650b x 42 >> 26" x 54

[brockd15]

Have any of you gone from a 650b wheel with 42's (or some other size, I suppose) to 26" in order to use the Rat Trap Pass? Thoughts? Did it work?

When I switched to 650b I used to hear that a 650b x 42mm was roughly the same diameter as 700c x 23mm. Now I've seen that 26" x 54mm is roughly the same as 650b x 42mm. That gets me thinking that I could pick up a pretty nice "obsolete" 26" wheelset on the cheap and use those biiiig tires.


***EDIT***
As always, any thread is better with pictures.

[hokoman]

I did some research on the nfe and the bike was designed for 650b, but this guy runs the rat trap tires on it.

http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com.br/2015/08/rat-trap-pass-tires-on-elephant-nfe-and.html?m=1

Btw, I have a couple sets of king 26" wheels I was probably going to take apart and have rebuilt.. maybe we can work something out if that is the direction you want to go.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I use this calculator (http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/trailcalc.php) to calculate the radius or diameter of different tire sizes for comparison. Whether different sizes will fit in your frame depends on the lateral clearance.

[weisan]

Brock pal, I had been thinking about this too. it's not just the wheel size. It rode different when I had Schwalbe Big Apple (26" x 56) on my trucker compared to switching over to 650b x 48 Compass Switchback hills. I prefer the 650b configuration.

[ptourkin]

I use this calculator (http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/trailcalc.php) to calculate the radius or diameter of different tire sizes for comparison. Whether different sizes will fit in your frame depends on the lateral clearance.

I use that calculator for stuff like that. Of note, this is basically the combinations Rawland lists for the Ravn with 61 bb drop (which is apparently at Velo Cult now and actually exists this time.) It should work.

[brockd15]

Anybody know if the hubs on Mavic Crossmax wheels will take an 11 speed cassette like their road wheels do?

[brockd15]

Brock pal, I had been thinking about this too. it's not just the wheel size. It rode different when I had Schwalbe Big Apple (26" x 56) on my trucker compared to switching over to 650b x 48 Compass Switchback hills. I prefer the 650b configuration.

Weisan, do you think that was related to the size or the weight (or something else)? I just checked on the Big Apples and those bad boys are 710g a pop!

I've only had one set of Schwalbe's before....Marathon something....I didn't like them at all. They felt heavy and dead.

[vitaly66]

Big Apples are in no way comparable to Compass tires, they are exactly the opposite.

I have a similar -- probably wacky -- idea for a bike build. That is, running something like the RTP (559x55) on 26" wheels, dirt drop (Midge), etc., Surly Straggler 650b frame.

Sort of a poor man's National Forest Explorer?

[weisan]

True.

Big Apple are not exactly comparable to Compass tires. It's less supple, definitely heavier, deliver a more deadening ride but at the same time probably more puncture resistant.

I guess I was referring to the way the different wheel size seems to affect the ride and feel even though they may share similar overall diameter.

[R3awak3n]

they are definitely comparable in size

tons of people with Elephant NFEs are running rat trap. The bike was built for 42mm tires with fenders and people are using rat traps with fenders.

Personally if it fit I would go with switchback hill over the rat trap unless you really need all that volume

[brockd15]

I currently have Baby Shoe Pass with fenders. Clearance is fine but I haven't tried anything bigger, but I'm sure I'd have to take off the fenders. I just picked up some WTB Horizons to try out but haven't mounted them yet.

As far as the Rat Trap Pass, I definitely don't have a need for that much volume, it's more of a situation of doing it just 'cause I can (maybe, if it would fit) and might be fun.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Personally, I would go as fat in 650b as you can and pass on the RTP. And FWIW the Horizon isn't the same quality a tire as the Switchback Hill even in regular casing. In the EL, well, quite a difference.

[adamhell]

that being said, I just made my horizon's tubeless and they are pinkies up supple. they feel really nice.


even if no geo is compromised when switching between the same EOD 26" & 650b, pneumatic trail is affected due to the tires' different footprints. (but I'm no expert)

[R3awak3n]

Personally, I would go as fat in 650b as you can and pass on the RTP. And FWIW the Horizon isn't the same quality a tire as the Switchback Hill even in regular casing. In the EL, well, quite a difference.

its a better tubeless tire apparently so I guess its a toss

[guido]

I love Babyshoe pass on my NFE. But I tried Switchback Hills and found them a bit sluggish. I have 26" wheels and RatTrap Passes waiting for me to finish the NFE re-build and give these a more through go. I liked the 26"/RTP on my franken-Bridgestone and can't wait to give them a real test on a better fitting frame. Yay for disc brakes that let us swap sizes so easily...:banana:

[brockd15]

Yay for disc brakes that let us swap sizes so easily...:banana:

Cheers to that! :beer:

Please report back when you get those RTPs on there.

[ColonelJLloyd]

its a better tubeless tire apparently so I guess its a toss

I guess that's debatable and dependent one's definition of "better tubeless". I just setup SBH ELs tubeless on Stan's Mk3 Crest rims and it was stupid easy with a regular floor pump. Still waiting on the frame to be finished so they're just hanging, but they're holding pressure for days. I did notice one area on only one of the tires where the sealant seeped out at the bead, but it certainly sealed up.

Contrary to Guido I felt like SBH ELs were the supplest and fastest tire I've ridden. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[R3awak3n]

I guess that's debatable and dependent one's definition of "better tubeless". I just setup SBH ELs tubeless on Stan's Mk3 Crest rims and it was stupid easy with a regular floor pump. Still waiting on the frame to be finished so they're just hanging, but they're holding pressure for days. I did notice one area on only one of the tires where the sealant seeped out at the bead, but it certainly sealed up.

Contrary to Guido I felt like SBH ELs were the supplest and fastest tire I've ridden. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

from what I have heard from people that have ridden SBH and Horizons, the horizons just are better in the long run as in the SBH works great but eventually will start leaking because of the thin walls (this probably only on the super light casing one).


I like my SBH a lot but I think on pavement, the babyshoe is a better tire. WBH is fine on pavement don't get me wrong but you definitely have to increase pressure or they will be too bouncy (at least for me). That said I like the SBH more, I think its a great tire and one of my favorites

[guido]

I think which one you like has to do with your relationship to low trail. I like the quick light feel that low trail gives, the Babyshoe pass tire hits it spot on while still providing the magic carpet ride. If you want things slowed down a bit the Switchback Hill tire will take the twitchy out of the sub 36 bikes. The 26"/RTP tires keep the light input with the flotation for rough roads...

[ColonelJLloyd]

I don't quite follow, guido. Indulge me.

I really liked 44-584 (actual) on a bike that, with those tires, had 39mm mechanical trail.
I really like the tire feel of SBH on a bike that didn't fit well enough and handled poorly with a front load because of its 72d HTA and 57mm mechanical trail.
I spec'd a custom frame to have 35mm mechanical trail with SBH based on my favorable view of the handling with that approximate value of trail, my favorable impression of those tires in general and my builder's own riding experience with those tires and the same 35mm trail. Let's hope I spec'd it right. ;)

[guido]

Nothing fancy. Just pneumatic trail compensating for the reduced mechanical trail. Bigger tires have more pneumatic trail.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Nothing fancy. Just pneumatic trail compensating for the reduced mechanical trail. Bigger tires have more pneumatic trail.

I get that. But what numbers are you attributing to a particular increase in a given tire volume? How exactly are you compensating?

Is there an amount by which to increase trail to compensate for the increase in volume from 42-584 to 48-584? I don't know the math so I went with what little I had from experience.

[guido]

I get that. But what numbers are you attributing to a particular increase in a given tire volume? How exactly are you compensating?

Is there an amount by which to increase trail to compensate for the increase in volume from 42-584 to 48-584? I don't know the math so I went with what little I had from experience.

I'm playing mostly from experience and the BQ articles on the subject...

That said, there is an interesting calculator that can let you play what-if games...
http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/trailcalc.php

Start with a known combination and see what that comes up with. Then start playing with the variables to make guestimates as to what things would feel like...