Cycling Has Become Professional Wrestling Atmo

[atmo]

read the story here (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/tsc.html?URI=http://select.nytimes.com/2006/08/06/sports/othersports/06vecsey.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26refQ3Dsports&OP=41303a74Q2FyQ7B9OyD68TTDyQ20PPQ24yPHyPQ24y6Q2BT 8D6yTDe986Q2BT8D6yPQ24q9Q60692seD_!) atmo. you'll have to either buy the ny times
today, or subscribe online. i'm not going to cut and paste the article.

i still believe floyd wrt this particular test, and yet i have no reason
to veer from my long belief that there is routine dope/pharmaceutical
use in the pro peloton.

with his year's tdf story looming so large in the press, i am bothered
that so many feel that their sport, this sport, is now tainted - or has
undergone some sort of change.

it is what it is and always has been. it reflects life and its audience.
there are 250-350 pros worldwide and, all of the sudden, the media
makes cycling its whipping boy. as if there are not journalists that
haven't embellished or fabricated. as if all reporting on cbs has been
without flaw.

why are all the selena roberts and george vecseys of the world
suddenly making this cycling thing a story that goes above the fold?
is it to sell newspapers atmo?

[ergott]

It's a scandal regarding an American. That sells like hotcakes.

[Big Dan]

You have to admit that Phil and Paul Sherwen sound like WWE announcers yo...

:cool:

[Avispa]

I'm just going to quote this sentence from the article:
"You know the old saying: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I’m in the shame-on-me stage of recrimination."

The problem is that after all is said and done, Floyd is still fried. BTW, do you also believe Hamilton? If so/not, why?

[atmo]

I'm just going to quote this sentence from the article:
"You know the old saying: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I’m in the shame-on-me stage of recrimination."

The problem is that after all is said and done, Floyd is still fried. BTW, do you also believe Hamilton? If so/not, why?
i'm not sure i ever believed hamilton because
the circumstances and how they all unraveled
are so different compared to landis' case.

otoh - i like him as a friend, and all that.
he did a couple of stages races on our team circa
1993. he's a good guy. i'd hang with him.

[swoop]

i was pulled over on PCH yesterday by a channel 7 Eyewitness News van. They wanted to interview "bikers" about Floyd. I said, 'we're cyclists, not bikers, honey'... and rode away while my some other dudes talked to them.

circus time. it's not like they give a damn about motorists that try and sometimes succeed in killing you.

[Steelman]

why are all the selena roberts and george vecseys of the world
suddenly making this cycling thing a story that goes above the fold?
is it to sell newspapers atmo?

Why? Because the first fraudster in the modern era to loose the TDF title is an otherwise seemingly honest American from a humble background. In other words great entertainment.

Much more entertaining than reading about failed Middle Eastern policies, an incompetent President, and Lebanese being massacred. Besides, that stuff don't matter much in the USA. Its the price at the pump that counts, unless something happens to blow up in your own backyard.

[wasfast]

i still believe floyd wrt this particular test, and yet i have no reason
to veer from my long belief that there is routine dope/pharmaceutical
use in the pro peloton.

Perhaps to discourage cheating in the "clean" categories, it's time for the "unlimiteds". No holds barred, use anything you want to. Sorta the top fuel category as in drag racing. At least then, you know the story with the riders.

[shinomaster]

http://over-slept.com/lj/3pics/ovedio3.jpg

This mask would match the Phonak jersey ATMO.

[keno]

have long since left the news business; the media are in the entertainment and advocacy arenas. If there is anything sacrosanct to them it is the bottom line.

keno

[atmo]

have long since left the news business; the media are in the entertainment and advocacy arenas. If there is anything sacrosanct to them it is the bottom line.

keno

no different than pro sports; put fans in
the seats. sell the nikes. win at all costs.

are we ever gonna get to that howard beale
moment atmo? i'm convinced i watch all this as
much to see a trainwreck as to see a sports event.

[Big Dan]

Instant replay............

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=1915374

:confused:

[keno]

As to Howard Beale, and George Vecsey who said that he takes all of this personally (if he learned his wife was cheating on him, that would be personal, perhaps), which is comical to me, they can get as mad as they like, but until they write the checks they're pounding sand.

Not that the parallel is specifically on point, but the image of journalism in the eyes of the public shares a certain notoriety with professional cycling. With the fox in the hen house, well, what a revoltin' development this is.

(I'm reminded of that old joke - I was watching a fistfight and a hockey game broke out.)

I notice that I've rambled. Perhaps because today was the first time on the roads since the hospital stay. It's good to be back, even part way.

keno

[wanderingwheel]

Nah, it's not wrestling. I see it more like NASCAR. There are rules that everyone agrees to in order to promote a level playing field, but then it is the job of the crew chief / team doctor to find every possible way around the rules. Wasn't the crew chief for a big name driver caught cheating recently to which he responded "yep, I cheated, and I'd do it again"? Did he get anything more than a slap on the wrist?

One more random thought. Is it possible that Phonak has had all thier doping scandals because the team management is actually the cleanest in the peloton? Maybe they don't provide the same "medical" care that the other teams do so the racers go outside the team to second-tier doctors and get caught. Just some lazy Sunday musings.

[Too Tall]

I feel yah Swoop. Because I'm the "nut case" who rides his bike to work 40 miles each day I'm the answer man on the elevator...in the lobby and during meetings. It is really dumb however it dignifies an honest answer and it goes something like this "I admire and respect these men and women. They are professionals and some are the finest athletes I can imagine. Many are my heros. Do you think there is cheating in NASCAR? (the answer is always yes) so? Than if you found out that Jimmy Johnson was using an illegial carburator to win races would you feel outrage or something else?" If the listener even know sheite about NASCAR they generally get my meaning and back off. Cheatin' is different when the venue involves folks you know, nes pas?

It kinda goes like that.

[atmo]

I feel yah Swoop<cut>



i feel ya Too Tall -
i think this is what's bothering me most about
the story - nothing is new under the sun wrt
to cycling, the sport, or what goes on in the
peloton. now these cats have a story to milk,
and all of the sudden, the media descends...

it's illogical and it's effed, but my insides are
okay with it (cycling) being what it is - i love
it, i'm a fan - but it gets under my skin seeing
the mainstream press co-opting it for its cause
célèbre atmo.

[Serpico]

...

today was the first time on the roads since the hospital stay. It's good to be back, even part way

...
Hello Keno, good to hear the recovery is going well.


...

mainstream press co-opting it for its cause célèbre atmo.
I loved Floyd's comment during Larry King, something like (paraphrase) "Well no one paid attention until the sample was reported--which apparently is a bigger story than winning the tour."

these vultures didn't descend until it was obvious that a slow-motion trainwreck was in progress
.
.

[Birddog]

When I'm asked about it (cheating) I always use the motorsports analogy, not so much in regards to the cheating, but more to help people understand that cycle racing is really the only sport where a vehicle is propelled by a human (save rowing, but they don't row around France, Italy or Spain). In motorsports, the crew does everything possible within (and sometimes outside) the rules to make their machines lighter, more aerodynamic, etc, and they also tune their engines, adjust aspiration and exhaust to maximize engine performance. Why is it so odd that teams would do the same in cycle racing. I'm not saying I condone it, I'm not there yet, but I fully understand the desire and the challenge within the framework of the rules.

Actually, I'm sort of leaning toward letting the human motor do anything they want in terms of recovery, I don't know how they'd monitor it, but I'm leaning that way. I draw a line in the shifting sand when it comes to PED's, ie ones that work only to give you a boost during the actual race like EPO. I know that is a vague description of my position, but that's the way I'm presently leaning. In motorsports they change the entire engine so why not at least do everything possible to rebuild the human engine before each heat? Just a thought.

In regards to WADA and the like, I have the utmost distrust. These dictators and bureaucrats are as bad on the enforcement side as the cheaters are on the performance side. The history of drug testing in the workplace and in sports is littered with all sorts of flim flam statistics that have at least in the past left the door wide open for false positives while the controlling agencies are always claiming a near infallible record. The fact that Dikc Pound is the chief bogeyman doesn't exactly help IMO*

Birddog

* Old fashioned way of saying atmo

[bfd]

I'm just going to quote this sentence from the article:
"You know the old saying: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I’m in the shame-on-me stage of recrimination."

The problem is that after all is said and done, Floyd is still fried. BTW, do you also believe Hamilton? If so/not, why?

I like the President's version:

"There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, fool me once, shame on—shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again."—Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

[BumbleBeeDave]

have long since left the news business; the media are in the entertainment and advocacy arenas. If there is anything sacrosanct to them it is the bottom line.

keno

On a national basis I would agree with you, but on a smaller, local basis many newspapers--like the one I work for--are far from trying to be entertainment in the sense I believe you mean it. People want local news from us and other smaller and mid-size papers like ours. Our local readers also know enough about local politics and personalities that it's very difficult to slide anything by them. You'd be surprised at some of the seemingly miniscule points they call us on.

But as for Fox(Faux) News, CNN, MSNBC, and the big networks and papers--USA Today, The NYTimes--then yes I agree with you. They want to sell papers and this story gives them something "new" to sling mud at.

BBD

[atmo]

boldface and font size edit added -

These dictators and bureaucrats are as bad on the enforcement side as the cheaters are on the performance side.




potm atmo.