The death of a bike shop

[Elefantino]

There's a shop here in Oakland that has been a cool niche shop for the last 14 years. Pegs, Mootses, high end stuff. Also its own line of TIG welded steel beauties, from track and city bikes to bad-ass roadies.

On Feb. 1, he closes the shop part to concentrate on building. Sad.

There was a time when I fantasized about buying said shop. And, oddly, one of my regular customers at my current shop found out about the imminent closing and wanted partner to buy the shuttering retail operation and keep it afloat.

It's just too tough a market these days. Too bad. Good shops are increasingly hard to find.

[cmg]

is he closing because of lack of sales or because he wants to build frames? "On Feb. 1, he closes the shop part to concentrate on building." you would think that sales would generate more profit than building custom frames.

[eddief]

http://montanovelo.com/

[beeatnik]

The Bay Area is so weird.

[FlashUNC]

Went by a couple times. Didn't feel all that welcome as a customer. All the best on the Broakland stuff. Always fun to see one of those out on the road.

[oldpotatoe]

There's a shop here in Oakland that has been a cool niche shop for the last 14 years. Pegs, Mootses, high end stuff. Also its own line of TIG welded steel beauties, from track and city bikes to bad-ass roadies.

On Feb. 1, he closes the shop part to concentrate on building. Sad.

There was a time when I fantasized about buying said shop. And, oddly, one of my regular customers at my current shop found out about the imminent closing and wanted partner to buy the shuttering retail operation and keep it afloat.

It's just too tough a market these days. Too bad. Good shops are increasingly hard to find.

It can be. To try to compete with the interweb is very hard(impossible?). Gotta have economy of scale, Identify a market segment and aggressively pursue that, like very knowledgable service, with people to match.

Boutique stuff will normally do well if done well. Things, like a Campag/Moots, that you can't get on the 'web'.

Guy wants to buy a Peg and bring you all the parts? Go right ahead sir..but charge labor for a superior and perfect build. And wrong front der? Sorry sir.

"Good shops" are most often 'Good SERVICE shops'. Ones that are friendly, try to help, don't get sweated up when somebody asks about some gizmo when they probably will buy it online(price of doin' biz these days)..That same guy 'may' come buy somethin', because he got good, FREE, advice.

But retail is tough, bike retail, since the 'bike' is a mixture of parts, even more so.

I miss the 'bike' part of 'bike biz', I don't miss the 'biz' part at all.

And for Climb, right below. And this happened in Vecchio's..somebody comes in, we always, Hi, 'good morning', whatever. 'If we can help you, type thing..always the same..

THEN, different people, 'they wouldn't stop bugging me', or 'they ignored me'....same greeting..retail is tough.

[Climb01742]

Went by a couple times. Didn't feel all that welcome as a customer.

Speaking in general, not this specific shop, but ^^ this is the most common feeling when you walk into a shop these days. Of course there are exceptions and they're the ones that survive and succeed. I know retail is tough but it's always baffled me why bike shops are so often unwelcoming while many other kinds of retail shops understand that sales begin with a simple 'hi'.

[Ti Designs]

I read this a while back, as it was posted on the email list of a group I ride with:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/the-best-bike-shop-in-the-world-48733/

At first it annoyed me because I've been in the bike biz for 30 years, and everybody seems to forget that it's a business - you don't see things like that about the best law firm in the world, do you? People so often confuse a bike business for a community service. As much as I would love to hang out in a bike cafe all day, talk bikes, fix flats and show tour videos, I have a mortgage, bills and the occasional need to eat.

That said, the bike community is a little different than the population that walks into a law firm needing legal advice. People need their services. How many people walk into a doctors office just to talk about health? Ever gone to the local car garage to talk about synthetic oils? Nobody does that, but more than half our foot traffic at the shop is just that - someone dropped in to see the new Pinarello or feel how light an Enve stem is. They would love a good cup of coffee and a place to chat too - that's pretty much what the Ride Studio Cafe is. Add to that a series of rides to build a stronger community and you have the best little bike shop in the world. Reality check: does that cover the expenses of running such a shop? At some point you really have look at the bottom line. What are the expenses? Retail space ain't cheap. Where does the income come from? Are people buying coffee, or do they just expect there to be coffee?

In reading that article I thought about my own coaching business. This year's goal is to look at the bottom line and decide if it's time to get myself a retail space to run my own classes. The doors wouldn't be open 24/7, I don't do coffee, and from running pedal stroke classes for years I know how poorly people treat things they don't own. What I've learned from coaching is that it's all about building the cycling community. This year Ian and I started running old school group rides (no cue sheets, no GPS files, just follow the ride leader) as a way to build that community. Building that best bike shop in the world isn't just about how you make a small fortune in the bike biz (start with a large fortune), there need to be a number of things that come together. People willing to run rides, people willing to run events (or even just take responsibility to show a movie without wrecking the place). Mostly what it takes is the realization that nothing is free, but some things are worth it.

[Ralph]

The world is changing though. We live with constant change. I retired from the financial services business in 1998 because it was changing, and the way I made my living in the 70's, 80's, and 90's just didn't exist anymore. I hear the same story from people in health care, law, accounting, auto service, restaurant business, etc, etc, etc. But yet....some people in those businesses are thriving....they have adapted to change and a new way (but maybe at a lower pay scale).

If I were going back to work in my old profession....I would not try at Merrill Lynch again....I would apply at Charles Schwab. I believe this general idea applies to the bike biz also. When I started at Merrill in the late 70's, a 1000 share stock order had a $500 commission.....at Schwab I do that now for $8.95. Yet Schwab is still profitable...so they make their money in other ways....maybe in ways the average customer not so sensitive to. They have adapted.

As above and others note.....the basic rules to run a successful business haven't really changed.....it's still about outstanding customer service. And that something "extra" that some still successful businesses figure out...and some don't.

And to add to above....we also know that there has never been a better time to start a business (of some sort).....if you can figure it all out.

Point is.....how is it different now than in the past? It's a tough world out there.

[jensenn]

this is very sad and surprising news to me. loved that shop. spent many days there looking at all the things i couldn't afford as a broke college student. i always made it my midway stop on my east bay loop.

i actually have the very first, not fully confirmed, broakland track bike. top tube was dented, which i had bernie mikkelsen replace after he recovered from his stroke. after that, i had a local builder in ny add cable stops and replace the seat stay bridge to accommodate a brake.

[ultraman6970]

Market is hard now, but there will be somebody willing to pay the price all the time. I do have a question tho, if a shop margins are like 30% ish... (making up stuff), there are some items just because they worth nothing the margins are like 100% or even more...

Now, u have one X manufacturer that obviously will charge his part because they have to make money, but then from the manufacturer the stuff pass maybe by 2 or 3 other guys that charge maybe 30% aswell, at the point the goods are in the bikeshop the stuff is already over priced for a lot, obviously to me, if the chain was shorter probably LBS would be more competitive, now my question is, after a good get off a factory, how many hands touched that item before arriving to the LBS?? 3? 4???

Asking because I have the feeling since years ago that the industry is being killed by the industry itself.

[93legendti]

The same forum that celebrates low group prices (duty free) from U.K. bemoans the death of another LBS...

[jr59]

It can be. To try to compete with the interweb is very hard(impossible?). Gotta have economy of scale, Identify a market segment and aggressively pursue that, like very knowledgable service, with people to match.

Boutique stuff will normally do well if done well. Things, like a Campag/Moots, that you can't get on the 'web'.

Guy wants to buy a Peg and bring you all the parts? Go right ahead sir..but charge labor for a superior and perfect build. And wrong front der? Sorry sir.

"Good shops" are most often 'Good SERVICE shops'. Ones that are friendly, try to help, don't get sweated up when somebody asks about some gizmo when they probably will buy it online(price of doin' biz these days)..That same guy 'may' come buy somethin', because he got good, FREE, advice.

But retail is tough, bike retail, since the 'bike' is a mixture of parts, even more so.

I miss the 'bike' part of 'bike biz', I don't miss the 'biz' part at all.

And for Climb, right below. And this happened in Vecchio's..somebody comes in, we always, Hi, 'good morning', whatever. 'If we can help you, type thing..always the same..

THEN, different people, 'they wouldn't stop bugging me', or 'they ignored me'....same greeting..retail is tough.


Peter gets it. He should, for as long as he was in the business. Retail is changing, its gone and I don't think it's coming back any time soon. So all retail needs to rethink the way they do business, and how they manage cash flow. It's no longer just buy this product and keystone the price. You have to find, or have something that the customer can not buy on line. In the bike business, I would think that would be service. Maybe I should say SERVICE! Bike fitting would be included, but I tend to ask myself, how many bike fittings can I sell to one customer? While excellent service will happen over and over. And I'm not talking about just fixing the bikes correctly, as a lot of people can offer that. But identifying your customers needs and providing them that. Being quick and pleasant and correct in answering questions. Many others, but you get the idea. I'm not at all sure I would want to tie up my capital in any major bike lines, as the models change to quickly. So something like Moots, or something along those lines. I would look for lines that can not be bought online.

[Tickdoc]

It's not just the bike business, it is retail across the board.

It sucks because it takes the feel it, pick it up, try it before you buy it realness of a purchase out of the purchase.

Last bike I bought new was a fun experience for me. I tried a few out after a quick set up of my pedals and saddle/handlebar fit. It takes time to swap pedals, fit and measure to set someone up for a test ride. That time spent let me get to know my bike shop guys better. It also confirmed for me that I didn't want the bike I thought I went in there wanting. The test ride revealed which bike was going to be mine. I paid a decent rate for the bike (on closeout, but still a big chunk of change for this cheapskate) then I went back for a proper fitting.

The relationship formed during that made them my go to guys and even though I am not one of their target customers anymore, they still service me and any of my bikes with care. I send anyone who wants to know where to go there every time. Even when I go in not to buy but just to chat it's just like visiting old friends.

Like Peter said, I brought a frame and a box of goodies and they built me a bike that I didn't buy there. I paid for the work (and tipped) and the mechanic even gave me a set of handlebars from his personal collection to complete the build. Win win.

I spent a few hours shopping with my wife yesterday and the two big stores we went to were just pathetic. Macy's and Best buy. Both were thinly-stocked, dirty, and poorly staffed. You have to really look to find a genuine caring human being on the other end. They are just there doing their job, and poorly at that.

I used to buy work clothes at a nice clothing store, where I used the same guy every time, and he would show me what he thought I liked and take care of any alterations needed. I know I paid a little extra for the clothes, but they were a little extra special in my mind at the time and I enjoyed the experience. Now I dress like a casual slub and buy everything on the internet.

Internet broke the model imo because we are too cheap and too impatient to invest the time and energy and/or money to seek out a better experience.

Sorry to see this one go, even though I have never been there.

[Tickdoc]

The same forum that celebrates low group prices (duty free) from U.K. bemoans the death of another LBS...

Yes and no. I love getting a good deal...who doesn't. For me, the appeal of the UK shops is that they offer something I can't find here easily (campy).

[oldpotatoe]

Market is hard now, but there will be somebody willing to pay the price all the time. I do have a question tho, if a shop margins are like 30% ish... (making up stuff), there are some items just because they worth nothing the margins are like 100% or even more...

Now, u have one X manufacturer that obviously will charge his part because they have to make money, but then from the manufacturer the stuff pass maybe by 2 or 3 other guys that charge maybe 30% aswell, at the point the goods are in the bikeshop the stuff is already over priced for a lot, obviously to me, if the chain was shorter probably LBS would be more competitive, now my question is, after a good get off a factory, how many hands touched that item before arriving to the LBS?? 3? 4???

Asking because I have the feeling since years ago that the industry is being killed by the industry itself.

Most of what you see in US bike retail isn't 'overpriced'. A successful retail place need a minimum 'margin' of about 35-37%. That's to break even at the end of the year. No more debt, no net profit either. That means divide the cost by .65-.63 to get price. Some things can sell for a bigger margin. Bikes, considering the cost to sell, build, service, are the lowest margin 'thing' in a bike shop.

What you are describing, particularly in Europe is a different playing field. Many distributors, those who sell to bike shops, also sell direct to consumers. They get their stuff from the manufacturer..they get the same margin regardless of who buys it.

In the US, with a couple of exceptions, distributors only sell to retail places, don't sell direct..why the prices are higher..yes, an additional 'layer' of distribution.

Manufacturers going direct to retail would lower prices but that's really expensive to do.

So I kinda wince when somebody says stuff at a bike shop is overpriced. It is higher, certainly, than MO but at a survival margin.

[54ny77]

Not ironically, both firms, esp. the former, are in a world of hurt.

Look at Sears. Former global powerhouse, now basically liquidating. Lampert ran that in the ground for sure, but it likely would have happened to anyone who owned it eventually.

The most successful small retailers own their physical space. That's the most important way to shape your destiny and build equity in a s&^%! margin world.

Beyond that, add value value value however you need to define it. Typically, that comes with embracing each & every customer and providing the best service they've ever had. And say hi when they walk in. And get very involved with the community.

The irony is the industry that is killing retail, the internet (Amazon) is coming full circle and is now looking to open physical spaces. For the life of me I don't understand that strategy, but so be it. They're smarter than I am.

I've known a few bike shop owners. Like any business, there are those who get it and do it right, and those who just don't (or give up for any variety of reasons). The former have thrived, the latter folded.


I spent a few hours shopping with my wife yesterday and the two big stores we went to were just pathetic. Macy's and Best buy. Both were thinly-stocked, dirty, and poorly staffed. You have to really look to find a genuine caring human being on the other end. They are just there doing their job, and poorly at that.

[Duende]

Just reading this. Bummed... :(

Really liked those guys. Kind genuine folks and excellent mechanics.

I wish them the best. But man, a good bike shop is hard to find.

[Mzilliox]

The same forum that celebrates low group prices (duty free) from U.K. bemoans the death of another LBS...

welcome to America, where things are cheap, but quality is gone

[Gummee]

Winter is tough in the bike business... I've had one customer in since 1000 and he bought $40 worth of stuff.

Hard to pay bills on that $40.

The 'casual cyclist' doesn't ride when it's cold out.
They don't ride when it isn't sunny
They don't ride enough to bring their bikes in more than once every 18mos or so unless they've done something to it: flats typically. Ya gotta change a LOT of flats at $10 labor per to make rent

IOW It ain't easy.

LBSes aren't typically for 'the enthusiast.' They're for BSO fixing and the 'step up from a box store bike' purchasers. We really shouldn't have too many Domanes or other 'high end' road bikes in the store, but it's not my buying decision.

I'm not sure what the answer is tho. If I did, I'd make more $$ than I do now

M

[alancw3]

so grew up in the 50's and early 60's when msrp was standard and what separated stores was the quality of service. i can see a lot of benefit to the discounters but i have to say perhaps we were better off under the "old" system. just saying. i am sure that others would disagree as they like to haggle for the best price. i personally think that we have all fallen into a price scenario that the big companies embrace. just saying.

[Duende]

The same forum that celebrates low group prices (duty free) from U.K. bemoans the death of another LBS...

Totally!

I bought my Waterford fully built out by a local shop, including the campy record gruppo which wasn't cheap!

This last build I got the gruppo online, but everything else local except the wheels which I had made by an American builder.

I had tried to strike a healthy balance between the two, but ultimately, my net take away, is that while buying the gruppo online saved me money short term... I'll be paying double for it long term.

We can't have both. Either cheap prices from faceless online stores, or customer service by skilled folks. Got to pay to play, and I'm making a conscious decision to go with the later.

Heck if I can't afford the MSRP (or reasonably close to it), I'll just wait a bit longer until I can or do without.

[peanutgallery]

If people want to buy ****e on the interwebs, let em. Amazon, the UK etc

A successful lbs focuses on what they can control, not the crap they can't. Support brands that are not racing to the bottom online and stridently protect their pricing and distribution. Provide an incredible level of service and don't be a wuss about what you charge. When a gigantor customer comes in with a wiggle sourced, 165 campy crank for his ill fitting, 15 year old litespeed with a 1 onch steerer...sieze the opportunity. Set him straight with a smile and put him on what he needs, could even wind up being a modern new bike. Listen, pay attention and provide solutions. You win most of the time

Inventory...control it. Be smart about what you stock and utilize the tools provided by premium distributors like specialized or qbp that are like a day away. That way you can stock enough to sell things and size customers where needed and get the product quickly. A shop can easily churn out custom wheels in a day or 2 without having a bunch of stuff in stock. Both qbp and specialized warehouse stuff, use it. Don't listen to your heart and stock what you love, pay attention to the metrics provided by your point of sale. Don't get floorplanned and take advantage of terms to steal a march. Free shipping too

Pay your bills...on time

Work a bunch

Own your building

Hire, train and maintain a quality staff, treat it as a valuable investment that requires skill, $ and guile

Be careful when and where you discount

Remember that youre a business and not a community service dropoff center for MAMILS with droopy lycra. Pick your moments in this department

Sound simple? In theory it is. The practical model is something else. It can be tough, but any small business is. Can be rewarding and you can make a decent living

[adub]

The same forum that celebrates low group prices (duty free) from U.K. bemoans the death of another LBS...

Totally disagree with this statement. If someone can buy the same exact new product from overseas at 50-60% less than a local LBS will sell it for, why wouldn't they?

Markets and market conditions obviously change over time. I find it odd how many talk of the LBS like they are a not-for-profit charity that we should rally behind. They are no different than any other business, the ones that should stay in business will stay in business. No different than any other business. it is tough!

[Ronsonic]

The same forum that celebrates low group prices (duty free) from U.K. bemoans the death of another LBS...

That's the world we live in. My favorite shop, Velo-Champ here in Tampa has been fighting for and apparently winning a healthy niche. It's tough, some products more than others. They do mainly cross/gravel/commuter and single speed stuff. And, do it very well.

Service cannot be imported duty-free and can't be off-shored (which is why I'm still fed).

[peanutgallery]

Wiggle can't install it and most consumers are too big of a maroon to figure out what they need. So people buy the wrong stuff and unless you're in the educated minority its a terrible venue to acquire stuff for the sport we all supposedly love. The UK thing is an outlier at the moment, rules will change and it will dry up. Remember when netflix had decent movies and was really cheap?

There will continue to be market changes and I am willing to bet you will see more suppliers fall by the wayside if they pursue the wiggle way. Strong suppliers MAP, weak ones dump their crap.

Biggest problem with bike shops is generally the idiot that runs it. Some MAMIL getting a 4 year old shifter from UK is not the problem. Who cares, but it is a great opportunity to set them up and sell them more stuff

I would support MAMILS using their online purchasing to get new shorts. Preferably real baggies, not lycra that has turned into a basketball short

Totally disagree with this statement. If someone can buy the same exact new product from overseas at 50-60% less than a local LBS will sell it for, why wouldn't they?

Markets and market conditions obviously change over time. I find it odd how many talk of the LBS like they are a not-for-profit charity that we should rally behind. They are no different than any other business, the ones that should stay in business will stay in business. No different than any other business. it is tough!

[pdmtong]

as for the ship in question, it was a pretty cool place. Been stopping by off and on since inception. its a few feet from Fenton's and down the street from where all my mom's side is buried. Last thing I saw in there was a responsorium ciavete painted in a manovello variant a guy bought for a big birthday.

[livingminimal]

The same forum that celebrates low group prices (duty free) from U.K. bemoans the death of another LBS...


This.

[livingminimal]

Totally disagree with this statement. If someone can buy the same exact new product from overseas at 50-60% less than a local LBS will sell it for, why wouldn't they?

Markets and market conditions obviously change over time. I find it odd how many talk of the LBS like they are a not-for-profit charity that we should rally behind. They are no different than any other business, the ones that should stay in business will stay in business. No different than any other business. it is tough!

You disagree? You're wrong.

His commentary is on the people, not on their business decisions.

Re-read what he said carefully.

[nmrt]

No need to argue here. History will tell us whose is wrong. As a matter of fact, it already has.


You disagree? You're wrong.

His commentary is on the people, not on their business decisions.

Re-read what he said carefully.

[Ronsonic]

Wiggle can't install it and most consumers are too big of a maroon to figure out what they need. So people buy the wrong stuff and unless you're in the educated minority its a terrible venue to acquire stuff for the sport we all supposedly love. The UK thing is an outlier at the moment, rules will change and it will dry up. Remember when netflix had decent movies and was really cheap?

There will continue to be market changes and I am willing to bet you will see more suppliers fall by the wayside if they pursue the wiggle way. Strong suppliers MAP, weak ones dump their crap.

You're probably spot on with all of this. It will be interesting to see the consequences of recent political changes on both sides of the Atlantic. Aside from the obvious of Brexit and American anti-globalist tendencies, there's been a whiff of Anglo-sphere alignment in the air.


Biggest problem with bike shops is generally the idiot that runs it. Some MAMIL getting a 4 year old shifter from UK is not the problem. Who cares, but it is a great opportunity to set them up and sell them more stuff

This, I've met so many complete morons in bike shops it's almost frightening. Usually, the ones who aren't incompetent are crazed up-sell fanatics. Then there's the one local shop I like and completely trust.

[/QUOTE]I would support MAMILS using their online purchasing to get new shorts. Preferably real baggies, not lycra that has turned into a basketball short[/QUOTE]

The basketball shorts aren't nearly as bad as the gauzy ones. But yes, new bibs for everyone. Black bibs.

[jtakeda]

My favorite shop. I'll miss it dearly.

Extremely high level customer service and mechanic competency.
Not sure where I'll go for bike stuff.

Best of luck to Jason and don't forget about Daniel, check out tumbleweed bikes

[weisan]

Sorry y'all lost me on this one: MAMIL

What does it stand for? :D

But Google got me through the dark times once again....

Mamil or MAMIL (an acronym standing for "middle-aged man in lycra".) is someone who rides an expensive racing bicycle for leisure, wearing professional style body-hugging jerseys and shorts. The word was reportedly coined by British marketing research firm Mintel in 2010.
Mamil - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamil

[crankles]

Goddammit...I've known Jason and Pops for some time. Glad, At least just the shop portion is closing. What I find most interesting is that the Broakland line is still going despite the original builder moving to Oregon. WHos building them now? they look like Falconers to my eye.
I'll need to swing by and say bye.

ps. I too thought of buying the shop when the tri-shop was going under. Jason was the mechanic and got right of first refusal though.

THere's a lot more local competition now than 14 years ago too. Cyclesports has been around the longest, but Bay Bikes and now King Kog are close by.

There's a shop here in Oakland that has been a cool niche shop for the last 14 years. Pegs, Mootses, high end stuff. Also its own line of TIG welded steel beauties, from track and city bikes to bad-ass roadies.

On Feb. 1, he closes the shop part to concentrate on building. Sad.

There was a time when I fantasized about buying said shop. And, oddly, one of my regular customers at my current shop found out about the imminent closing and wanted partner to buy the shuttering retail operation and keep it afloat.

It's just too tough a market these days. Too bad. Good shops are increasingly hard to find.

[oldpotatoe]

If people want to buy ****e on the interwebs, let em. Amazon, the UK etc

A successful lbs focuses on what they can control, not the crap they can't. Support brands that are not racing to the bottom online and stridently protect their pricing and distribution. Provide an incredible level of service and don't be a wuss about what you charge. When a gigantor customer comes in with a wiggle sourced, 165 campy crank for his ill fitting, 15 year old litespeed with a 1 onch steerer...sieze the opportunity. Set him straight with a smile and put him on what he needs, could even wind up being a modern new bike. Listen, pay attention and provide solutions. You win most of the time

Inventory...control it. Be smart about what you stock and utilize the tools provided by premium distributors like specialized or qbp that are like a day away. That way you can stock enough to sell things and size customers where needed and get the product quickly. A shop can easily churn out custom wheels in a day or 2 without having a bunch of stuff in stock. Both qbp and specialized warehouse stuff, use it. Don't listen to your heart and stock what you love, pay attention to the metrics provided by your point of sale. Don't get floorplanned and take advantage of terms to steal a march. Free shipping too

Pay your bills...on time

Work a bunch

Own your building

Hire, train and maintain a quality staff, treat it as a valuable investment that requires skill, $ and guile

Be careful when and where you discount

Remember that youre a business and not a community service dropoff center for MAMILS with droopy lycra. Pick your moments in this department

Sound simple? In theory it is. The practical model is something else. It can be tough, but any small business is. Can be rewarding and you can make a decent living

BIG thumb's up on this post. So many good points, I need to 'BOLD' the whole thing.

If you aren't working 60-70 hours a week, it's not full time. Peanutgallery gets it.

[weisan]

Seriously, a lot of practical wisdom there in peanut pal's post. Theory. Practice. Differentiator.

[livingminimal]

No need to argue here. History will tell us whose is wrong. As a matter of fact, it already has.

"The same forum that celebrates low group prices (duty free) from U.K. bemoans the death of another LBS..."

The forum are the people here, posting, even on this thread.
They're bemoaning the loss of an LBS (as they always do when these threads start)
then they turn around and shop on Wiggle.

His argument isn't that the internet is winning. Of course it is.

Whys that difficult to understand?

[shovelhd]

BIG thumb's up on this post. So many good points, I need to 'BOLD' the whole thing.

If you aren't working 60-70 hours a week, it's not full time. Peanutgallery gets it.

One of the best posts on the subject. Well done peanut.

[Mzilliox]

BIG thumb's up on this post. So many good points, I need to 'BOLD' the whole thing.

If you aren't working 60-70 hours a week, it's not full time. Peanutgallery gets it.

this applies to most every small business and their owner, hard workers who are clever figure it out. people who simply hated having a boss and are trying for a lifestyle will most often falter. well stated gents, there is hope, but like anything, one must work for it, and work smart and hard.

[Gummee]

So a guy came in to the shop while I was on vacation with a mid-90s DS Trek mtn bike that was 'skipping under load'

Pointed out the rim was bent on top of everything else and started going over options. Found out he doesn't ride off-road, just gravel so I started talking to him about DS3s. We didn't have the one I was suggesting in his size, so he went online and found last year's 8.3 on sale. Couldn't understand why the one I was recommending was $880 while the one online was '45% off.' In his mind, there wasn't a difference between the 2 bikes being discussed and couldn't understand why he should pay $880 to get 'the same thing'

That was after a test ride on a DS2 of the right size. I think I've spend about an hour with this guy so far going over whosits and whatsits. Even showed him that Trek was out of the model he was looking at online!

Such is the life sometimes.

We *may* make $100 selling that DS3 after all's said and done. If he brings in a bike from online, we're going to make almost that building it up for him, so all's not lost.

M

[gemship]

The same forum that celebrates low group prices (duty free) from U.K. bemoans the death of another LBS...

Ha,ha thank you for the laugh and to add to it same said forum will berate a forumite over "bro deals" in it's classified section. I mean it's autmatically assumed that everything for sale is a "fire sale, bro deal" kinda schwag...

[gemship]

Seriously, a lot of practical wisdom there in peanut pal's post. Theory. Practice. Differentiator.

Yes, yes and yes but let's define "decent living"....

For example I love bikes and fiddling with tools but a long, long time ago I was told not to sheet where I eat.

[Red Tornado]

To echo many others who have already chimed in, SERVICE is a biggie for me regarding the LBS. I have come to accept the fact that none of my local shops will carry all the brand's I want at prices equal to/less than online. When I can, or want to, I will substitute, but not always willing to do that. Not a problem, that's just the way it is. Service, good advice and friendly but not smothering staff are what will make me want to return. And return I shall if they can deliver on the three criteria I mentioned. In fact, the better they deliver, the more likely I am to return for parts, maybe even a complete bike or something like that. Deliver where you can & the public will honor that.

[beeatnik]

If people want to buy ****e on the interwebs, let em. Amazon, the UK etc

A successful lbs focuses on what they can control, not the crap they can't. Support brands that are not racing to the bottom online and stridently protect their pricing and distribution. Provide an incredible level of service and don't be a wuss about what you charge. When a gigantor customer comes in with a wiggle sourced, 165 campy crank for his ill fitting, 15 year old litespeed with a 1 onch steerer...sieze the opportunity. Set him straight with a smile and put him on what he needs, could even wind up being a modern new bike. Listen, pay attention and provide solutions. You win most of the time

Inventory...control it. Be smart about what you stock and utilize the tools provided by premium distributors like specialized or qbp that are like a day away. That way you can stock enough to sell things and size customers where needed and get the product quickly. A shop can easily churn out custom wheels in a day or 2 without having a bunch of stuff in stock. Both qbp and specialized warehouse stuff, use it. Don't listen to your heart and stock what you love, pay attention to the metrics provided by your point of sale. Don't get floorplanned and take advantage of terms to steal a march. Free shipping too

Pay your bills...on time

Work a bunch

Own your building

Hire, train and maintain a quality staff, treat it as a valuable investment that requires skill, $ and guile

Be careful when and where you discount

Remember that youre a business and not a community service dropoff center for MAMILS with droopy lycra. Pick your moments in this department

Sound simple? In theory it is. The practical model is something else. It can be tough, but any small business is. Can be rewarding and you can make a decent living

There isn't a single shop in SoCal doing the above. And, yet, they stay in business.

Bicycle retail is so weird.

[fogrider]

bike shops have never made money selling parts...they sell bikes and like others have pointed out, provide service. the thing about bikes is that there is a full range, from kid's bikes to pro racers and everything in between. and customers to match. it's hard to put on a smile for everyone, but that's what retail is about.

a LBS contacted Canyon Bikes to see if they could be a dealer...the response was no. They sell direct and bikes are fully assembled, no need for a LBS. I don't know if Canyon is trying to put LBS out of business, but they are not helping.

[fogrider]

oddly, Rapha has built their business doing this...

I read this a while back, as it was posted on the email list of a group I ride with:

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/the-best-bike-shop-in-the-world-48733/

At first it annoyed me because I've been in the bike biz for 30 years, and everybody seems to forget that it's a business - you don't see things like that about the best law firm in the world, do you? People so often confuse a bike business for a community service. As much as I would love to hang out in a bike cafe all day, talk bikes, fix flats and show tour videos, I have a mortgage, bills and the occasional need to eat.

That said, the bike community is a little different than the population that walks into a law firm needing legal advice. People need their services. How many people walk into a doctors office just to talk about health? Ever gone to the local car garage to talk about synthetic oils? Nobody does that, but more than half our foot traffic at the shop is just that - someone dropped in to see the new Pinarello or feel how light an Enve stem is. They would love a good cup of coffee and a place to chat too - that's pretty much what the Ride Studio Cafe is. Add to that a series of rides to build a stronger community and you have the best little bike shop in the world. Reality check: does that cover the expenses of running such a shop? At some point you really have look at the bottom line. What are the expenses? Retail space ain't cheap. Where does the income come from? Are people buying coffee, or do they just expect there to be coffee?

In reading that article I thought about my own coaching business. This year's goal is to look at the bottom line and decide if it's time to get myself a retail space to run my own classes. The doors wouldn't be open 24/7, I don't do coffee, and from running pedal stroke classes for years I know how poorly people treat things they don't own. What I've learned from coaching is that it's all about building the cycling community. This year Ian and I started running old school group rides (no cue sheets, no GPS files, just follow the ride leader) as a way to build that community. Building that best bike shop in the world isn't just about how you make a small fortune in the bike biz (start with a large fortune), there need to be a number of things that come together. People willing to run rides, people willing to run events (or even just take responsibility to show a movie without wrecking the place). Mostly what it takes is the realization that nothing is free, but some things are worth it.

[Waldo]

I have a garage full of bikes, stock and custom, just one of them (a Zunow from Karim's) purchased at a LBS. I am a symptom...

[OtayBW]

Just a brief comment from the opposite side of the fence as we bemoan (unfortunately so, in most cases) the demise of the LBS. I can think of one very well known shop in a state where I used to live that will not see any more of my business, and I've spent a fair bit more than $10K in there over time. Extremely rude and arrogant behavior from at least one person in there on multiple occasions has soured me completely - and that is hard to do with me in a well-stocked bike shop. If you read the online reviews, you'll find ~1 in 3 reviews is extremely low (1 out of 5), with the same customer service problem described. Take the online reviews with a grain of salt if you like, but there are many dozens of reviews that are nearly identical in this way. This LBS seems to succeed even in spite of themselves.

So I echo the sentiment of hiring good people, training them well, and taking care of your customer service interests. Customer loyalty - or, at least not alienating your clientele - is important.

[Black Dog]

Just a brief comment from the opposite side of the fence as we bemoan (unfortunately so, in most cases) the demise of the LBS. I can think of one very well known shop in a state where I used to live that will not see any more of my business, and I've spent a fair bit more than $10K in there over time. Extremely rude and arrogant behavior from at least one person in there on multiple occasions has soured me completely - and that is hard to do with me in a well-stocked bike shop. If you read the online reviews, you'll find ~1 in 3 reviews is extremely low (1 out of 5), with the same customer service problem described. Take the online reviews with a grain of salt if you like, but there are many dozens of reviews that are nearly identical in this way. This LBS seems to succeed even in spite of themselves.

So I echo the sentiment of hiring good people, training them well, and taking care of your customer service interests. Customer loyalty - or, at least not alienating your clientele - is important.

Have you thought about letting the owner know? Sometimes a bad employee can fly under the radar and the owner may be grateful for the feedback. At least of the owner is an ass you know that you made the right call.

[OtayBW]

Have you thought about letting the owner know? Sometimes a bad employee can fly under the radar and the owner may be grateful for the feedback. At least of the owner is an ass you know that you made the right call. This is long ago water under the bridge, but sure - I did contact the owner after the 2nd or 3rd incident. We had a good faith conversation and he was interested, but that apparently did not change the behavior because it has become kind of notorious as I later learned. Same person(s) were still working there last time I checked.

Not a problem though; just kind of ironic in some ways....