Question on shipping and PayPal

[sokyroadie]

A forumite wants to buy a wheelset I have for sale, we agreed on a price and he paypaled the funds. The address (USA) is non verified and he wanted a value of $128.00 USD vs the $400.00 selling price listed. It turns out he is in Malaysia.

I refunded his money and told him the only way I would ship is if he sent as Friends and Family (I Know) which would be safe from my end. It turns out that is not an option in Malaysia:
"Unfortunately it is not available for paypal Malaysia. It was discontinued since 2013 after Paypal Singapore took off the option."

He has now agreed to me sending at the $400.00 value - I am thinking that would be safe from my end since shipping (bikeflights) with insurance would be to a US address and they would be responsible if it is lost. I would ship with signature required.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
Jeff

[purpurite]

Not worth the risk, unless others here can vouch. Sounds like textbook scam to me.

[tuscanyswe]

Just for the record.

1. A paypal user not in the USA can not be verified according to paypal regardless of what they do.. This applies to me as well even tho i sent bills and passport images to paypal and have had countless transactions with no issues ever. Im still not verified.. and can't be unless they change the rules.

2. It isent possible to send friends and family transactions without a fee via paypal across continents (possibly even countries). I can't even send it fee free to my actual brother in NYC.. Paypal probably has this as a safety measure of some sort i would imagine. To clarify: I can use the friends and family option just it still involves the fees..

So the issues here is perhaps that the seller first said his adress was in USA when infact it turned out it was in malaysia when it was time to ship?

The 2nd thing would be that he wants a lower value but i sometimes ask for this as well as we have an approximate import and vat duty of 33% on listed value. It ads up and not so strange for someone try to minimize that cost.

Id ship to malaysia, i probably have actually but only to ppl who seemed legit of course.. Good feedback on ebay? or forum known etc..

[sokyroadie]

So the issues here is perhaps that the seller first said his adress was in USA when infact it turned out it was in malaysia when it was time to ship?

The 2nd thing would be that he wants a lower value but i sometimes ask for this as well as we have an approximate import and vat duty of 33% on listed value. It ads up and not so strange for someone try to minimize that cost.

Id ship to malaysia, i probably have actually but only to ppl who seemed legit of course.. Good feedback on ebay? or forum known etc..

I would be shipping to the US so as long as I insure for the actual value I think I am OK.

Thanks,
Jeff

[ultraman6970]

The biggest problem with sendint to malasya via USPS is that they dont scan the stuff all the time so you wont be sure what happened with the stuff after left the country. I got hosed years ago with an item because they did not scan it, guys alleged he did not get the item so i lost it, did he lie? no clue. Since that day I only asian country I send stuff is Japan.

THat said, you are going to use bike flights, they use a currier, maybe dhl or fedex, they will track that box till is delivered... do not use usps because you never know if the box will be tracked at the destination country and in some countries they are really sloppy about that, if the dude wants to allege he did not get the item because was not scanned... u know...

[sokyroadie]

Since some people don't read::crap: :D

I would be sending to a USA address that is not PayPal verified- not sending to Malaysia - the buyer is in Malaysia and will handle shipping from the US.

Jeff

[ultraman6970]

Hmmmm....Are you telling me that u won't be sending to Malasya then? :D

[Black Dog]

1st off using friends and family is a direct violation of the Paceline rules on classified purchases, please avoid. If the buyer wants you to ship to a us address then go ahead, it is the buyers problem to go from there. I would make sure that you have tracking and get a signature on the other end. Better yet have the buyer send you a certified cheque and once it has cleared with your bank (i.e. not a forged cheque) then send him the item.

[Black Dog]

Just for the record.

1. A paypal user not in the USA can not be verified according to paypal regardless of what they do.. This applies to me as well even tho i sent bills and passport images to paypal and have had countless transactions with no issues ever. Im still not verified.. and can't be unless they change the rules.

2. It isent possible to send friends and family transactions without a fee via paypal across continents (possibly even countries). I can't even send it fee free to my actual brother in NYC.. Paypal probably has this as a safety measure of some sort i would imagine. To clarify: I can use the friends and family option just it still involves the fees..

So the issues here is perhaps that the seller first said his adress was in USA when infact it turned out it was in malaysia when it was time to ship?

The 2nd thing would be that he wants a lower value but i sometimes ask for this as well as we have an approximate import and vat duty of 33% on listed value. It ads up and not so strange for someone try to minimize that cost.

Id ship to malaysia, i probably have actually but only to ppl who seemed legit of course.. Good feedback on ebay? or forum known etc..

Canada is the exception to this. I have a verified Canadian address.

[djdj]

Not saying anyone here is doing this, and this may be a bit OT, but I've never understood why anyone would want to try to scam around paypal fees, duties, etc. If you deal with people who want to do that, you deserve to get scammed yourself.

[Jgrooms]

He was most likely trying to avoid import duty. That amt probably fell below some amount.

Scam? If you were paid & were simply asked to list a lower value how would you be scammed? BTW, I've shipped numerous items with 'values' less than sale.

You have protection when you purchase w paypal IF you use the goods & services as is proper. So keep that in mind when you are cheating the service out of their fee. When your high dollar wheels show up & they aren't high dollar wheels & the seller goes poof, you have no recourse to hit him with paypal.


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[godfrey1112000]

I have the same problem with my Nigerian friends

[tigoat]

I have sold bike stuff all the time to people across the pond but shipped them to a US shipping broker chosen by the buyer. I have never had a problem with this method of transaction.

[Jgrooms]

Not saying anyone here is doing this, and this may be a bit OT, but I've never understood why anyone would want to try to scam around paypal fees, duties, etc. If you deal with people who want to do that, you deserve to get scammed yourself.



The duty is different than skirting the pp fee.

Duties are setup for producers of products to pay in an effort to make domestic products more attractive. How parties determine the value of a used item is up to them. If one feels this is ethically wrong, then one should ask up front with someone if there will be a declared duty fee & discuss before determining to sell.

And make sure you pay all the tax on things you buy over the internet when filing your taxes this year as well [emoji56]


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[tuscanyswe]

The duty is different than skirting the pp fee.

Duties are setup for producers of products to pay in an effort to make domestic products more attractive. How parties determine the value of a used item is up to them. If one feels this is ethically wrong, then one should ask up front with someone if there will be a declared duty fee & discuss before determining to sell.

And make sure you pay all the tax on things you buy over the internet when filing your taxes this year as well [emoji56]


+1 i mean do someone really deserve to be ripped of because they think its unreasonable that a government wants 30% of a sale for used bikegear sold by private parties across continents? Or the ppl who deals with them even?

US government does not even feel the need to collect vat nore import duties even on NEW stuff from BUSINESSES valued less than 800$, just sayin..

[dustyrider]

Why can't the US address be verified? I have sold a few things to overseas customers who use a USA forwarding service. They were able to get the address verfied through PayPal.

[yngpunk]

Why can't the US address be verified? I have sold a few things to overseas customers who use a USA forwarding service. They were able to get the address verfied through PayPal.

I think it means that its not the paypal account owners verified address. For example, if I pay with paypal but ask to ship to an alternative address (e.g. not the billing address) then that address shows up as un-verified. Doesn't mean that the address is not legitimate. Getting address verified can be a pain at times

[djdj]

+1 i mean do someone really deserve to be ripped of because they think its unreasonable that a government wants 30% of a sale for used bikegear sold by private parties across continents? Or the ppl who deals with them even?

US government does not even feel the need to collect vat nore import duties even on NEW stuff from BUSINESSES valued less than 800$, just sayin..

My point, in part, is that if you deal with someone you don't know who is obviously trying to skirt the law ("hey, let's pretend the value is less than actual value, ok?" "list the payment as gift, ok?"), don't be surprised if that person tries to skirt the law with you -- by not paying or otherwise treating you shabbily. That person may be right as rain in "other" contexts, but how do you know?

The other part of my point was about ethics, which is a debate for another day.