Any competing athletes on a keto-type diet?

[ANAO]

I'm curious about making this switch. This will be my first attempt at being competitive since the kid arrived last year. Couple the high work-load with 3 hours commuting per day and minimal sleep and energy stores are at an all-time low.

I'm wondering if it's too late in the year to make the switch to a low-carb eating plan, as I ramp up my intensity in about 4 weeks.

Has anybody had success and care to share any tips?

Thanks.

[drewskey]

Jeremy Powers was (still is?) on it per this podcast: National Cyclocross Champion Jeremy Powers on Racing, Training and the Ketogenic Diet (http://www.nourishbalancethrive.com/podcasts/nourish-balance-thrive/national-cyclocross-champion-jeremy-powers-racing-/)

[benb]

Without having to listen to a giant podcast is he really doing a strict Keto diet or is he modifying it for hard training efforts & racing?

Everything I had seen was that these diets impact ability to go over threshold and/or due anaerobic/maximal efforts. Most of the people doing them seem to just trying to lose weight and/or just doing weight training centric fitness where they don't really ever use those systems.

Since most of it is seemingly about weight loss I have no need to try it although I'm always curious. I'm all of 7lbs above race weight despite not riding since Late November and weight training 3x a week and eating whatever I want. Nothing really to improve on anything the doctor would notice either.

[ANAO]

Powers is also now pock fodder.

[stien]

I don't know much about keto but no carbs sounds awful.

I'm on a whole plant based vegan diet and love it. My wife is too. I try to keep the super processed foods to a minimum (top of the pyramid).

She's about to cat up to 3 on the road (1 point away) and I seem to be on the upper end in men's 4 (tactics need improvement).

[ANAO]

Jeremy Powers was (still is?) on it per this podcast: National Cyclocross Champion Jeremy Powers on Racing, Training and the Ketogenic Diet (http://www.nourishbalancethrive.com/podcasts/nourish-balance-thrive/national-cyclocross-champion-jeremy-powers-racing-/)

Did you give it a listen? From the transcript:

I can say I did go into some states of ketosis a couple of times and it was not good for my high end cycling. I did not find especially in cyclocross and in VO2 type efforts where my heart rate was above 175. I didn't have success in kind of nailing that down. And that could have been time. That could have been a bunch of factors. I just did not find that it was -- It didn't make me feel good. My legs did not feel good. I did not feel good in that state.

[KonaSS]

I am no nutrition or even fitness expert for that matter, but have experimented in this space on a n=1 basis.

What many people say is true, great for losing weight, not great for hard training and racing.

What the pros and the science seems to be pointing towards these days is periodized nutrition. High protein/low carb (not full keto) in training, and higher carbs when racing or real hard training.

I think real food based diet, and modifying it towards what your body needs at certain times sounds like a good idea to me. I tend to write off anyone that says that if you have one bite of "X" food, it is going to harm you.

[John H.]

I have read a lot on Keto diets and states of ketosis-
The only performance advantage is if you lose fat.
The diet itself does not help you to perform better- especially at high rates of exertion.
But lose 20-50 lb.- Hell yeah that will make you faster.

[adamhell]

I don't know much about keto but no carbs sounds awful.

I'm on a whole plant based vegan diet and love it. My wife is too. I try to keep the super processed foods to a minimum (top of the pyramid).

She's about to cat up to 3 on the road (1 point away) and I seem to be on the upper end in men's 4 (tactics need improvement).

+1. even when I eat too much heavy fatty and/or processed [vegan] stuff i feel slowed down. when I keep it lean & high carb, energy and stamina for days, and i notice myself becoming less inflamed. check out this dude @spudfit on instagram for one example.

[guido]

I played with the Paleo low carb approach for a while. It is fine for lifting but horrible for endurance or high intensity riding.

A pity because I could certainly loose back some of the weight, but such is life...

[chiasticon]

I have read a lot on Keto diets and states of ketosis-
The only performance advantage is if you lose fat.
The diet itself does not help you to perform better- especially at high rates of exertion.
But lose 20-50 lb.- Hell yeah that will make you faster.exactly. and this was my experience. felt like absolute hell on the bike. thirty miles felt like one hundred.

fwiw, Froome has mentioned using low-carb approach during training, at specific times (https://www.redbulletin.com/int/en/sports/chris-froomes-cycling-nutrition-tips). but that's a little different than putting your body into ketosis for weeks and riding through it. that's what I did. ugh. :crap:

however, now is not a bad time of year to do something like this if you know you're going to be riding very little. help keep the winter weight off and maybe lose some on top of that. but just be careful with the intensity/duration of your rides if you do head out.

[ANAO]

exactly. and this was my experience. felt like absolute hell on the bike. thirty miles felt like one hundred.

fwiw, Froome has mentioned using low-carb approach during training, at specific times (https://www.redbulletin.com/int/en/sports/chris-froomes-cycling-nutrition-tips). but that's a little different than putting your body into ketosis for weeks and riding through it. that's what I did. ugh. :crap:

however, now is not a bad time of year to do something like this if you know you're going to be riding very little. help keep the winter weight off and maybe lose some on top of that. but just be careful with the intensity/duration of your rides if you do head out.

From 1/16-2/16 I have 45 hours planned. After that, heavy intensity. I think I missed my testing window by a month or two.

[LegendRider]

For what it's worth, I saw this article or something substantially similar in a recent issue of Road Bike Action.

http://trainright.com/should-endurance-athletes-go-keto-ketosis-ketogenic-diets-for-endurance-athletes/

[crankles]

What are your goals? Fitness? Weight loss? both simultaneously? I've looked into keto diets as well. I have two friends on them, but they are fighting cancer, not trying to race bikes.

There's quite a bit of "info" (read: a lot of conjecture plus a few small population cohort studies) out there regarding keto and endurance, but in short, a true ketogenic diet will typically contain no more than 20gm-40gm of carbs per day and far less protein than an atkins type lo-carb diet, relying on fat for calories instead. Great for ultramarathoners and randonneurs, but hard to do intense intervals without gylcogen stores at the ready.

I've read a few articles relating to modified ketogenic diets for athletes ( carbs right before/during/after workouts) but haven't tried them myself. it just takes too much effort for me to think about.

instead, If I'm trying to drop of few pounds of fat, yet still need to ramp up training, I've had good success with just doing a week of "glycogen depletion" on my "off" weeks. This puts you into what I would call "short term mild ketosis". You need to keep intensity and mileage in check that week so as not to consume too much muscle mass and drink lots of h2o, but it's far more manageable for me and easier to repeat in 4 to 6 week cycles.


I'm curious about making this switch. This will be my first attempt at being competitive since the kid arrived last year. Couple the high work-load with 3 hours commuting per day and minimal sleep and energy stores are at an all-time low.

I'm wondering if it's too late in the year to make the switch to a low-carb eating plan, as I ramp up my intensity in about 4 weeks.

Has anybody had success and care to share any tips?

Thanks.

[benb]

I am still curious who is here who has (to use the example above) 20-50lbs of fat to lose and rides a serious amount while just eating healthy foods appropriate to calorie expenditures.

Even if I only rode 1000 miles a year I doubt I'd end up 20lbs overweight. Anyone ride 5000+ miles a year and have a weight problem?

Guys like Powers are just out to find any possible thing that might give them some marginal advantage. Easy to understand why you'd try something just to see if it'd make you faster. Sounds like it doesn't though.

[AngryScientist]

so just to get this straight you're planning on working a full time job, commuting 3 hours a day, dedicating a few hours to intense training, and you want to remove any semblance of satisfaction from eating + you have a kid.

sounds like the fast track to hating your life, job, bicycle, family and dinner table to me. :D

[ANAO]

I discussed this with my coach. I got the OK to go full keto as long as I go full-carb/protein for 2 hours before, during and 2 hours after my rides.

After the season I can do whatever I want.

So, partial-keto, per the post 3 or 4 up.

[ANAO]

so just to get this straight you're planning on working a full time job, commuting 3 hours a day, dedicating a few hours to intense training, and you want to remove any semblance of satisfaction from eating + you have a kid.

sounds like the fast track to hating your life, job, bicycle, family and dinner table to me. :D

I rarely eat carbs for dinner anyways!

Lunch is often a sandwich, so I'll need to figure that out. And then I just need to pin the snacking.

The rest, as they say, is still unwritten.

[malcolm]

I am still curious who is here who has (to use the example above) 20-50lbs of fat to lose and rides a serious amount while just eating healthy foods appropriate to calorie expenditures.

Even if I only rode 1000 miles a year I doubt I'd end up 20lbs overweight. Anyone ride 5000+ miles a year and have a weight problem?

Guys like Powers are just out to find any possible thing that might give them some marginal advantage. Easy to understand why you'd try something just to see if it'd make you faster. Sounds like it doesn't though.

I've known several people that did/do over 5k/year and while not morbidly obese way above 20%. Miles alone are not a good indicator of fitness. It depends on what you do with those miles.

My opinion any diet that has a name is not worthwhile especially long term. No nutrient group is inherently evil. Certainly some carbs are better than others and most of us should avoid simple carbs.

For most people 40-60% complex carbs, with the other 40-60% evenly split between protein and fat coupled with adequate exercise both resistance and aerobic with produce a lean or leaner body.

Most hard core/high volume cyclists are not thin because of their diet but in spite of their diet.

[benb]

I discussed this with my coach. I got the OK to go full keto as long as I go full-carb/protein for 2 hours before, during and 2 hours after my rides.

After the season I can do whatever I want.

So, partial-keto, per the post 3 or 4 up.

Sounds more like just a controlled carb diet.. how long do you have to go without carbs for your body to go Ketogenic? I think it's long enough that you'll never actually hit that state if you're riding regularly. (I'd assume you're riding 5-6 days a week if you have a coach.)

[benb]

Most hard core/high volume cyclists are not thin because of their diet but in spite of their diet.

That makes some sense as IME enough cycling will keep you thin no matter what the composition of what you eat.

You can probably make lots of subtle arguments that certain diets (equal calories) would produce better health + cycling results of course.

I remember reading it in Cyclist's training bible, and other places, and it makes sense personally, the more you are training the more motivation you'll have to eat healthy though.

I've almost never done anything that really counted as a diet other then slight reductions in calories if I wanted to lose weight. (Which has never been more then 10-15lbs "winter weight" since I started cycling.) But I drink minimal alcohol, eat almost no candy/desert foods (particularly in season), eat lots of vegetables and little refined carbs, choose leaner proteins, keep caffeine reasonable, avoid OTC/prescription drugs if at all possible, etc.. basically try to eat healthy without overthinking it.

[ANAO]

Sounds more like just a controlled carb diet.. how long do you have to go without carbs for your body to go Ketogenic? I think it's long enough that you'll never actually hit that state if you're riding regularly. (I'd assume you're riding 5-6 days a week if you have a coach.)
Yeah I think it's about a month of 50 carbs/day. I'm riding 5x a week + an occasional run.

Maybe in september/october..

[oldpotatoe]

Sometimes Bike Radar seems like the website version of Bicycling Mag/Rag but this might be worth a scan

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/cycling-nutrition-myths-busted-48943

[Johnny P]

I don't know much about keto but no carbs sounds awful.

I'm on a whole plant based vegan diet and love it. My wife is too. I try to keep the super processed foods to a minimum (top of the pyramid).

She's about to cat up to 3 on the road (1 point away) and I seem to be on the upper end in men's 4 (tactics need improvement).

This.

[Dead Man]

I did a low-carb/occasionally no-carb diet a couple seasons ago to lose weight. I doubt I ever went into actual ketosis, but I did suffer some massive energy deficits at times. Sometimes just pushing the pedals was almost painful, on training rides. I did lose a lot of weight really fast, I didn't lose any strength, and though life sucked for two months, it worked really well for me.

I rack disciprine to go through that again. But if I needed to cut a good chunk of weight fast without losing strength again, and I could muster the resolve to do it, that's def how I'd do it.

No way in hell I'd try to compete carbless - you'd suck ass.

[adub]

Serious question;

Name me one top level/pro endurance athlete that wins who is on a keto diet whilst he/she competes? I did read about an ultra-marathon guy, but he eats gels during races.

Seems to me that is is the trend-Du-jour..

[stephenmarklay]

One of the big benefits of being keto as an endurance athlete is less race day nutrition is needed. So if you have a 12 hour event your stomach has a hard time dealing with the carbohydrates needed to fuel it. A keto athlete usually still eats carbs on race day but a well adapted athlete can do it on half or a third as much.

Even though a well adapted athlete can be super fast on a keto diet, all out effort do require more carbs (say a time trail) and the advantage is reversed.

BTW you can eat carbs and also be adapted at burning fat. It was not unusual for me to go ride 3-4 hours of endurance fasted. The pros doing 7 hour rides back in the day accomplished this.

[joosttx]

Sounds like you are double downing on "hectic" on your hectic lifestyle. That doesn't sound like a good way of getting in shape. Fitness achieved by stress and rest. You cannot keep adding stress without increasing rest and expect a benefit.

[Climb01742]

My opinion any diet that has a name is not worthwhile especially long term.

POTD.:beer::D;)

[ANAO]

Serious question;

Name me one top level/pro endurance athlete that wins who is on a keto diet whilst he/she competes? I did read about an ultra-marathon guy, but he eats gels during races.

Seems to me that is is the trend-Du-jour..

Dave Z?

[LegendRider]

Serious question;

Name me one top level/pro endurance athlete that wins who is on a keto diet whilst he/she competes? I did read about an ultra-marathon guy, but he eats gels during races.

Seems to me that is is the trend-Du-jour..

I certainly don't know any elite athletes on a keto diet, but I do recall a RAAM or ultra endurance rider who kept bonking until he added ice cream and other high fat foods to his otherwise carb heavy diet.

[adub]

I certainly don't know any elite athletes on a keto diet, but I do recall a RAAM or ultra endurance rider who kept bonking until he added ice cream and other high fat foods to his otherwise carb heavy diet.

I'm no dietician but I'd call Ice Cream high carb, 2nd ingredient is sugar.

[buddybikes]

This word scares me (being type 1), but understand this DKA is massively different. But putting body into acidic environment just doesn't sound well to me, as someone who lost a good friend to acidic blood death, after being sick with a cold for a bit. (a lifelong athlete) Don't ask your coach ask a registered dietition or doctor.

Do the reasonable approach here and "low" carb not "no" carb.

[shovelhd]

I wouldn't be changing anything a month before the season, but if the coach says it's ok, then go for it.

[jimcav]

i was not "competing" too hard but i was commuting 50 miles to work, and in 2009 i road bicycle raced. in 2010 i quit racing to train to qualify for boston. It may be coincidence but i had all sorts of cramping/aches/injuries. i tried to adjust diet, add electrolyte drink, carb+ protein drink on the bike, etc. I was on a low carb diet when i started the marathon stuff (which was on top of cycling and my daily morning navy PT) and that had to quickly end--carbs were essential--even junk carbs had a dramatic impact versus too low carbs

[Tandem Rider]

IME, the need for carb's is related directly to the intensity of the overall training and racing. A steady diet of races, and intervals will require plenty of low glycemic carbs. Zone 2 and lower zone 3 rides are great for teaching your body to utilize fat as a fuel, but IME fat is used along with glycogen, not instead of.

[shovelhd]

IME, the need for carb's is related directly to the intensity of the overall training and racing. A steady diet of races, and intervals will require plenty of low glycemic carbs. Zone 2 and lower zone 3 rides are great for teaching your body to utilize fat as a fuel, but IME fat is used along with glycogen, not instead of.

Excellent point. I've always said that some athletes want it all. They want to gain speed and lose weight fast, in a futile attempt to climb the Coggan chart. It's a recipe for burnout. Train for a reasonable mix of intensity and duration and the weight will take care of itself.

[ANAO]

Excellent point. I've always said that some athletes want it all. They want to gain speed and lose weight fast, in a futile attempt to climb the Coggan chart. It's a recipe for burnout. Train for a reasonable mix of intensity and duration and the weight will take care of itself.

This isn't about any type of weight loss - it's about squeezing energy out of possibly new sources.

In any event, I am going to be mostly off carbs for the entire day except the 6-10+ hours before, during and after rides (2 before, 2 after, and during).

[stephenmarklay]

Excellent point. I've always said that some athletes want it all. They want to gain speed and lose weight fast, in a futile attempt to climb the Coggan chart. It's a recipe for burnout. Train for a reasonable mix of intensity and duration and the weight will take care of itself.


The low carb approach works the best with a Phil Maffetone approach to training. That is mostly endurance (his formula is 180-age +-5 beats depending on other factors.) In doing so you, in time, get faster and faster at your endurance pace.

I think there is a lot of merit to his approach. But it takes time and patience. With that approach a lower carb diet can work well. The fastest marathon split at Kona still belongs to Mark Allen (2:40:04) after almost 25 years. He followed a lower carb (not low as seen today) and trained at a low HR. Intervals were the icing on the cake as an event approached.

[ANAO]

The low carb approach works the best with a Phil Maffetone approach to training. That is mostly endurance (his formula is 180-age +-5 beats depending on other factors.) In doing so you, in time, get faster and faster at your endurance pace.

I think there is a lot of merit to his approach. But it takes time and patience. With that approach a lower carb diet can work well. The fastest marathon split at Kona still belongs to Mark Allen (2:40:04) after almost 25 years. He followed a lower carb (not low as seen today) and trained at a low HR. Intervals were the icing on the cake as an event approached.

I don't understand what you're saying about Maffetone. He says to ride mostly at endurance HR? So, lots of base?

[stephenmarklay]

I don't understand what you're saying about Maffetone. He says to ride mostly at endurance HR? So, lots of base?

Correct. My point is that low carb works best at lower HR.

[shovelhd]

Sounds great for RAAM. Most racers I know could care less about endurance pace for anything other than base training.

[stephenmarklay]

Sounds great for RAAM. Most racers I know could care less about endurance pace for anything other than base training.

Agreed. When there are a lot of changes of pace i.e. surges etc it is hard to just use this approach. However, having a huge base and an ability to oxidize fat means you are saving more than your interval only racer. At the end you may just have the edge. But you still have to do some intervals and eat some carbs alone the way.

[Dave B]

Wouldn't your beginning weight or I guess fat percentage play into the need for this type of diet. If you are 10 pounds over weight then maybe not, but 50 pounds overweight and the energy stored kind of negates the "need" for carbs to burn during work outs.

I tried body building a while ago (before cycling) and got big and strong. I stopped and went full on couch potato and it turned to fat. Picking up cycling again I know I will never "look" like a racer, regardless of how hard I get after it.

So this type of diet works for a guy like me. If I was 10 pounds over weight I think might be a different story. So i guess the diet would have advantages depending on your starting point.

[ANAO]

Wouldn't your beginning weight or I guess fat percentage play into the need for this type of diet. If you are 10 pounds over weight then maybe not, but 50 pounds overweight and the energy stored kind of negates the "need" for carbs to burn during work outs.

I tried body building a while ago (before cycling) and got big and strong. I stopped and went full on couch potato and it turned to fat. Picking up cycling again I know I will never "look" like a racer, regardless of how hard I get after it.

So this type of diet works for a guy like me. If I was 10 pounds over weight I think might be a different story. So i guess the diet would have advantages depending on your starting point.

I think the point is that our potential capacity for fat stores are far higher than our potential capacity for glycogen stores.

And I think that the amount of fat on a visually larger person is much more than is needed for a 3 hour bike ride. That is to say: I think even average guys have plenty of fat needed for a 3 hour ride.

The trick, which may be what you're getting at, is to keep the stores topped off. But then that's where the eating plan comes into play.

My interpretation, YMMV.

[Tandem Rider]

I guess I'm a little confused about what you are asking and what your goal is. If you are bonking on a 3 hour ride it is a glycogen storage/fueling issue. If you're not bonking, but your performance for 3 hours is less than what you expect it's a fitness issue. Cutting back on low glycemic complex carbs isn't going to give you more glycogen stores. Glycogen storage capacity, as I understand it, is partially from genetics, and mostly from training.

[ANAO]

I guess I'm a little confused about what you are asking and what your goal is. If you are bonking on a 3 hour ride it is a glycogen storage/fueling issue. If you're not bonking, but your performance for 3 hours is less than what you expect it's a fitness issue. Cutting back on low glycemic complex carbs isn't going to give you more glycogen stores. Glycogen storage capacity, as I understand it, is partially from genetics, and mostly from training.

I'm looking for more energy during the day. My current training schedule, unless I'm commuting by bike that day, leaves me about 6 hours for sleep, if that. There just aren't enough hours in the day. The result is that my weekday turbo sessions are never longer than 2 hours and usually closer to 1 hour. Often 1.5 hours. If I commute in, I'll get 2.5 hours that day + more sleep, as I don't have to ride when I get home. But if it's very cold, raining/snowing or icey out, I'll opt for the trainer. Also if I have a specific workout planned, which is once or twice a week.

With regards to longer rides, Energy stores while riding are fine provided I have a waffle every hour, after the first 90 minutes or so, in addition to 1 bottle of skratch throughout the ride (+1 or 2 bottle(s) of water). Anything under 90 minutes, I just have a bottle of skratch and maybe water as well.

Usually throw a coffee in there for good measure too!

[summilux]

My current training schedule, unless I'm commuting by bike that day, leaves me about 6 hours for sleep, if that.

I'm not your coach or your nutritionist but if you are looking for more energy, I'd look to getting more sleep. All the diets in the world aren't going to help you if you are sleep deprived.

[drewskey]

Did you give it a listen? From the transcript:

You asked "Any competing athletes on a keto-type diet?" and I gave you an answer. What more do you want?

Yes I did read the transcript. He goes on to say it was not good for him "And so I stepped away from that and I sort of went more towards a moderate carbohydrate diet. And so now it's very low fat in the morning and as I get out on my ride I sort of, I reintroduce carbohydrate as I'm going. I sort of fill my glycogen back up throughout the rest of the day and into the next day I seem to be fine. So, I actually forgot your original question as I went off there."

[ANAO]

I'm not your coach or your nutritionist but if you are looking for more energy, I'd look to getting more sleep. All the diets in the world aren't going to help you if you are sleep deprived.

You and me both, brother.

Typical day withOUT riding in as my commute:

0345 Wakeup, quick washup
0415 Wamrup while eating oatmeal on the trainer, ride for 75-90 min.
0530-0545 End workout, drink protein shake, shower, dress for work
0615 Prayer services (I'm an Orthodox Jew)
0645 walk to the bus
0800/0815 - 1700 Sit behind my desk, broker insurance
1830 Arrive home, dinner with the wife and kid
1915 veg out in front of TV, work on bike, play with kid
2030 Put kid to bed and get ready to do it all over again
2130 Target time to be asleep

If I ride in, I wake up 515 instead and shave about 30 min. off commute total time. But again, only in nice weather and only on days with no workout scheduled.

I would love more sleep. Sigh.

[Tandem Rider]

Ok, now I see, your question makes more sense now. Whew, I got tired just reading about your schedule.;)

IMO, and I'm not your coach, but it sounds like you are not resting and sleeping enough for the load you have your body under. I don't think diet is the big issue here. If you are run down during the day, most days, it's a classic sign of overtraining. IME an athlete needs more sleep than an average person. I had a coach for a while who managed to beat the concept through my thick skull that you don't get stronger by working hard, you get stronger by recovering from working hard. :)

[ANAO]

Ok, now I see, your question makes more sense now. Whew, I got tired just reading about your schedule.;)

IMO, and I'm not your coach, but it sounds like you are not resting and sleeping enough for the load you have your body under. I don't think diet is the big issue here. If you are run down during the day, most days, it's a classic sign of overtraining. IME an athlete needs more sleep than an average person. I had a coach for a while who managed to beat the concept through my thick skull that you don't get stronger by working hard, you get stronger by recovering from working hard. :)

Yes, yes he's been saying the exact same thing, don't worry! I just don't know where to find the time. I usually take 2 hour naps on Saturdays and sleep 10+ hours Friday and Saturday nights, capping off the weekend Sunday night with about 8.5.

I wouldn't say I feel "run down" necessarily...I'm just looking to feel more fresh. Maybe it's normal because I'm under a big load.

Anyways, I came across this and it triggered something in my thinking. I usually have an energy bar when I get into the office at around 8:30 and then again around 10:30/11. Today I had yogurt, cottage cheese and an apple for breakfast, then another Chobani when I got in around 9:30.

Famished! Maybe I'll get a burger, hold the bun. How long do I need to do this for again? :p

[shovelhd]

I don't want to second guess your coach, that's not productive. However, just for my own curiosity, how many rest days per week, and how many rest weeks every month? What is your age and racing category?

[ANAO]

I don't want to second guess your coach, that's not productive. However, just for my own curiosity, how many rest days per week, and how many rest weeks every month? What is your age and racing category?
2 per week unless I go for a short run (under 75 tss) Saturday night.
We just finished up an 8 week base block followed by 3 low-volume weeks.
We're 6 weeks out of season and just started higher-volume last week (12 hours, 300km).

I am 26 and 7 points from my cat 2. I race on a 1/2 team.

[shovelhd]

You are getting good advice. Best of luck with the diet. I hope it helps. BTW I worked two jobs, raced at your level and did well. It just takes focus.

[ANAO]

You are getting good advice. Best of luck with the diet. I hope it helps. BTW I worked two jobs, raced at your level and did well. It just takes focus.
Thanks! I followed his tips to a T in 2014 and took 2nd at somerville my first season as a 3. Since then I got married the following season and had a kid last year.

It's amazing what focus and prioritization can do.

[shovelhd]

Thanks! I followed his tips to a T in 2014 and took 2nd at somerville my first season as a 3. Since then I got married the following season and had a kid last year.

It's amazing what focus and prioritization can do.

If you watched any of the race before yours that day, you saw me OTF for the entire race only to be caught at the line. Such is racing.

[ANAO]

If you watched any of the race before yours that day, you saw me OTF for the entire race only to be caught at the line. Such is racing.
What field? I watched a DNK racer solo ftw for about 20 minutes in the masters field. He survived though.

I led out the sprint from waaay back, maybe 10 seconds after the last corner (I was coming in too hot on the wheel in front of me so I just opened it up) and was nipped at the line by mengoni. I have a picture somewhere.

Eta:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170125/dd829e0d07203a574ca42b0eca5d5b79.jpg

[ANAO]

Yesterday was day one at attempting this. I had a 2x20 scheduled for 8 PM. Wifey missed the message that I was skipping the morning workout in favor of the night workout but remembered the keto bit. So we ate delicious steaks and salad. Lunch was soup and salad. Meaning the only carbs I had all day were a whole wheat with my salad and some grains at the bottom of my soup.

I took a bottle of skratch onto the turbo but felt terrible. Is it possible that one day without carbs could do that? First 20 minutes were horrendous. I bit it 8 minutes into the second and called it a day.

Short lived experiment.

[sandyrs]

Yesterday was day one at attempting this. I had a 2x20 scheduled for 8 PM. Wifey missed the message that I was skipping the morning workout in favor of the night workout but remembered the keto bit. So we ate delicious steaks and salad. Lunch was soup and salad. Meaning the only carbs I had all day were a whole wheat with my salad and some grains at the bottom of my soup.

I took a bottle of skratch onto the turbo but felt terrible. Is it possible that one day without carbs could do that? First 20 minutes were horrendous. I bit it 8 minutes into the second and called it a day.

Short lived experiment.

I've heard from my friend who eats this way that it takes time to adapt to this style of diet and you should expect to feel awful until you've adapted.

[ANAO]

I've heard from my friend who eats this way that it takes time to adapt to this style of diet and you should expect to feel awful until you've adapted.

I may pick it back up end of August/September as the season winds down but it'll definitely be on the back burner at LEAST until then.

Lunch today: Bagel with cream cheese, lettuce, tomatoes and a Chocolate danish!

[sandyrs]

I may pick it back up end of August/September as the season winds down but it'll definitely be on the back burner at LEAST until then.

Lunch today: Bagel with cream cheese, lettuce, tomatoes and a Chocolate danish!

Honestly this is about how I'd expect an attempt at keto to go for me, and I don't train with structure the way you do, have a kid, etc.! Enjoy that danish.

I feel like for most people it's just important to keep a nice balance and not over-rely on carbs. That's a good way to set oneself up to be really unhealthy if you ever stop riding.

[ANAO]

Honestly this is about how I'd expect an attempt at keto to go for me, and I don't train with structure the way you do, have a kid, etc.! Enjoy that danish.

I feel like for most people it's just important to keep a nice balance and not over-rely on carbs. That's a good way to set oneself up to be really unhealthy if you ever stop riding.

Good point. I became very carb-heavy because I ran cross-country in college and when we were doing 60 or 70 mile weeks, it was a constant hunger that could only be put off for a couple of hours with pasta, sandwiches, big bowls of cereal/yogurt/bananas/milk - we were all constantly eating humongous meals. And my weight then was 16 lbs. less than now.

Then I transitioned to bikes but my love of carbs remained and I didn't burn nearly as much. So I gained the weight. I'm not BIG (176 lb., 6'1"), but still.

[bitpuddle]

I'm curious about making this switch.

I'm wondering if it's too late in the year to make the switch to a low-carb eating plan, as I ramp up my intensity in about 4 weeks.

I think this is really, really difficult when combined with endurance training. Restricting carbs to the point that you are in ketosis keeps you on the jagged edge of bonking. It takes a while to be truly fat-adapted and once that happens, you really need to maintain the carb levels.

Dialing back the carbs? Sure. Avoiding wheat and sugar? Sure. Eliminating entirely? Really tough.

That being said, I tend to eat near-zero carbs during recovery weeks (every fourth week).

[bitpuddle]

In any event, I am going to be mostly off carbs for the entire day except the 6-10+ hours before, during and after rides (2 before, 2 after, and during).

Just to be clear, this isn't ketogenic.

Think about talking to a sports nutritionist.

[stephenmarklay]

I think this is really, really difficult when combined with endurance training. Restricting carbs to the point that you are in ketosis keeps you on the jagged edge of bonking. It takes a while to be truly fat-adapted and once that happens, you really need to maintain the carb levels.

Dialing back the carbs? Sure. Avoiding wheat and sugar? Sure. Eliminating entirely? Really tough.

That being said, I tend to eat near-zero carbs during recovery weeks (every fourth week).


I get your point and agree with it. I am not sure I agree with your wording however. On a very low carb diet I have found that as I grow tired I don’t bonk in the traditional sense. I just start to slooooow down.