OT - Chemistry sets

[Dead Man]

Anybody current on junior high to high school level chemistry and/or have a great recommendation on a set to get?

Is it better to buy a set? or maybe to get a good book and just order equipment and glassware and reagents as needed for specific projects?

Don't have a budget exactly. I am assuming it'll be an ongoing expense, whether we buy a whole set up front or piece it together. I guess for a set, I'd want to keep the initial cost under $600, but I really have no idea what this sort of crap costs these days. I'm pretty sure my dad spent $250 on what was a "top of the line" set when I was a kid, but that was 25+ years ago.. We probably don't need top-of-the-line, but I also don't want cheap glassware or lame equipment. I've got 6 home schooled kids and this stuff will get used.

Thanks boys

-B

[jtakeda]

I'll ask my girlfriend. She'll have some recs. In the meantime I happen to be selling a molymod organic chemistry model set right now on eBay.

If you're interested I'll give you a significant price cut

[Dead Man]

I'll ask my girlfriend. She'll have some recs. In the meantime I happen to be selling a molymod organic chemistry model set right now on eBay.

If you're interested I'll give you a significant price cut

I'm interested.. which set? PM me the link?

[11.4]

If you want a high school chemistry set, it's mostly inorganic. There's a little organic, but in most programs you aren't getting very far into organic topology, which is where an organic model set will be of much use (I'm assuming this is a molecular model set that you're talking of). Mostly kids at that level need to learn to draw simple organic structures rather than build models anyway. At least, that's what they'll get tested on as they go to university or to university programs for high school students.

If you buy a turnkey kit, it tends to be pretty amateurish and doesn't go very far. Especially for multiple kids. You can buy the chemicals much cheaper from mail-order places like Springfield Chemical. Amazon carries a lot as well, and you can also google for nearby chemical supplies. Buy USP and you'll be more than fine in almost all instances. And you can buy the glassware and odds and ends (burner, stand, scale, etc.) on Amazon at cheaper prices than from any of the educational supply houses. For several kids just buy six-pack boxes of a few cylinders, beakers, etc. You do most of your reactions in test tubes, so just get a box of 72 or so since you break a lot of them. Spend the money on good full-coverage goggles and even a polycarbonate full face mask. A hot test tube full of something caustic that boils over is like a rocket in your face and it's very unpredictable and damaging. For the same reason get some lab gloves (also on Amazon) and have the kids use them. The texts or manuals you are using will have a list of glassware and other equipment.

You don't have to buy a laboratory scale. They are generally overpriced for what you get, and poor quality. You can get an OXO $49 digital platform balance with 1 gram accuracy, get a few hundred disposable plastic weighing trays, and kids can be sharing it without messing each other up. A dozen stainless spatulas let you dole out reagents with multiple kids involved, use each spatula once and then wash them all together afterwards.

Kids need to learn to use a bunsen burner but honestly, most of the time, I've helped a lot of kids with chemistry on a MSR Whisperlite or similar stove. There isn't a lot of rocket science to it. You're just trying to heat stuff and not start a fire. People sometimes get so caught up in the mechanics that the kids never learn the actual chemistry. (I'm a chemist and physicist by training, btw.)

You can find lots of used glassware and lab supplies around -- eBay or even Craigslist. You aren't in an area where a lot of labs are going out of business, but check out local auction companies just in case. Labs dump piles of perfectly good glassware and lab equipment all the time.

In short, put the equipment together yourself. And for home use, get a couple pieces of Hardiebacker cement backer board. It's cheap and makes the best working surface. One tilted up against the wall behind your bench and one on your bench will stop inadvertent fires and also handle caustic spills. Some people will be aghast but if you rinse out your glassware well, you can then run it through a dishwasher on a sanitary (hot water) cycle and get stuff nice and clean. It's mixing chemistry and food, but you're likely to be doing that anyway unless you have a separate laundry sink reserved exclusively for chemistry.

A lot depends on just what kind of chemistry program you are home-schooling in. An advanced program will take you to a good bit more equipment and supplies, but the cost is still quite low. I've helped neighborhood kids with 12th grade chemistry where they were actually fractionating and were running basic spectroscopy and the like, and were learning to purify DNA as an example of how high molecular weights affect viscosity. What you can actually do in home schooling is to teach your kids to be creative about how to do an experiment. It's one thing to be told that everything is in a locker in a chem lab; it's something else to figure out how to do the experiment with the glassware you have and the supplies and reagents you have.

[Louis]

Whatever you do, be sure to get this stuff too, the students will love it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5VdbabPbvU

[victoryfactory]

nm

[Dead Man]

As a dedicated car camper I can tell you that finding a safe legal free place to park is an issue. National forests and BLM lands work. but are there any near your Job? Early morning routines before you get to work will be inconvenient. this will get old fast imo. A fully equipped mini camper that you can stand up in (as mentioned ) is the minimum. Otherwise it will wear you out.

VF

yea.. not gonna be doing "chemistry" in a camper tho

[Idris Icabod]

I'm an organic chemist in the pharma industry. Can you buy from places like Chemglass and Ace glass? I assume they will sell directly to a consumer. I might have a model kit kicking around that I can send you. Haven't used one in years, there are free modeling software that you can download that would provide a better introduction and a bit more up to date than building a model.

[El Chaba]

When I was a kid, my father handed down his chemistry set. we filled in a few of the missing pieces of apparatus from a few hobby stores, who used to all have a integrated cabinet for such things from a company called "Perfect"...or from the Edmund Scientific catalog. In any event, the set in question was from about 1940 and was made by Lionel...the same as the toy trains. The set also had all manner of chemicals that no kid would be allowed anywhere near today....

[Bob Ross]

When I was a kid, my father handed down his chemistry set. we filled in a few of the missing pieces of apparatus from a few hobby stores, who used to all have a integrated cabinet for such things from a company called "Perfect"...or from the Edmund Scientific catalog. In any event, the set in question was from about 1940 and was made by Lionel...the same as the toy trains. The set also had all manner of chemicals that no kid would be allowed anywhere near today....

Yeah, I was just reminiscing this morning about the chemistry set my parents gave me when I was 6 or 7 years old. Some all-in-one turnkey thing with a bunch of lab glassware and maybe two dozen vials of various chemicals. I have no recollection of what any of them were -- or what one was expected to do with them -- other than the hydrochloric acid, which I proceeded to pour all over everything I could find to watch it dissolve. Who gives a 6-year-old hydrochloric acid?!?! This would have been circa 1967.

Things only got worse when my grandfather discovered that I was enjoying [sic] my new chemistry set and so gave me his copy of "Intro To Chemistry For Boys", a textbook from ~1923 ...that included a recipe for thermite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite)!!!

[Dead Man]

Hah.. Happens to be I fully intend to make some thermite with my oldest

Thanks for info provided so far - I'm actually seeing what I think are really good prices on used glass on eBay.. Is there any reason to think buying used glass could be a bad idea?

[Schmed]

Let me know if you need anything specific. We have a chemical company and I'd be happy to donate some general lab or safety supplies for your budding chemists! As long as you a) promise not to make meth with it and b) promise to be safe.

Used glassware should be fine. I'd run it through the dishwasher and maybe do an acid rinse on it to be a bit extra safe.

[Dead Man]

Let me know if you need anything specific. We have a chemical company and I'd be happy to donate some general lab or safety supplies for your budding chemists! As long as you a) promise not to make meth with it and b) promise to be safe.


Hey, you got any 5000ml round-bottoms I could score off you?

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697933427&stc=1&d=1484952349
(Supposed to be a pic from Breaking Bad, but looks like it didn't stick)
---

But yea... that's a stellar offer, man. I have no idea what we'll need yet (open to recommendations) - Looks like I need to get a chemistry experiment book or three, start reading, and come up with some kind of curriculum.

Anybody have suggestions on good books?

[acorn_user]

Have you seen MEL science experiments? They look pretty cool. I think I saw them advertised on the compound interest website.

http://www.compoundchem.com/infographics/

https://melscience.com/en/experiments/

Btw, I'm the stock manager of a college chemistry department. Colleges sometimes have excess lab ware they are wanting to get rid of, especially as the number of experiments is being cut at some schools. Otherwise, we use Cynmar for cheap lab supplies and they are pretty good.

Have fun!

[Louis]

Also, be sure to get lots of magnesium ribbon so you can burn it at night in the back yard:

(at least that's what I did with the 6" or so that I "borrowed" from the chem lab supplies when I was in HS)


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/qSr39UwpELo/hqdefault.jpg

[rab]

11.4 covered it pretty well!
I will add that you should be able to avoid buying almost any equipment, glassware, disposables etc from the lab suppliers, which will all be premium/overpriced. Amazon or even McMaster-Carr for basic items should cover you at a decent price. Or as mentioned, if you have any resale/salvage/surplus options you can get some great deals, hit or miss.

[Bob Ross]

Also, be sure to get lots of magnesium ribbon so you can burn it at night in the back yard:

(at least that's what I did with the 6" or so that I "borrowed" from the chem lab supplies when I was in HS)

Oh yeah, loved burning magnesium strips when I was a teenager! I even designed a "laxative bomb" that was supposed to spew Milk Of Magnesia when it exploded. Never got to detonate that one though.

I still fondly recall building scale model volcanoes filled with ammonium dichromate (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonium_dichromate) in elementary school. Gotta wonder how someone discovered that application!

[acorn_user]

Dichromate? Heavens!