Censorship 2

[rustychisel]

I'm with Campyorbust.

This is silly.

Be offended, for sure. Be offended on your own terms. I thought individual liberty and free speech and expression were features of the American claim to greatness.

[CampyorBust]

I'm with Campyorbust.

This is silly.

Be offended, for sure. Be offended on your own terms. I thought individual liberty and free speech and expression were features of the American claim to greatness.

Thanks rustychisel :beer:

I'm not trying to start anything, just sayin.

[rustychisel]

me also. I don't like CX, I don't like this played out 'meme', but I don't need anyone to decide on my behalf. It's the height of arrogance.

[AngryScientist]

since i closed the last one, i'll respond with my reasoning.

as campyorbust said in the last thread, he thought no one was ever offended by the "hilarious" hitler video. i know for a fact that he is incorrect in that assumption.

some folks do not consider a video featuring hitler screaming "hilarious", and take offense at the making light of the matter.

it is NO different than if someone posted an outwardly racist or sexist video here that they thought was absolutely funny, but other members were hurt or offended.

freedom of speech is fine, but we want everyone here to feel welcome, and if some people are uncomfortable with objectionable content, i feel that it should not be allowed.

please see the user agreement with regard to objectionable content.

anyway, that's my take on it.

[Tony T]

"Gerta, I never understood the front brake on the right side either"

[Blown Reek]

Jeez... everybody needs to relax. Maybe CampyorBust and rustychisel should just chill out and have an ice cream with AngryScientist.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/05/26/14/2915619F00000578-0-image-a-60_1432648316213.jpg

[fuzzalow]

Nothing funny about the video that took a good movie "Der Untergang" and turned it into a sophomoric attempt at misplaced satire about CX.

fuhgeddabout censoring the thread on the basis of bad taste, which it was. That thread shoulda been put outta its misery for the sheer outrage of thinking it was clever or humorous. Adolescent thinking at best so of course with an adult crowd, the joke plays out with the thud of a dullards head hitting a desktop.

There is never anything funny about stupid.

[unterhausen]

the free speech guaranteed by the U.S. first amendment limits what the government can do, it doesn't limit what the rest of us can do. And it doesn't guarantee that speech has no consequences.

[tctyres]

There is never anything funny about stupid.

+1
For those of us who understand German, that was a bad attempt at humor.

Humor involves timing and taste. If you want to rag on about free speech, remember that your rights end where mine (or anyone else's) begin. There is no such thing as totally free speech nor will there ever be.

You clicked on an agreement when you chose your username for this site, and that agreement involves taste and tone of posts. "Censorship" in this case is a misnomer because you agreed to have a forum that is moderated for everyone's benefit. The mods disagreed with a post and so closed the thread. I see no problem.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Why is this bike forum the place for you folks to come to push buttons? Why not go play in the sandbox where the kids are discussing politics and using memes for the majority of their dialogue? "Because you can" is seldom a solid basis for doing much of anything.

[slidey]

A handful of people, handpicked as "moderators", decide ad-hoc based on their bias as to what is offensive, or what's not. I certainly don't feel represented in most of these "bans", but have at it.

For the record, the above is what I'd call offensive.

[R3awak3n]

I don't have anything to say about the video, doesn't bother me and I do think there are some silly things that happen here (you can't swear, I mean, we are not 10 years old here).

that said, its not a public forum and so if someone that is hosting doesn't like what is going on they can shut it down, plain and simple.

[MattTuck]

I think the mods do an admirable job with this place. I've submitted posts that got flagged and removed. It doesn't make me think they're censoring me. They have certain guidelines that they are trying to abide by, and it's a pretty thankless job.

Chapeau to the mods :beer:

[CampyorBust]

Now I see the spin. Well done, foolish, but well done.

Personally I have seen these Hitler videos many times, for many different topics. I am originally from Russia where every family paid a dear price in protecting their country and freeing the world from this filth. Laughing at Hitler is a welcome reprieve from the memories of the horrors that were endured. Trust me NEVER AGAIN!

All this PC nonsense is nothing more than a hysterical spectacle, and a gross overreaction, which breathes life into something that would not be an issue otherwise.

I would also note that the real issue I took offense too. The omission of the suffering of all WW2 victims is strategically ignored. Dispicable, one might even say Deplorable!

I bid you good day.

[William]

ad hoc
ˌad ˈhäk/
adjective & adverb
formed, arranged, or done for a particular purpose only.
"an ad hoc committee"

Yes, we try to keep the conversations civil, allow threads to run their course, and not get involved too much. We are volunteers and long-time members in this community. As has been stated, this is not a public forum, and there is a set of guidelines we try to run this place by. Like many things in life, there is no way we can please everyone, but as a group we try to moderate the forum as best we can.







William

[Bruce K]

We have closed similar threads that used this video in the past.

Not sure why "No" doesn't mean "No".

It wasn't funny and was offensive the last 2 or 3 times. Nothing has changed except the topic of the dialog.

BK

[josephr]

Now I see the spin. Well done, foolish, but well done.

Personally I have seen these Hitler videos many times, for many different topics. I am originally from Russia where every family paid a dear price in protecting their country and freeing the world from this filth. Laughing at Hitler is a welcome reprieve from the memories of the horrors that were endured. Trust me NEVER AGAIN!

All this PC nonsense is nothing more than a hysterical spectacle, and a gross overreaction, which breathes life into something that would not be an issue otherwise.

I would also note that the real issue I took offense too. The omission of the suffering of all WW2 victims is strategically ignored. Dispicable, one might even say Deplorable!

I bid you good day.


Thanks for sharing your perspective. As with many things, the term 'political correctness' is often used when the offender doesn't understand the side of the offended. Unfortunately....social media such as forums, facebook, twitter, etc, try as they might, are very good for disseminating information, but information going the other direction is lost in translation. As a result, people seemingly have to pick a side and be prepared to defend/attack.

That's just my opinion...however, I've seen that video before used in other ways and to me, its funny and I get it, but at the same time, I cringe because because it makes light of a very serious situation.

For example, when someone is talking about being frustrated about a minor situation and jokingly makes their hand into a gun and points it to their head and says "pow".....many times they don't know if a person in the room may have had family member who had completed suicide, who just might not find it funny. I'm one of those that just never finds that funny.

Final note: thanks mods for all you guys do.

[CampyorBust]

Fair enough on the video deletion, that is good enough for me. What I take issue with is the reason given.

Not a public forum, what does that mean? Anybody can create an account and post, seems public enough to me. Or does that mean the guidelines by which this forum is moderated are not public. Which might account for a certain world view and agenda often allowed to peek through the benevolent "political free" facade.

Again my issue is the biased political slant and omission of history as a reason given for closing a thread. I am correct in surmising that this observation is not even being disputed and is implied as a matter of fact?:confused:

[ultraman6970]

WHat happened?

Hittler is a last name, a lot of them in the states and arent related to the bad guy, either way they are given the bad eye for stuff arent even related to and that happened 1000 years ago. I say... turn the page... remember stuff and get mad about dont bring anything good, not saying not be aware of the past... just dont get silly about it, life is too short for getting mad for silly games... that's what tolerance is about IMO.

[William]

Not a public forum, what does that mean? Anybody can create an account and post, seems public enough to me. Or does that mean the guidelines by which this forum is moderated are not public. Which might account for a certain world view and agenda often allowed to peek through the benevolent "political free" facade.

Its not public in the sense that no one can just show here and post, you have to be a member. You have to join the forum to get access, and to get access you have to agree to the forum user agreement.

The guidelines are posted, all you have to do is look at the top of every page for the Paceline User agreement…


Paceline User Agreement:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/announcement.php?f=3

To add for the Classifieds...
Classifieds User Rules:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=153038







William

[slidey]

Thankless job, sure...so, a shoddy job is acceptable?!

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no one to question the judgment of the moderators; a moderator's word is delivered as if it were a sermon from the mount - that's what rubs me the wrong way.

A simple solution to get the people the members more engaged would be to have a "Like"/"Dislike" option for each post, and leave the members to either +/- a post. A vast number of -'s can help triage what/where the offending post is. The way it is set up now, it is definitely sub-optimal to the way it can be.

Don't want to make the change, alright - I can't, norm am interested to do squat, just like I didn't care enough to bring it up before now as part of a thread. It's a private forum anyway, as a lot of people have eloquently pointed out, so carry on!

[MattTuck]

Thankless job, sure...so, a shoddy job is acceptable?!

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no one to question the judgment of the moderators; a moderator's word is delivered as if it were a sermon from the mount - that's what rubs me the wrong way.

A simple solution to get the people the members more engaged would be to have a "Like"/"Dislike" option for each post, and leave the members to either +/- a post. A vast number of -'s can help triage what/where the offending post is. The way it is set up now, it is definitely sub-optimal to the way it can be.

Don't want to make the change, alright - I can't, norm am interested to do squat, just like I didn't care enough to bring it up before now as part of a thread. It's a private forum anyway, as a lot of people have eloquently pointed out, so carry on!

Yeah, we have that. It's called "reporting a post", which notifies the mods. and is how they are alerted to a post that is offensive to some members.

[josephr]

Fair enough on the video deletion, that is good enough for me. What I take issue with is the reason given.

Not a public forum, what does that mean? Anybody can create an account and post, seems public enough to me. Or does that mean the guidelines by which this forum is moderated are not public. Which might account for a certain world view and agenda often allowed to peek through the benevolent "political free" facade.

Again my issue is the biased political slant and omission of history as a reason given for closing a thread. I am correct in surmising that this observation is not even being disputed and is implied as a matter of fact?:confused:

...use is free, and anyone can sign up....true, but you can't just walk into a bar and start telling muslim jokes, black jokes, white jokes, polish jokes, jewish jokes, hitler jokes. You're lucky if the bartender gives you a warning before he calls the bouncer. :beer:

[AngryScientist]

Thankless job, sure...so, a shoddy job is acceptable?!



i'm sorry to hear you feel that way slidey. i do think your post is rather insulting though.

[djg21]

I do not subscribe to the position that anything that depicts Hitler is offensive. To the contrary, anything that underscores that Hitler was a madman is fine by me, and for what it's worth, I had family die in camps, and grew up attending Passover seders with people who had numbers tattooed on their arms. If anything, use of the film excerpt has become cliche and in many cases the parodies are not funny. On the other hand, I have seen (and posted) some that I believed very funny.

I don't think these parodies should be deleted or barred as a matter of course merely because they might offend someone, who in my opinion might have eggshell-like sensitivities. Of course, others are free to disagree.

[djg21]

Nothing funny about the video that took a good movie "Der Untergang" and turned it into a sophomoric attempt at misplaced satire about CX.

fuhgeddabout censoring the thread on the basis of bad taste, which it was. That thread shoulda been put outta its misery for the sheer outrage of thinking it was clever or humorous. Adolescent thinking at best so of course with an adult crowd, the joke plays out with the thud of a dullards head hitting a desktop.

There is never anything funny about stupid.

I thought the clip was from the film "Valkyrie." I stand corrected.

[David Tollefson]

Some one else pays for the server space on which this here forum resides. That makes this their private little Idaho, and thus, they say what goes. I'm good with that. It's the same on virtually every other forum on which I've ever participated. Can't handle that, then don't hang out here. Pretty simple.

[slidey]

i'm sorry to hear you feel that way slidey. i do think your post is rather insulting though.

Ok, then coincidentally, we're now in the same sentiment-space. What exactly was insulting to you, Nick? I relayed to you exactly what the shutdown's by moderators often times strikes me as - nothing more, nothing less.

Put more simply, I like a transparent way of managing things, and the moderation on this site is not designed with transparency in mind.

Again, will my life have a rainbow on it, if there are drastic changes made to this forum, no. Will my life be that much emptier if it conitnues the way it is, again, no. So, the above is my feedback - to react/not, is a choice, only for the mods (by design).

Matt: "Report" misses transparency, "Like" button would not.

[bicycletricycle]

we can argue all day about these things, however, clearly a balance is needed. keeping this a neutral place is important, it doesn't need to be a forum to express any and all constitutionally protected speech.

[djg21]

Some one else pays for the server space on which this here forum resides. That makes this their private little Idaho, and thus, they say what goes. I'm good with that. It's the same on virtually every other forum on which I've ever participated. Can't handle that, then don't hang out here. Pretty simple.

The Mods do the best they can given limited time and resources. You may disagree with them at times, but recognize they have taken on a thankless task out of the goodness of their hearts.

[nephron]

I don't often post here but hang out here almost every day.
I feel compelled to say that overall I think the moderators here
do an excellent job and that this probably the single best forum I frequent.
again it is a thankless job but you guys are taking very good care of this place.
thanks.

[AngryScientist]

What exactly was insulting to you, Nick?

The implication that the moderators do a shoddy job.

i think that all of the moderators here do a pretty good job, keeping in mind that "you cant please all the people, all the time", and what is an ideal solution for you may not be for 100% of the forum membership. It's not easy, and realistically not possible to keep everyone here happy, and implying that we are doing a poor job at it is, well - insulting.



Shoddy

badly made or done.
"we're not paying good money for shoddy goods"
synonyms: poor-quality, inferior, second-rate, third-rate, cheap, cheapjack, trashy, jerry-built; informaltacky, chintzy, rubbishy, junky, tinpot, cheapo, cheesy, schlocky, low-rent
"shoddy goods"
careless, slapdash, sloppy, slipshod, crude;
negligent, cursory
"shoddy workmanship"

[Mr. Squirrel]

i am offended that there are not more squirrels allowed on this forum. nuk nuk nuk!

mr. squirrel

[AngryScientist]

anyway - i'm off for an hour of zwift workout time!

i suggest everyone else go do something productive and physically demanding too!

oh P.S.

we're not perfect, but this is my favorite forum on the internet and i heart you all.

https://img.clipartfest.com/e796bd7caa30da6eb0e51c83ffd2e6a5_group-hug-group-hug-clipart_540-446.jpeg

[fiamme red]

If you think that the mods here are heavy-handed, you can go across the hall, where I guess that moderation is much more lax. ;)

[gdw]

Much ado about nothing, once again...... happens every winter.

PS - methinks the mods do a pretty good job herding the cats who roam this forum.

[Jad]

Nothing funny about the video that took a good movie "Der Untergang" and turned it into a sophomoric attempt at misplaced satire about CX.

fuhgeddabout censoring the thread on the basis of bad taste, which it was. That thread shoulda been put outta its misery for the sheer outrage of thinking it was clever or humorous. Adolescent thinking at best so of course with an adult crowd, the joke plays out with the thud of a dullards head hitting a desktop.

There is never anything funny about stupid.

I started thinking of a response, but this about says it.

I also appreciate the moderators' judicious work--thanks for your efforts.

[GregL]

IMO, the moderators here are fair to all users. Does anybody else feel the phrase "Lighten up, Francis" comes to mind?

Greg

[slidey]

The implication that the moderators do a shoddy job.

i think that all of the moderators here do a pretty good job, keeping in mind that "you cant please all the people, all the time", and what is an ideal solution for you may not be for 100% of the forum membership. It's not easy, and realistically not possible to keep everyone here happy, and implying that we are doing a poor job at it is, well - insulting.

To clarify - great job keeping the servers spinning, doing memory backups, adding infrastructure, managing to maintain minimal downtime, getting sponsors, organising/encouraging paceline-branded knick-knacks, setting up a marketplace, setting up a marketplace feedback thread, building framebuilder specific spotlights, etc.

Regarding shoddy job - I specifically meant that the decision to close down threads smacks of a shoddy job, because it is not transparent, hence seems ad-hoc. So yeah, on that specific front, no implication, I'm telling you straight up that it is a shoddy job, per me, and by design (no transparency on the engagement of a post) that is the expected outcome.

Doing a shoddy job on one front doesn't imply that all you mods do is a shoddy job, in case that wasn't clear.

Also, I have no illusions that I am just 1 person, and I don't own this place - I've made my choice, and that reflects in my engagement on this forum. I gave my feedback regarding censorship of threads on this forum, in the spirit of providing constructive criticism (there's a solution* proposed in there, if you care to read it, not just stones being thrown) - nothing more nothing less. What you choose to do with it - is a choice only those of you who are in power on this forum will have to choose.

* solution not claimed to be perfect either - meant to be a conversation starter, if the appetite for it exists/is allowed to grow.

[CampyorBust]

Overall the moderating is not bad, I have witnessed worse muuuuuchhhh worse. Actually I get good vibes from most of the mods. And thank you for your hard work, I am sure its not easy.

However I found this….

“These are pretty insensitive to our members whose families were affected by the Holicaust.”

…Insulting. (BTW it is spelled Holocaust)

As it ignores the suffering of millions, as if it didn’t happen. Does it get any uglier than this?A very easy mistake to avoid, and yet it was not, and a hot enough issue to know better, it appears to have been posted to illicit a response. Still this is ignored and we are on the 3rd page. Anyone care to tackle this?

A simple … “hey CampyorBust and all others whose families suffered as a result of Hitler’s actions. I am sorry, that was short sighted of me it was early in the morning and the gerbil was not yet warmed up (that there is a joke to show ones light heartedness), I meant no offense. Would suffice. Still the ill conceived comment boldly stands in all its glory.

If you think this is a non-issue, please reconsider your position. So it’s an issue for some of the victims but not all? Are you serious?

[Buzz]

Now I see the spin. Well done, foolish, but well done.

Personally I have seen these Hitler videos many times, for many different topics. I am originally from Russia where every family paid a dear price in protecting their country and freeing the world from this filth. Laughing at Hitler is a welcome reprieve from the memories of the horrors that were endured. Trust me NEVER AGAIN!

All this PC nonsense is nothing more than a hysterical spectacle, and a gross overreaction, which breathes life into something that would not be an issue otherwise.

I would also note that the real issue I took offense too. The omission of the suffering of all WW2 victims is strategically ignored. Dispicable, one might even say Deplorable!

I bid you good day.

Agreed. I have plenty of family and relatives who suffered dearly at the hands of the Germans during WWII. The few that are still alive could care less about this kind of stuff.

They would be the first to tell you that what is far more offensive is the pc and chilling of free speech under the guise or concern that some people take offense or become uncomfortable. That is where the real danger lies.

[bluesea]

Thanks to the admin and mod crew for preserving the character of the forums, what with its growth over the past few years.

[Tony]

I don't often post here but hang out here almost every day.
I feel compelled to say that overall I think the moderators here
do an excellent job and that this probably the single best forum I frequent.
again it is a thankless job but you guys are taking very good care of this place.
thanks.

I agree with this, and agree with the steps the mods took that got us here.
I will say that I got a good laugh at of that video!

[johnmdesigner]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

I think it's wonderful that the OP is such a fervent believer in the First Amendment but I think it rather sad that he chooses to test it's limits on a cycling internet forum.

I am so saddened by current events that sometimes I come here just to escape reality for awhile and think about riding my bike.

There is so much injustice in the world that I wish people would use their energy to address it instead of wasting it on some drivel.

The whole point of posting such things about past provocative events is to get some attention focused on you. Why don't you tell us about something good you did today?

Here's mine: I found an old ladies wallet in my elevator this morning with lots of cash in it. I spent about an hour tracking her down. She didn't even realize she had lost it but then she burst into tears and gave me a big hug.

So when I come here and read this crap it makes me sad. SAD! I tell you and I appreciate it that the MODS keep this place a little corner of sanity in a crazy world where we can all escape to sometimes. Gentlemen keep up the good work!

[Aaron O]

I'll chime in, as a Jewish guy. I am stating my opinion/approach, and it's not meant to imply I speak for anyone else, or am offering insight into a community.

Personally I find the screaming Hitler videos funny, or at least did the first time I saw one. It trivializes him and his ideology to me, and I'm A-OK with that. I'm also A-OK with someone else viewing it differently...and the mods get to make the call on whether it belongs here. It's a bike forum...if they left it on, I wouldn't care. I also don't care that they elected for removal...unless you want their (unpaid) job, probably best to be quiet.

I dislike our tendency to treat Hitler/Nazis as a boogey man sacred cow, or as a unique evil. I dislike that tendency because it lets Europeans, European culture, christian/catholic attitudes and policies over nearly 2000 years off the hook. By turning Hitler into the great boogey man, we ignore that the holocaust, and the beliefs around the holocaust, were not unique, and were not even extreme for the time. We use Hitler so as to avoid looking at human nature and at long held cultural policies and beliefs.

Hitler did not singularly destroy nations or do anything unique in history. Hitler was popularly elected by a majority of Germans and backed by traditional German industrial powers. The rhetoric used by Hitler was not especially unique or particularly onerous within the context of the time and place - much of it was commonly held to be true. Blaming hitler as some evil brainwashing unique monster lets European culture off the hook for their long held beliefs and practices. The truth is far more disturbing. Most Germans supported hitler's prosperity until the bombs fell in Berlin.

The holocaust isn't unique - Europeans have a long history of mass murder involving Jews, Roma and others. Indeed the only shocking difference was the existence of cameras to document it. Spain, England, Russia, poles, the baltic states, etc. all have ignoble histories of barbarism consistent with the holocaust. The standard path is that a king wishes to spur development and/or introduce capitalist principles for personal gain. That aim is at odds with usury laws. The king circumvents usury laws by issuing an edict of tolerance to bring in Jews. The Jews then lend on behalf of the king, paying taxes and tribute allowing nobles to get around usury laws and also focusing debtor animosity on the evil hook nosed Jewish creditors.

A populist succeeds the king and, with the gleeful support of his people, throws out and/or massacres the Jews, stealing anything left that they have on the way out. This was repeated countless times through many countries and the German example is not singular. Indeed the worst atrocities in ww2 weren't typically committed by Germans - the worst mofos were the poorer eastern euro countries - the Lithuanians, Estonians, Romanians, Latvians (particularly bad), ukrainians, and Cossacks. Most of these groups still lie and deny culpability, blaming it all on the boogey man. Strangely countries that wanted to save their Jews did...few died in Bulgaria, Sweden or Denmark because their people did not want them to die. It's so much easier to blame hitler though.

The Swiss denied having acted as a clearinghouse for stolen possessions for decades - they were eventually exposed and everyone knew they were lying the entire time. My illiterate grandfather knew the Swiss stole art and teeth fillings. The Austrians actually pretend to have been conquered - rather than being lying sacks of nazi **** that never answered for their actions and barely felt the pain of reconstruction. Vienna is still filled with their theft.

I'm tired of using AH as a boogeyman. It lets euros and Christian culture off the hook for their inhumane, centuries old, anti-Semitic traditions and actions. Blaming AH allows people to forget that Martin Luther was a rabid anti-Semite. It lets us forget the vatican's long tradition of anti-semitism, the spanish diaspora, being thrown out of england, etc.

It also ignores that this country, and every other country, has elements of tribalism and scapegoating "the other". We're currently going through a round of this non-sense...as are the brits, French, etc. Blaming AH and using him as the boogeyman is a collective therapy for our sins that is far easier than looking in mirrors. At the same time we fought nazism, we had Japanese citizens in camps...and no country is immune from this tendency.

[echelon_john]

Threads like this are a great tool for maintaining and updating one's 'ignore' settings.

I appreciate everything the mods do to make this one of, if not the, most civil and useful forums I've ever participated in. We're all guests at will here. If you think there's a better option, feel free to vote with your feet...err, mouse.

[PQJ]

I think the mods do an admirable job with this place. I've submitted posts that got flagged and removed. It doesn't make me think they're censoring me. They have certain guidelines that they are trying to abide by, and it's a pretty thankless job.

Chapeau to the mods :beer:

Some one else pays for the server space on which this here forum resides. That makes this their private little Idaho, and thus, they say what goes. I'm good with that. It's the same on virtually every other forum on which I've ever participated. Can't handle that, then don't hang out here. Pretty simple.

The Mods do the best they can given limited time and resources. You may disagree with them at times, but recognize they have taken on a thankless task out of the goodness of their hearts.

I don't often post here but hang out here almost every day.
I feel compelled to say that overall I think the moderators here
do an excellent job and that this probably the single best forum I frequent.
again it is a thankless job but you guys are taking very good care of this place.
thanks.

Much ado about nothing, once again...... happens every winter.

PS - methinks the mods do a pretty good job herding the cats who roam this forum.

Thanks to the admin and mod crew for preserving the character of the forums, what with its growth over the past few years.

+ 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

My only complaint vis-a-vis the mods is that they won't give me that damn 'like' button I've been asking for for years!!!!

[Dead Man]

This is NOT a heavy-handed forum.

I don't know what kinds of other forums you guys kick it on, but this place is pretty chill. I've been banned numerous times on several other forums, some even permanently. Here? I think I've been PM'd two, maybe three times, and given unofficial warning, in the entire time I've been here.

[djg21]

Maybe we all can agree to let this thread die without the Moderators having to do anything further. The points all have been made, and surely have been taken under advisement.

[thirdgenbird]

Wow, I dig this place and the mods even though I often don't agree with some overall tones.

On another forum, I had a moderator call me a "dick" for some fit advice I gave a member. He said it was incorrect and not asked for. The member didn't ask for fit advice, but was new to cycling and expressed discomfort. To make the story even better, after deleting my comment, the same mod gave another member THE SAME fit advice, nearly word for word.

On the same forum, a moderator verbally abused a group of member. I reported the post and the same Mod told me not to do that. I quoted the post and asked why this was ok. My post was deleted. I did it again and then I was given points and a warning for threatening a mod's authority. I then reached out to another mod privately and they told me that the moderator's blatant name calling was justified even though the terms of agreement explicitly disallowed name calling. Needless to say, I haven't been back since.

Anyway, I've been on a lot of forums and this is by far the friendliest and best moderated. Awesome group of people in my opinion.

[Aaron O]

It's an unpaid gig that people do as a labor of love...if you don't like the way they do it, there are other forums. It's really not that big of a deal, or shouldn't be.

I personally don't find it offensive, but that's one man's opinion. If the mods have determined others feel differently, and it should be gone...that's their choice.

[echappist]

Thankless job, sure...so, a shoddy job is acceptable?!

The point I'm trying to make is that there is no one to question the judgment of the moderators; a moderator's word is delivered as if it were a sermon from the mount - that's what rubs me the wrong way.

A simple solution to get the people the members more engaged would be to have a "Like"/"Dislike" option for each post, and leave the members to either +/- a post. A vast number of -'s can help triage what/where the offending post is. The way it is set up now, it is definitely sub-optimal to the way it can be.

Don't want to make the change, alright - I can't, norm am interested to do squat, just like I didn't care enough to bring it up before now as part of a thread. It's a private forum anyway, as a lot of people have eloquently pointed out, so carry on!

Let's entertain your proposition. However, it would appear that there are more people supporting what the Mods do than there are people who think they are doing a shoddy job (I'll add myself to the column of the former)

So now what now? To whom else would you appeal? State court, Federal Circuit, The Hague?

I think those with at least a few hundred posts here have all been told, at one time or another, to stop discussing topics that leads to acrimony, and most of us see value in membership in the forum and stop, whether or not we agree with that decision. Why is it that you and a few others feel entitled to a full hearing and won't drop the point?

[echappist]

PS. Here's a tally. Note how many in the agree column wasn't offended by the video but were fine with the moderation

those in support of the mods (didn't include a few that didn't expressly state support)


Wow, I dig this place and the mods even though I often don't agree with some overall tones.

Anyway, I've been on a lot of forums and this is by far the friendliest and best moderated. Awesome group of people in my opinion.

This is NOT a heavy-handed forum.

I don't know what kinds of other forums you guys kick it on, but this place is pretty chill. I've been banned numerous times on several other forums, some even permanently. Here? I think I've been PM'd two, maybe three times, and given unofficial warning, in the entire time I've been here.

+ 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

My only complaint vis-a-vis the mods is that they won't give me that damn 'like' button I've been asking for for years!!!!

Threads like this are a great tool for maintaining and updating one's 'ignore' settings.

I appreciate everything the mods do to make this one of, if not the, most civil and useful forums I've ever participated in. We're all guests at will here. If you think there's a better option, feel free to vote with your feet...err, mouse.


So when I come here and read this crap it makes me sad. SAD! I tell you and I appreciate it that the MODS keep this place a little corner of sanity in a crazy world where we can all escape to sometimes. Gentlemen keep up the good work!

I agree with this, and agree with the steps the mods took that got us here.
I will say that I got a good laugh at of that video!

Thanks to the admin and mod crew for preserving the character of the forums, what with its growth over the past few years.

IMO, the moderators here are fair to all users. Does anybody else feel the phrase "Lighten up, Francis" comes to mind?

Greg

Much ado about nothing, once again...... happens every winter.

PS - methinks the mods do a pretty good job herding the cats who roam this forum.

I don't often post here but hang out here almost every day.
I feel compelled to say that overall I think the moderators here
do an excellent job and that this probably the single best forum I frequent.
again it is a thankless job but you guys are taking very good care of this place.
thanks.



Final note: thanks mods for all you guys do.

I think the mods do an admirable job with this place. I've submitted posts that got flagged and removed. It doesn't make me think they're censoring me. They have certain guidelines that they are trying to abide by, and it's a pretty thankless job.

Chapeau to the mods :beer:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and those against

Thanks rustychisel :beer:

I'm not trying to start anything, just sayin.

I'm with Campyorbust.

This is silly.

Be offended, for sure. Be offended on your own terms. I thought individual liberty and free speech and expression were features of the American claim to greatness.

A handful of people, handpicked as "moderators", decide ad-hoc based on their bias as to what is offensive, or what's not. I certainly don't feel represented in most of these "bans", but have at it.

For the record, the above is what I'd call offensive.

so, 13 in favor of mods to 3 against. That'd be a pretty good record whether in a sporting arena or a court of law.

Would the poster Slidey asking for a upvote/downvote system rest the case?

[Tony T]

Sometimes I think it would be better for some threads to just end on it's own instead of being locked (i.e. every Lance Armstrong thread ever), and I really hate it when someone uses the politics/personal attack loophole to get a thread closed when they don't like the topic.

What I don't understand is, when a thread is deemed offensive, shouldn't it be deleted instead of locked?

[Dead Man]

What I don't understand is, when a thread is deemed offensive, shouldn't it be deleted instead of locked?

This didn't escape me either.

The video thread is still up there, horrors still contained therein, still being viewed, still horrifying all who happen across it.

I'm pretty sure the point was to get a point across, not to protect any sensitive members.

[CampyorBust]

Page 4 and the real issue with the thread is still being willfully ignored.

Gaslighting at its finest...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

[Keith A]

First of all, as the other moderators have stated, it is a challenge to maintain a balance between allowing a thread to run it's course or shut it down. We often discuss this decision behind the scene and come to a consensus before taking action. However, there are times when a moderator has to act quickly before things get out of control, but they will always report back what was done and usually state that if someone disagrees, that we can open the discussion back up again.

We also strive for transparency and any moderator that closes a thread should post why this was done. I know this doesn't always happen, but we do try and let you know why the discussion was closed.

I am very grateful for the work that moderators do and the time they spend watching over things. So thank you gasman, Bruce K, William, AngryScientist, Bradford and BumbleBeeDave!!!

+ 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

My only complaint vis-a-vis the mods is that they won't give me that damn 'like' button I've been asking for for years!!!!Sorry about this, I'll look and see what it takes to add this feature.

[Keith A]

Page 4 and the real issue with the thread is still being willfully ignored.

Gaslighting at its finest...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GaslightingAnd what issue is that?

[Tony T]

First of all, as the other moderators have stated it is a challenge to maintain a balance between allowing a thread to run it's course or shut it down.

Is it possible to delete individual responses in a thread?
This might be another solution when someone injects a political statement or personal attack.

[mistermo]

There is never anything funny about stupid.

I offer Homer Simpson.

[CampyorBust]

Giving a politicized statment/historical ommission when it comes to the lives of milions as a reason to close the thread is in bad taste to say the least. Thats all I am saying.

Closing the thread is fine, but the reason for doing so could have been better state, and did precisely what it claimed to be stoping - offending people.

[C. Matthews]

[QUOTE=Aaron O;2119059]I'll chime in, as a Jewish guy. I am stating my opinion/approach......(the rest cut for brevity)


POTD
Mods here do a fine job, but this reply from Aaron O made this thread totally worth it.:beer:

[Keith A]

Is it possible to delete individual responses in a thread?
This might be another solution when someone injects a political statement or personal attack.Tony, yes we can delete individual responses...and very occasionally we do this. But in general, we don't like to delete something unless it is truly offensive as we don't want to get into the business of censoring the discussion that take place.

[CampyorBust]

And what issue is that?

However I found this….

“These are pretty insensitive to our members whose families were affected by the Holicaust.”

…Insulting.

As it ignores the suffering of millions, as if it didn’t happen. All the victims of Hitler.

Honestly I dont see what is so hard to understand here. Moreover if I posted anything that is offensive, please point it out.

And if personal WW2 credence is needed my great grandfather liberated concentration camps.

[oldpotatoe]

I think the mods do an admirable job with this place. I've submitted posts that got flagged and removed. It doesn't make me think they're censoring me. They have certain guidelines that they are trying to abide by, and it's a pretty thankless job.

Chapeau to the mods :beer:

I agree. Private entity and rules. Mods doing a good job. Out.

[Matthew]

I'm with the majority here. This is the best place to talk bikes on the net. The Mods, I feel do a great job. AN incredibly great group of diverse folks log on here. I wouldn't want it any other way.

[bikingshearer]

the free speech guaranteed by the U.S. first amendment limits what the government can do, it doesn't limit what the rest of us can do. And it doesn't guarantee that speech has no consequences.

+1,000. This is basic civics, folks. Everyone who was educated in the US should have learned this no later than high school.


The point I'm trying to make is that there is no one to question the judgment of the moderators; a moderator's word is delivered as if it were a sermon from the mount - that's what rubs me the wrong way.


No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to participate here. And absolutely nothing says you are entitled to have things here run just the way you want. If you do not like the way the mods run Paceline, you always have the option of leaving.

It seems to me that the mods here have a light hand. That goes along with my observation that Paceline posters almost always treat each other pretty darn well. If you don't agree or feel censored, fine. There are other cycling-related forums out there.

[CampyorBust]

I'm with the majority here. This is the best place to talk bikes on the net. The Mods, I feel do a great job. AN incredibly great group of diverse folks log on here. I wouldn't want it any other way.

Then I guess I too am with the majority, KEEP POLITICS OUT OF IT, once and for all pleeeeaaaassseee. My lord what a public lynching this turned out to be, how ironic.

[Aaron O]

[QUOTE=Aaron O;2119059]I'll chime in, as a Jewish guy. I am stating my opinion/approach......


POTD
Mods here do a fine job, but this reply from Aaron O made this thread totally worth it.:beer:

Glad someone thought it was worthwhile. I think we tend to use the mustache that may not be named as society's evil heel wrestler, who we get to feel good about booing. Others use his boogeyman status for shock value and as a rallying point...

Either way, I think it's a cop out, it's dishonest and it hides a multitude of sins. "Hitler/Germans bad!" Well...ok, but without support, this doesn't keep happening.

We are tribal by nature. Most of us are born to religions that teach "others" are so un-godly, and so un-forgiven, that they merit not just death...BUT RIGHTEOUS ETERNAL DAMNATION. Think about how dehumanizing that is...and then add it to our natural quasi-evolved tribal instincts.

There's a lot more at play than "AH BAD!"

[CampyorBust]

[QUOTE=C. Matthews;2119140]

Glad someone thought it was worthwhile. I think we tend to use the mustache that may not be named as society's evil heel wrestler, who we get to feel good about booing. Others use his boogeyman status for shock value and as a rallying point...

Either way, I think it's a cop out, it's dishonest and it hides a multitude of sins. "Hitler/Germans bad!" Well...ok, but without support, this doesn't keep happening.

We are tribal by nature. Most of us are born to religions that teach "others" are so un-godly, and so un-forgiven, that they merit not just death...BUT RIGHTEOUS ETERNAL DAMNATION. Think about how dehumanizing that is...and then add it to our natural quasi-evolved tribal instincts.

There's a lot more at play than "AH BAD!"

Aaron O, I agree with your post as well. Thanks for taking the time to write it. Yet like many others you fail to address what I take issue with. Which is that all of WW2 victims are victims of Hitler, not just Holocaust survivors. Russia lost 20+ million, Jews, Muslims, Christians and Atheists alike that’s where I am coming from.

This has always been a sore issue for me, every time I hear that it was the US who was responsible for winning WW2. This always pained me to hear, recently I found this American documentary from the 70s “The Unknown War” whose name itself underlines the American perspective of the war, and yet also shows that some do recognize the sacrifice of all the people who gave their lives and were targeted for extermination.

[Aaron O]

[QUOTE=Aaron O;2119166]

Aaron O, I agree with your post as well. Thanks for taking the time to write it. Yet like many others you fail to address what I take issue with. Which is that all of WW2 victims are victims of Hitler, not just Holocaust survivors. Russia lost 20+ million, Jews, Muslims, Christians and Atheists alike that’s where I am coming from.

This has always been a sore issue for me, every time I hear that it was the US who was responsible for winning WW2. This always pained me to hear, recently I found this American documentary from the 70s “The Unknown War” whose name itself underlines the American perspective of the war, and yet also shows that some do recognize the sacrifice of all the people who gave their lives and were targeted for extermination.
I strongly disagree with some of your synopsis from a historical perspective...and your lumping together of death by imperialism and death by genocidal mass murder. A Russian who starved to death because Stalin built tanks instead of tractors is not a victim of Hitler...nor was soviet expansionism much different than German, or US/Brit/French a century before. My point was that using "hitler" as the sole target of blame is simplistic and entirely too generous to Europeans as a whole.

The Germans, japanese, italians and russians were just later to the game, and most of the prizes had already been claimed (whether direct colony or by trade).

You are certainly correct in that the way we teach WW2 is patently silly; the germans lost in Russia. The russian perspective of them having shed the blood for western gains is not entirely without merit. Yugoslavia/Tito have also never gotten their due...and we make fun of the Poles, but they fought/resisted nobly. They were also genocidal SOBs, but that's another matter.

[earlfoss]

If you like more controversy, go across the hall. They play a little more loosely with the boundaries of taste. This can be a good thing, and a bad thing at times but it is what it is.

It's February and most of us are stuck inside with nothing better to do than start a fight online. There are better ways to express your cabin fever, but everyone has their own style.

[bironi]

If you like more controversy, go across the hall. They play a little more loosely with the boundaries of taste. This can be a good thing, and a bad thing at times but it is what it is.

It's February and most of us are stuck inside with nothing better to do than start a fight online. There are better ways to express your cabin fever, but everyone has their own style.

Not sure I agree with your statement about across the hall. I have been here since 2005 and there since 2008, and I walk between the two often. You may be correct if you consider the firewall between general discussion and off topic that exists across the hall from where we currently sit. There is maybe a bit more leash in their OT section than the OT here mixed in with the General Discussion, but I'm not certain either way. Both rooms give access to many knowledgeable people.

I'm in total agreement that people who like to get outside and ride bikes can get a bit grumpy in winter.

[CampyorBust]

I strongly disagree with some of your synopsis from a historical perspective...and your lumping together of death by imperialism and death by genocidal mass murder. A Russian who starved to death because Stalin built tanks instead of tractors is not a victim of Hitler...nor was soviet expansionism much different than German, or US/Brit/French a century before. My point was that using "hitler" as the sole target of blame is simplistic and entirely too generous to Europeans as a whole.

The Germans, japanese, italians and russians were just later to the game, and most of the prizes had already been claimed (whether direct colony or by trade).

You are certainly correct in that the way we teach WW2 is patently silly; the germans lost in Russia. The russian perspective of them having shed the blood for western gains is not entirely without merit. Yugoslavia/Tito have also never gotten their due...and we make fun of the Poles, but they fought/resisted nobly. They were also genocidal SOBs, but that's another matter.

Indeed we differ some in perspective. Are you saying Russians and other Slavs (origin of the word slave) were not targeted the same way as the Jews? They were not seen by Nazi doctors as a genetically inferior race, marked for extermination? There is plenty documentation of that. They weren’t hauled off to concentration camps? There weren’t mass graves strewn across Eastern Europe?

We are not talking about who is to blame, that is a separate issue. The blame lies all over the place. What we are talking about is victims not being recognized. And some victims being more equal than others. This is absurd.

I had a great Jewish teacher in 8th grade he later went on to help run the Holocaust Museum in DC. He taught the subject with a grace and eloquence I never saw again. He is my favorite teacher of all time, the guy was a rock star! He never made it an us vs them thing, oh some were victims more than others. He treated this subject with the delicacy it deserves. The bias re-writing of WW2 history is a recent trend of the information war that is most disturbing and very much on display in this thread and comment that started it.

As for Stalin I have written quite a lot on the man and painted paintings of the atrocities he brought to the Soviet people. That can be a thread on it own, but has no place on a cycling forum.

[93legendti]

I think the mods are top notch and do a great job. Thank you to each and every one of you.

[Tony T]

Tony, yes we can delete individual responses...and very occasionally we do this. But in general, we don't like to delete something unless it is truly offensive as we don't want to get into the business of censoring the discussion that take place.

But closing a thread is censorship (censorship of the discussion, and not the individual), and I'm not saying that you should not do this. Private Forum, you can do as you see fit. — I just think that maybe it would be better to delete the political post/personal insult with a PM to the participant with a reason/warning why his post was deleted.

I would rather see this than a thread being locked.

All IMHO, of course :)

[CampyorBust]

But closing a thread is censorship (censorship of the discussion, and not the individual), and I'm not saying that you should not do this. Private Forum, you can do as you see fit. — I just think that maybe it would be better to delete the political post/personal insult with a PM to the participant with a reason/warning why his post was deleted.

I would rather see this than a thread being locked.

All IMHO, of course :)

Tony T, I have yet to hear what I said that was offensive, or what I did that was against the rules. If you have an answer please do tell.

[Tony T]

Tony T, I have yet to hear what I said that was offensive, or what I did that was against the rules. If you have an answer please do tell.

I didn't find it offensive, but, it really doesn't matter as this is a private "club"
My comment was just my personal opinion as I've seen on more that one occasion a thread being locked due to one person using a loophole to stop a discussion that they may not like — I don't mind this being done by the moderators, but members should not hold this power by just saying "%&^$# you" to someone, or worse,
Trump

;)

[Bruce K]

I will try one more time

We have already asked that this Hitler video not be used here on the forum when other folks linked it with other narratives in the past.

Numerous members were uncomfortable/offended at those times we closed those threads as well.

Images or videos with Nazi references, KKK references, etc are generally offensive/insensitive to a significsnt group of folks and are better left off this forum.

Seems pretty straight forward

BK

[Tony T]

I will try one more time
We have already asked that this Hitler video not be used here on the forum when other folks linked it with other narratives in the past.


In all honesty, this was the first time I saw that type of meme posted here.
Had I been the one to have posted it today, personally, I would have preferred the thread being deleted and a PM explaining why.

Just my opinion.

[FlashUNC]

Wait people are still doing "funny" videos off that Hitler rant thing?

What's next, some Chuck Norris jokes?

Send the thread to the Phantom Zone for general lack of hilarity more than anything.

[Tony T]

Who's Chuck Norris?
(If he's a cyclecross racer, then that explains why I never head of him :))

[PQJ]

Sorry about this, I'll look and see what it takes to add this feature.

Thank you. I'm not a Facebooker at all but think it is a handy feature.

[CampyorBust]

Here you go have a good chuckle...

https://youtu.be/o_eSwq1ewsU

There are four lights!

[sjbraun]

Campyorbust wrote"

"As it ignores the suffering of millions, as if it didn’t happen. All the victims of Hitler."

Yup, lots of people died in the carnage Hitler unleashed on Europe. But dear lord, it was primarily Jews who were rounded up into camps and gassed. How do you not see that as different from those who died from the hell of WWII? Equating the systematic destruction of Jews with other casualties of war
equates them. And they just weren't the same.

PS- the mods do a great job.

[slidey]

Staunch Paceline supporters:
1. Invest time in reading differing responses before replying - saves both parties a lot of time.
2. Its easy to respond without forethought (System 1), i.e. go faith-based and dismiss an alternate view than it is to address a concern (especially if its a critique) without understanding it, you know like, "thank you to the mods for everything", "thankless job, it is a labour of love" - hence, do try to at least make the pretense of giving an alternate respectful view (like thank you to the mods for most things, but pull up your socks on the censorship front) some respect, I don't know, by perhaps reading in completion alternate views; sounds radical an idea!
3. For those of you offering me innovative ways of dividing up my precious time - thanks, I got this - I've made my choice, and you'd know that if you could just read my posts, oh I don't know, just in this thread perhaps?!.

[etu]

great cycling forum!
very reasonable moderators.
what is not to like?
faith from staunch supporters comes from having been around enough to how things work around here.
it's not blind faith.
have no problem with the "short leash" on politically sensitive topics.
i am sure the internet is rife with site where you can discuss that ad nauseum...

[josephr]

Campyorbust wrote"

"As it ignores the suffering of millions, as if it didn’t happen. All the victims of Hitler."

Yup, lots of people died in the carnage Hitler unleashed on Europe. But dear lord, it was primarily Jews who were rounded up into camps and gassed. How do you not see that as different from those who died from the hell of WWII? Equating the systematic destruction of Jews with other casualties of war
equates them. And they just weren't the same.

PS- the mods do a great job.

...the camps and ghettos were also for gypsies, mentally challenged, homosexuals, others that didn't fit... I've been through the Holocaust museum in DC twice and it disturbs me in so many ways. I don't think we'll ever understand how much hate there had to be for all of that.


PPSS- Blessed be the mods!

[rustychisel]

Staunch Paceline supporters:
1. Invest time in reading differing responses before replying - saves both parties a lot of time.
2. Its easy to respond without forethought (System 1), i.e. go faith-based and dismiss an alternate view than it is to address a concern (especially if its a critique) without understanding it, you know like, "thank you to the mods for everything", "thankless job, it is a labour of love" - hence, do try to at least make the pretense of giving an alternate respectful view (like thank you to the mods for most things, but pull up your socks on the censorship front) some respect, I don't know, by perhaps reading in completion alternate views; sounds radical an idea!
3. For those of you offering me innovative ways of dividing up my precious time - thanks, I got this - I've made my choice, and you'd know that if you could just read my posts, oh I don't know, just in this thread perhaps?!.


This. I like the mods and thank them - mostly - for the job they do. To those who didn't absorb the point, it's not an 'us and them' or 'go somewhere else' issue. It never was. I opine that the original thread as locked was dumbo and possibly in poor taste, but that's not the point either.

Mostly, thanks to all for keeping the responses civil. That's what makes this a great forum [that and the trove of knowledge shared here]. :beer:

[54ny77]

agree. just blow 'em out entirely, why bother locking a thread. this place is private, do what you want.

i'd venture the vast majority of folks here couldn't care less. it's always the vocal minority screaming over spilled milk, isn't it.

besides, those hitler things are really stupid. not sure if it's a sad or positive thing that the hitler/nazi era diluted to the point of a delivery mechanism for perceived comedy. i'm of the opinion that it's the former. "never forget," as the saying goes for some of us northeasters.

I will try one more time

We have already asked that this Hitler video not be used here on the forum when other folks linked it with other narratives in the past.

Numerous members were uncomfortable/offended at those times we closed those threads as well.

Images or videos with Nazi references, KKK references, etc are generally offensive/insensitive to a significsnt group of folks and are better left off this forum.

Seems pretty straight forward

BK

[Dave B]

If this has been addressed my apologies.

When a thread is locked as a result of poor taste, arguments, political stuff, etc. Why is it not deleted? If the comments turn ugly and personal I am not sure why we keep this stuff around?

Is there a larger purpose to have the thread remain?

[merlincustom1]

If this has been addressed my apologies.

When a thread is locked as a result of poor taste, arguments, political stuff, etc. Why is it not deleted? If the comments turn ugly and personal I am not sure why we keep this stuff around?

Is there a larger purpose to have the thread remain?

Yeah. We're adults. No problem with mods enforcing a certain taste level. We all signed on for that. That said, we don't need protection from stuff that offends us, and not everyone is offended by the same stuff. While this place isn't a free marketplace of ideas, there's no reason to close the store.

[fuzzalow]

If this has been addressed my apologies.

When a thread is locked as a result of poor taste, arguments, political stuff, etc. Why is it not deleted? If the comments turn ugly and personal I am not sure why we keep this stuff around?

Is there a larger purpose to have the thread remain?

No, leave it out there. The Mods do it right by not expurgating what might amount to a whole sorry mess. Leaving it public IMO creates accountability - if somebody's gonna be a jerk, leave it out there so that there is accountability right back to the source. I don't want the Mods to Stalin-revision anything I do here - I'm responsible and I'll take the hit. Don't put in place any features or practices that enable or encourage internet cowardice. That is how we keep this place civil.

[vav]

If this has been addressed my apologies.

When a thread is locked as a result of poor taste, arguments, political stuff, etc. Why is it not deleted? If the comments turn ugly and personal I am not sure why we keep this stuff around?

Is there a larger purpose to have the thread remain?

That's very 1984's Winston Smith ;)

[CampyorBust]

No, leave it out there. The Mods do it right by not expurgating what might amount to a whole sorry mess. Leaving it public IMO creates accountability - if somebody's gonna be a jerk, leave it out there so that there is accountability right back to the source. I don't want the Mods to Stalin-revision anything I do here - I'm responsible and I'll take the hit. Don't put in place any features or practices that enable or encourage internet cowardice. That is how we keep this place civil.

Déjà vu. I was wondering if you were going to go there fuzzalow. You are going to need to be a little more specific, for that can be interpreted as a veiled threat. Not the first time I heard talk like this from you. What exactly is it that you take issue with?

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/PedalPusher33/Screen_shot_zpsngvdsejp.jpg

[merlincustom1]

Aaron O gets it at #45.

Hitler for some reason is the third rail. I bet some who find the Hitler meme vids not funny may laugh at Mel Brooks's The Producers. Go figure as to what is off-putting to people. This is why the mods have a tough job, and my hat's off to them.

[Keith A]

Déjà vu. I was wondering if you were going to go there fuzzalow. You are going to need to be a little more specific, for that can be interpreted as a veiled threat. Not the first time I heard talk like this from you. What exactly is it that you take issue with?
Please don't make this discussion a tit for tat :no:

[Dave B]

That's very 1984's Winston Smith ;)

Yeah, didn't mean to channel him, but as a teacher my world stereotypically has very few shades of grey. No excuses on my end, I guess I have a hard time letting things go and some folks here often take a beating. Just feels odd to me, but the points made and what Fuzz said does make a heck of a good point.

Thanks boys, as always love this joint and fraternity.


Mods, good on you.

[CampyorBust]

Please don't make this discussion a tit for tat :no:

How?

Kieth, I am perfectly content to let this go, I was after my initial thread was closed. Another thread was created and I came to play on their playing field. I made my position perfectly clear, many times. For the most part it is being ignored, everything is being blown way out of proportion and spun into something it is not. Now people are saying something unspeakable was done for which punishment is in order, or something to that effect. I am simply trying to understand was it I that did something wrong and what was it? What am I missing here?

If you feel it necessary to close this thread or nuke it, you have my blessing, but I did not create this thread.

[vav]

Yeah, didn't mean to channel him, but as a teacher my world stereotypically has very few shades of grey. No excuses on my end, I guess I have a hard time letting things go and some folks here often take a beating. Just feels odd to me, but the points made and what Fuzz said does make a heck of a good point.

Thanks boys, as always love this joint and fraternity.


Mods, good on you.

No worries. I teach middle school too :beer:

[Keith A]

How?

Kieth, I am perfectly content to let this go, I was after my initial thread was closed. Another thread was created and I came to play on their playing field. I made my position perfectly clear, many times. For the most part it is being ignored and everything is being blown way out of proportion. Now people are saying something unspeakable was done for which punishment is in order, or something to that effect. I am simply trying to understand was it I that did something wrong and what was it? What am I missing here?

If you feel it necessary to close this thread or nuke it, you have my blessing, but I did not create this thread.By trying to cause a reaction from another forum member...
Déjà vu. I was wondering if you were going to go there fuzzalow. You are going to need to be a little more specific, for that can be interpreted as a veiled threat. Not the first time I heard talk like this from you. What exactly is it that you take issue with?

There is already enough fuel in this fire that we don't need anyone taunting someone else.

[fuzzalow]

By trying to cause a reaction from another forum member...

There is already enough fuel in this fire that we don't need anyone taunting someone else.

No worries Keith.

I made my point in my earlier post as cogently (HA!) as habitual and that is that. Hey, whaddaya think sounds good for lunch today? HaHa! My most important decision of the day.:o

[mg2ride]

I think the Hilter videos are often funny

I think the Mods are free delete them or anything else as they see fit

I think the people that often claim to be offended really aren't

I think Political Correctness does more harm than good

I think as soon as anyone compares Trump to Hilter I will be VERY offended

I think(actually I know) Lance won 7 TDFs

I think I will go get an Asian massage:beer:

[CampyorBust]

By trying to cause a reaction from another forum member...

There is already enough fuel in this fire that we don't need anyone taunting someone else.

Kieth,

With all due respect how is this ok..

Leaving it public IMO creates accountability - if somebody's gonna be a jerk, leave it out there so that there is accountability right back to the source.

That is a personal attack on an unspecified poster or posters and implies there will be repercussions for who knows what also not specified. How is that ok?

I am asking him to clarify his statement, as I feel threatened by it. I have a reason to be, I have seen it before provided in the screenshot from the very same poster and experienced certain unpleasantries after that.

Like I said in the second post I am not trying to start anything, the same can't be said for other posters on this thread. IMHO of course.

[Elefantino]

I think there are a lot of people on this forum who need to go for a ride.

[Mr. Squirrel]

I think there are a lot of people on this forum who need to go for a ride.

dear mr elefanto,

i shall take umbrage with your comment! there are more than people who inhabit this forum. are you implying squirrels should not enjoy a ride? people are nuts!

mr. squirrel

[biker72]

I think there are a lot of people on this forum who need to go for a ride.

Excellent idea. I think I'll do just that.
I think the mods need a pay raise after this thread.....:)

[Keith A]

CampyorBust, et al:

In general, we try to avoid deleting individual posts or entire message discussions. Not that this does not happen, but we try to let what people have stated stay visible to all.

There are times when posts or entire discussions are removed. Sometimes this is from a request by a forum member and other times we feel, after discussion amongst the moderators, that something should be removed.

We will NOT edit individual posts to remove part of or modify the content. If there is a real problem with a post, then we will remove the entire post, but we won't edit it.

We do our best to try and keep the peace around here and let discussions run their course if possible. When a moderator does step in to control a situation, we strive to let everyone know why and what the issue is.

Finally, we do have a lawyer that we consult with and who provides counsel to us...and we have discussed at length the whole issue of censorship.

[William]

dear mr elefanto,

i shall take umbrage with your comment! there are more than people who inhabit this forum. are you implying squirrels should not enjoy a ride? people are nuts!

mr. squirrel

Keep angry Mr. Rodent, keep angry! :p



:)
William

[soulspinner]

Just to throw in my experience here, the one time I threw a hissy fit about a closed thread, Nick responded nearly immediately and satisfied my objection(s). Cant ask for more. I love this place, have been here since 2003 and have seen many I like leave. I think overall, with the wide range of personalities and occaisional trolling these mods do a great job. Ride more, keep the rubber down.....cheers:beer:

Dennis

[slidey]

Can you mods just stop playing minority report on thread censorship? Haven't you guys picked up anything from this thread? What kind of a hubris-filled closing statement is this (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2120545&postcount=5) from specifically, gasman, in the "Not a political thread"!

"There's no way this won't go downhill" - really??!!! How in the blazes were you ordained with this foresight, O Lord Gasman? Other mods: Nearly 12 hours since, you people haven't yet had the gumption to open up the thread. So, am I to assume that you all have digestive-juices driven synchronized crystal balls to predict the forum's future?

Enforcement without any proof - yet again - you mods really can deliver on thread censorship. Kudos to you all for a stellar job, and labour of love, and thankless effort, and all that!

Now, time to shut this one down too - seems about the MO on here.

[Dead Man]

Can you mods just stop playing minority report on thread censorship? Haven't you guys picked up anything from this thread? What kind of a hubris-filled closing statement is this (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2120545&postcount=5) from specifically, gasman, in the "Not a political thread"!

"There's no way this won't go downhill" - really??!!! How in the blazes were you ordained with this foresight, O Lord Gasman? Other mods: Nearly 12 hours since, you people haven't yet had the gumption to open up the thread. So, am I to assume that you all have digestive-juices driven synchronized crystal balls to predict the forum's future?

Enforcement without any proof - yet again - you mods really can deliver on thread censorship. Kudos to you all for a stellar job, and labour of love, and thankless effort, and all that!

Now, time to shut this one down too - seems about the MO on here.

It's just not that big a deal, man.

[Tony T]

Can you mods just stop playing minority report on thread censorship? Haven't you guys picked up anything from this thread? What kind of a hubris-filled closing statement is this (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2120545&postcount=5) from specifically, gasman, in the "Not a political thread"!


It had the word "political" in it.
Oh My! Now this one does too!! :crap:

[Mr. Squirrel]

Can you mods just stop playing minority report on thread censorship? Haven't you guys picked up anything from this thread? What kind of a hubris-filled closing statement is this (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2120545&postcount=5) from specifically, gasman, in the "Not a political thread"!

"There's no way this won't go downhill" - really??!!! How in the blazes were you ordained with this foresight, O Lord Gasman? Other mods: Nearly 12 hours since, you people haven't yet had the gumption to open up the thread. So, am I to assume that you all have digestive-juices driven synchronized crystal balls to predict the forum's future?

Enforcement without any proof - yet again - you mods really can deliver on thread censorship. Kudos to you all for a stellar job, and labour of love, and thankless effort, and all that!

Now, time to shut this one down too - seems about the MO on here.

https://media.giphy.com/media/tLql6mMHC6wvK/giphy.gif


nuts!

mr. squirrel

[54ny77]

It is official, it's middle of winter.

Some of you's must be real fun at parties, getting every last word in edgewise. :p

[Bruce K]

We have repeatedly asked folks to avoid political topics here.

Experience has shown they generally devolve into name calling flame fests.

We received multiple requests to shut down the "not political" thread and we did.

Our User Agreement sticky us pretty clear and at times we have allowed threads to go probably longer than they should.

This is first, and foremost a bicycling centered forum. We, as a moderator group, and at the request of membership, and given the current political climate, are going to be more active in curtailing political discussion here.

If you want to talk politics, please take it elsewhere.

BK

[Tony T]

Can you mods just stop playing minority report on thread censorship?

This forum akin to a private club.
The rules can say "no discussion about oranges"
This would be a rule.
It's not censorship.

[zmudshark]

http://i.imgur.com/M8lzCUM.jpg

[gasman]

It's February . Let's go ride our bikes and keep our discussions about bikes.

It's fine to go off topic as there are a lot of great minds here but please let's stay away from politics.

Thanks everyone.

[Red Tornado]

1697934226
Feeling the same way about this thread.

[kevinvc]

This is a pretty strong community to a lot of folks who read or post regularly. As such, it is understandable that a lot of OT threads are started as a way to share thoughts, feelings and experiences outside the world of riding bikes. Right now, emotions are running high for a lot of folks as a result of the election and current political climate. It is only natural that some would want to share their thoughts with our on-line friends here at the Paceline.

All that said, the no politics rule is probably a good one overall. Yes, it cuts out the ability to talk about some issues that are relevant in many of our lives. But I can't think of a single internet forum I've visited that is able to maintain calm respectful discussions in regards to politics.

I assume that allowing those threads here would lead to some tribalism that would make SRAM / Shimano / Campy allegiances look mild. :D are

There are plenty of places to verbally fling poo at others. I'm glad I can come here and not have to worry about dodging it.

For now, I'm going to go back to watching the rain and slush coming down and wishing I could go for a ride.

Cheers, mods. You keep this a civil and enjoyable place. :beer:

[mbrtool]

Yes, what Kevin said; wish I were more articulate so I could contribute more to the discussions.
Ray