Anyone ridden both a CAAD12 and first gen EVO?

[BLD 25]

Just curious if anyone can compare the first gen(2012-2015) EVO supersix to a caad12.

I have owned a Caad10, and also a CAAD9 has been my setup the last couple years. I recently went to a NOS 2014 EVO that I got on a great deal, and I am just not blown away as much as I was hoping. Was the CAAD9 just that good? I enjoyed running wide tires and could fit up to a 31mm(28c 4000s) tire on the back. I lost about 3/4lb on the swap with the same parts, but I can't fit wide tires anymore. Just curious if aluminum and wider tires beats carbon and narrower tires.

I am one of those people who unfortunately will never enjoy anything because I analyze it too much! :crap:

If the aluminum is that good, just thinking maybe someday I will sell the EVO and pick up a caad12 frame. I have only been on about 3 rides, so I guess I shouldn't say yet! :)

[Bwana]

I know this is not exactly what you're looking for, but cyclingtips just posted this last night:

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/01/cannondale-caad12-vs-supersix-evo-hi-mod-road-disc-bike-comparison-review/

[54ny77]

I happen to have a CAAD9 and other more high tech carbon bikes (a Parlee Z5 for example) and I'll offer up that yes, the CAAD9 really is that good. Great wheels and tires will make any frame sing, provided you fit the frame nicely or even reasonably.

[GregL]

I have to join the CAAD9 fan club too. My CAAD9 is my go-to bike. I've ridden lugged steel, TIG welded steel, bonded aluminum, welded aluminum, mixed materials, and carbon. The CAAD9 is just a great riding bike. I'll be building up a CAAD10 soon and I'm looking forward to see how it matches up.

Greg

[beeatnik]

CAAD12 is stiffer.

[54ny77]

If it's 40% stiffer than the previous year's 11 model, assuming similar progression since the 9, it should be about 319% stiffer. That must be hell on the choppers.

https://media.giphy.com/media/8zSLvwlVtPzWg/giphy.gif

CAAD12 is stiffer.

[texbike]

If it's 40% stiffer than the previous year's 11 model, assuming similar progression since the 9, it should be about 319% stiffer. That must be hell on the choppers.

https://media.giphy.com/media/8zSLvwlVtPzWg/giphy.gif

There wasn't an 11, so it should be fine. ;)

Texbike

[BLD 25]

I know this is not exactly what you're looking for, but cyclingtips just posted this last night:

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/01/cannondale-caad12-vs-supersix-evo-hi-mod-road-disc-bike-comparison-review/

interesting read.

[Davist]

I went from a CAAD 10 to the evo, so close. I have the evo that only takes "skinny" 25s, like yours (mine is now a '15 replacement, for a '14 that wore out the chainstays on "regular" 25s / archetypes). Interestingly, between '14 and '15 they changed bb standards. grr

The difference can really only be felt on a longer ride, you just end up less fatigued on the evo. There is / was a difference in fork offset, so that handling is slightly quicker on the evo as well.

The new "wide chainstay" evos ride a bit better, but mostly have the room for 28+ on just about any wheel. Oh and the new wide tire evo has yet another bb standard, which to me is ridonkulous.

I sold my caad 10 and got a Scott gravel bike for winter. I may sell my evo and get some souped up "road" wheels for the gravel bike for summer.

[BLD 25]

I went from a CAAD 10 to the evo, so close. I have the evo that only takes "skinny" 25s, like yours (mine is now a '15 replacement, for a '14 that wore out the chainstays on "regular" 25s / archetypes). Interestingly, between '14 and '15 they changed bb standards. grr

The difference can really only be felt on a longer ride, you just end up less fatigued on the evo. There is / was a difference in fork offset, so that handling is slightly quicker on the evo as well.

The new "wide chainstay" evos ride a bit better, but mostly have the room for 28+ on just about any wheel. Oh and the new wide tire evo has yet another bb standard, which to me is ridonkulous.

I sold my caad 10 and got a Scott gravel bike for winter. I may sell my evo and get some souped up "road" wheels for the gravel bike for summer.
good feedback. I suppose I can always sell the EVO, as they probably keep decent value. I just expected a really big jump, but my 15.5lb CAAD9 was a pretty good bike i guess!

[Ralph]

I have a CAAD 10. Running Campy Zonda (stiff) wheels with 700X23 tires. (Michelin Pro 4 SC on front and Endurance on rear). I weigh about 155 and usually run about 90-95 in front, and 100-105 in rear. Very smooth roads around here....for the most part. Just love riding this CAAD 10. For the money especially....can't beat it.

I will say....This past weekend was on some real rough breaking up pavement for a few miles, and wished I was on my steel frame with softer riding wheels. Other than that.....outstanding frame. I'm considering the new wider Zonda's for 700X25's, or just put 700X25's on Zonda's I ride now at lower pressure. That should fix the rough pavement deal.

You can spend a lot more than a CAAD 9, 10, or 12 etc, but you won't get a lot more. I had a CAAD 5 and 7 I really liked. Had a CAAD 3 that beat me to death. Much improvement since then.

[BLD 25]

It is funny how some of us don't feel a whole lot different, but when you read the bike mags, it is a different story. How they can tell a big difference between an Evo and SL5 or Madone boggles me. Oh well, the EVO is nice and I don't have to decide right away if I am keeping it or selling it.

[54ny77]

I would venture either:

a) Testers ride a LOT (just miles in general, regardless of bike) and can detect nuance better than most folks. When I rode a metric s&^#! ton, I could detect the slightest adjustment in saddle or cleat or even the feeling of bar tape thickness.

or

b) Press releases are internalized and regurgitated. :p


It is funny how some of us don't feel a whole lot different, but when you read the bike mags, it is a different story. How they can tell a big difference between an Evo and SL5 or Madone boggles me. Oh well, the EVO is nice and I don't have to decide right away if I am keeping it or selling it.

[ceolwulf]

It is funny how some of us don't feel a whole lot different, but when you read the bike mags, it is a different story. How they can tell a big difference between an Evo and SL5 or Madone boggles me. Oh well, the EVO is nice and I don't have to decide right away if I am keeping it or selling it.

That's what I found most interesting about the Cycling Tips comparison test mentioned above - the lengths he had to go to to find enough difference to write about.

Now I wish I could find a similar comparison for more endurance oriented bikes, like aluminum vs. carbon Synapse or BMC GF02 aluminum vs. GF01.

[rustychisel]

That's what I found most interesting about the Cycling Tips comparison test mentioned above - the lengths he had to go to to find enough difference to write about.

Now I wish I could find a similar comparison for more endurance oriented bikes, like aluminum vs. carbon Synapse or BMC GF02 aluminum vs. GF01.

Yeah, agreed. Nothing to offer the OP, but that 'review' is *****e. Repackaged marketing spin is lazy writing, full stop.

[kramnnim]

Might be a difference between the Evo and Evo himod...

[BLD 25]

Possibly, but If a huge difference isn't detected between an older aluminum and mid-high end carbon, i doubt I would feel much difference in different grades of carbon.

The EVO is awesome, don't get me wrong, it just didn't blow me away like I thought it would. I guess it is good to know I wasn't missing out in a way I thought I was!

[Mark McM]

Some of the copy in the Cycling Tips review that was linked are quite telling. I've bolded some of the pertinent bits:

Cannondale claims the CAAD12 offers an impressive 36% increase in compliance at the saddle when compared to the CAAD10. A switch from a 27.2mm seatpost diameter to 25.4mm provides most of the comfort along with some thinning of the top tube and the seatstays.

We know that seatposts don't flex much. But if the majority of the increase in compliance was due to just changing the diameter of the seatpost, that shows that the frame itself has very, very little compliance.


The company revisited the SuperSix EVO for 2016 — this time without the help of Denk, who had moved on to establish his own composites consultancy — and managed a variety of refinements. These included a 21% increase in the compliance of the fork, 36% increase in saddle deflection (the bike inherited that same 25.4mm seatpost diameter as the CAAD12), and an extra 15% vertical deflection was added to the rear triangle.

If the same seatpost change increased compliance at the saddle the same amount on the carbon frame as it did on the aluminum frame, that means that the carbon frame started with essentially the same compliance as the aluminum frame - and that neither frame has much compliance to begin with.


Hopefully, we've moved past the days when manufacturers make claims that one frame is more comfortable than another, simply because of differences in material or tube selection, when we all know all know these claims are largely hand waving.

[dton]

Continuing on the trend of providing information that isn't exactly what you requested...

I don't have any direct experience with your generation EVO but I have a CAAD12 w/ Belgium+'s.

Based on my research and anecdotal experience, the CAAD12 is: Probably just as compliant on the same set of wheels, definitely not as stiff as the EVO (I can get FD chain rub quite easily).

I didn't go with the EVO for the exact reason that it can't fit wide tires in the back and I've been more than happy with my CAAD12. The biggest downside is the lack of proper BB30a adapters. Given the alu BB shell, I don't think most thread together BB's will work. There are some good quality 24mm adaptor BB's from Kogel and C-bear though. This is something you definitely need to keep in mind if you want to switch.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I've owned a CAAD12 and a 2014 Evo standard mod. Owned them simultaneously, rode them with similar builds and the same wheelset and tires.

Honestly, if I'd been blindfolded while riding, I'd not have been able to tell you which bike I were on.


I could potentially convince myself to say that at the end of one hundred miles on less than ideal road surfaces that I'd feel a bit less fatigued on the Evo. Maybe. Other than that, they were pretty close to the same weight, no real notice in difference of stiffness - even Cannondale was reporting that the CAAD10 was stiffer than the first gen Evo in some testing.

The CAAD12 was a great bike, it was comfortable enough for a race geo bike - noticeably more so than a CAAD10, IMHO.

Other than the ability to run 28s, you won't gain anything from jumping to the CAAD12. But you also won't loose anything. Except the annoying new bottom bracket standard which is limiting in crank suggestion. BB30a(and PF30a) are different and the really clever bottom brackets like Praxis and Wheelsmfg threaded BBs don't exist for it, at least not the last time I looked.


If we were talking the newer evo or the previous generation himod, or especially the new generation himod, then yes there are some differences that one might be able to notice more overtly.

[BLD 25]

Some of the copy in the Cycling Tips review that was linked are quite telling. I've bolded some of the pertinent bits:



We know that seatposts don't flex much. But if the majority of the increase in compliance was due to just changing the diameter of the seatpost, that shows that the frame itself has very, very little compliance.




If the same seatpost change increased compliance at the saddle the same amount on the carbon frame as it did on the aluminum frame, that means that the carbon frame started with essentially the same compliance as the aluminum frame - and that neither frame has much compliance to begin with.


Hopefully, we've moved past the days when manufacturers make claims that one frame is more comfortable than another, simply because of differences in material or tube selection, when we all know all know these claims are largely hand waving.
Interesting thoughts. I actually disagree with the lack of seatpost flex. I have a carbon post on my CX bike which is set up for trainer duty now. I can look down while riding and see more than a few mm of flex, and I would assume that a smaller diameter seatpost would flex more.

I do agree with you on the hype part though!

[BLD 25]

Continuing on the trend of providing information that isn't exactly what you requested...

I don't have any direct experience with your generation EVO but I have a CAAD12 w/ Belgium+'s.

Based on my research and anecdotal experience, the CAAD12 is: Probably just as compliant on the same set of wheels, definitely not as stiff as the EVO (I can get FD chain rub quite easily).

I didn't go with the EVO for the exact reason that it can't fit wide tires in the back and I've been more than happy with my CAAD12. The biggest downside is the lack of proper BB30a adapters. Given the alu BB shell, I don't think most thread together BB's will work. There are some good quality 24mm adaptor BB's from Kogel and C-bear though. This is something you definitely need to keep in mind if you want to switch.

I've owned a CAAD12 and a 2014 Evo standard mod. Owned them simultaneously, rode them with similar builds and the same wheelset and tires.

Honestly, if I'd been blindfolded while riding, I'd not have been able to tell you which bike I were on.


I could potentially convince myself to say that at the end of one hundred miles on less than ideal road surfaces that I'd feel a bit less fatigued on the Evo. Maybe. Other than that, they were pretty close to the same weight, no real notice in difference of stiffness - even Cannondale was reporting that the CAAD10 was stiffer than the first gen Evo in some testing.

The CAAD12 was a great bike, it was comfortable enough for a race geo bike - noticeably more so than a CAAD10, IMHO.

Other than the ability to run 28s, you won't gain anything from jumping to the CAAD12. But you also won't loose anything. Except the annoying new bottom bracket standard which is limiting in crank suggestion. BB30a(and PF30a) are different and the really clever bottom brackets like Praxis and Wheelsmfg threaded BBs don't exist for it, at least not the last time I looked.


If we were talking the newer evo or the previous generation himod, or especially the new generation himod, then yes there are some differences that one might be able to notice more overtly.

Thank you both for the feedback. To meet if I can go to the caad12 from my Evo and not gain weight, stay as comfortable, fit larger tires,not worry about crashes, and probably not lose money then that would be good. Now for someone to trade their red caad12 for my EVO.....