Serotta frame - this geo cant be right?

[AngryScientist]

can it?

53 square and look like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Serotta-Classique-Ti-53-cm-TT-53cm-ST-2010-Titanium-Frame-/222387321861?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/awYAAOSw4DJYhuC~/s-l1200.jpg

[MRB]

Measured in inches? :)

[sandyrs]

Plausible with an extremely sloping tt?

[ColonelJLloyd]

I'm with you, 53x53 doesn't sound right with what's presented.

Plausible with an extremely sloping tt?

But, if you look at the rear triangle it would seem this bike has a level (or close to it) TT. Maybe not, but it doesn't seem to be anything like 6d either.

[tuscanyswe]

The TT looks level to you? I think you may need to get out of bed .)

Its plausible the effective tt is still not more than 53 with a really big slope.

[ColonelJLloyd]

The TT looks level to you? I think you may need to get out of bed .)

Its plausible the effective tt is still not more than 53 with a really big slope.

I suppose not, but when you raise the rear triangle. . .I guess it has to have some slope still.

[AngryScientist]

Serotta made some damned fine bikes over the years, but they made some seriously whacked out stuff too.

[tuscanyswe]

I suppose not, but when you raise the rear triangle. . .

Its very hard to tell slope from pics I'm with ya there i just think this one looks very sloped compared to say below pic of a level tt colnago frame.

[nooneline]

It's not square. It's got a 53cm top tube and a 56.5 seat tube. The long seat tube and short top tube combo always leads to longer-than-normal headtubes.

[ColonelJLloyd]

True.

[tuscanyswe]

It's not square. It's got a 53cm top tube and a 56.5 seat tube. The long seat tube and short top tube combo always leads to longer-than-normal headtubes.

its 53 cm seattube center to center according to the ebay ad with an effective tt of 53 cm.
And why would long seat tubes with short top tubes lead to longer than normal head tubes? There is no correlation here is there? Other than this particular frame has a long headtube?

[cachagua]

If that's a fifty three, I'm Wilt Chamberlain.

[benb]

Pictures can be deceiving but I'd find it easier to believe that bike was a 59 then a 53, it looks big, maybe just cause of the giant head tube.

My Serotta was essentially 59x59 and the head tube was smaller then that! And it was built for a very modest drop!

[stien]

Made for smaller wheels?

Edit: ad says 56 CTT seat tube.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Yeah, a 53cm effective TT, 6d slope, 367mm A-C and that HT extension above the TT would end up looking that way I reckon. With 700c tires TCO on that thing is probably pretty terrible.

[ultraman6970]

I think the measures are really close to what the guys says the problem is that the front tube is so stupidly big that makes the frame pretty much not usable but the guy that was made for. That probably was a t-rex or maybe a dude even older than a t-rex that couldn't bend at all. Or a guy that payed serotta a lot for a bike the way he wanted and the bike ended up like that.

Doubt it will sell, unfittable frame. I do get that custom means custom but heck, from custom to clowny looking because maybe a guy wants it like that well... btw this is not the 1st time that frame is for sale. Time for a new guy to get stuck with that?

The master builder that built all my bikes wouldn't even bother building such a thing no matter how much money the guy offered to him. He was going to do a suggestion between reasonable parameters but "I want this clowny thing and i have no idea about bicycles" people was heading straight out of the door. And I saw stuff built from 45 cm all the way to 66. So is not that he was being difficult either.

[bobswire]

Just throw on some 12" wheels you'll be fine.

[Big Dan]

I would be careful with some of those "custom" Serottas.
Crazy stuff.

[happycampyer]

Those who think that Serotta was the only custom builder that built frames like these, guess again. I have seen Parlees, Sevens, Mootss and others--even a Pegoretti or two--with similar geometry. And the customers who went to Serotta for frames like this bitd are still out there, buying frames just like this from other builders today.

The headtube could probably be cut down by at least 2cm, which would make it closer to "normal."

[ultraman6970]

Even if you cut that neck you end up with (my best guess) like a 55 or 56 frame with the front tube of a 63 frame, that's not even close to be a reasonable geometry to me.

Imagine a guy riding that thing.. seated like in a chopper but short as hell. The handlebars around your chest, custom stem to get the bars down? The worse part is that it is titanium, cut it out and make another bike out of those tubes? bad idea.

[happycampyer]

Like this?
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-cx6Ks4R/0/O/i-cx6Ks4R.jpg

or this?
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-FksDbPR/0/O/i-FksDbPR.jpg

[pdmtong]

If someone needs bars level with saddle, they need bars level with saddle.

My wife has a C5/C6 fusion from inverting on her mtb a few times. I put a +30d on her commuter.


That said, my "issue" with these whacked frames is they are custom, and look terrible.

stock frames with riser stems, I get.

but someone dropping big coin with a custom house getting a visual result that looks like this? surely this cannot be the default design approach when addressing that type of riders physiology.

[Mark McM]

Wow, lot's of bike snobbery being expressed in this thread.

If a particular rider has unique needs to be able to enjoy riding, and a custom frame builder builds a frame optimized to meet those needs, how is that a bad thing? Is it bad only because it doesn't meet your idea of what a bike should look like? Would you rather that these riders not ride at all, if they don't meet your aesthetic approval?

[Big Dan]

Wow, lot's of bike snobbery being expressed in this thread.

If a particular rider has unique needs to be able to enjoy riding, and a custom frame builder builds a frame optimized to meet those needs, how is that a bad thing? Is it bad only because it doesn't meet your idea of what a bike should look like? Would you rather that these riders not ride at all, if they don't meet your aesthetic approval?


You missed the whole point.
When you buy a used "custom" bike you have to be careful and make sure is going to work for you.
Nothing wrong with that.

[ultraman6970]

I have to agree here... but the other point is to have custom and then you have clown custom. the two bikes happycamper posted are super well designed but the one for sale is just undecipherable... for many custom bike means that the builder will do what ever the guy wants but you have some reasonable parameters aswell. U cant pretend ask the guy a frame with a top tube 8 cm shorter just because you have a back problem or because you just want it like that, and i have seen people asking weird stuff like that. They were shown the door really quick.

This is the thing, who ever is thinking in buying this frame needs to be carefull because the chances are really big that the frame don't fit anybody. And honestly probably did not even fit the original owner either, because that thing to me looks more like a "i want the bike like this" type of work than a builder design type of work.



You missed the whole point.
When you buy a used "custom" bike you have to be careful and make sure is going to work for you.
Nothing wrong with that.

[jlwdm]

Wow, lot's of bike snobbery being expressed in this thread.

If a particular rider has unique needs to be able to enjoy riding, and a custom frame builder builds a frame optimized to meet those needs, how is that a bad thing? Is it bad only because it doesn't meet your idea of what a bike should look like? Would you rather that these riders not ride at all, if they don't meet your aesthetic approval?

+100

Jeff

[ColonelJLloyd]

the two bikes happycamper posted are super well designed

That Peg? Really? To me it just looks like a guy who wanted a Peg and has an irrational fear of top tubes near his junk. But, who's to say the photo shows it as ridden by the original owner; could be second hand.

[happycampyer]

I have to agree here... but the other point is to have custom and then you have clown custom. the two bikes happycamper posted are super well designed but the one for sale is just undecipherable... for many custom bike means that the builder will do what ever the guy wants but you have some reasonable parameters aswell. U cant pretend ask the guy a frame with a top tube 8 cm shorter just because you have a back problem or because you just want it like that, and i have seen people asking weird stuff like that. They were shown the door really quick.

This is the thing, who ever is thinking in buying this frame needs to be carefull because the chances are really big that the frame don't fit anybody. And honestly probably did not even fit the original owner either, because that thing to me looks more like a "i want the bike like this" type of work than a builder design type of work.Super well designed? Of the three, I would argue that the worst design is the Pegoretti. Whether the current set-up is for the original owner or not, the 6cm headtube extenstion (or, if you prefer, the 6cm dropped toptube), is sub-optimal. Every builder that I have spoken to about headtube extensions has told me that 2 - 3cm is the maximum they are willing to allow, not just for aesthetic reasons, but for structural ones as well.

Wrt the other two, I don't think the Serotta and the Parlee are that different. Seeing the Parlee built gives it context that one doesn't get seeing a bare frame.

It's funny how some people's lives are so meaningless that they need to find some way to find themselves superior.

[bjf]

Wow, lot's of bike snobbery being expressed in this thread.

If a particular rider has unique needs to be able to enjoy riding, and a custom frame builder builds a frame optimized to meet those needs, how is that a bad thing? Is it bad only because it doesn't meet your idea of what a bike should look like? Would you rather that these riders not ride at all, if they don't meet your aesthetic approval?

+1. I have three Serottas with ETTs of about 53cm and headtubes at 18cm. Obviously not quite as tall in front as this one, but I need them because of a bad back. They also have significant amounts of spacers, so the ebay frame really comes out close to the same without spacers. In fact, I was thinking about the ebay frame for that reason.

[Bwana]

How about this one?

http://i.imgur.com/dZ9ihDUl.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seven-ID8-Titanium-Bicycle-Frameset-/272532486374

[Mark McM]

How about this one?

http://i.imgur.com/dZ9ihDUl.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Seven-ID8-Titanium-Bicycle-Frameset-/272532486374

Holy moly! Not only is the head tube more than half the length of the seat tube, the angle of the head tube is nearly vertical! The trail dimension of this frame must be very low (and possibly even negative). I can't imagine this being very stable at speed at all.


(I wonder if it was designed to be assemblied with the fork backwards, to get a more standard trail dimension? Pondering on this, I'll bet it was.)

[mcteague]

Holy moly! Not only is the head tube more than half the length of the seat tube, the angle of the head tube is nearly vertical! The trail dimension of this frame must be very low (and possibly even negative). I can't imagine this being very stable at speed at all.


(I wonder if it was designed to be assemblied with the fork backwards, to get a more standard trail dimension? Pondering on this, I'll bet it was.)

The photo angle looks like it distorts the perspective. The listing says the TT slope is 10 degrees. Looks like it was just built with a tall HT to achieve an fairly upright position. Frame angles are both around 73, again, according to the listing.

Seat tube (actual center to center) 56cm
Top yube (effective) 59.1cm
Head tube angle: 73.5^
Seat tube angle: 73^
BB height/Drop: 7cm
Top tube slope: 10 degrees
Head tube length: 25cm
Heat tube extension: 1cm
Head tube diameter: 1 1/8"
Estimated standover: 86.7cm

Tim

[BPMasterman]

I guess those measurements could be correct. Then again, there is no real standard for measuring geometry without stack and reach measurements. Plus, its hard to tell from pictures alone. Definitely an odd looking frame, but if it gets someone out on a bike, that's cool.