The salt questions

[verbs4us]

After a long ride or run, I rehydrate with water. Yet, I have this vague continuation of mild thirst and dryish mouth—even though I’m peeing light color and have no diabetes or pre-diabetic condition. It’s like the water is just running through and not “sticking.”

The thing that seems to do the trick is Pedialyte, or eating something salty. I generally keep away from salty foods—eat unsalted peanuts, salt-free sardines, unsalted V8 juice, no salt shaker in the house, etc. But we eat out, and I have some processed foods, so I’m sure I’m already over the 2300 mg/day recommended as the max by the CDC.

Could it be that healthy, active people have a higher salt need? I live in the northeast, so it’s not like we’re in Bakersfield or Key West. A long run/ride in the winter can be pretty dehydrating because the air is so dry and requires good pre/during/post exercise hydration. Thoughts?

[Ralph]

I usually listen to Dr Mirkin....and apply to my own situation. You are running in cold weather, so use accordingly.

http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/salt-the-only-mineral-you-need-to-replace-during-exercise.html

[Dead Man]

Many years ago when I was a young production roofer, sweating on triple-digit summer roofs all day long doing some of the hardest work man can do, standard recovery beverage was salted lager. Bossman provided copious amounts for all, and it always felt like liquid life flowing back into me.

Later in life, I got hypertension and the doctor put me on a sodium restricted diet. I've been sodium-wary ever since... but then I started getting really bad cramps on the bike, and more salt always seemed to fix it... and then I did some personal research on the whole sodium topic and came to the conclusion the sodium to hypertension link was complete bull****, so now I'm back to deliberately taking in small amounts of extra salt for hydration and cramp prevention.

I wouldn't try to recover with just water... your body lost a lot more than that in sweat. Give it water, salt, potassium, magnesium and maybe even a little sugar.

Beer, in other words. Salted too. :beer:

[regularguy412]

Many years ago when I was a young production roofer, sweating on triple-digit summer roofs all day long doing some of the hardest work man can do, standard recovery beverage was salted lager. Bossman provided copious amounts for all, and it always felt like liquid life flowing back into me.

Later in life, I got hypertension and the doctor put me on a sodium restricted diet. I've been sodium-wary ever since... but then I started getting really bad cramps on the bike, and more salt always seemed to fix it... and then I did some personal research on the whole sodium topic and came to the conclusion the sodium to hypertension link was complete bull****, so now I'm back to deliberately taking in small amounts of extra salt for hydration and cramp prevention.

I wouldn't try to recover with just water... your body lost a lot more than that in sweat. Give it water, salt, potassium, magnesium and maybe even a little sugar.

Beer, in other words. Salted too. :beer:
^^ This

IMO (from a guy who sweats a LOT -- e.g.:I can lose 5 lbs on a 50 mile ride in high heat/humidity temps while still putting down 3 large bottles in the process) -- hydrate adequately BEFORE the ride, during the ride and after. but in all cases SIP , don't GULP. If I remember correctly, the body can only take up about 2 oz of liquid in 5 minutes. Drinking too much too fast doesn't 'really' get absorbed. And it gets filtered out thru the kidneys.

The trick is: drink early and often, but not in large doses.

Mike in AR:beer:

addendum: the beer works ok, but just remember that alcohol is a diruetic.

[pinkshogun]

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/02/01/this-is-what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-eat-pink-himalayan-salt/

[Louis]

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/02/01/this-is-what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-eat-pink-himalayan-salt/

Maybe Rapha should sell this stuff...

[Dead Man]

addendum: the beer works ok, but just remember that alcohol is a diruetic.

Is it, though?

I know people think it makes 'em pee more, to give the appearance of a diuretic effect.. but I've never seen anything scientific that indicates drinking alcohol will make you pee any more than drinking anything else in the same quantity. Seems to me you pee because you're sucking down a bunch of water in your beverage. I think if you sat around drinking 16oz club sodas at the same rate as your boys drinking pints at the bar, you'd pee the exact same amount as they.

[Louis]

Is it, though?

I know people think it makes 'em pee more, to give the appearance of a diuretic effect.. but I've never seen anything scientific that indicates drinking alcohol will make you pee any more than drinking anything else in the same quantity. Seems to me you pee because you're sucking down a bunch of water in your beverage. I think if you sat around drinking 16oz club sodas at the same rate as your boys drinking pints at the bar, you'd pee the exact same amount as they.

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/102336/pdf/render

http://www.livestrong.com/article/309477-the-effects-of-alcohol-caffeine-on-dehydration/

[Dead Man]

http://www.jci.org/articles/view/102336/pdf/render

1950 study, 3 participant study group... not super convincing.

However, I don't disbelieve that 86 proof bourbon will make you pee a little more than equal volume of water. Or that it'll make you squirt out electrolytes later. This is probably why when you're sucking drinks at the bar, you're peeing clear all night, but then pissing orange in the morning, no matter how much water you try to drink.

But beer, even if it make you pee a little more, isn't going to dehydrate you.. and if it's perhaps less hydrating than sports drink or water, just drink a little more of it to make up for it. :)

Just don't go overboard and drink so much you piss out all those electrolytes you took in the next morning. And don't drink 86 proof bourbon for recovery.

[Louis]

But the second link was from Lance.

I believe everything he says. ;)

[aingeru]

be carefull with the drink, drink, drink...
https://www.outsideonline.com/1900801/tim-noakes-serious-problem-overhydration-endurance-sports

[Hilltopperny]

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2016/02/01/this-is-what-happens-to-your-body-when-you-eat-pink-himalayan-salt/

I switched from iodized table salt to pink Himalayan 2 years ago. Iodized table salt is too processed and not good for the body. Mix some into your water with a touch of your favorite 100% juice and you have your own sports drink:beer:

[regularguy412]

Is it, though?

I know people think it makes 'em pee more, to give the appearance of a diuretic effect.. but I've never seen anything scientific that indicates drinking alcohol will make you pee any more than drinking anything else in the same quantity. Seems to me you pee because you're sucking down a bunch of water in your beverage. I think if you sat around drinking 16oz club sodas at the same rate as your boys drinking pints at the bar, you'd pee the exact same amount as they.

I didn't read Louis' post, but here's another source:

Alcohol inhibits the pituitary secretion of anti-diuretic hormone (ADH), which acts on the kidney to reabsorb water. Alcohol acts on the hypothalamus/pituitary to reduce the circulating levels of ADH. When ADH levels drop, the kidneys do not reabsorb as much water; consequently, the kidneys produce more urine.
Cited:
http://science.howstuffworks.com/alcohol9.htm

Mike in AR:beer:

[jh_on_the_cape]

sodium is not the only salt. potassium works, as well. But we really need some of both.

Having gone through a similar issue, you need the right amount of everything for you and your efforts. not too much, not too little. trial and error and research will help you find that.

After prolonged effort I drink a glass of water and eat a banana or two. sometimes a GU or gel because they contain electrolytes and whatnot but I try to stick to more whole foods. I really found it is important to drink and eat, not just drink water. and sip during your ride. although it's not PRO, you can wear a hydration pack.

[macaroon]

You may be drinking too much. Sounds daft, I know. I figured out I was drinking too much throughout the day; cut down on the water intake and feel much better for it, I also feel less thirsty.

[kevinvc]

I ride with a guy who sweats a lot. Like to the point that he has to stop periodically and wring out his headband. He drinks a lot of water to try to make up for what he loses.

We were on a long race and he started feeling dehydrated, but kept trying to recover with just plain water. Fortunately, there was an EMT at one of the feeding stations who pulled him off the course and had a car drive him straight to the ER. He was drinking so much water that he was flushing his system of, not just salt, but other important stuff as well (I'm not a doctor, I don't know the details). Anyways, they gave him like 3 or 4 bags of saline and stuff through an IV and I had to drive us home the next day since he was still pretty light headed and out of it.

The doctor said that if he had kept on just drinking more and more water he could have damaged his kidneys. Anyways, the point is that just water isn't enough for some folks and, as gross as they may taste, some type of hydration drink may be necessary.

[chasing120]

Skratch Labs comes to mind. Lots of hydration science from those guys.

[adrien]

Skratch Labs comes to mind. Lots of hydration science from those guys.

This, or Nuun tablets. Work great.

[Dead Man]

This, or Nuun tablets. Work great.

Yup.. I like the Nuun "All Day" tabs, in lemon lime. More potassium and magnesium, less sodium.. drink it in most if not all bottles, on long rides

If it's gonna be hot as hell and/or hard ass ride and/or I'm training fatigued and more likely to cramp, I'll add "Margarita" Shot Blocs, with extra sodium, to dose up a little on sodium

[Matt-H]

I ride with a guy who sweats a lot. Like to the point that he has to stop periodically and wring out his headband. He drinks a lot of water to try to make up for what he loses.

We were on a long race and he started feeling dehydrated, but kept trying to recover with just plain water. Fortunately, there was an EMT at one of the feeding stations who pulled him off the course and had a car drive him straight to the ER. He was drinking so much water that he was flushing his system of, not just salt, but other important stuff as well (I'm not a doctor, I don't know the details). Anyways, they gave him like 3 or 4 bags of saline and stuff through an IV and I had to drive us home the next day since he was still pretty light headed and out of it.

The doctor said that if he had kept on just drinking more and more water he could have damaged his kidneys. Anyways, the point is that just water isn't enough for some folks and, as gross as they may taste, some type of hydration drink may be necessary.


Hyponatremia is no joke.

https://www.kidney.org/atoz/content/hyponatremia

[Ralph]

Where I live.....I do 3 to 4 hour rides in hot weather most of the year. I carry 2 water bottles on every ride. Sometimes both Gatorade or one Gatorade and one water. If temps are in high 90s will also eat some salty snacks. My rides sre just one constant drip drip drip all the time. Water don't cut it....not safe. I stop the sugar consumption just before ride end. Eat something a little more substantial after ride. Others I ride with use their favorite mix. I happen to like weak mixtures of Gatorade. Has it all.

[verbs4us]

Thanks guys. Good thread here. I esp like Mirkin's analysis. Yes, recovery is more than just water. I prefer to couple it with real food--bananas, PB, garbanzos, rice, etc. Electrolytes etc from food, not from DuPont. Did a ride last fall in Death Valley and I have to admit, by mile 40 the pickle juice tasted mighty good. That was unusual conditions, with fluid just disappearing from your body at light speed. Will try lightly salted fluid on the next ride/run and dilute electrolyte mix on recovery. Good point about rate of hydration. I have noticed too much too fast just goes straight to the bladder.

[AngryScientist]

Beer, in other words. Salted too. :beer:

standard recovery drink here.

learned in the merchant marine - sweat through your clothes in the engine room day after day and water just doesnt do it. few shakes of table salt in the beers at night and it's liquid gold.

[mjalder2]

Last year I went with Camelbak Elixir tablets to drop into one of my two bottles on longer rides and trainer rides, but now I'm seeing they're discontinued. I read in The Feed Zone Portables about electrolyte depletion, and I think I'm about to get some Scratch labs mix as a result. Seems pretty bad to deplete your electrolytes from long suffer-fests.

[RC.]

Do you have salt deposits on your clothing when you're done riding? If so, you might be a salty sweater and all of that sodium needs to be replaced. I know Hammer Nutrition makes Endurolytes which have helped me in the past. You also need to make sure to eat post ride within that 1/2 hour window.

[drewellison]

Rule #93: Learn it, live it, love it.

http://www.velominati.com/racing/descents-are-not-for-recovery-recovery-ales-are-for-recovery/

[RFC]

Particularly during the AZ summer, I add 1/4 teaspoon of "Lite Salt" to each bottle and can definitely say it cuts my post ride recovery because I don't dip down as low. Lite Salt is half sodium chloride and half potassium chloride.

[RC.]

Particularly during the AZ summer, I add 1/4 teaspoon of "Lite Salt" to each bottle and can definitely say it cuts my post ride recovery because I don't dip down as low. Lite Salt is half sodium chloride and half potassium chloride.

Interesting. Where did you come up with the measurement to add?

[Ralph]

Here is what Dr Mirkin (A noted sports medicine Doc and former runner and current cyclist) says about sports drinks. He doesn't support a lot of hype about various advertised products. It's not really his opinions....he quotes studies.

http://www.drmirkin.com/fitness/8341.html

[RFC]

Interesting. Where did you come up with the measurement to add?

Just a guess. Wanted to add a small amount of salt to my water.