a tall person in a small car means rear seats have zero leg room, so the hatch means you can fold down the rear seats and have a ton of usable storage. Only drawback is that it's visible from the outside, if doing street parking.

Every car has some weirdness; the trick is to try and figure out which ones aren't weird where it hits you. For example the new Ford Fusion, if you need to replace a headlight bulb, labor is in the $200 range because you have to remove the bumper to get to the bulbs. Some timing belts are super easy to do - older 1.6 liter Elantra, 45 minutes (book time 3.8 hours?), which is quick/easy. Etc.

[Steelman]

Here is a good starting point:

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/cars/

[Gummee]

I'm speechless! :D

(I never used to be a 'car guy', but after driving a few German cars that handle exceptionally well, I turned into a car guy. Fun-to-drive is typically at the TOP of my list :) )

That's why I drive an X3 6MT

M

[Louis]

A few days ago I saw what I believe is the new Civic hatchback, and it looks very nifty. Had it been available when I bought my '14 Impreza I would certainly have test-driven one.

However, I have been happy with the Impreza even though this year there hasn't been any significant snow. Even without the snow, the AWD does a great job helping with the handling.

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-inline1-photo-670269-s-original.jpg

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-inline2-photo-670270-s-original.jpg

[kgreene10]

I drove it a few months ago. Nice enough and good looks though the interior is made for kids who like video games. Still I would have considered it but despite the fact that I only have a 34' inseam, the seat didn't go back far enough for comfort. I was really surprised they would build a car that way in this day and age. Forget about fitting in the fit.

[Aaron O]

A few days ago I saw what I believe is the new Civic hatchback, and it looks very nifty. Had it been available when I bought my '14 Impreza I would certainly have test-driven one.

However, I have been happy with the Impreza even though this year there hasn't been any significant snow. Even without the snow, the AWD does a great job helping with the handling.

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-inline1-photo-670269-s-original.jpg

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-inline2-photo-670270-s-original.jpg
If the Impreza fit me more comfortably, I wouldn't have asked the question ;)

Love our Impreza (hatch back), but it doesn't have much room up front.

[stephenmarklay]

A few days ago I saw what I believe is the new Civic hatchback, and it looks very nifty. Had it been available when I bought my '14 Impreza I would certainly have test-driven one.

However, I have been happy with the Impreza even though this year there hasn't been any significant snow. Even without the snow, the AWD does a great job helping with the handling.

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-inline1-photo-670269-s-original.jpg

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2017-honda-civic-hatchback-inline2-photo-670270-s-original.jpg

I drove it last week. Indeed it is a very nice car. Thought about buying one but my the advantage of my Fit is the ease of parking and maneuvering. If I had to do a lot of highway the new civic would absolutely be in my top 5.

[stephenmarklay]

I drove it a few months ago. Nice enough and good looks though the interior is made for kids who like video games. Still I would have considered it but despite the fact that I only have a 34' inseam, the seat didn't go back far enough for comfort. I was really surprised they would build a car that way in this day and age. Forget about fitting in the fit.

interesting. I also have a 34” inseam and had no problem. In my Fit I am also fine but I put the seat all the way back. It may just be driver position. I drive a manual too.

[oldpotatoe]

As an aside, and dove-tailing in this a bit. Oldest son got side-swipped(hit and run), he's fine but car totaled(2007 Ford Fusion)..so got the insurance payout and gonna go buy a car, today(rental has to be returned this thursday). Don't mind the whole process(Honda shopping, probably new or used Civic or Accord)
but salesman games..how much, how about, this website says, how about, do this or I'll go across the street to CarMax.....dance is a PITA. :(

[jamesau]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but the 2017 Impreza is an all-new, upgraded model. You might look at it since you're happy with your older version.

[Bentley]

Looking to the well respected well for help! I don't know/care much about cars, but circumstances now have me driving. A lot. For the first time in a VERY long time. It may be long term :(

I live in town, with very difficult parking and would like to keep it smallish. At the same time, I like stretch out room. My desired car traits, in something resembling priority order are (and I know some are mutually exclusive):

Safe, at least relative

Reliable/minimal maintenance

Affordable repair parts

Long lived

smallish for city - but leg room. Prefer space in back for bike, but can add hitch.

affordable/fuel efficient. low to insure

Enough pick up to do 75 up a hill

Can handle snow/rain (prefer FWD? is this on all cars now?)

Things that shouldn't be considered...

Looks, handling, status.

I'm leaning Honda Civic coupe...but would love to hear other opinions.

I LOVE our Subaru Impreza, but the leg room is cramped for me.

I have a Ford CMax, its great. I bought this after I purchased my wife a Lincoln MKZ Hybrid. Honestly, the Lincoln has only been to the dealer for oil changes. The CMax just the same. It has the same engine and Electric Drive as the Lincoln. Fold down the seats and there is plenty of room for the bike. Easily carrys 4 people with luggage and I am getting 40MPG.

I have over 70K on my 2013 CMax, if I were to replace it, I would go with the plug in, even better mileage.

Best

Ray

[stephenmarklay]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but the 2017 Impreza is an all-new, upgraded model. You might look at it since you're happy with your older version.

This one does look good and I have had 3 Subarus in the house in the last 12 years.

They needed an update in the interior to stay relevant. After such a hard winter I may be back in one next year.

[carpediemracing]

We got our new Civic sedan, actually sat in it for the first time just now (the Missus's car, and I've been working long shifts so no time to go out). The car is wider and longer than our Jetta Sportswagen. It feels bigger parking/driving it. Interior room is similar but bigger. Lower hood, everything around the driver feels flatter/lower, much more visibility outward.

I haven't used the shifter but it seems like it'll be awesome. Short lever, short throws, very nice.

Lots of leg room, relatively speaking.

May not be ideal for city parking but it's certainly a nice car.

We got a sedan because the 6 spd manual wasn't available with heated seats except in one trim level in the sedan. We'd have preferred the hatch. As I commented to the Missus this morning in mid-20s temps, "We paid $4k for these heated seats, I'm going to use them." $4k might not be accurate but in the ballpark.

Facebook picture that won't be visible after a while:
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16712014_10155059656223824_5191409902334801386_n.j pg?oh=a18f2f44228649b97b281aedf5fd04ed&oe=5900CD57

[Tickdoc]

This is Correct.

If you're driving a lot you might as well enjoy it.

I'll echo this suggestion. Four of my employees and a bro-in-law have bought mazda's in the last three or four years and all have been great. Sporty/fun factor is just a tad bit better on a base Mazda, from what I have seen.

I would drive them all back to back to see which one fits, but can't go wrong with honda, subaru, or Mazda in the small car market.

FWIW, my high school Gym teacher still drives one of these little beauties. I see him tooling around from time to time (in his eighties now), and every time I think....damn, he bought the perfect car.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3e/Image-Karma@Reservoir'02s.jpg

[ColonelJLloyd]

As an aside, and dove-tailing in this a bit. Oldest son got side-swipped(hit and run), he's fine but car totaled(2007 Ford Fusion)..so got the insurance payout and gonna go buy a car, today(rental has to be returned this thursday). Don't mind the whole process(Honda shopping, probably new or used Civic or Accord)
but salesman games..how much, how about, this website says, how about, do this or I'll go across the street to CarMax.....dance is a PITA. :(

The worst, man. So bad. Perhaps this dealer model will mostly die out in a decade or so.

I said I would never buy a new car (or a used one from a dealer), but my wife's step-dad retired from Toyota and with the family plan it made sense for us when we bought a new car in late 2010. We did the research, knew what we wanted, walked-in to a dealer, they found the car and they said this is the price. But, if it weren't for that I would avoid a dealer, personally. I don't have time for games.

[biker72]

As an aside, and dove-tailing in this a bit. Oldest son got side-swipped(hit and run), he's fine but car totaled(2007 Ford Fusion)..so got the insurance payout and gonna go buy a car, today(rental has to be returned this thursday). Don't mind the whole process(Honda shopping, probably new or used Civic or Accord)
but salesman games..how much, how about, this website says, how about, do this or I'll go across the street to CarMax.....dance is a PITA. :(

I don't know about Colorado but my local Honda dealer is giving discounts this weekend I've never seen before. All models too. Normally they don't negotiate well. Honda sales must be down.

My philosophy when buying a car is that I'm in charge of the negotiation. I have the money...they want it....:D

[Tickdoc]

The worst, man. So bad. Perhaps this dealer model will mostly die out in a decade or so.

I said I would never buy a new car (or a used one from a dealer), but my wife's step-dad retired from Toyota and with the family plan it made sense for us when we bought a new car in late 2010. We did the research, knew what we wanted, walked-in to a dealer, they found the car and they said this is the price. But, if it weren't for that I would avoid a dealer, personally. I don't have time for games.

I always buy used, but from a dealer (CPO?) so there's a good warranty.

This is a bit of a thread drift, but one of my big factors with a purchase is service. Cars these days are so much more reliable than they used to be, but service can be such a pain. I want a loaner car and service to be included, and the dealer has to be conveniently close enough that I don't have to take off work to get there.

When I bought BMW, besides the car, part of the charm was my service advisor, Mike. Sounds silly, I know, but I knew that if there was ever a problem, he would take care of me. He gave me loaners way past the you get a free loaner car date. He bent over backwards to enforce warranty repairs, and just became a friend of sorts. I ended my love affair with BMW and had a side affair with Land Rover (what a mistake that was). The service was meh.

Then I bought a used Mercedes. Great car, great service, convenient location. I'm probably due for something else, but the car is still great. When I traded the land Rover in for the Mercedes, they offered me $5k over trade in for the Land Rover. I was flabbergasted. Haggled a few more thousand off the Mercedes, got way more out of the Land Rover than it was worth, and another dealer with good service to boot.

Fast forward two years past purchase and I have to take the Mercedes in for routine oil and filters, and lo and behold, Mike is my service advisor! He left BMW after twenty years and switched over.

Recently I noticed my wood interior was faded and brought it up to him when i needed a tire replaced. He said he would warranty it that it shouldn't fade like that. It costs $7k to replace the wood in my car. That is ridiculous, imo. He ordered it, took about a month to get here from Germany, and took them just a few hours to install. The interior looks brand new now. Man, I love Mike.

Ok, back to your car, which one are you gonna choose?

[Aaron O]

I always buy used, but from a dealer (CPO?) so there's a good warranty.

This is a bit of a thread drift, but one of my big factors with a purchase is service. Cars these days are so much more reliable than they used to be, but service can be such a pain. I want a loaner car and service to be included, and the dealer has to be conveniently close enough that I don't have to take off work to get there.

When I bought BMW, besides the car, part of the charm was my service advisor, Mike. Sounds silly, I know, but I knew that if there was ever a problem, he would take care of me. He gave me loaners way past the you get a free loaner car date. He bent over backwards to enforce warranty repairs, and just became a friend of sorts. I ended my love affair with BMW and had a side affair with Land Rover (what a mistake that was). The service was meh.

Then I bought a used Mercedes. Great car, great service, convenient location. I'm probably due for something else, but the car is still great. When I traded the land Rover in for the Mercedes, they offered me $5k over trade in for the Land Rover. I was flabbergasted. Haggled a few more thousand off the Mercedes, got way more out of the Land Rover than it was worth, and another dealer with good service to boot.

Fast forward two years past purchase and I have to take the Mercedes in for routine oil and filters, and lo and behold, Mike is my service advisor! He left BMW after twenty years and switched over.

Recently I noticed my wood interior was faded and brought it up to him when i needed a tire replaced. He said he would warranty it that it shouldn't fade like that. It costs $7k to replace the wood in my car. That is ridiculous, imo. He ordered it, took about a month to get here from Germany, and took them just a few hours to install. The interior looks brand new now. Man, I love Mike.

Ok, back to your car, which one are you gonna choose?
Learning this one the hard way with the Subaru...our dealer is in the burbs, about 15 miles away. Great dealership - like them very much...but we always end up paying a local shop for service because of the distance/hassle. That's nothing they did wrong.

I'm leaning on trying to get through this season in my beater car and changing afterwards. I don't even have the time to shop/test them right now.

I bought a 2006 Ford Focus hatchback with 120,000 miles on it about 7 years ago. Since then we added another 40,000 miles and it's needed almost no work. It's been dependable. The problem is, it's under powered and handles "funny" at speed. I don't feel safe with it on the highway.

[likebikes]

are you looking to sell the aforementioned 06 focus? i'm actually in the market for one..

[Aaron O]

are you looking to sell the aforementioned 06 focus? i'm actually in the market for one..

Sheesh...I will be when I get another car. Has some bumper damage. Lots o' miles.

The car is a bit under powered...I mean to the point where you don't want to run the AC past two when it's idling.

[pbarry]

Last summer I purchased a 2016 Chevy Sonic LT sedan with the 1.8 NA engine and 6 spd auto trans. Looked at the Festiva, Fit, and Versa before buying. Peppy, handles great, plenty of front leg room and room for bikes with the seats folded. Parks anywhere. Getting 32-36 mpg in mixed driving. Before sales tax: 14,300. Rated just behind the Fit for subcompacts, and higher in safety. 50% made in the U.S. Since purchase, I've been behind the wheels of a Prius and an Elantra, and prefer the Sonic to both.

[Aaron O]

Last summer I purchased a 2016 Chevy Sonic LT sedan with the 1.8 NA engine and 6 spd auto trans. Looked at the Festiva, Fit, and Versa before buying. Peppy, handles great, plenty of front leg room and room for bikes with the seats folded. Parks anywhere. Getting 32-36 mpg in mixed driving. Before sales tax: 14,300. Rated just behind the Fit for subcompacts, and higher in safety. 50% made in the U.S. Since purchase, I've been behind the wheels of a Prius and an Elantra, and prefer the Sonic to both.

Will check one out...thanks for input.

[Ken Robb]

the doors are longer and sometimes harder to open fully in tight spots. You get no more interior room and a bigger hassle to get rear passengers in.
yep!

[Ralph]

The Honda HRV is slightly larger than a Fit....but has the same magic seats. More interior room for bikes, people, and stuff than a Civic hatch Coupe (2 or 4 door). Some mags claim the 1.8 L engine is weak.....probably OK for me....but some of you may want more. Rumor is the Civic 1.5 turbo engine coming for this car. Newer Honda 4's have timing chains, not belts....less maintenance. I like this car for what you describe you want. Cheap...easy to park, good economy, super reliable....standard parts bin Honda parts.....maybe not fancy or expensive enough for thieves to strip or steal.

Not my ideal vehicle for my use (I have a 3 car garage which I use for 3 cars), but were I you, would not spend much for a car to park on the street where there is street crime. Based on what you say....you want a basic transportation piece with some hauling room. Whichever vehicle you choose....would get the base cheapest model. And don't overlook the lower level hatch Mazda's.

[Aaron O]

I have a stupid question...and remember I'm NOT a car guy. I -think- turbo is a different fuel injection system? It adds power? Does it add maintenance costs, or give less life?

I do want a nice stereo system and MP3 capability...but I gather that's better to buy 3rd party. I don't really want the fancy cameras and such...I know how to park.

[Ken Robb]

We really like our 2014 Mazda 3 sedan w/2.5L engine and auto trans. 30,000+ miles, no problems, cheap routine service, nice dealer (John Hine).

My MINI got sideswiped so it's in the shop and I have 2016 Chevy Cruze LT rental. I am pleasantly surprised. It isn't as peppy as our Mazda but it's no dog. It rides softer and quieter but the handling isn't as sporty. I see lots of them for sale with low miles because they seem to be popular with rental companies.

I saw some nice-looking used cars at Enterprise when I got this rental this week. They offer several days to love a car or return it and extended warrantys I think. I still prefer Mazda 3 but I could live with a Cruze for a cheap-running commuter.

[ceolwulf]

I have a stupid question...and remember I'm NOT a car guy. I -think- turbo is a different fuel injection system? It adds power? Does it add maintenance costs, or give less life?

I do want a nice stereo system and MP3 capability...but I gather that's better to buy 3rd party. I don't really want the fancy cameras and such...I know how to park.

Turbo is basically an air compressor driven by a turbine placed in the exhaust (hence "turbo"). When the engine is under load, more exhaust flows out, the turbo spins up and pushes more air into the engine, more air and fuel = bigger bang = more power. The principle is when you're just cruising along on the highway or steady speeds you get the economy of a small engine, but when you need the power of a big engine you step on it and it's there.

Downsides are quite a bit more complexity and potentially more (expensive) maintenance.

They used to be used only on performance cars, and they're a lot of fun when tuned that way, but now manufacturers have figured out that you can basically game the EPA fuel economy test by tuning a turbo engine so that it's off boost most of the time during the test. That's why you get odd things going on now like a big heavy Ford Fusion coming with a 1.6 litre engine. So it does wonders for the CAFE ratings for the manufacturer but may or may not give you quite as good fuel economy in the real world. Most of them are quite good though.

Mazda's approach to getting great fuel economy without a turbo seems to be more sensible long term though. Turbo engines have to be heavier built, which costs a little efficiency. Mazda make theirs lightweight, and use a very high compression ratio and a bit bigger displacement to get more torque at low RPMs, which the turbo engines rely on boost for. So it's simpler, lighter, and more responsive, although giving up some overall power.

edit: about the aftermarket audio - most audio systems are so integrated now that installing aftermarket audio is a lot more trouble that it's worth. Just get it up front.

[p nut]

Modern turbo's being liquid/oil cooled are much more reliable than the old air cooled units. But if you're looking for better longevity, I would steer away from them. Stick with a simple N/A engine.

[maj]

Don't most turbos require premium fuel too?

[Ken Robb]

Don't most turbos require premium fuel too?
Some but not all. 2016 Chevy Cruze rental I have uses regular gas. BTW, Cruze was totally redone for 2016 model year and it is WAY better than the older model.

[Aaron O]

I'm now @ information overload...thanks all :crap:

What I'm really taking away from this is that all of the modern cars are pretty good...try a few, see which you like. I think I'd prefer steering away from turbo if I can get a decent amount of power for highway driving.

The Mazda 3 was a fun, peppy car to drive...but we went Impreza head to head. The 3 might be good for my application though. If I recall, our mechanic steered us away from Mazda and towards Subaru.

[tylercheung]

They are both about the same mechanically in my experience. Both pretty reliable for Japanese cars; the Subies tended to be slightly more expensive because of AWD and slightly more complicated engines. The difference I think was the Mazda 3 (the newer ones) are more nimble, lighter and have better gas mileage, the Subies are more of a go-everywhere car because of AWD.

The older Mazdas had issues w/ rust proofing but I now thankfully live in LA instead of the east coast...the newer ones are supposed to be better.

The Track rats go for the MX-5 Miata or the Subie BRZ!

Hondas are getting better - they had issues w/ quality for the last generation; started building the cars in Mexico and Ohio instead of Japan and had to work out the kinks in suppliers or whatnot but the newer generation civic is much better, supposedly. Always relatively solid engineering, Big H.

Ford, actually, is hitting it out of the park supposedly w/ their smaller "hot hatches" in terms of the Focus and Fiesta..

Me, I hit a midlife crisis and went with a BMW 228i. great little car...I'm sure I'm going to be paying out the nose on service, though...

(sorry, I get nerdy on anything with wheels on them.....)

[Louis]

We got a sedan because the 6 spd manual wasn't available with heated seats except in one trim level in the sedan. We'd have preferred the hatch. As I commented to the Missus this morning in mid-20s temps, "We paid $4k for these heated seats, I'm going to use them." $4k might not be accurate but in the ballpark.

It's interested to see what's important to whom.

It gets just as cold, and even colder, here in MO, but the switch for the heated seats in my '14 Impreza has never, ever been flipped. Not even once. Now if it had a heated steering wheel, I'm certain I would have used that, and often, but for the seats, I've never felt the need.

[josephr]

I'll echo this suggestion. Four of my employees and a bro-in-law have bought mazda's in the last three or four years and all have been great. Sporty/fun factor is just a tad bit better on a base Mazda, from what I have seen.

I would drive them all back to back to see which one fits, but can't go wrong with honda, subaru, or Mazda in the small car market.

FWIW, my high school Gym teacher still drives one of these little beauties. I see him tooling around from time to time (in his eighties now), and every time I think....damn, he bought the perfect car.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3e/Image-Karma@Reservoir'02s.jpg

I was hoping for this when Honda announced the new hatchback...the new hatchback looks boy-racer stupid designevd by some kid who's visits the SEMA shows too often. Not just Honda, but the Toyota Matrix re-boot is one the same level. I suggest these reasons are why the new CUVs are popular.

[shovelhd]

Don't most turbos require premium fuel too?

My GTI (normal compression turbocharged motor) will run on regular, with reduced power and economy. Premium is recommended. The fuel door is marked "91 octane minimum".

[p nut]

I was hoping for this when Honda announced the new hatchback...the new hatchback looks boy-racer stupid designevd by some kid who's visits the SEMA shows too often. Not just Honda, but the Toyota Matrix re-boot is one the same level. I suggest these reasons are why the new CUVs are popular.

That's what the Fit was for me. A throwback to the glory days. I miss that car.

I agree about the new hatchbacks. Disappointment. Ford Fiesta may be a good alternative for that type of car.

[shovelhd]

Nothing looks more bizarre than the new Prius.

[ceolwulf]

Nothing looks more bizarre than the new Prius.

I think they made an earnest effort to ensure that that would be the case.

[Ken Robb]

I'm now @ information overload...thanks all :crap:

What I'm really taking away from this is that all of the modern cars are pretty good...try a few, see which you like. I think I'd prefer steering away from turbo if I can get a decent amount of power for highway driving.

The Mazda 3 was a fun, peppy car to drive...but we went Impreza head to head. The 3 might be good for my application though. If I recall, our mechanic steered us away from Mazda and towards Subaru.

I doubt that your mechanic has much experience with either brand of new)ish) cars since most come with at least 3 year warranties so any required work would be done at the dealers.

[carpediemracing]

It's interested to see what's important to whom.

It gets just as cold, and even colder, here in MO, but the switch for the heated seats in my '14 Impreza has never, ever been flipped. Not even once. Now if it had a heated steering wheel, I'm certain I would have used that, and often, but for the seats, I've never felt the need.

Yep. My car (the red one in the background) doesn't have heated seats, although I was the first one between the two of us to have heated seats (in a Z).

I was really tempted to look into seeing if the hatch wiring harness has the seat heater plugs already in there, which means that I could get the heater elements and switches and put it in myself, with a factory look/feel.

However I decided it wasn't worth all the effort, of selling that work to the Missus, etc.

I decided to approach other things on the car so, for example, we're doing +1 rims for the summer (18" vs 17", 8" wide vs 7"), with +0 fitment (so 245/40-18 vs 215/45-18), and nice high performance summer tires. Better stopping/cornering. The OEM 17" will get snow tires any day now and then sit in the garage during the warmer months.

Some other possible "sales" to the Missus would be to drop the car an inch, possible brake pads to improve braking a bit (the tires should be major there). I don't think there is much else to do on the car.

I still sort of wish we got the hatch but the sedan is very nice.

btw does anyone want to buy any 215/50-17 tires? They'll probably have 100-200 miles on them when we sell them.

[Louis]

Well, I just got home from the monthly St Louis Alfa club meeting, and one of the members brought his brand spanking new, just picked up from the dealer on Friday (ie two days ago) Giulia. Pretty nifty.

So, I have to suggest that as a car for the OP - completely inappropriate for his needs, but hey, sometimes you have to go all the way. You saw the ads during the Superbowl, you know the long-legged Italian chicks will soon be all over you if you drive this around...

(image isn't the one I saw today - it was dark by the time I got there)

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/369/981/5/S3699815/slug/l/2017-alfa-romeo-giulia-001-1.jpg

[snah]

Little late and this might have been mentioned in the 6 pages I didn't read, but the new Honda Civic 4 door hatch could be a contender.

[gomango]

Honda Fit, any year. Done.

I agree.

We have a 2008 and it seems to be indestructible.

Not even our teenagers have managed to wreck this car.

I can put two bikes in the back no problem.

I have a Thule roof rack on it to carry our kayaks and its super easy to lift them on and off.

Aaron, another one I have my eye on is the new Civic hatchback.

Good mileage and it looks quite versatile.

[gomango]

Little late and this might have been mentioned in the 6 pages I didn't read, but the new Honda Civic 4 door hatch could be a contender.

Yes, I really like these. We are definitely thinking about one in the next year or two.

Solid city car, but would also be great for our jaunts up to the family cabin.

Not that expensive either.

[batman1425]

It's interested to see what's important to whom.

It gets just as cold, and even colder, here in MO, but the switch for the heated seats in my '14 Impreza has never, ever been flipped. Not even once. Now if it had a heated steering wheel, I'm certain I would have used that, and often, but for the seats, I've never felt the need.

My new car (got it 6mo ago) has them. Our first car with them, and both the wife and I use them all the time. The drive to work is short, usually not enough time for the engine to warm up enough to get the heat pumping - especially in the single digit and below days that we see regularly (most winters). Seat warmers are noticeable after a minute or 2. Also help keep my back loose on longer car trips.

[SoCalSteve]

Looking to the well respected well for help! I don't know/care much about cars, but circumstances now have me driving. A lot. For the first time in a VERY long time. It may be long term :(

I live in town, with very difficult parking and would like to keep it smallish. At the same time, I like stretch out room. My desired car traits, in something resembling priority order are (and I know some are mutually exclusive):

Safe, at least relative

Reliable/minimal maintenance

Affordable repair parts

Long lived

smallish for city - but leg room. Prefer space in back for bike, but can add hitch.

affordable/fuel efficient. low to insure

Enough pick up to do 75 up a hill

Can handle snow/rain (prefer FWD? is this on all cars now?)

Things that shouldn't be considered...

Looks, handling, status.

I'm leaning Honda Civic coupe...but would love to hear other opinions.

I LOVE our Subaru Impreza, but the leg room is cramped for me.

What you really want is this...:p

Has everything you are looking for and more, much much more...:beer:

Enjoy!

[Aaron O]

What you really want is this...:p

Has everything you are looking for and more, much much more...:beer:

Enjoy!

:p

A few problems:

1. I couldn't afford it if I wanted it right now.
2. I hate everything about it.

Other than that...

[SoCalSteve]

:p

A few problems:

1. I couldn't afford it if I wanted it right now.
2. I hate everything about it.

Other than that...

See, I told you it was perfect!!!

[staggerwing]

Little late and this might have been mentioned in the 6 pages I didn't read, but the new Honda Civic 4 door hatch could be a contender.

I'm a closet Honda guy, once had an 89 CRX si and currently have a 06 S2000 in the garage. But, if that is the design direction they are embracing, I'm out. Needlessly angular and "Transformerish" with an excessively sloped hatch. Looks like they took the Accord Crosstour design and applied it to a Civic. Honda had this figured out long ago, and at least VW still knows how to do it. Oddly, Americans have never fully embraced the hatch, unless grafted to the back end of a CUV/SUV.

Still like the clean, balanced look of 2003-2005ish, 2-door, Civic si hatches.

[Aaron O]

I'm a closet Honda guy, once had an 89 CRX si and currently have a 06 S2000 in the garage. But, if that is the design direction they are embracing, I'm out. Needlessly angular and "Transformerish" with an excessively sloped hatch. Looks like they took the Accord Crosstour design and applied it to a Civic. Honda had this figured out long ago, and at least VW still knows how to do it. Oddly, Americans have never fully embraced the hatch, unless grafted to the back end of a CUV/SUV.

Still like the clean, balanced look of 2003-2005ish, 2-door, Civic si hatches.
I LOVE hatch backs...wife's car is a hatch back. I was thinking coupe because I figured it would have more leg room...if it doesn't, I'd prefer hatchback.

[gomango]

Still like the clean, balanced look of 2003-2005ish, 2-door, Civic si hatches.


So do I, but the new Civic Type R intrigues me as well.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/523526/2017-honda-civic-type-r-confirmed-for-geneva/

FWIW I'd be pleased with the pedestrian touring version though. It would suit our needs quite nicely at this point in our lives. No drama on the way to the Farmer's Market!

[pjm]

I'm a closet Honda guy, once had an 89 CRX si and currently have a 06 S2000 in the garage. But, if that is the design direction they are embracing, I'm out. Needlessly angular and "Transformerish" with an excessively sloped hatch. Looks like they took the Accord Crosstour design and applied it to a Civic. Honda had this figured out long ago, and at least VW still knows how to do it. Oddly, Americans have never fully embraced the hatch, unless grafted to the back end of a CUV/SUV.

Still like the clean, balanced look of 2003-2005ish, 2-door, Civic si hatches.

That's it! I was thinking Star Wars when I first saw one of these, but Transformers nails it. I mean, how much black plastic honeycomb stuff can you slap on one car? I was looking forward to this car, but the styling seems to be aimed at pre-teen boys.

[Louis]

OK, for you guys demanding a stylish hatchback, how about this? (I'm assuming 650 hp is enough for you)

Notice, no drop-cloth to protect the back from the soon-to-be filthy MTB.


https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--gUoQvNog--/c_scale,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/hhpt9vinc1uxrm7yzoad.jpg

http://www.designboom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ferrari-FF-designboom11.jpg

[p nut]

OK, for you guys demanding a stylish hatchback, how about this? (I'm assuming 650 hp is enough for you)

Notice, no drop-cloth to protect the back from the soon-to-be filthy MTB.


http://www.designboom.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ferrari-FF-designboom11.jpg

Nah. That MTB, won't ever see dirt.

:D

[staggerwing]

I LOVE hatch backs...wife's car is a hatch back. I was thinking coupe because I figured it would have more leg room...if it doesn't, I'd prefer hatchback.

Oh, in case it wasn't clear, I love hatchbacks too, just not the new Civic. The current Honda's also feature perversely busy instrument layouts, and it gets worse as one moves higher up the food chain. Again, they had this figured out ages ago.

Lets see, over the years I've had a 1980 Dodge Colt (really a Mitsubishi with an odd twin stick transmission, a 4speed with an overdrive lever, worked for all gears, including reverse), a 1989 Honda CRXsi, a 2005 Mazda 3s, and presently, a 2011 Volvo C30; hatchbacks one and all. :D

[Louis]

Lets see, over the years I've had a 1980 Dodge Colt (really a Mitsubishi with an odd twin stick transmission, a 4speed with an overdrive lever, worked for all gears, including reverse), a 1989 Honda CRXsi, a 2005 Mazda 3s, and presently, a 2011 Volvo C30; hatchbacks one and all. :D

I see you've left out the greatest hatchback EVER: the Acura Integra / RSX!

More seriously, I really liked my '97 and got 265k miles from it with few significant mechanical issues. I would have gladly bought the exact same car (but new) in '14 when I finally sold it, but Acura went upscale and no longer made anything like it. (So I bought the Subie Impreza.)

[Polyglot]

Philly used to have a program where if you got an electric and put in a charger, you'd get a reserved for electric spot in front of it. Council is apparently getting rid of the rule (was hoping to go that route for my parking).

Are you sure that this has already been cancelled? If it is still available and you can live with the range limitations, an electric BMW i3 meets all your requirements. It should require less maintenance than any internal combustion engine as there is no need to change oil, nor spark plugs... (in one year we have not spent a penny on maintenance, which bugs me because the car came with three years of free maintenance which we aren't using). It is comparably short but is large enough to fit two bikes inside with the rear seat folded down. It even fits my daughter's upright base. I'm a bit taller than you and I don't even put the seat all the way back, so the leg room is there. You can fit 4 adults inside. It has one of the smallest turning circles of any car sold, so combined with the short length, you can't do any better when parking in Philly. It also has thermoplastic body panels that are particularly resistant to minor shunts in the city. It out accelerates virtually any of the other cars mentioned so far. The battery pack comes with an 8 year or 100K mile guarantee. It was the most efficient car sold in America until this year and is the greenest car built (built in a 0 carbon footprint factory and has likely the highest percent of recycled materials used for manufacturing and more of the car can be recycled that virtually any other car.) With snow tires it is fantastic in the snow even though it has rear wheel drive because of the very low center of gravity and perfect weight distribution and narrow tires with comparatively large contact patch.

The negatives are that they are outrageously expensive to buy new (but are VERY cheap used or when leased, you can get a two year-old car in the high teens or low 20's). You need charger availability at home and/or work. You have range limitations (unless you get the range extender version).

Propulsion expenses will be about half of your Subaru. You are more than welcome to come over and take our car for a test drive.

[likebikes]

probably worth throwing toyota prius into the ring.

[weisan]

I paid $1700 for this little car three years ago and had been having so much fun driving it around... :D

(Pictures - not actual car but looked the same)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-T5eqZj8gacI/TimnJ4B1eeI/AAAAAAAAC-Y/590NjnwZy5w/s1600/Honda-Accord-1995-white.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/aZtE2cV6HI8/hqdefault.jpg

I only drives it three miles from the house to the train station every day and commute the rest of the way through train and my bike. I only need to top up gas maybe once every three weeks or so. It certainly qualifies as one of my best "purchases" and if you are so inclined to throw more money into it (I wouldn't), it can be done.

http://img.modifiedcartrader.com/uploaded/XL/2012/07/Honda-Accord--for-sale-custom-30841-816330.jpg

[Louis]

Tell the truth, Weisan, THIS is your Accord:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_JkEMANzwg

[staggerwing]

I see you've left out the greatest hatchback EVER: the Acura Integra / RSX!

More seriously, I really liked my '97 and got 265k miles from it with few significant mechanical issues. I would have gladly bought the exact same car (but new) in '14 when I finally sold it, but Acura went upscale and no longer made anything like it. (So I bought the Subie Impreza.)

While I never had one, after finishing graduate school a friend implored me to help him chose his first new car. While the final decision was his, I may have had something to do with his purchase of an ice white, 94 Integra GS-R.

Truly, one of Honda's finest.

[Aaron O]

Are you sure that this has already been cancelled? If it is still available and you can live with the range limitations, an electric BMW i3 meets all your requirements. It should require less maintenance than any internal combustion engine as there is no need to change oil, nor spark plugs... (in one year we have not spent a penny on maintenance, which bugs me because the car came with three years of free maintenance which we aren't using). It is comparably short but is large enough to fit two bikes inside with the rear seat folded down. It even fits my daughter's upright base. I'm a bit taller than you and I don't even put the seat all the way back, so the leg room is there. You can fit 4 adults inside. It has one of the smallest turning circles of any car sold, so combined with the short length, you can't do any better when parking in Philly. It also has thermoplastic body panels that are particularly resistant to minor shunts in the city. It out accelerates virtually any of the other cars mentioned so far. The battery pack comes with an 8 year or 100K mile guarantee. It was the most efficient car sold in America until this year and is the greenest car built (built in a 0 carbon footprint factory and has likely the highest percent of recycled materials used for manufacturing and more of the car can be recycled that virtually any other car.) With snow tires it is fantastic in the snow even though it has rear wheel drive because of the very low center of gravity and perfect weight distribution and narrow tires with comparatively large contact patch.

The negatives are that they are outrageously expensive to buy new (but are VERY cheap used or when leased, you can get a two year-old car in the high teens or low 20's). You need charger availability at home and/or work. You have range limitations (unless you get the range extender version).

Propulsion expenses will be about half of your Subaru. You are more than welcome to come over and take our car for a test drive.
I really appreciate the offer! They've suspended current applications already in the queue and aren't taking new ones. It's probably also out of my affordable range right now...it's a reboot time and a bit tighter.

[martl]

Turbo is basically an air compressor driven by a turbine placed in the exhaust (hence "turbo"). When the engine is under load, more exhaust flows out, the turbo spins up and pushes more air into the engine, more air and fuel = bigger bang = more power. The principle is when you're just cruising along on the highway or steady speeds you get the economy of a small engine, but when you need the power of a big engine you step on it and it's there.

Downsides are quite a bit more complexity and potentially more (expensive) maintenance.

They used to be used only on performance cars, and they're a lot of fun when tuned that way, but now manufacturers have figured out that you can basically game the EPA fuel economy test by tuning a turbo engine so that it's off boost most of the time during the test. That's why you get odd things going on now like a big heavy Ford Fusion coming with a 1.6 litre engine. So it does wonders for the CAFE ratings for the manufacturer but may or may not give you quite as good fuel economy in the real world. Most of them are quite good though.


Small correction: From an engineering point of view, a turbo is better suited for a diesel engine, where it will enhance efficiency, than for an Otto engine (= in cars, gasoline), where it primarily boosts performance at the cost of low efficiency at rev ranges where the turbo does not yet work = added fuel consumption.
Efficiency for turbo-loaded Otto-engines is bad as the compression has to be reduced. This has only been somewhat compensated quite recently by pulling all kind of sophisticated mechanical and electronical tricks, so that the reduced inner friction of the smaller engine overcomes the Turbo disadvantage.

[Aaron O]

Small correction: From an engineering point of view, a turbo is better suited for a diesel engine, where it will enhance efficiency, than for an Otto engine (= in cars, gasoline), where it primarily boosts performance at the cost of low efficiency at rev ranges where the turbo does not yet work = added fuel consumption.
Efficiency for turbo-loaded Otto-engines is bad as the compression has to be reduced. This has only been somewhat compensated quite recently by pulling all kind of sophisticated mechanical and electronical tricks, so that the reduced inner friction of the smaller engine overcomes the Turbo disadvantage.

Uhmmm...thanks for that clarification :help::confused::o

[malcolm]

The Honda Fit is very decent, if it has enough room. Superb reliability and mileage. The Civic is great too and a bit more sedan'ish.

Didn't read the entire thread but I can't think of anything that would meet your needs better than a fit. Small but roomy, reasonable pep, cheap to buy and operate and honda reliable.

[martl]

Uhmmm...thanks for that clarification :help::confused::o

i can give you a one-sentence abstract: In non-diesel-engines, a turbo isn't there to improve mpg :)

[Kobe]

Sat in the Kia Niro at the Philly Auto Show, plenty of room for me at 6'6". Kia has come a long ways and has an outstanding warranty. Plus 52 mpg in the city.

http://www.caranddriver.com/kia/niro

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2017-kia-niro-inline1-photo-673917-s-original.jpg

[Aaron O]

Sat in the Kia Niro at the Philly Auto Show, plenty of room for me at 6'6". Kia has come a long ways and has an outstanding warranty. Plus 52 mpg in the city.

http://www.caranddriver.com/kia/niro

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2017-kia-niro-inline1-photo-673917-s-original.jpg

Now that looks interesting/promising.

[shovelhd]

Sat in the Kia Niro at the Philly Auto Show, plenty of room for me at 6'6". Kia has come a long ways and has an outstanding warranty. Plus 52 mpg in the city.

The RAV4 Hybrid owned this segment. Not anymore.

[p nut]

Small correction: From an engineering point of view, a turbo is better suited for a diesel engine, where it will enhance efficiency, than for an Otto engine (= in cars, gasoline), where it primarily boosts performance at the cost of low efficiency at rev ranges where the turbo does not yet work = added fuel consumption.
Efficiency for turbo-loaded Otto-engines is bad as the compression has to be reduced. This has only been somewhat compensated quite recently by pulling all kind of sophisticated mechanical and electronical tricks, so that the reduced inner friction of the smaller engine overcomes the Turbo disadvantage.

My current F150 (2.7L V6 turbo) has pretty good amount of usable torque down low. Peaks at 4k, but still has gobs available at 2k.

http://www.thehulltruth.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=441639&stc=1&d=1406231689

Where gas turbos fall short of diesel is heat.

[shovelhd]

I went from a VW turbo diesel to a VW turbo gasser. The gasser has plenty of torque down low. When I'm easy on the go pedal the DSG shifts at 1500rpm. Where it totally outshines the diesel is power. Not even close. Mileage is lower but I knew that. Last tank was 31.4mpg calculated.

[Seramount]

I see you've left out the greatest hatchback EVER: the Acura Integra / RSX!

More seriously, I really liked my '97 and got 265k miles from it with few significant mechanical issues. I would have gladly bought the exact same car (but new) in '14 when I finally sold it, but Acura went upscale and no longer made anything like it. (So I bought the Subie Impreza.)

totally agree...went from a '94 Integra to a 2006 RSX Type-S (last year made)...

both were / are great cars. the rear seat stays in permanent 'down' mode for hauling bikes, dive gear, groceries, etc.

love the styling, mileage, handling...the Integra was a decent performer, but the Type-S 8200 rpm VTEC can get you down the road in a hurry.

Acura should bring the RSX back, I'd buy a new one in a heartbeat.

[Mikej]

totally agree...went from a '94 Integra to a 2006 RSX Type-S (last year made)...

both were / are great cars. the rear seat stays in permanent 'down' mode for hauling bikes, dive gear, groceries, etc.

love the styling, mileage, handling...the Integra was a decent performer, but the Type-S 8200 rpm VTEC can get you down the road in a hurry.

Acura should bring the RSX back, I'd buy a new one in a heartbeat.

They did, except now its called an ILX comes only in sedan and no hatch. Id look into the new civic sedan hatch. Pretty close to the RSX, may have to get the SI version for the HP tho.

[tctyres]

Now that looks interesting/promising.

So what was the final winner in this thread? Curious..... :beer:

[Aaron O]

So what was the final winner in this thread? Curious..... :beer:

The final winner is...

Drum roll...

Suspense...





I'm waiting a few more weeks to worry about it. Probably a month. Leaning heavily civic hatchback.

[jlyon]

I bought a 2017 Civic Hatchback LX no options for my daughter.

I love driving that thing it is so fun and fast and had enough room to get a smallish cabinet from Pier One in the back the other day. That would not have fit inside my accord.

I have not thrown my bike in the back but since they are 61CM bikes I think I would at least have to take off the front wheel still like in my accord trunk.

I would trade my Accord sport straight up for another one for me. Even my wife loves to drive it and she is has to a Lexus GS300.

It is black so you don't really notice the fake plastic bits because they too are black.

The only gripe I have about the LX is how small the screen is for the backup camera but that is only used for a few seconds each day.

[OtayBW]

The final winner is...

Drum roll...

Suspense...
The winner is..........MAC!...no wait...DELL!...no wait....wrong thread!:no:

[cmbicycles]

The final winner is...

Drum roll...

Suspense...




If this going to be like Weisan's, "guess what my new bike is?"...I don't know if I can handle that much suspense ;)

[Aaron O]

I park in Philadelphia! I don't need no stinking camera...that's what the bumper "kiss" is for!

So far my old Ford Focus in getting me through the season!

[Aaron O]

I bought a 2017 Civic Hatchback LX no options for my daughter.

I love driving that thing it is so fun and fast and had enough room to get a smallish cabinet from Pier One in the back the other day. That would not have fit inside my accord.

I have not thrown my bike in the back but since they are 61CM bikes I think I would at least have to take off the front wheel still like in my accord trunk.

I would trade my Accord sport straight up for another one for me. Even my wife loves to drive it and she is has to a Lexus GS300.

It is black so you don't really notice the fake plastic bits because they too are black.

The only gripe I have about the LX is how small the screen is for the backup camera but that is only used for a few seconds each day.

I'm making a final choice...

It's between the Civic hatchback EX and the 4 door sedan EX. I prefer hatchbacks and I love how the hatchback drove, but I'm very worried about turbo reliability. My mechanic is definitely not a fan of turbo.

Also liked the focus, especially for the money, but the ride wasn't quite as plush as the Civic. Not as crazy about most others I tried.

[carpediemracing]

I'm making a final choice...

It's between the Civic hatchback EX and the 4 door sedan EX. I prefer hatchbacks and I love how the hatchback drove, but I'm very worried about turbo reliability. My mechanic is definitely not a fan of turbo.

Also liked the focus, especially for the money, but the ride wasn't quite as plush as the Civic. Not as crazy about most others I tried.

I can't speak for turbo reliability. They do generate more heat in the engine compartment and specifically heat up the oil and coolant more than a non-turbo engine. I'll poll the guys at work to see what they think for daily drivers, long term (I work in a car place).

Not sure if I posted this here but we got the 4 door Civic EX, 2017, mid Feb. The Missus's requirements: 1.5 turbo, 6 spd, heated seats, available only in the EX-Touring sedan. If we could have gotten the hatch with those options we would have, but not available so we didn't. I've only driven it twice, we only have about 800 miles on it, but so far so good. I'll be driving it tomorrow to put on its summer shoes. So far so good. The Missus will take it on about a 900 mile road trip this weekend, I think we'll see how it really is at that point.

[p nut]

I'm making a final choice...

It's between the Civic hatchback EX and the 4 door sedan EX. I prefer hatchbacks and I love how the hatchback drove, but I'm very worried about turbo reliability. My mechanic is definitely not a fan of turbo.

Also liked the focus, especially for the money, but the ride wasn't quite as plush as the Civic. Not as crazy about most others I tried.

I don't know if Honda would take the risk in ruining their reputation for reliability for a few more HP. I personally wouldn't worry about reliability, when it comes to the Civic, and if I were buying today, would most definitely go for the hatchback (6sp, Sport, please). I get a bit of nostalgia when I see one of these, which reminds me of the good ol'days of Honda (90's) and the Integra's and Civics I loved. Never got that with the prior gen Civics (post-2001).

[YoKev]

Sat in the Kia Niro at the Philly Auto Show, plenty of room for me at 6'6". Kia has come a long ways and has an outstanding warranty. Plus 52 mpg in the city.

http://www.caranddriver.com/kia/niro

http://media.caranddriver.com/images/media/51/2017-kia-niro-inline1-photo-673917-s-original.jpg

The Niro seems very nice indeed

I drove a '16 Kia Rio 5-door for two weeks while on vacation, and I was impressed with it. I don't know what that says about me and my car tastes, but it struck me as a well built car that represented a great value for what it was.

If the Cee'd wagon was available here I'd probably have one.

[pncguy]

"All-wheel drive is not available..."

I think I'll stick with an Outback for my driving in Colorado.

[likebikes]

My mechanic is definitely not a fan of turbo.

I'm guessing he's never seen one in person/driven one, let alone had to work on one as it's a new vehicle that just became available?

he sounds like a quack.

[andeww]

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-global/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/369/981/5/S3699815/slug/l/2017-alfa-romeo-giulia-001-1.jpg

I saw one this morning for the first time! In black and a very sleek car -- On the flip side, i am not used to seeing alfas on the street and wasnt sure if it was new jaguar or kia

[Aaron O]

I'm guessing he's never seen one in person/driven one, let alone had to work on one as it's a new vehicle that just became available?

he sounds like a quack.

Actually he's done a damn good job at fair pricing over the years; I like him very much. I don't know much about cars, but even a one hour search on line made it pretty apparent that there have been numerous problems with turbos of various manufacturers...and it's pretty easy to see that they're more complicated and there are greater pressures involved.

Your post really rubs me wrong...it's fine to disagree, but calling someone you've never dealt with a quack on line (over something that seems like a very reasonable opinion) is pushing it. It makes me far more likely to discard your opinion as iconoclast.

Anyway...on a whim test drove a Kia Soul as well...very different than the Civic, apples and oranges, but I liked it very much. EXTREMELY comfortable. No where near as fun to drive, but I'm not sure how relevant that is in traffic. Hard not to like the warranty as well.

[shovelhd]

Actually he's done a damn good job at fair pricing over the years; I like him very much. I don't know much about cars, but even a one hour search on line made it pretty apparent that there have been numerous problems with turbos of various manufacturers...and it's pretty easy to see that they're more complicated and there are greater pressures involved.

An hour online searching for problems with any type of vehicle is going to find numerous issues. You'll rarely see the positives, so you have no reference for how many had no problems.

VWAG has been making turbo powered gassers for quite a while. Turbo failures haven't been remarkably high on these vehicles. The thing that kills turbos is dirty oil. Keep it clean, and they'll last a very long time. That said, Honda hasn't offered turbos recently, have they? If so, I'd be a lot more concerned about first year issues than any issue in particular.

[Vientomas]

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/12/are-turbocharged-engines-reliable-.html

[p nut]

... That said, Honda hasn't offered turbos recently, have they? If so, I'd be a lot more concerned about first year issues than any issue in particular.

Not in the US, but they've been delivering turbo/FI engines for at least the last 8 years, outside of US.

[carpediemracing]

Drove the wife's car ('17 Civic EX T) today to get summer tires/wheels put on. I think it's the third time I drove it. It's 174 hp but compared to my car (boosted 2002 Sentra, realistically 270-280 hp at the wheels, probably a few hundred pounds lighter) it seemed pretty lethargic. Even the 205 hp spec on the Si would probably not feel super peppy.

On the other hand I thought I was going to hit the steering wheel when I put the brakes on at the bottom of our 22-ish % grade driveway (to get a grade I measured 7" drop in 32" using a couple straight edge levels). So the Sentra could probably use better or at least more responsive brakes.

Raining so not sure of the grip/etc but I spec'ed out a +1 (18" vs 17" rim) and then a +0 to get more width (245/40 vs 215/45, for an 18" rim). So 30mm more tread width, identical rolling circumference. It was quiet, smooth, and the few times I pushed a bit it seemed pretty good. I'm curious how it'll be in the dry.

A picture link that will expire:
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/17990835_10155280083998824_2311217287193173329_n.j pg?oh=24d9130cc456ded99060f658188bbc9f&oe=59833E9F

[carpediemracing]

I really like the 2005-2011 Civics, the 8th gen (I also like the 92-95 Civics). My brother has an Si with maybe 185k on it, he's approaching or hit 190k. Thing handles incredibly well, nice shifter, feels very nimble, and 4 doors in my favorite blue color. I really like his car.

I know someone with a 2007 Si with 30,032 miles on it (last week, when she brought it in for emissions). 4 door, blue, pristine, 80 year old woman whose husband doesn't fit in it and doesn't drive a stick so it's garaged all the time. I can't justify buying the car (although if one of you wants to let me know). I'd buy it in a heartbeat if I could store it or if I didn't have my Sentra.

Honda has been selling a turbo through Acura (SUV, I think the CRV sister car) from 2007. However from what I've read it got pretty poor mileage. I don't know anything more than that.

Our Civic (1.5 turbo) gets in the mid-upper 30 mpg range for a tank. The car has just 1240 miles on it so not many tanks, but so far that's what we've gotten. When I got out of the car it had 250 miles range left and 38.2 mpg for the tank (I assume it's for the tank because I was on the gas quite a bit and started with 38.5 mpg).

Regarding turbos and the techs I work with... Some have turbos, most do not. Might be a function of money as much as preference.

[Aaron O]

The car I most enjoyed was definitely the hatchback. I'm getting the (turbo) hatchback. It's done.

Metallic Grey Civic Hatchback EX is the winner!

I want to thank everyone who gave me such great advice on the thread. You were, as I've come to expect, extremely helpful throughout this intimidating process. Even the comment that annoyed me above helped me feel better about the turbo.

Thanks all!

Particular thanks to those who got me away from coupes and helped to understand them.

[batman1425]

Nice choice. Honda is relatively new to the turbo mass market compared to some makers, but the tech is quickly becoming common across all brands for the increased performance to fuel economy ratio. While early turbo platforms from many makers suffered poor reliability, the modern examples IME are just as reliable as their normally aspirated counterparts.

Heck - my car as stock pushes over 17lbs of boost in a 2L 4cyl. Nearly 150hp/L and gets 30mph at 70mph. It can even reliably tolerate +4-5psi with aftermarket software on the stock hardware. Todays engines are far more well thought out and purpose designed with for turbo applications - vs. the more "bolt on" approach to a standard NA plant that early turbos were. Signs point to you having a good experience with this car.

Enjoy!

[Aaron O]

Here was my rough, unscientific, order of preferences after the extensive research and test driving...

Civic Hatchback
Kia Soul
Civic Sedan
Subaru Imprezza
Ford Focus Hatchback
Mazda 3
Kia Forte
Hyundai Elantra
Honda Fit
Chevy Cruz
Toyota Corolla IM

[likebikes]

followup report now that you've owned it for 7+ months?

[carpediemracing]

I'll pipe up. We have about 6000 miles on the car. I've driven it with summer tires (S-04, 245/40-18) and winter tires (Blizzak WS80, 215/55-17?).

Car handles really well, steering is a bit quicker than I'm used to, but that makes throwing the car into a turn really fun. I save it for when I'm alone as Junior complains about cornering too fast. With the S-04s it turns in incredibly quick, with the Blizzaks it's a bit lethargic. To me this is the strongest point of the car. It handles similarly to my coilover Sentra in turns.

On ripply wavy bumps it's actually pretty comfortable. The magic of good shock design. The same bumps (I drive over them every day getting to/from work) are undriveable at the same speeds in my Sentra, it shakes my head so much my vision blurs. In the Sentra I have to go about 5-8 mph in first gear, the 2017 Civic it's whatever I can do crossing the intersection, 5-10-15-20 mph.

Regularly get 36 mpg local driving, 39 mpg on the highway (70-75 mph typical speed).

Some engine noise on the highway. Locally virtually none.

I never got to redline for many months, and only hit it maybe 3 times? The engine definitely runs out of breath a bit, but I'm comparing it to a torque monster (TDIs, 230+ lbs torque), a boosted Sentra with a massive turbo (at least 100 hp over the Civic, breaks tires loose in 3rd gear, not sure of torque but in the high 200s), and the endless/steady push Expedition (300 lbs). Never really feels underpowered in steady state stuff like the interstate, even on long hills.

Rear seat is big enough for me. I usually sit there with Junior (he sits in the center). Headroom is close but good, and I sit tall for my height so that's a good test for height. Legs I have short legs so of course it's okay for me.

[Aaron O]

Well I DON'T have the driving experience to write something like THAT.

Mileage - almost all city, with lights and slow traffic. I get about 27mpg...better w/o the AC/heater. I don't drive it highway enough to be sure, but I'd guess 36ish. Guy above must be better at using his pedal. I use the Econ setting.

He's right about the shocks...AMAZINGLY smooth. Really a revalation. Love it. The cornering is FUN! It's a very enjoyable car to drive. It's had some rattle noises...not engine/mechanical...but nothing major. Something must not be tight enough. Love the display and the speakers on the ex are damned good. Very comfy.

I'm very pleased ith the choice, but I'm not knowledgable at all either...so beware!