PSA: Rodeo Labs Flaanimal release

[RobJ]

I've been following them since reading about their Spork a while back. Flaanimal definitely looks interesting and they are opening up the crowdsourcing today for orders. Steel and Ti versions.

http://www.rodeo-labs.com/flaanimal3

[dustyrider]

The 3.0 black/copper bike is dreamy...except for the 27.2 seatpost(no good droppers), and not sure I like the idea of paying for beta testing. I'm sure at the price point others will see the made in Taiwan as a turn off even if it is Ti.

I'll have to keep an eye out once they've made it into the wild. Thanks for posting.

[Mzilliox]

interesting bikes for sure. digging the copper and black version.

[ptourkin]

The 3.0 black/copper bike is dreamy...except for the 27.2 seatpost(no good droppers), and not sure I like the idea of paying for beta testing. I'm sure at the price point others will see the made in Taiwan as a turn off even if it is Ti.

I'll have to keep an eye out once they've made it into the wild. Thanks for posting.

They did a dropper on the Trail Donkey. I'm building mine up now. I wouldn't call this a beta. It's more a 3.0 like they call it. This is just a tweak.

[dustyrider]

They did a dropper on the Trail Donkey. I'm building mine up now. I wouldn't call this a beta. It's more a 3.0 like they call it. This is just a tweak.

Which dropper did they use for 27.2 on the trail-donkey?

Interesting nothing on the webpage indicates they've sold these prior to the crowd source funding. Though I didn't read every part...it struck me that they seemed to be launching a line with plenty of prototyping, but no real world sales until crowd funding was sourced. Still not seeing where any 3.0's are actually being ridden by consumers.

Edit: Conflicting ideas are presented in these lines from their website:

We will never dictate how people build their bikes, but...

Flaanimal 3.0 Changed the seat tube from 31.6 to 27.2 in order to make the feel more compliant and shave a little bit of weight off. Originally we went 31.6 for the sake of dropper compatibility, but we think we should leave that feature for the Traildonkey and let the Flaanimal be its own thing.

You also need to read the description carefully to note they won't be shipped with the pictured tapered headtubes.

hmm....sounds like a lot of marketing to me.

[benb]

The prices seem kind of out of whack for what you're getting and where it's built. It seems well thought out in some ways but in others (geometry) it seems more like a cheap bike. (e.x. same length chain stays on every size, appears to have the same rake on the fork in each size, wheelbase is the same on the largest 3 sizes, same BB drop in all sizes, etc..) Geo seems like it will work for some people for some uses but not as versatile as they're marketing it as.

Basically seems like more of a Surly/All City level frame but at 3X the price, and they're not mentioning if the steel frames have anything like an ED coating to preserve them. They seem like they should at that price for the usage they're being marketed for.

[sandyrs]

These frames seem incredibly well thought out. The sheer number of features focused on adaptability to different drivetrains without extraneous brazeons is really impressive. I'm 6'5" so the geometry of smaller frame sizes is a mystery to me but the geo for the biggest size looks spot-on. The wheelbase being the same across the three biggest sizes looks intentional. I'm pretty sure the priority was shoe/tire clearance, followed by maintaining a short wheelbase, so I actually find the geometry to be consistent and sensible. Certainly, far larger companies than Rodeo (they want to sell forty frames. FORTY!) are guilty of saving money by using the same fork rake, chainstays, etc. across sizes. I can't blame them for that minor "transgression" (I don't even see it as such) when economies of scale are working so deeply against this project in the first place.


Interesting nothing on the webpage indicates they've sold these prior to the crowd source funding. Though I didn't read every part...it struck me that they seemed to be launching a line with plenty of prototyping, but no real world sales until crowd funding was sourced. Still not seeing where any 3.0's are actually being ridden by consumers.

The whole point of crowdfunding is to raise the funds necessary to produce the good being crowdfunded and bring it to market. If they had sold these frames to consumers already, that would mean they'd already gotten funding from somewhere to bring the frames to market, and the crowdfunding would be pointless.

[benb]

I'm 6'5" so the geometry of smaller frame sizes is a mystery to me but the geo for the biggest size looks spot-on. The wheelbase being the same across the three biggest sizes looks intentional. I'm pretty sure the priority was shoe/tire clearance, followed by maintaining a short wheelbase, so I actually find the geometry to be consistent and sensible. Certainly, far larger companies than Rodeo (they want to sell forty frames. FORTY!) are guilty of saving money by using the same fork rake, chainstays, etc. across sizes. I can't blame them for that minor "transgression" (I don't even see it as such) when economies of scale are working so deeply against this project in the first place.


I'd have plenty of toe overlap on these frames (I'm 6'1"), particularly with the big tires, I bet you will too unless you have really small feet for someone with your size. (That said I don't get fear of toe overlap.)

I can pretty much tell from the combination of wheelbase + chain stay that this has similar or less clearance than my All City, which has toe overlap with a smaller tire than they are talking about. If I put panniers on a Flaanimal I'd have to be super careful to not have heel clearance issues too AFAICT as those chain stays are pretty short for "bike touring" or "commuting".

The stack/reach #s don't really work for me that much either, again at least not for that price. $500 frame I don't care about a goofy stem I guess, this things going to end up being a $3000 bike and I wouldn't be swapping it between different builds so I'd want it more optimized for one build. If I built it to be "sporty" it's got a super long wheelbase for that, if I built it for commuting and or touring type uses I'm not sure I'd think it had a long enough wheelbase or chain stays. It's also got a high BB for some of the use cases.

Just seems like it's compromised for any use case so that you could swap it to be a totally different bike on a regular basis. How many people switch from flat bar to road bar to fixed to geared to 1x to loaded tourer all that often? Basically at that price I would want to test ride it in a config similar to what I'd use in the size I'd buy to make myself believe it was going to be a good bike. (It probably has near 0 support/warranty too, the company could vaporize really quick at that volume.)

The builds with Carbon wheels are even more amusing I guess. They seem totally out of place???

[sandyrs]

I'd have plenty of toe overlap on these frames (I'm 6'1"), particularly with the big tires, I bet you will too unless you have really small feet for someone with your size. (That said I don't get fear of toe overlap.)

I can pretty much tell from the combination of wheelbase + chain stay that this has similar or less clearance than my All City, which has toe overlap with a smaller tire than they are talking about. If I put panniers on a Flaanimal I'd have to be super careful to not have heel clearance issues too AFAICT as those chain stays are pretty short for "bike touring" or "commuting".

The stack/reach #s don't really work for me that much either, again at least not for that price. $500 frame I don't care about a goofy stem I guess, this things going to end up being a $3000 bike and I wouldn't be swapping it between different builds so I'd want it more optimized for one build. If I built it to be "sporty" it's got a super long wheelbase for that, if I built it for commuting and or touring type uses I'm not sure I'd think it had a long enough wheelbase or chain stays. It's also got a high BB for some of the use cases.

Just seems like it's compromised for any use case so that you could swap it to be a totally different bike on a regular basis. How many people switch from flat bar to road bar to fixed to geared to 1x to loaded tourer all that often? Basically at that price I would want to test ride it in a config similar to what I'd use in the size I'd buy to make myself believe it was going to be a good bike.

The builds with Carbon wheels are even more amusing I guess. They seem totally out of place???

With a size 47 shoe I do not have toe overlap problems on my bike with near-identical front-end geometry. Maybe you run your cleats farther back than me? That said, I agree that fear of toe overlap is way overblown. I wouldn't design a bike around it but it's clear some thought went into this geometry whether or not it's how I would approach designing a frame. Plus, I'm just going off their description, per which the goal was to minimize (not eliminate) toe interference:

We worked very hard to minimize toe interference across all Flaanimal frame sizes, maintaining at least 5mm of clearance with average shoe sizes when a 45mm tire is used.

I don't see the adaptability as a day-to-day feature, but rather one that comes into play in the long term. Most people looking at buying a Rodeo (either a Trail Donkey or a Flaanimal) are sufficiently into cycling to own multiple bikes, probably across several disciplines. To me this bike's ability to take on different builds makes sense in that context; as your "stable" changes over time, you build this bike to fill the gaps between your other bikes. In many cases all it takes is a tire change. If you're looking for one bike to do one thing well... that's where, oh, 90% of the mainstream enthusiast-level cycling market excels.

When I took a framebuilding class, I built a frame that I'm now realizing is, almost down to the millimeter, identical to the largest size Flaanimal, and is similarly-equipped with sliding dropouts, brazeons, etc. so obviously the Flaanimal speaks to me.

Talk about a February conversation among New England cyclists!

[ptourkin]

I'd have plenty of toe overlap on these frames (I'm 6'1"), particularly with the big tires, I bet you will too unless you have really small feet for someone with your size. (That said I don't get fear of toe overlap.)

I can pretty much tell from the combination of wheelbase + chain stay that this has similar or less clearance than my All City, which has toe overlap with a smaller tire than they are talking about. If I put panniers on a Flaanimal I'd have to be super careful to not have heel clearance issues too AFAICT as those chain stays are pretty short for "bike touring" or "commuting".

The stack/reach #s don't really work for me that much either, again at least not for that price. $500 frame I don't care about a goofy stem I guess, this things going to end up being a $3000 bike and I wouldn't be swapping it between different builds so I'd want it more optimized for one build. If I built it to be "sporty" it's got a super long wheelbase for that, if I built it for commuting and or touring type uses I'm not sure I'd think it had a long enough wheelbase or chain stays. It's also got a high BB for some of the use cases.

Just seems like it's compromised for any use case so that you could swap it to be a totally different bike on a regular basis. How many people switch from flat bar to road bar to fixed to geared to 1x to loaded tourer all that often? Basically at that price I would want to test ride it in a config similar to what I'd use in the size I'd buy to make myself believe it was going to be a good bike. (It probably has near 0 support/warranty too, the company could vaporize really quick at that volume.)

The builds with Carbon wheels are even more amusing I guess. They seem totally out of place???

You're obviously coming from a very different place than those of us who like these kind of bikes and this company. Bikes like this from Open, Bombtrack, Why?, and others are exactly what people doing loaded adventures and gravel racing are looking for. Carbon wheels on metal bikes are also what a lot of use are doing on these and mountain bikes - metal 27.5+ with carbon wheels is the norm for fast bikepacking. Also, nobody is advocating switching bars - these aren't designed for flats - it's a drop bar bike.

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that this is a fly by night operation about to disappear either. If you dig around, they've earned a lot of trust and admiration. I'll chalk it up to grumpiness at being unable to ride.

[thirdgenbird]

This is basically what I want out of my next frame but I'm not big on crowd funding.

[benb]

You're obviously coming from a very different place than those of us who like these kind of bikes and this company. Bikes like this from Open, Bombtrack, Why?, and others are exactly what people doing loaded adventures and gravel racing are looking for. Carbon wheels on metal bikes are also what a lot of use are doing on these and mountain bikes - metal 27.5+ with carbon wheels is the norm for fast bikepacking. Also, nobody is advocating switching bars - these aren't designed for flats - it's a drop bar bike.

I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that this is a fly by night operation about to disappear either. If you dig around, they've earned a lot of trust and admiration. I'll chalk it up to grumpiness at being unable to ride.

The majority of the pictures on their site show the bike with flat/MTB bars. If you gave me one I'd probably build it up that way, the geometry makes more sense with a flat bar IMO.

I do like this kind of bike I just don't get why this is being considered as such an amazing frameset.

Definitely got some grump going on. I got at least 2 feet of snow in the last week!

[colker]

The prices seem kind of out of whack for what you're getting and where it's built. It seems well thought out in some ways but in others (geometry) it seems more like a cheap bike. (e.x. same length chain stays on every size, appears to have the same rake on the fork in each size, wheelbase is the same on the largest 3 sizes, same BB drop in all sizes, etc..) Geo seems like it will work for some people for some uses but not as versatile as they're marketing it as.

Basically seems like more of a Surly/All City level frame but at 3X the price, and they're not mentioning if the steel frames have anything like an ED coating to preserve them. They seem like they should at that price for the usage they're being marketed for.

Too short BB drop.

[thirdgenbird]

Too short BB drop.

Given the huge range of tire sizes and builds they intend to accommodate, it's not surprising. 65mm doesn't seem out of line for a bike that is intended to see some rough terrain. My Yeti arc-x has about 60mm of drop and it still feels stable up past 40mph.

[colker]

Given the huge range of tire sizes and builds they intend to accommodate, it's not surprising. 65mm also doesn't seem out of line for a bike that is intended to see some rough terrain. My Yeti arc-x has about 60cmm of drop and it still feels stable up past 40mph.

I am sure there is a reason but it does not make it ideal for me as a road bike w/700 wheels.
Sure.. you can do lots of things w/ that frame but i prefer road riding bikes w/ more bb drop, no matter what handlebar and tire width they sport. ymmv.

[thirdgenbird]

I am sure there is a reason but it does not make it ideal for me as a road bike w/700 wheels.
Sure.. you can do lots of things w/ that frame but i prefer road riding bikes w/ more bb drop, no matter what handlebar and tire width they sport. ymmv.

I'm not sure I would call it a road bike and many will likely sport 650b wheels.

[benb]

I am sure there is a reason but it does not make it ideal for me as a road bike w/700 wheels.
Sure.. you can do lots of things w/ that frame but i prefer road riding bikes w/ more bb drop, no matter what handlebar and tire width they sport. ymmv.

It's a MTB BB spec AFAICT... that high BB works fine on a MTB and is desirable for jumping over things, riding over logs, etc.. My MTB has a higher BB then that IIRC and it's very stable (but has a very different front end too.)

It doesn't make a lot of sense on a bike for bike packing as you can't bunnyhop a loaded bike very well and you're way more likely to be dismounting to get over a log, etc.. and the high BB (along with the steep front ends) is probably not going to be so great for hands off stability and such with baggage. Same thing for gravel, I'd prefer a lower BB.

[sandyrs]

It's a MTB BB spec AFAICT... that high BB works fine on a MTB and is desirable for jumping over things, riding over logs, etc.. My MTB has a higher BB then that IIRC and it's very stable (but has a very different front end too.)

It doesn't make a lot of sense on a bike for bike packing as you can't bunnyhop a loaded bike very well and you're way more likely to be dismounting to get over a log, etc.. and the high BB (along with the steep front ends) is probably not going to be so great for hands off stability and such with baggage. Same thing for gravel, I'd prefer a lower BB.

It's not, 6.5cm drop is standard-to-low for cyclocross bikes. MTBs often have more like 3-5cm of drop.

[thirdgenbird]

It's not, 6.5cm drop is standard-to-low for cyclocross bikes. MTBs often have more like 3-5cm of drop.

This. The front end is also slacker than my current cross bike and I think it's the bee's knees on the trail. It may not be ideal for a big front load, but there are plenty of other options if that is a priority.

This looks like it may be the perfect mix of everything that I would personally want if consolidating to a single bike. It won't be a master of a single discipline, but I don't need or expect that.