Cones for HB-7600 ShimaNo DA track hubs?

[Lewis Moon]

I found a set of DA HB-7600 track hubs for cheapies with the caveat that the front bearings are gritty. The seller suggested that I would probably need new bearings and possibly cones.

Me: "No problem. I got this".
Intertubes: "Hold on big fella, cones aren't available unless you send us your left testicle"
Left testicle: "um....no".

My question now: What about subbing in Shimano cones from another hub type? I figure there will be compatibility issues with keeping the 100mm axle width and dust cap dimensions, but it looks like there are other model numbers that look almost the same and my Super Spidey power is kludging.

[Lewis Moon]

And...you heard correctly: Shimano.


I feel so dirty.

[Gummee]

You may try a machine shop. The may be able to put the cones on a lathe and re-grind them.

May have to add a spacer to the outside to get the right locknut to locknut dimensions tho

M

[Lewis Moon]

You may try a machine shop. The may be able to put the cones on a lathe and re-grind them.

May have to add a spacer to the outside to get the right locknut to locknut dimensions tho

M

I hadn't thought of that. Brilliant.

[cmbicycles]

You may try a machine shop. The may be able to put the cones on a lathe and re-grind them.

May have to add a spacer to the outside to get the right locknut to locknut dimensions tho

M

I've done this in a pinch before... put the axle & cone (locked down) chucked in a drill, then use progressively finer grit sandpaper wrapped around something round that fits the radius of the cone. Came out nice and smooth, ymmv of course.

I've subbed cones before, not this specific model though, the key was to make sure the seals fit right. The over-locknut dimensions are easy to adjust with spacers or using parts from the donor hub.

[Lewis Moon]

I've done this in a pinch before... put the axle & cone (locked down) chucked in a drill, then use progressively finer grit sandpaper wrapped around something round that fits the radius of the cone. Came out nice and smooth, ymmv of course.

I've subbed cones before, not this specific model though, the key was to make sure the seals fit right. The over-locknut dimensions are easy to adjust with spacers or using parts from the donor hub.

If the pits in the cones aren't too egregious, I'll probably go this route too.
As I said...my Superpower is kludging.

[John H.]

If the cones and bearings are shot it is likely that the races are also shot.
I wouldn't do it unless they were like $10.

[oldpotatoe]

I found a set of DA HB-7600 track hubs for cheapies with the caveat that the front bearings are gritty. The seller suggested that I would probably need new bearings and possibly cones.

Me: "No problem. I got this".
Intertubes: "Hold on big fella, cones aren't available unless you send us your left testicle"
Left testicle: "um....no".

My question now: What about subbing in Shimano cones from another hub type? I figure there will be compatibility issues with keeping the 100mm axle width and dust cap dimensions, but it looks like there are other model numbers that look almost the same and my Super Spidey power is kludging.

Give Wheels Manufacturing a shout. They are fairly standard 9by1 and 10by1 axles. I would think there are suitable cones out there. Email this guy, tell him I sent ya.

javier.l@wheelsmfg.com

[11.4]

You can buy replacement cones and replacement complete axle sets, on eBay, from TrackSuperMarket, and other sources.

Cups may also be damaged. If that's the case, there are a variety of threads out there about how to pop the cups out and install sealed bearing cartridges.

If the hub is running rough, it's past the point where buffing out the cones will clean it up. And if you turn the cones down even slightly, you change the bearing spacing and end up with very uneven performance and rapid deterioration. If the wheel matters to you, I'd just get replacement parts on eBay. If the cups are gone, get a new hub.

And yes, Wheels Manufacturing does have solid axles to fit those hubs. Be sure you don't get ones for 7710 hubs, which are slightly different. Wheels does have some cones but the ones I've tried in the past didn't work well. Also, the Wheels axles aren't as stiff an alloy as the original Shimano ones and can take on a set over time.

[Lewis Moon]

I'm going to wait till I have the hubs in hand, torn down and inspected before I make any final decisions other than ordering the bearings. If they are too pitted, I may shelve them till I can find cones, etc at a reasonable price. I have wheels.

[11.4]

And by the way, Lewis, you don't have much of an option in Campy track hubs. The old Records are pretty much gone or bid up into the stratosphere, and the alloy was so soft and the holes close enough to the edge of the flange that modern rims with higher tensions will elongate the holes faster than you'd want. And C-record (either low flange or high flange "Sheriff's Star") are not that reliable, need an extra PITA tool to service, and are simply not worth it. And they also have been bid into the stratosphere as collectibles. The 7600 hubs and Suntour Superbe Pros are the two best out there, with the 7600s still more serviceable due to spare parts availability. And Superbe Pros are nearly all NJS configurations so only 36 holes, which one often can't even match in modern rims. There are Phil Wood hubs, which are very nice and durable. But 7600s hit all the buttons. They're winners.

[muz]

I had the same issue a few years ago. I commute about 5K miles a year on my fixed gear, and had a 7600 rear hub (now replaced by a Phil Wood).

First, it's most likely that you will only need cones, and maybe just one cone (drive side). I have found that cups stay good for a while when cones start to go bad, at least for Campy and Shimano.

7600 cones are special in that they have a slot for a plastic dust shield that can be omitted for track use. I looked around and could not find the correct cone, but another Shimano cone was a good fit (Ultegra HF-6500 right rear cone IIRC). No dust shield, and I think the cone was slightly shorter so I had to use a wider spacer on that side. I still use the wheel and it spins well, just no longer for commuting.

[ultraman6970]

Unless you have really deep holes in the coles the fix is pretty simple, just sand the cone and polish the heck out of it, silicon grease or lithium grease and good to go.

Never seen shimano track hubs go south, maybe because we used them in the track exclusively?

[muz]

Unless you have really deep holes in the coles the fix is pretty simple, just sand the cone and polish the heck out of it, silicon grease or lithium grease and good to go.

Never seen shimano track hubs go south, maybe because we used them in the track exclusively?

Don't do this, it will feel coarse and not last very long. Once the polished surface has deep pits, there is no way to recover.

You can check Shimano exploded diagrams here:

http://si.shimano.com/#/

Enter FH-6500 and HB-7600. You can see that the Ultegra rear right cone is 13.5 mm instead of the proper 15mm long, but it will fit. I think the Ultegra o-ring will be useless; there is no way to mount the 7600 "Seal Ring" on the Ultegra cone.

[cmbicycles]

Don't do this, it will feel coarse and not last very long. Once the polished surface has deep pits, there is no way to recover.
...

What exactly is a polished surface if it is not worked with progressively finer material (ie compound or sandpaper)? YMMV of course, but done well, sanding the cone wouldn't have the immediate consequences you suggest. The actual contact point between the ball and cone is minimal. If you want it polished afterwards, pack polishing compound in the hub, rotate the axle 90 degrees every 10 miles, then toss those bearings, clean it up with fresh bearings and repack with grease.

[Hindmost]

...may be able to put the cones on a lathe and re-grind them...

The cones should have been hardened. Can probably cut into the hardened layer but the resulting surface may not be optimal.

As OP said, Wheels Eng. has some likely options.

[muz]

What exactly is a polished surface if it is not worked with progressively finer material (ie compound or sandpaper)? YMMV of course, but done well, sanding the cone wouldn't have the immediate consequences you suggest. The actual contact point between the ball and cone is minimal. If you want it polished afterwards, pack polishing compound in the hub, rotate the axle 90 degrees every 10 miles, then toss those bearings, clean it up with fresh bearings and repack with grease.

This works for cheap hubs which use surface hardened cones. Once the surface is damaged, the softer material is exposed and can be sanded down. Higher end cones (Shimano and Campy) are case hardened. You won't be able to remove enough material to get rid of the pits, and any remaining irregularities will quickly damage the bearing balls, adding more grit.

[cmbicycles]

This works for cheap hubs which use surface hardened cones. Once the surface is damaged, the softer material is exposed and can be sanded down. Higher end cones (Shimano and Campy) are case hardened. You won't be able to remove enough material to get rid of the pits, and any remaining irregularities will quickly damage the bearing balls, adding more grit.

Case hardening is the same thing as surface hardening, two different descriptions of the same process as it were. There are different ways of case hardening and different depths you can do it, but that doesn't typically factor into cheaply manufactured parts like bicycle cones.

[Lewis Moon]

Really good news: A big wet kiss for the hack mechanic who over tightened the front cones. They're perfect. A quick rebuild and they're like buttah. These are going to make for some swell wheels.
Yet another silk purse made from someone else's sow's ear.

[oldpotatoe]

Really good news: A big wet kiss for the hack mechanic who over tightened the front cones. They're perfect. A quick rebuild and they're like buttah. These are going to make for some swell wheels.
Yet another silk purse made from someone else's sow's ear.

Good for you. Don't kiss the guy tho, he may discover the error of his ways and reduce the number of 'good deals' out there cuz the seller doesn't know what he's got.

I once found a really good deal on a Merckx, not in the standard lists because the seller mis spelled 'Merckx'..

[Lewis Moon]

Good for you. Don't kiss the guy tho, he may discover the error of his ways and reduce the number of 'good deals' out there cuz the seller doesn't know what he's got.

I once found a really good deal on a Merckx, not in the standard lists because the seller mis spelled 'Merckx'..

Sometimes I purposefully look for misspellings on Ebay for just that reason. Campanolo, Canpagnolo, Campagnola, Canpagnola....