OT: Recommend me a Truck

[cmbicycles]

I'm looking into replacing my Outback with a pickup. Looking primarily at older Tundra or F150's, looking for a crew cab (to be able to drive w/ family when needed) and w/ 4wd. I'm trying to keep it less than $6k, so 12+/- years old is about where you start to hit that threshold. It will be a daily driver for me, commuting during the week, and hauling stuff + kids (usually lumber or things I tinker with and fix up/sell in my spare time) on weekends. Occasional trailering, once or twice a year.

Anyone with either truck of that vintage care to share their experience? Either engine in the Ford more reliable (4.8 vs 5.4)? Tundra came either v6 or v8 I think. I do most of my own vehicle maintenance already so looking at what I can expect there as well being that they are of age to run into some issues.

[Tickdoc]

I'm looking into replacing my Outback with a pickup. Looking primarily at older Tundra or F150's, looking for a crew cab (to be able to drive w/ family when needed) and w/ 4wd. I'm trying to keep it less than $6k, so 12+/- years old is about where you start to hit that threshold. It will be a daily driver for me, commuting during the week, and hauling stuff + kids (usually lumber or things I tinker with and fix up/sell in my spare time) on weekends. Occasional trailering, once or twice a year.

Anyone with either truck of that vintage care to share their experience? Either engine in the Ford more reliable (4.8 vs 5.4)? Tundra came either v6 or v8 I think. I do most of my own vehicle maintenance already so looking at what I can expect there as well being that they are of age to run into some issues.

Used Platinum steel ford will be your huckleberry.

[CaptStash]

I have a 2003 Chevy Silverado that just turned over 100,000 miles. Very reliable vehicle and great in the snow with with the automatic four wheel drive turned on. My truck is a 1500 long bed extra cab (with the suicide doors). Back seat is plenty roomy and a bike will fit in there with both wheels on if you so desire. The only issue I have had has come from the windows. Chevys are notorious for crappy window regulators so I've had to replace a few. They are pretty easy to install if you're handy. Other than that it's been a great truck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[shovelhd]

Rust is the issue with Toyotas and Fords of that era, especially up north. I'd check the underbody very closely. Otherwise they are both good full sized trucks. If you can deal with a smaller bed but even more storage, the most family friendly truck out there is the Ridgeline. You should be able to get a original 2006-2008 model in that price range. Gas mileage will blow the Ford and Toyota away, tows 5,000 pounds, Honda reliability. If you look at one I can tell you the things to look out for.

[cmbicycles]

I would consider the Ridgeline, but it didnt do as well in consumer reports, and I don't care as much for the aesthetics of the sloping sides to the bed. I would guess its issues are would be somewhat similar to the several 86-02 Accords I had prior to the present Subie.

[4Rings6Stars]

timely thread...

I'm considering making the same switch, though from an older A4 wagon instead of an Outback.

I bought a house this fall in the burbs and have a decent bit of land, so more and more I'm finding I wish I had a truck.

I commute by train to work, so only drive my car 3k - 5k miles a year. Gas mileage is my smallest concern since I drive so little, but I want it to be reliable and be able to fit two car seats in the back seat for the rare occasion I need to drive the kids when my wife's car is unavailable.

4 door Tacoma would probably top the list, but even 10+ years old they are holding their value well and more than I want to spend.

I hadn't thought much about the Ridgeline, but this thread has piqued my interest.

I'm not positive I want something as big as a Tundra or Silverado with the full 4 door cab, but it would probably be more practical than the 5/6 foot beds on the Ridgeline/small trucks.

[AngryScientist]

in the same boat, sort of.

i always keep a beater 4wd vehicle in addition to my car, and my cheap jeep has some real issues that are going to need to be dealt with or car sold.

toyotas have awesome engine life and its generally no problem to coax them to 250 - 300K, however body rot and rust can be the death of them before the engine. of course, with buying a 40+ thousand dollar truck for well under 10 grand there will be issues that you need to look for. routine maintenance, and the general integrity of the body. suspension components can be pricey for full sized trucks and if you get one with clapped out suspension, it can be downright unsafe to drive until fixed.

it's no picnic looking for such used vehicles - they all seem to have something major wrong with them in my price range...

good luck!

[jamiec]

I remember my friend had a Tundra of that vintage and Toyota has recalled the frame due to rust issues (years 2000 -2003) Toyota did replaced the frame so that is something you'll want to keep in mind.

I had a early 2000's Ranger and replaced it with a 2010 4 door Silverado and there is no comparison. I commute in mine (20~ miles) and the Silverado just drives and ride so much nicer. Wish I just bought a fullsize truck way back and instead of driving that Ranger for 6-7 years. Just food for thought when thinking about a Tacoma/Small truck. Plus Tacomas are so expensive for some reason.

[paredown]

I've been very happy with my stripper 2003 V6 Tundra. Not fancy, ie winder windows, no central locking, no carpeting etc, but it has been a great work truck. I bought it used with about 16k miles.

So far it has been front brakes, 02 sensor and new spark plugs & leads (currently has 135,000 miles) and I am just digging in to some delayed maintenance (timing belt and wp), and one nagging CEL (fuel pump related).

But it has been remarkable trouble free, even with heavy loads.

2001-05 stayed pretty consistent, 2006 they got bigger. A lot of folks prefer the earlier ones, even though they are about 3/4 sized by today's standards. Frame rust recall should have taken care of the problem vehicles--they replaced some frames and coated the rest (mine was coated).

The SR5 V6s are nice--short box, and access cab rear. The V8s get pretty terrible mileage (the V6 marginally less terrible--I can get around 20 mpg driving with a light foot) but will give you decent towing capacity.

[Hilltopperny]

I bought a certified used 4dr Tacoma and love the truck. Only problem with Toyota is that they have an extremely high resale value.

[Hardlyrob]

I have a 2001 Nissan Frontier with 136K miles on it. No real problems other than those related to age. Brakes as you would expect, and had to do the exhaust system last year due to rot. Nissan's don't seem to have the rust issues that the Toyota's and Fords have from this vintage.

It doesn't drive great, but importantly for me, it has a lower bed height than the newer trucks. I don't understand how you can load drywall or heavy plywood into the new trucks where the top of the bed is about 5 feet off the ground. I build furniture and cabinets as a hobby / part time business, so I haul a lot of wood and plywood.

[Macadamia]

I have a 2001 Nissan Frontier:beer:
Yeah look for a Frontier, or even the preceding model, D21 hardbody. I have a 1995 D21 and the only thing I don't like about it is no airbags, mine was apparently from the first half of 1995, airbags were in the latter half on. Also I don't know if you need the power of a 6, but the 4 cylinder KA24E or DE runs forever and has a timing chain.

Toyota prices are nuts

[shovelhd]

I would consider the Ridgeline, but it didn't rate that well in consumer reports. Though I would guess its issues are would be somewhat similar to the several 86-02 Accords I had prior to the present Subie.

If CR data is a major factor then pay the bloated prices for a used Toyota. That's the cost of popularity. With the Ridgeline I would want the service records. The rear differential fluid must be changed at the recommended intervals or you're looking at an expensive repair. The V6 can use oil after 100k but as long as you stay on top of it, it's fine. I had almost ten troublefree years with mine. I averaged 19mpg.

[cmbicycles]

If CR data is a major factor then pay the bloated prices for a used Toyota. That's the cost of popularity. With the Ridgeline I would want the service records. The rear differential fluid must be changed at the recommended intervals or you're looking at an expensive repair. The V6 can use oil after 100k but as long as you stay on top of it, it's fine. I had almost ten troublefree years with mine. I averaged 19mpg.

CR is one source I look at, not the only one. But I would agree that the prices on the Toyotas seem bloated... $10k+ for a truck with almost 300k miles is not unusual to see, that just seems crazy unless they go for 500k or more. But trucks in general are either expensive or have issues. I looked at a F150 last night online that was in the right price, but had variable 4wd, as in it sometimes works and sometimes doesn't. That is the norm I guess high miles, high prices, or mechanical issues.

The older Ridgelines look bigger than the newer ones, although they are not a true 1/2 ton pickup, which is likely a big reason they get better mileage. I considered a Tacoma, and other similar smaller pickup instead of the full size, but since I am 6'5" I have to be able to fit in it with someone in the seat behind... albeit they are currently only 4 1/2 ft tall at the moment, but growing. Newer versions look bigger, but in my price range they are all older and small looking.

[djg21]

I'm looking into replacing my Outback with a pickup. Looking primarily at older Tundra or F150's, looking for a crew cab (to be able to drive w/ family when needed) and w/ 4wd. I'm trying to keep it less than $6k, so 12+/- years old is about where you start to hit that threshold. It will be a daily driver for me, commuting during the week, and hauling stuff + kids (usually lumber or things I tinker with and fix up/sell in my spare time) on weekends. Occasional trailering, once or twice a year.

Anyone with either truck of that vintage care to share their experience? Either engine in the Ford more reliable (4.8 vs 5.4)? Tundra came either v6 or v8 I think. I do most of my own vehicle maintenance already so looking at what I can expect there as well being that they are of age to run into some issues.

My only advice is if you are doing a double cab, get a long bed rather than a short bed. I got a Tacoma DCSB because a long bed wouldn't fit in my garage. I wish I had a long bed to accommodate bicycles and other stuff. The 5ft bed is too short. I can put bikes in it with front wheels removed, but carrying more than 2 bikes is difficult (I strap them to the side of my bed and cap). I have a cap on my to lock my bikes and keep them out of the elements.

[Bentley]

I moved back to Florida from Ohio about 4 years ago. I had sold my "truck" prior to moving so upon return I needed to buy a "new" truck. Basically, I wanted something to haul stuff in and do the normal stuff you need a truck for so I started out looking for a "used" truck. Well that was a mistake. I found a lot of trucks, 10 years old and older, with over a 100K miles that people wanted to sell for 10 to 15 grand. The cheap beater trucks were definitely beat, both mileage and condition. I ended up buying a new, 2012 leftover "work truck", basically a stripped down truck for about $17K out the door with an extended warranty.

My advice, used trucks seem to be the only vehicles that hold their value.

My 2 cents

Ray

[p nut]

I moved back to Florida from Ohio about 4 years ago. I had sold my "truck" prior to moving so upon return I needed to buy a "new" truck. Basically, I wanted something to haul stuff in and do the normal stuff you need a truck for so I started out looking for a "used" truck. Well that was a mistake. I found a lot of trucks, 10 years old and older, with over a 100K miles that people wanted to sell for 10 to 15 grand. The cheap beater trucks were definitely beat, both mileage and condition. I ended up buying a new, 2012 leftover "work truck", basically a stripped down truck for about $17K out the door with an extended warranty.

My advice, used trucks seem to be the only vehicles that hold their value.

My 2 cents

Ray

I agree with that. Around where I am, only trucks in the $6k range is beat up construction rigs with 250k+ miles. You can typically count on probably double the price tag for all repairs in the first year. Personally, I would increase the budget by a bit. You may come out better in the end.

[William]

We were at a similar point, looking for a used PU as an extra vehicle/work/errand truck. I started out looking in a similar ballpark, something not too old, beat up, or rotted out. Most people here know I'm a Toyota truck fan, but I also have a soft spot for Ford PU's as well...mainly because of all the out of the way places my grandfather took us camping and fishing in his old 72 standard cab, long bed 4x4 when we were growing up.

Anyway, most of the trucks in that 10 to 12 year old price range were either way over priced or beat up and rotted out. Then I spotted an ad for a 1993 F-150 4x4 long bed standard cab that looked in very good shape in the photos. The list of things done to it was very detailed so I decided to check it out. Turns out the guy only used it to occasionally haul his boat and carry gear to gigs (plays in a cover band). Everything was straight and in good shape, started right up with a flick of the key from dead cold, and he cold tell me everything in detail about work done to it. I was getting ready to crawl underneath it to check out the frame when he says to wait a sec, opens his garage door and grabs a creeper for me to lay on under the rig. I couldn't help but notice the old Lincoln hot rod and all the mechanics tool sets, sandblast unit, and all the other mechanical gear that only a serious car guy would have. I didn't start out looking for an older truck, but everything pointed to a well maintained rig that was worth a shot.

Don't rule out an older rig, just do your homework, be persistent, and check out any interesting lead. Good rigs and deals are out there, you just have to wade through the chaff and be ready to act.









William

[OtayBW]

Just to be fair and balanced here (did I ACTUALLY say that?...:eek:), I've had 3 Toyota trucks over the last 27 years and have had nairy a wisp of frame rust that was out of the ordinary - and I've live in the Northeast most of that time.

Now, back to your regular channel...:crap:

[p nut]

We were at a similar point, looking for a used PU as a third vehicle/work errand truck. I started out looking in a similar ballpark, something not too old, beat up, or rotted out. Most people here know I'm a Toyota truck fan, but I also have a soft spot for Ford PU's as well...mainly because of all the out of the way places my grandfather took us camping and fishing in his old 72 standard cab, long bed 4x4 when we were growing up.

Anyway, most of the trucks in that 10 to 12 year old price range were either way over priced or beat up and rotted out. Then I spotted an ad for a 1993 F-150 4x4 long bed standard cab that looked in very good shape in the photos. The list of things done to it was very detailed so I decided to check it out. Turns out the guy only used it to occasionally haul his boat and carry gear to gigs (plays in a cover band). Everything was straight and in good shape, started right up with a flick of the key from dead cold, and he cold tell me everything in detail about work done to it. I was getting ready to crawl underneath it to check out the frame when he says to wait a sec, opens his garage door and grabs a creeper for me to lay on under the rig. I couldn't help but notice the old Lincoln hot rod and all the mechanics tool sets, sandblast unit, and all the other mechanical gear that only a serious car guy would have. I didn't start out looking for an older truck, but everything pointed to a well maintained rig that was worth a shot.

Don't rule out an older rig, just do your homework, be persistent, and check out any interesting lead. Good rigs and deals are out there, you just have to wade through the chaff and be ready to act.









William

All that and no pictures?? I think that was the last of the good looking F-series (9th gen).

I can say that, because I drive a later gen F150. :)

[gregblow]

I had been looking for a few years. I live in Florida and it may be the area, but every "old" truck I was interested in was way overpriced! Guys tend to get attached to them. I ended up buying a 2014 F-150 standard cab for 20,000. I wanted to spend only 5-8,000 for an extra vehicle only used to pull my boat, but couldn't find anything. And get at least the 6 foot bed!

[carpediemracing]

I asked the same thing at work, asking all the techs. Meaning what truck would they buy.

They universally said Chevy/GMC. No breaking spark plugs, no warping exhausts, no regular random electrical faults.

Told me watch out for rust and other than that I'd be good to go.

There's one guy that just bought a new Ford. The others had Chevy/GMC (3 of them?).

To be fair I own a Ford with plugs that need replacing, one warped/cracked exhaust manifold, rusting radiator support.

[William]

All that and no pictures?? I think that was the last of the good looking F-series (9th gen).

I can say that, because I drive a later gen F150. :)


:D



William

[p nut]

Nice. Reminds me of the "Walking Tall" movie truck.

http://www.imcdb.org/i000116.jpg

[Ralph]

I think I would look for a new stripper truck....with new truck warranty.....new everything....tires, engine, trans, body, etc....nothing to fix.....and figure in long run it may be cheaper than a used one.

Now if you were to look at something that was never popular.....something with a high depreciating rate......maybe not a truck.....but something that can haul stuff......you may do it for $6000. Find something a little off the radar.....that once you fix it up...stays fixed. Maybe even a Dodge truck. Just avoid a complicated version. Or maybe a truck based body on frame Ute.

Body and related suspension work is what costs the most. Engine work relatively cheap. Transmission work can be costly also...so I would look for a manual trans in that price range. Much cheaper to fix.

[gemship]

I'm looking into replacing my Outback with a pickup. Looking primarily at older Tundra or F150's, looking for a crew cab (to be able to drive w/ family when needed) and w/ 4wd. I'm trying to keep it less than $6k, so 12+/- years old is about where you start to hit that threshold. It will be a daily driver for me, commuting during the week, and hauling stuff + kids (usually lumber or things I tinker with and fix up/sell in my spare time) on weekends. Occasional trailering, once or twice a year.

Anyone with either truck of that vintage care to share their experience? Either engine in the Ford more reliable (4.8 vs 5.4)? Tundra came either v6 or v8 I think. I do most of my own vehicle maintenance already so looking at what I can expect there as well being that they are of age to run into some issues.

This thread so up my alley, lol! I am actually in the opposite situation as you. For the past two years I have been driving a 02' GMC Sierra Z71 and now I feel like a Outback. I don't feel like I can replace the truck regarding it's 8 ft. bed or committed brute strength of the 5.3L V8 and more commited 4wd but an all wheel drive clean used Outback equipped with receiver hitch towing a utility trailer maybe just might fill my most of my needs. Once a year I invert the leaf springs half a dozen times foraging for fire wood, LOL. This is where the GMC would literally romp a Subie but outside of that I could actually work out of that and enjoy driving it more with better MPG most all the time. I wish I could say something great about the GMC, well I guess it's the drivetrain. Lots of typical little stuff goes wrong with it but that engine and transmission just sound and go nice. I actually live with stuff going bad like a hole in the muffler or the fuel gauge works intermittently. Stuff you could live with. Had to replace the power window motor but it only cost 30$ to do yourself. It's hard not to like a Ford or GMC in that regard. Oh well good luck, the MPG though forget about it.

Another thing unique to my GMC that bugs me is I have to replace the rubber bushing/cab mounts. However I have been living with funny creaking and the cab sitting a couple inches lower on the frame in relation to the bed ever since I owned it. Something to consider among other things with old trucks in general. Every brand has it's own gremlins. I will heavily poo poo a similar year Tundra. They are more along the lines of rust buckets frame wise.

[11.4]

Owner here of a F350 super duty, crew cab long bed, as well as an Outback. And I've owned a variety of bigger trucks from both Ford and GM and others.

First of all, you reach an inflection point in age where the older you go, the less there is to go wrong. The fewer the electronic components, the less to go wrong and the less cost to repair and much easier to repair. Just the diagnostic equipment for a modern electronic pickup can be pretty daunting. If you're going into the early 21st century, I'd definitely go back another ten years. You won't have quite the airbags (or airbags at all), might not have antilock brakes, might want to put in an aftermarket stereo, and so on. But there are a lot of good trucks from that era wandering around. Shop nationally and for the money you save, be prepared to ask for lots of photos and then go inspect it personally and then drive it home.

The truck manufacturers, all of them, had a lot of problems from about 1998 to about 2010. They were selling technology and gizmos more than real work capability and their trucks were often bizarrely complicated to work on. I had a Ford that required you lift the whole cab off to do basic engine work, and my company had a Ram that boasted huge horsepower but blew out a rear differential if you actually tried to haul a load. All the trucks were problems back then -- both mechanical, electrical, and body issues. Your only chance was to buy one from Arizona or Texas that had seen light duty and had fully intact bodywork. And the mini trucks, especially the Japanese ones, really were struggling to find durability; the first one to really be more than a boy's first pickup was the second or third generation of the Tundra. For the rest, ... they were a price point and not much else.

And I wouldn't bother to read Consumer Reports on trucks. The people who contribute data on trucks to Consumer Reports are rarely real users. Their expectations and their truck usage are far from standard. Just look at the criticisms about ride quality and stereo quality and so on -- most of the comments come from trucks driven empty and not towing or carrying loads they were designed for. And the comments rarely have to do with the parameters that matter most to a serious truck owner.

The truck market is crazy these days. Everybody wants one. I just sold a 2012 Superduty that I purchased for $50k and sold it for $43k. That's about par. It cost me $9200 to upgrade to a 2017 F350 Lariat crew cab long bed from a truck with 66k miles. So I doubt your price point is going to be realistic. Not for a truck these days. You could do better shopping for one of the old classic large cars from the 90's. You'll find better deals in those. I picked up a W124 Mercedes in mint condition with 60k miles for $8500 last year. Found it listed on eBay and it wasn't far away, and grabbed it; drove it for a few months and gave it to a stepdaughter. An amazing car that doesn't get marked up much. If you really want that price point, you'll have to be flexible, creative, and patient.

And PS: I love the Outback. It isn't what I want to haul a ton of stuff with, but I also wouldn't want to be without it. Life is much saner if I don't have to worry about a truck bed I can't fully secure, if I have a vehicle that doesn't have height limitations getting into public garages, and so on. Grass is always greener, but I'd think about renting a Uhaul or Home Depot truck for those occasional trips and sticking with an Outback. I have legitimate uses for the Superduty, but I wouldn't be happy without the Outback.

[572cv]

No advice, just a data point... I have an '06 Nissan Frontier, extended cab, 4wd, V-6, with a 6 speed manual transmission. I got it second hand from an older gentleman in MA, with about 40k on it, 4.5 years ago. It has held up well, has decent mileage (low 20s generally) and maintenance costs have been few. I like driving it. The biggest problem has been the failure of the tire pressure monitors, which were somewhat costly to replace. This would be a reasonable target, possibly not to far off your price point.

Good luck with your search!

[Gummee]

I'm looking into replacing my Outback with a pickup. Looking primarily at older Tundra or F150's, looking for a crew cab (to be able to drive w/ family when needed) and w/ 4wd. I'm trying to keep it less than $6k, so 12+/- years old is about where you start to hit that threshold. It will be a daily driver for me, commuting during the week, and hauling stuff + kids (usually lumber or things I tinker with and fix up/sell in my spare time) on weekends. Occasional trailering, once or twice a year.

Anyone with either truck of that vintage care to share their experience? Either engine in the Ford more reliable (4.8 vs 5.4)? Tundra came either v6 or v8 I think. I do most of my own vehicle maintenance already so looking at what I can expect there as well being that they are of age to run into some issues.

amazingly enough, I have a 2002 King Ranch I need to sell. 4x4, 4dr, yadda yadda yadda

M

[jtakeda]

timely thread...

I'm considering making the same switch, though from an older A4 wagon instead of an Outback.

I bought a house this fall in the burbs and have a decent bit of land, so more and more I'm finding I wish I had a truck.

I commute by train to work, so only drive my car 3k - 5k miles a year. Gas mileage is my smallest concern since I drive so little, but I want it to be reliable and be able to fit two car seats in the back seat for the rare occasion I need to drive the kids when my wife's car is unavailable.

4 door Tacoma would probably top the list, but even 10+ years old they are holding their value well and more than I want to spend.

I hadn't thought much about the Ridgeline, but this thread has piqued my interest.

I'm not positive I want something as big as a Tundra or Silverado with the full 4 door cab, but it would probably be more practical than the 5/6 foot beds on the Ridgeline/small trucks.

Keep looking. I just scored a Tacoma for $3,000 with a locking camper shell. Youll find one.

[carpediemracing]

I'm looking into replacing my Outback with a pickup. Looking primarily at older Tundra or F150's, looking for a crew cab (to be able to drive w/ family when needed) and w/ 4wd. I'm trying to keep it less than $6k, so 12+/- years old is about where you start to hit that threshold. It will be a daily driver for me, commuting during the week, and hauling stuff + kids (usually lumber or things I tinker with and fix up/sell in my spare time) on weekends. Occasional trailering, once or twice a year.

Anyone with either truck of that vintage care to share their experience? Either engine in the Ford more reliable (4.8 vs 5.4)? Tundra came either v6 or v8 I think. I do most of my own vehicle maintenance already so looking at what I can expect there as well being that they are of age to run into some issues.

FYI 5.4 Ford 3 valve ("3v") is what I have. Spark plug design wasn't good and the 100k replacement interval meant that all the original plugs broke in half when you tried to remove them. Figure 1 hour per plug labor if the truck has under 100k miles on it. This is 2006 era, meaning mine.

The older 2v didn't have this problem. However it made about 260 hp. The 3v made 300hp, which is about 10hp short of the 2v V-10 / 6.8 liter. Once I saw that I understood why they went to 3v, but the breaking plugs is a bummer. If you're looking at one try to get one that's 125k or higher, realistically the plugs have been done.

However even the older 2v had the rusting exhaust manifold stud problem. Combined with warping manifolds, you can expect to replace the manifolds. This is a costly process since it's tough to remove the remnants of the rusted studs. This happens on 2v or 3v Ford engines of that era.

I built myself a quote for both jobs at work. I'm looking at a non-discounted $3000 or so.

A car friend of mine, a stubborn Ford fan, admitted that it might be best to build an engine separate from my Expedition and swap engines. This would take care of the plugs and the exhaust manifold at one time. This is a guy that thinks I shouldn't look at a Chevy but at the same time thinks it's more practical to have two engines for my Ford and swap them every 100k or so.

But I'd still be dealing with rust.

The radiator support panel for this era lacked some kind of rust proofing. It's normal for them to rust away. Expedition = F150, so I've learned some of this stuff as well. It's not uncommon to find that your radiator isn't held up by the panel, instead it's just sitting on your frame rails.

Having said that I recently got a chance to drive a reasonably well maintained Dakota Sport pick up, 117k miles. I have no idea how they ever sold these things. The Expedition is like a limo/sports-car compared to the Dakota, and my Expedition rides year round on studless snows (Blizzak VM-1).

I drove a Frontier (stick) and loved it.

My original query on trucks was along the lines of "I have a 7000 lbs trailer to haul, what truck should I buy?". I'm 99% sure I'll sell the trailer so then it becomes "will it carry the snowblower and a 4x8 sheet of plywood", not "will it tow at least 7000 lbs". It would ideally have two rows of seats so we could put Junior in the back.

No idea what I'd replace the Expedition with, but realistically a cargo van and a judiciously purchased pair of second row captain chairs.

[carpediemracing]

Another thing with the Expedition. With snows on it feels unstoppable in 2WD. I only once took it out in automatic 4WD but generally feel totally comfortable in 2WD in deep unplowed snow. In one somewhat sketchy experiment I went as fast as I dared in 2-5" snow of a snowing-over interstate. Normally I'm a pretty slow driver in snow - I'm usually one of the slower drivers - but I hit 75 mph before I lost my nerve. I was doing some pretty hard braking applications at different speeds as I went faster, to test available traction etc. Over 60 mph I didn't do a hard brake application but I did one at 60 mph. Obviously no one else around while I did all this, and I was alone in the Expedition.

Our driveway is 21%. To get out of our complex is 10-12%. Takes me a minute or two to go up the 10-12% grade on the bike. And we get plowed "not first". So just leaving our complex can be an adventure or impossible without snows.

[bikinchris]

FYI 5.4 Ford 3 valve ("3v") is what I have. Spark plug design wasn't good and the 100k replacement interval meant that all the original plugs broke in half when you tried to remove them. Figure 1 hour per plug labor if the truck has under 100k miles on it. This is 2006 era, meaning mine.

The older 2v didn't have this problem. However it made about 260 hp. The 3v made 300hp, which is about 10hp short of the 2v V-10 / 6.8 liter. Once I saw that I understood why they went to 3v, but the breaking plugs is a bummer. If you're looking at one try to get one that's 125k or higher, realistically the plugs have been done.

However even the older 2v had the rusting exhaust manifold stud problem. Combined with warping manifolds, you can expect to replace the manifolds. This is a costly process since it's tough to remove the remnants of the rusted studs. This happens on 2v or 3v Ford engines of that era.

I built myself a quote for both jobs at work. I'm looking at a non-discounted $3000 or so.

A car friend of mine, a stubborn Ford fan, admitted that it might be best to build an engine separate from my Expedition and swap engines. This would take care of the plugs and the exhaust manifold at one time. This is a guy that thinks I shouldn't look at a Chevy but at the same time thinks it's more practical to have two engines for my Ford and swap them every 100k or so.

But I'd still be dealing with rust.

The radiator support panel for this era lacked some kind of rust proofing. It's normal for them to rust away. Expedition = F150, so I've learned some of this stuff as well. It's not uncommon to find that your radiator isn't held up by the panel, instead it's just sitting on your frame rails.

Having said that I recently got a chance to drive a reasonably well maintained Dakota Sport pick up, 117k miles. I have no idea how they ever sold these things. The Expedition is like a limo/sports-car compared to the Dakota, and my Expedition rides year round on studless snows (Blizzak VM-1).

I drove a Frontier (stick) and loved it.

My original query on trucks was along the lines of "I have a 7000 lbs trailer to haul, what truck should I buy?". I'm 99% sure I'll sell the trailer so then it becomes "will it carry the snowblower and a 4x8 sheet of plywood", not "will it tow at least 7000 lbs". It would ideally have two rows of seats so we could put Junior in the back.

No idea what I'd replace the Expedition with, but realistically a cargo van and a judiciously purchased pair of second row captain chairs.

People in the know have been using a never seize early on in the life of the engine on the spark plugs to eliminate the problem of seizing. I never heard about the radiator support problem.

[54ny77]

Sounds like you just need a big SUV or another wagon.

I'd skip a truck unless you really need a truck. And be realistic about that "need" because 90% of the time can be limiting depending on configuration.

A full size SUV offers immense practicality.

[carpediemracing]

People in the know have been using a never seize early on in the life of the engine on the spark plugs to eliminate the problem of seizing. I never heard about the radiator support problem.

The new plugs don't break in half. However it's not seizing. There's carbon build up that prevents the inner part of the plug from coming out. The plug gets wider than the hole, basically, and it seems that if you try to unscrew it the ceramic center breaks in half and the lower part of the plug stays inside the engine. The new plugs are designed to force the issue, you basically break off the carbon buildup by unscrewing the plug, and it's one piece so nothing can get left behind.

I see a lot of mid 2000s 5.4 3v trucks with about 95-110k miles for sale. I'm guessing they never had plugs done. My 2006 Expedition has 94k miles on it.

As far as the radiator support bracket, it's pretty well documented if you check out F150 and Expedition forums.

*edit let me find a smaller picture. THis is the first image I found via Google.
https://jdetnw.bn1.livefilestore.com/y2pdp1yKH16Xsajl_xEiltd7ffg1UTgp4vbrl_09BrZnrpIlsR 6Tj9kpU7sH31pCfH2fn4iK-RkqW5svYf3Gk47rQA5tHbwUjRBQdk0X02qVmKqvBOBxgM9V5Jq r37eOwYD/Rusted%20support%2003.jpg?psid=1


Youtube clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nSy8NGDh0U

[William]

Nice. Reminds me of the "Walking Tall" movie truck.

http://www.imcdb.org/i000116.jpg


Nice! It already has a mild lift but I probably won't build it as much as my Landcruiser. I will be adding some goodies along those lines though...I can't help myself! :D


Rust? As long as you start before it gets a good foothold, Fluid Film the carp out of it twice a year to keep it at bay.





William

[cmbicycles]

I don't care to have another wagon, its a fine car but doesn't do what I want when I need it. We had considered buying a beater truck and keeping the Subie, but currently don't want to deal with having a 3rd vehicle. If our housing were different and we were in a more permanent location, however, that would probably be the way I would go. A large SUV would be the same fuel economy as a truck, but without the utility of the open bed, and we already have a Highlander (it also doesn't do what I need a vehicle to do) so don't need or want another suv.

With crossing work schedules between my wife and I often on weekends, I would often have my kids with me and seeing as I can't rent an extended cab pickup that wouldn't be practical. Future plans would also dictate a truck as more practical for the eventual purchase of a small farmette in the (hopefully not too distant) future.

I've weighed the pro/cons for what I want to do with a vehicle. We've crossed the Rubicon on that issue, and since I don't need to get rid of what I have, time is on my side to find something. Thanks for the thorough replies Carpediem, I'll add Chevy to the list as well. Thanks everyone for the thoughts and experience.

[carpediemracing]

Some more thoughts. Big SUVs are not big inside when it comes to hauling stuff.

I have the standard Expedition which is the short full size SUV, like a Tahoe I think. Not like a Suburban or the Expedition EL.

4x8 sheet of plywood doesn't fit inside with the hatch closed. I have to open the rear hatch window and lean the 4x8 out the open window. Edges of the plywood sit on weatherstripping as window opening isn't rectangular.

8 foot 2x4 don't fit inside either, the inside is not quite 8' long. Have to stack on top of the center console or over the passenger door, or, like the plywood, open the hatch and let it stick out a bit.

For our snow thrower (2 stage, cheap Yard Machine or sister product so not terribly big) I have to remove the top chute to fit the snow thrower in the back, and even then I'm scraping the headliner to get the thing in. I basically tilt the snow thrower on its wheels, effectively reducing its height by tilting back the tall bits, and then plop it down when I think the handles will clear. It self wedges into the headliner. I've lost a ceiling vent trim piece doing this.

I think that either the full length SUV would be the way to go (Suburban, Exp EL, etc), a van, or a pick up with a (tall) cap. Being able to toss a 2"x4" or 4x8 plywood into the back is nice, and driving a fully assembled snow thrower up a ramp is much easier than trying to remove cotter pins and the like from a freezing cold hunk of steel covered in snow/ice/etc.

Today someone brought in a relatively new Navigator to where I work. Sister vehicle to the Exp. I checked it out and although most of the vehicle was rust free, the bottom of the radiator support panel was noticeably corroded. Fuel tank straps were pristine, as were chassis and brake lines - I wish my Exp looked like that Nav looked. I didn't catch the year but I think it was a 2010. Car was immaculate outside, meaning if you weren't underneath the thing with a Cree flashlight.

I'm still dreaming of a nice cargo/passenger van, full size, with second row captain chairs. I think that would be ideal. Could tow if necessary. I really think tall chairs are necessary to prevent injuries in case of getting rear ended. A moderately sized V-8 to tow. Can go get lumber or whatever without worrying much about whether it would fit or not.

My second thought is, if no trailer, get a minivan. FWD, reasonable economy, would be great for bike races. A minivan will carry much more than the Expedition. Maybe not in weight but definitely in size/bulk. Small/med mattress, snow thrower, even some wood. Garageable. Exp is about an inch below the garage door to our 3rd bay. I think a full size van won't fit unless I lower it a couple inches. Minivan, easy fit.

[AngryScientist]

Some more thoughts. Big SUVs are not big inside when it comes to hauling stuff.
.

just to add to your thought, a small utility trailer, even a folding one is a tremendously useful thing for a homeowner to have. they fold up to store out of the way, and can carry ANYTHING. low to the ground deck. light enough to easily move around by hand. load them full of plywood, sheetrock, snowblowers, water heaters, washing machines, matresses or a spare couch. definitely something to consider if you think you need an open bed pickup but dont need all the other stuff that goes with that.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0252/9111/collections/Trailers_Collection_Pic_copy_large.png?v=139096470 5

[merlinmurph]

Just to be fair and balanced here (did I ACTUALLY say that?...:eek:), I've had 3 Toyota trucks over the last 27 years and have had nairy a wisp of frame rust that was out of the ordinary - and I've live in the Northeast most of that time.

Now, back to your regular channel...:crap:

Then again, I had a '99 4Runner that after 9 years and 175k miles, I had to get rid of because of corrosion. Mechanically, it was perfect and I loved the thing, but NE winters took their toll.

[William]

Then again, I had a '99 4Runner that after 9 years and 175k miles, I had to get rid of because of corrosion. Mechanically, it was perfect and I loved the thing, but NE winters took their toll.

I know a guy who had the same issue. Aesthetically and mechanically the vehicle was in great condition. Then one day driving down the road, all of a sudden the handling went cattywampus. Turned out the frame had snapped due to corrosion. The dealer/Toyota wouldn't warranty it.








William

[OtayBW]

Then again, I had a '99 4Runner that after 9 years and 175k miles, I had to get rid of because of corrosion. Mechanically, it was perfect and I loved the thing, but NE winters took their toll.
Interesting. My '89 PU lasted through 2004 with comparable (or greater) mileage, and I was living in Millbury, ~15 mi away that whole time. :rolleyes:

[pbarry]

GSA fleet auctions might be worth looking into. They have an abundance of 6-10 year old trucks, many with very low miles. https://autoauctions.gsa.gov/GSAAutoAuctions/

[merlinmurph]

Interesting. My '89 PU lasted through 2004 with comparable (or greater) mileage, and I was living in Millbury, ~15 mi away that whole time. :rolleyes:

The VT winters were probably a big factor. We went skiing every weekend in central VT.

If you look at the rear bumpers from that vintage, they almost always show rust coming from the inside. Simple maintenance was becoming complicated by things being rotted. I finally sold it when I needed a new rack because of rust.

[cetuximab]

I love the four wheel drive. Great truck. The Crew Cab is nice. It fits me and my wife and three kids. We just had kid number four, so I need a truck with a bench front seat. It has a dent in the passenger side bed panel, so that will make it cheaper.
It's a 2004.
180k miles
I think kbb is about $5000.

[HenryA]

I just bought a new F150 SuperCrew and still have my 2004 Tundra. Wife drives an Outback. Funny how many people here drive practical vehicles. Anyway, I think my Tundra has an easy 100-200 miles left in it. And thats with 230 miles on the clock now.

Its been an amazing vehicle, the best Ive owned. No rust, probably because I dont live in the frozen north. They salt here but only a very few times each winter. I wash the bottom of the truck anyway.

I would have bought a brand new Tundra just like the old one if they made them in that old intermediate size. I also went back and forth on not buying a new truck. But we're planning on some towing so a bigger and newer truck seemed a wortwhile thing.

Find the right Tundra and you wont be sorry.

[4Rings6Stars]

I love the four wheel drive. Great truck. The Crew Cab is nice. It fits me and my wife and three kids. We just had kid number four, so I need a truck with a bench front seat. It has a dent in the passenger side bed panel, so that will make it cheaper.
It's a 2004.
180k miles
I think kbb is about $5000.

I've considered the Colorado / Canyon as well. Literally 1/2 to 1/3 the price of comparable Tacoma.

I like the Nissan Frontier suggestion--not one that was really on my radar.

The biggest thing holding me back from getting a "small" truck with four doors is whether a 5 foot bed is long enough to be worthwhile.

[paredown]

I've considered the Colorado / Canyon as well. Literally 1/2 to 1/3 the price of comparable Tacoma.

I like the Nissan Frontier suggestion--not one that was really on my radar.

The biggest thing holding me back from getting a "small" truck with four doors is whether a 5 foot bed is long enough to be worthwhile.

I have the same debate with myself about a replacement for mine with a full 8' bed--I see a lot of my compatriots at Home Despot are using bed extenders with the shortbed trucks for the times when they are hauling full length loads--or trailers work as well...

[.RJ]

I would consider the Ridgeline, but it didnt do as well in consumer reports, and I don't care as much for the aesthetics of the sloping sides to the bed. I would guess its issues are would be somewhat similar to the several 86-02 Accords I had prior to the present Subie.

I owned a ridgeline for 5 years, it was the most useful vehicle I've ever owned.

2 road bikes will fit in the back seat, wheels on. 3 or 4 will fit in the bed, or 2 motorcycles. The trunk storage is awesome. Drives like a minivan, fits into most parking spots, easy to drive in the city.

I cross-shopped all the small trucks at the time, and it was no comparison between them. If you want a smaller truck, do not pass go, do not collect $200, go buy a ridgeline.

[wtex]

I've been looking at the Canyons also - what prices are you seeing for the 4WD?

[4Rings6Stars]

I've been looking at the Canyons also - what prices are you seeing for the 4WD?

I haven't been following them closely, but see some colorados / canyons in the $5k-$8k range on the local Craigslist. 2004-2006 crew cabs with higher miles.

[AngryScientist]

i'd have a real, real hard time buying a truck with >150k miles without having a pretty good idea of the maintenance history. this is the point where stuff starts to really fall apart if it hasnt been kept up pretty well. brake lines, radiators, differentials, transmissions, etc. Big expenses can be just around the corner if you're buying something at that mileage level with questionable history.

[Hilltopperny]

I liked the ridgeline and Tacoma for small trucks when I was shopping around. The older gen tundras as well. My father in law loves his 2003 tundra and it's all the truck he will ever need. I know you are in Massachusetts, but there is a dealer in Hoosick falls NY who specializes in older Toyota trucks.

I ended up with a four door Tacoma with the 5ft bed. It is a great truck for my small family and recreation. If I needed a work truck I'd buy a tundra with an 8ft bed. BTW the only vehicles I've ever owned that lasted well above 200k were my avalon, camry, accord and integra. As long as the maintenance has been done on a Toyota or Honda they will last for quite a while:beer:

[AngryScientist]

As long as the maintenance has been done on a Toyota or Honda they will last for quite a while:beer:

true story:

My best friends dad emigrated from Italy. he was not a car guy at all, and there were some language barriers at the time.

he bought a toyota pickup (before they were called the tacoma, it was just a pickup...), and allegedly the salesman told him it was a "maintenance free" vehicle for 100k miles.

he ran that truck for 115k miles without doing ANYTHING, never changed the oil once. threw a rod at 115k, but that's pretty damned good!

[likebikes]

The biggest thing holding me back from getting a "small" truck with four doors is whether a 5 foot bed is long enough to be worthwhile.

i miss the days of big wagons. grew up in the back of a big 80s euro wagon, dad would take us to home depot, buy a bunch of crap, fold down the rear seats (a 4x8' sheet of plywood or whatever would fit flat inside, hatch closed and rear seat folded). we would sit in the back on top of the lumber or whatever.

[Hilltopperny]

true story:

My best friends dad emigrated from Italy. he was not a car guy at all, and there were some language barriers at the time.

he bought a toyota pickup (before they were called the tacoma, it was just a pickup...), and allegedly the salesman told him it was a "maintenance free" vehicle for 100k miles.

he ran that truck for 115k miles without doing ANYTHING, never changed the oil once. threw a rod at 115k, but that's pretty damned good!

I had a 1991 v6 5spd 24valve camry my stepdad bought me at the auto auction for $150. It was a beater for sure, but I ran it to over 250k and sold it. The kid that bought it wrecked it with 275k. You just couldn't kill the motor or tranny.

[shovelhd]

I have the same debate with myself about a replacement for mine with a full 8' bed--I see a lot of my compatriots at Home Despot are using bed extenders with the shortbed trucks for the times when they are hauling full length loads--or trailers work as well...

I used a hitch hand. They've since been knocked off by the Chinese. They are good for long boards, but watch the weight as it acts as a lever.

[Tickdoc]

i miss the days of big wagons. grew up in the back of a big 80s euro wagon, dad would take us to home depot, buy a bunch of crap, fold down the rear seats (a 4x8' sheet of plywood or whatever would fit flat inside, hatch closed and rear seat folded). we would sit in the back on top of the lumber or whatever.

don't ya know that's dangerous! I miss those days. We always had an old farm truck. I miss riding in the back on a hot summer day. (I don't miss hauling hay, though)

[carpediemracing]

i miss the days of big wagons. grew up in the back of a big 80s euro wagon, dad would take us to home depot, buy a bunch of crap, fold down the rear seats (a 4x8' sheet of plywood or whatever would fit flat inside, hatch closed and rear seat folded). we would sit in the back on top of the lumber or whatever.

I bookmarked an ad for a Buick wagon for just this reason. $3k, 1990, the cool multispoke alloy wheels.

Of course nowadays you can't sit on the 4x8, but at least it would fit flat in the back of this wagon.

Hm it's still for sale.

Right. The snow blower wouldn't fit in it. I couldn't remember why it was on the nix list.

[Walter]

My experience has been that Toyotas are bulletproof. I have several friends with the last gen Tundra (the window you are considering) who have logged big mileage with no issues (provided one changes fluids and filters appropriately).

I live in AZ so rust is something we only read about.

My wife and I have had GMC trucks in the past and we had issues: ancillary systems failing, paint flaking off, etc.

We now drive a '15 Tundra.

Look for a Tundra in rust free climes if that is a worry and I would echo the comments of others here to get a maint. history.

Better to pay a bit more to get something you do not have to virtually rebuild in the first 12 months of ownership...