Cyclingtips DRL Article

[earlfoss]

This article on Cyclingtips got me wondering how many people are actually using daylight running lights on their bike.

Around the Madison, WI area I rarely see this. IMO it's pretty fredly.

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/02/see-seen-every-cyclist-needs-know-daytime-running-lights/

[rePhil]

I was hit in daylight while using a flashing taillight. I replaced that light with a brighter one, a Bontrager Flare R. I have had several people pull up next to me at traffic lights telling me that they saw me from a good distance.
So for me, I'm riding with it.

[commonguy001]

I'm a sometimes not all that often user. I run lights on my commuter as my morning ride in is in the dark half the year. There are many days where I fire up the rear flasher for the ride home. My tail light is a 150 lumen Niterider and it's retina scorching, it's also pretty big and doesn't look great on any bike.

I need to look at a more compact flasher that will pulse at 100 lumen if I really decided to go all in for a rear flasher on every ride.

[sandyrs]

I'm a sometimes not all that often user. I run lights on my commuter as my morning ride in is in the dark half the year. There are many days where I fire up the rear flasher for the ride home. My tail light is a 150 lumen Niterider and it's retina scorching, it's also pretty big and doesn't look great on any bike.

I need to look at a more compact flasher that will pulse at 100 lumen if I really decided to go all in for a rear flasher on every ride.

Check out the Lupine Rotlicht. It's an amazingly powerful light and compact/easy to move between bikes. I use mine for commuting too, in a similar situation to yours where at least some of the ride is in the dark and the rest is sunset/sunrise much of the year. I should use it for all my rides though. It certainly has enough battery life.

[cdn_bacon]

I use em.

specifically CYGO-LITE HOTSHOT PRO 150 at the back. can't hurt to have it on at all times. Its USB rechargable, every little bit counts. Front not so much, most drivers aren't aware in their mirrors anyway.

[commonguy001]

Check out the Lupine Rotlicht. It's an amazingly powerful light and compact/easy to move between bikes. I use mine for commuting too, in a similar situation to yours where at least some of the ride is in the dark and the rest is sunset/sunrise much of the year. I should use it for all my rides though. It certainly has enough battery life.

Thanks for the tip!
That looks like a winner, bright and not huge, I'll see if I can find one locally before I buy direct.

[benb]

I'm a bit cynical about this. In some ways it feels like a sales driven push. I keep getting Trek catalogs in the mail trying to sell me more and more lights and neon clothes. A lot of these bike lights are pretty pathetic in terms of power for daylight use.

Motorcycles get hit all the time just like us, and they are lit up like Christmas trees, much bigger and easier to see, loud, and often get modified to have blinking brake lights and such.

I used to run my Honda with the high beams on all the time during the day, people still didn't see me. I don't know exactly what it would have been rated but my guess is it was pushing 3500-4000 lumens. I had a VFR that had 4 discrete bulbs and it ran them all when the high beams were on, it was very bright as it was just about the same setup in terms of bulbs as my car(s) that I've owned. But none of the cars would let you light all 4 bulbs at the same time.

Now Trek comes along and is trying to tell me that a Flare R with 65 lumens is going to be good enough.

Personally just like when riding that motorcycle I am way more concerned about what is in front of me, we get scared of getting hit from behind but those accidents are not very common. They are horrible when they happen and they always make the news but the right hook and the oncoming left turn are way more common and what we should be afraid of.

My only bike/car accident I would have needed a very bright light pointing to the side to make any difference. And it probably wouldn't have done anything, the driver was partially blinded by oncoming sun. (He pulled out and broadsided me) That oncoming sun is apparently something like 100k lumens so he'd never have seen any of these dinky bike lights.

I'm not really opposed to using them but most of the bike lights are also a PITA to use, not very high quality, very expensive for what you get, etc..

[Lovetoclimb]

Been using them on all rides for almost a year now and incidents have seemingly gone down, i.e. less buzzing, drivers who pass clearly using phones, etc. I think it says to drivers I'm making even more effort to be seen and hopefully catching the attention of drivers who otherwise may not see me. Then again if a 6'3" person on a hi viz yellow bike with white helmet and shoes isn't visible already one has to question the sanity of my recreational pursuit...

Ultimately if I do get hit and survive, the stronger my court case the better IMO.

[drewellison]

Here's another DRL option: Orfos FlarePro.

https://www.orfos.us/pages/flarepro

I use the original Flare model with the built in battery and magnetic mounts. I love 'em. The FlarePro is their new model where you supply your own battery pack. The light itself is super light and easy to mount just about anywhere. They can even be stacked. The runtime is based upon the size of the battery pack you use. It's a pretty trick system. Battery runs out? Just unplug and plug in a charged one.

They exhibited last year at the Seattle Bike Show where I bought mine. If they're there this year, I'll get the FlarePro versions too. You can't be too bright out there IMHO.

Drew

[bobswire]

I'm a bit cynical about this. In some ways it feels like a sales driven push. I keep getting Trek catalogs in the mail trying to sell me more and more lights and neon clothes. A lot of these bike lights are pretty pathetic in terms of power for daylight use.

Motorcycles get hit all the time just like us, and they are lit up like Christmas trees, much bigger and easier to see, loud, and often get modified to have blinking brake lights and such.

I used to run my Honda with the high beams on all the time during the day, people still didn't see me. I don't know exactly what it would have been rated but my guess is it was pushing 3500-4000 lumens. I had a VFR that had 4 discrete bulbs and it ran them all when the high beams were on, it was very bright as it was just about the same setup in terms of bulbs as my car(s) that I've owned. But none of the cars would let you light all 4 bulbs at the same time.

Now Trek comes along and is trying to tell me that a Flare R with 65 lumens is going to be good enough.

Personally just like when riding that motorcycle I am way more concerned about what is in front of me, we get scared of getting hit from behind but those accidents are not very common. They are horrible when they happen and they always make the news but the right hook and the oncoming left turn are way more common and what we should be afraid of.

My only bike/car accident I would have needed a very bright light pointing to the side to make any difference. And it probably wouldn't have done anything, the driver was partially blinded by oncoming sun. (He pulled out and broadsided me) That oncoming sun is apparently something like 100k lumens so he'd never have seen any of these dinky bike lights.

I kind of agree, I think most accidents involving bicycles are by distracted drivers who swerve into a lane not paying attention while on their phone or radio,dropping something,making a quick right turn, etc. Even most if not all states have laws against using you cell while driving yet everyday I see drivers on their phones at a stop light reading or sending a message and don't notice the light turned green until someone honks at them. BTW I do have and use lights when needed but I don't think of it as making me bullet proof.

[Bwana]

I use a Garmin Varia rear radar/light, so I always have a rear light.
I have a Light & Motion 800 for twilight duty but it's a little big for daytime use. I need to get a tiny flasher for the front, the main road I ride on is 55mph with quite a few side roads with no stop lights so I should probably have one...

[drewellison]

Yes, this is a good topic to be cynical about. Because on 999 out of 1,000 rides, DRLs won't make a bit of difference. It's that thousandth ride where I want it, so I use lights on just about every ride. I don't know when the thousandth ride will happen.

The same can be said for helmets, seatbelts, GFCI plugs, earthquake straps for your water heaters, etc. We're surrounded by laws and regulations "for our own protection" and we go along, maybe for our own protection. I'm just glad we use lights voluntarily, without the government mandating it.

Besides, it's a good reason to get more cool gear. :banana:

"Honey, I need to get this new light set, so you can be assured I'll get home safe and sound from my commute." Maybe peace of mind for our loved ones is a very good reason.

[Formulasaab]

Because I am a working stiff, my most common ride times, by FAR, are the hours between 4:30 and 7:30 PM. In other words, I usually ride when the sun is low on the horizon.

Because I have plenty of time to think when I am on the bike, I am hyper-aware of when I am in a driver's "blind spot" as created by the sun.

Apart from that awareness, my best risk-mitigating tactic is running a bright taillight and headlight. That isn't fredly, its just being smart.

[Bwana]

Here's another DRL option: Orfos FlarePro.

https://www.orfos.us/pages/flarepro

I use the original Flare model with the built in battery and magnetic mounts. I love 'em. The FlarePro is their new model where you supply your own battery pack. The light itself is super light and easy to mount just about anywhere. They can even be stacked. The runtime is based upon the size of the battery pack you use. It's a pretty trick system. Battery runs out? Just unplug and plug in a charged one.

They exhibited last year at the Seattle Bike Show where I bought mine. If they're there this year, I'll get the FlarePro versions too. You can't be too bright out there IMHO.

Drew

Wow, that looks awesome. Trying to brainstorm running USB cables to front & back to run both off one battery...

[ColnagoFan]

I don't know, but I suspect that if I'd had a front running light I might not have had the issue with the inattentive driver back in December. I always use a rear flasher, but when I (eventually) get back on two wheels, I'm not leaving the house without a front light as well.

Better be safe than sorry I feel...

I think Knog has some pretty neat front flashers that are unobtrusive and still decently bright. But I have time to do research.

[chiasticon]

Even most if not all states have laws against using you cell while driving yet everyday I see drivers on their phones at a stop light reading or sending a message and don't notice the light turned green until someone honks at them.using your phone at a red light isn't using it while driving and is perfectly legal. I do this, in fact. yeah, you should keep your eye on the light too to not be a jerk to others. but there's nothing wrong with looking at your phone to change the song or check a message or something while the vehicle is immobile.

[MattTuck]

using your phone at a red light isn't using it while driving and is perfectly legal. I do this, in fact. yeah, you should keep your eye on the light too to not be a jerk to others. but there's nothing wrong with looking at your phone to change the song or check a message or something while the vehicle is immobile.

I'd check your local laws on this. I believe most states consider you to be driving the car if you are in the driver's seat, regardless if the car is moving, at a stop light, or parked on the side of the road.

[Bwana]

using your phone at a red light isn't using it while driving and is perfectly legal. I do this, in fact. yeah, you should keep your eye on the light too to not be a jerk to others. but there's nothing wrong with looking at your phone to change the song or check a message or something while the vehicle is immobile.

Tell that to the cop I got a ticket from while using my phone to find a restaurant for lunch while sitting at a red light.

(in San Antonio)

[Formulasaab]

I'd check your local laws on this. I believe most states consider you to be driving the car if you are in the driver's seat, regardless if the car is moving, at a stop light, or parked on the side of the road.

Agreed. Good luck picking that nit with a judge.

If you are on the road, you are driving. Period.

[drewellison]

Wow, that looks awesome. Trying to brainstorm running USB cables to front & back to run both off one battery...

That's a good idea. I will ask them when I see them at the Seattle Bike Show about that. The couple of times I've contacted them for customer service, they are very responsive and helpful. There was one time I lost my light (due to my negligence) and the guy made sure I got a replacement for a very fair price.

[chiasticon]

I'd check your local laws on this. I believe most states consider you to be driving the car if you are in the driver's seat, regardless if the car is moving, at a stop light, or parked on the side of the road.ah, looks like I was incorrect on this one! you can text while stopped but you must be outside the lane of travel. in Ohio, at least.

Tell that to the cop I got a ticket from while using my phone to find a restaurant for lunch while sitting at a red light.

(in San Antonio)this, however, seems to be legal here; if I'm interpreting the law correctly.

[Formulasaab]

ah, looks like I was incorrect on this one! you can text while stopped but you must be outside the lane of travel. in Ohio, at least.


That makes sense to me. The "breakdown lane" is a different zone, logically.

[Black Dog]

I'd check your local laws on this. I believe most states consider you to be driving the car if you are in the driver's seat, regardless if the car is moving, at a stop light, or parked on the side of the road.

This is the case in Canada. Operating a motor vehicle includes being stoped at a light or stopped in traffic. If you are on the road your are operating the vehicle and as such prohibited from using a device. The side of the road is the exception in Canada, as long as you are fully off the road on a shoulder where stopping is allowed.

[jruhlen1980]

I'm a bit cynical about this. In some ways it feels like a sales driven push.

I don't have a strong opinion one way or another, but I really doubt this is a conspiracy by Big Bicycle Light.

[doomridesout]

A sales push isn't necessarily some "conspiracy"-- Trek specifically has shelled out big for advertising this as a new segment for their lights.

Does that mean it's just some cynical cash grab? Maybe the interests of the manufacturers and the riders really do line up here. I notice a little more space from drivers when I run my Light and Motion Vis 180 on full blast during the day.

[benb]

Yah it doesn't have to be a conspiracy. But they have strong incentives to find new things to sell and sell as many as they can. Companies just work that way. If you're not getting the Trek catalogs you can be forgiven. It's like a 100 page color glossy magazine that's framed like a Public Service announcement trying to get you to throw out all your bike clothes and buy a whole new wardrobe of neon yellow for the daytime and white for night time and then buy all their new lights. You probably need one set for daytime and one set for night time too!

I run my lights any rides I do around early morning or anytime where I could even get stuck out near sunset/dusk/darkness if I got a flat or something and got delayed. I also always run the lights for commuting. If it's during the day I use my 600 lumen Niterider model on the bars on flash, that's the brightest light I have, and i use a red flasher on the back.

I just don't really feel like I'm getting any extra space/attention/care from the drivers.

I mentioned the motorcycle, I was actually wrong, my motorcycle was actually 6000 lumens. And I'd still have the cars make the oncoming moves as if I was invisible.

While none of it hurts I'm just somewhat skeptical that there has been any real research that would hold up that says DRLs really help us.

Ironically the only thing that I can really tell that does actually get drivers attention and gets me some extra space is towing a trailer. It's like a bike + trailer is actually weird enough looking that it gets their attention.

[ptourkin]

I'm a bit cynical about this. In some ways it feels like a sales driven push. I keep getting Trek catalogs in the mail trying to sell me more and more lights and neon clothes. A lot of these bike lights are pretty pathetic in terms of power for daylight use.

Motorcycles get hit all the time just like us, and they are lit up like Christmas trees, much bigger and easier to see, loud, and often get modified to have blinking brake lights and such.

I used to run my Honda with the high beams on all the time during the day, people still didn't see me. I don't know exactly what it would have been rated but my guess is it was pushing 3500-4000 lumens. I had a VFR that had 4 discrete bulbs and it ran them all when the high beams were on, it was very bright as it was just about the same setup in terms of bulbs as my car(s) that I've owned. But none of the cars would let you light all 4 bulbs at the same time.

Now Trek comes along and is trying to tell me that a Flare R with 65 lumens is going to be good enough.

Personally just like when riding that motorcycle I am way more concerned about what is in front of me, we get scared of getting hit from behind but those accidents are not very common. They are horrible when they happen and they always make the news but the right hook and the oncoming left turn are way more common and what we should be afraid of.

My only bike/car accident I would have needed a very bright light pointing to the side to make any difference. And it probably wouldn't have done anything, the driver was partially blinded by oncoming sun. (He pulled out and broadsided me) That oncoming sun is apparently something like 100k lumens so he'd never have seen any of these dinky bike lights.

I'm not really opposed to using them but most of the bike lights are also a PITA to use, not very high quality, very expensive for what you get, etc..

A lot of generalizations here. Take a look at the Flare R in person. It's very effective in daylight and not a "PITA to use," whatever that means.

Also, there are still "catalogs?" I had no idea.

[benb]

Take a look at the Flare R in person. It's very effective in daylight and not a "PITA to use," whatever that means.

Also, there are still "catalogs?" I had no idea.

By what standard is effective judged? I'm sure you can see it, you can see my tail light from a long way off too. Does it actually decrease your chance of getting hit from behind in a measurable and important way?

Getting hit from behind is already rare relative to other types of accidents. We're way more likely to get hit from the front by a motor vehicle, and we're way more likely to crash on our own or get taken out by another cyclist if we ride with others then we are to get hit by any type of motor vehicle.

By PITA to use I mean they have to be tended to in a way that car or moto batteries do not. The only lighting for a bike that I would not say is a PITA is a setup that is driven by dynamos that you don't have to worry about charging. Tailights are admittedly not bad as they last a long time but then again it's cause they aren't very bright. And then of course the Flare does need to be recharged more often.

Regarding Trek catalogs, you seem to get on their list if you've bought a Trek, and yes, they send out big expensive full color catalogs printed on high quality thick paper.

[cpamplin]

I always use lights when I am commuting, even during the day, but not always when I'm training or on weekend rides. The city streets are a free for all.

[Black Dog]

Always use one day and night. Many drivers have pulled up to me during the day and said that the light was very visible from afar and they appreciate the visibility.

The idea is that distracted drivers look up from time to time and when they do you want to catch their attention while they are still for enough from you to focus on driving past you and not over you. The brighter the light the longer the effective range and the better the chance you will catch their attention before it is too late.

[rando]

using your phone at a red light isn't using it while driving and is perfectly legal. I do this, in fact. yeah, you should keep your eye on the light too to not be a jerk to others. but there's nothing wrong with looking at your phone to change the song or check a message or something while the vehicle is immobile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9N1iw5Vdim8

[CSKeller]

I run lights every time I ride alone or with 1 or 2 others. Most of my riding lately has been commuting 21 miles one way. My commute involves early morning (before sunrise) and late evening rides (after sunset in the winter months).

I have been using http://store.designshinelighting.com/product-p/ds1300v4.htm and http://store.designshinelighting.com/product-p/ds1300v4.htm for almost a year and a half. I do notice more cars pass me with extra clearance and give me more room. These lights are bright, even on Level 3 (they have 5 levels) which is what I run them on most of the time.

They still don't protect you from stupid people, or bike-hating drivers that think you should not be on the road. Last Friday, I was almost hit from behind by a motorcyclist who decided he couldn't wait 2 seconds and swerved into a merge lane (where I was riding) to pass cars on the right. I saw him in my rear-view mirror and swerved to the right to get out of the way and he passed me on my right missing me by less than a foot. Lights don't help fix stupid!! I really don;t know what will but I do find DRL helpful most of the time...YMMV.

[one60]

No issue with folks staying safe but since the majority of headlights & taillights are a single point source rather than a dispersing lens, their use on trails represents a distraction if not a safety issue for other riders.

I don't care to be blinded by an oncoming cyclist who needs 1000 flashing lumens to ride in daylight. Same for folks running a flashing rear light. A few minutes behind a HotShot leaves me seeing double. I get its hard to turn off tail lights but its not too difficult to point handlebar mounted lights downwards or turn them off out of courtesy to others. (rant over)