Oper Puer Ques

[Jason E]

Ok, so all these names came out, and now the guys from Astana Wurth get cleared and today the Communidad guys get cleared.

What the hell? Did they do it or not? It seems like they blow the top off this huge deal, implicate all these people and then say, "oops, my bad".

Shotgun approach? Not really fair.

[Avispa]

It's a similar problem as we have here in the US, bro... Think about it.

You see, we (the congress, not the people) vote to go to war over something that is not 100% proven, yet when the truth comes out, no one has the balls to punish or tell the truth. The main reason is because there are too many powerful hands in the pot! That includes guys from both sides of the issue...

Same old game at different levels and situations. What bothers me is that if a poor mechanic, let's say would get caught stealing a Campy brake pad, he/she would probably get fired, for good!

[coylifut]

it's not a doping investigation, it's a criminal investigation. Do you remember Richard Jewell? He never even got an apolgy.

[e-RICHIE]

man did richard jewell get a major league public hanging or what atmo?
wrt the racers, they lost a tdf oppotrunity. beloki supposedly retires.
who and what can offer redemption to these cats? and seperately,
basso is in the news wrt to transfer speculation. ullrich too, kinda'.
did their respective teams offer any consolation to them, assuming
that, they too, are each cleared?






ps where is sally fields atmo?
(not that it would help...)

[Ahneida Ride]

It's a similar problem as we have here in the US, bro... Think about it.

You see, we (the congress, not the people) vote to go to war over something that is not 100% proven, yet when the truth comes out, no one has the balls to punish or tell the truth. The main reason is because there are too many powerful hands in the pot! That includes guys from both sides of the issue...

Same old game at different levels and situations. What bothers me is that if a poor mechanic, let's say would get caught stealing a Campy brake pad, he/she would probably get fired, for good!

Amen Bro. But not 1 American in 100 has the guts to write their Congressman or to get active in polictics.

The real problem is Congress never did vote to go to war as the US Constitution mandates. Neither did they in Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Gulf I, Gulf II.

If they did, They would have a position. It is far better to be nebulous.

Only Congress can declare war.

[harlond]

Ok, so all these names came out, and now the guys from Astana Wurth get cleared and today the Communidad guys get cleared.

What the hell? Did they do it or not? It seems like they blow the top off this huge deal, implicate all these people and then say, "oops, my bad".

Shotgun approach? Not really fair.I have no special knowledge or insight, but it is my understanding that since Spain has no criminal prohibition against athletic doping, OP was conducted as an investigation into a crime against public health. It is difficult to imagine a statute prohibiting crimes against public health in which the recipients of the health services--here the riders--could be charged with crimes. If that is correct, then "clearing" the riders of any potential charges under OP says very little about whether the riders doped or not. It would be more meaningful if Fuentes was cleared.

I don't intend this to be taken as approval of OP or disapproval of any riders. FWIW, I'm with Sally Field on this subject.

[goonster]

Shotgun approach? Not really fair.

It's not meant to be fair. It's meant to root out doping.

They way I understand it, there is a "rule" (dunno if this from ProTour, UCI, ASO, or all of the above) that says that a rider under investigation can't race. Like somebody else said, this isn't equivalent to a firing or conviction, it's a "suspended on full pay while we check out the allegations" sort of deal.

This policy is meant to err on the side of caution, but in this case, of course, the results were completely disproportionate and a terrible injustice was committed.

I suppose one could call up Pat McQuaid's house on the eve of the Tour and say, "Dude, I totally saw Moreau in the park behind some bushes hitting the crack pipe" and Christophe would be benched for a year while the prosecutor's office "investigates."

Like Prudhomme said. "The fight against doping is a never ending combat, a true trench war." Fix bayonets then, and prepare for plenty of scorched earth and collateral damage. :rolleyes:

[Fat Robert]

correct me if i'm wrong -- i probably am

the riders from astana weren't linked conclusively to fuentes. same with CV.

as for the possible prosecution of named riders, i gathered from reading the cyclingnews.com reports that they were cleared of *legal* charges in spain -- that the police and prosecutor were trying to pursue it as a public health matter, but that there was no compelling precedent or statute for proceding with the matter under spanish law; therefore, they were not cleared of doping charges by a cycling body, but they *were* cleared of any criminal charges by a civil body.


loopholes, bro.

do i need to re-read that crap? did i miss something? the sport sucks when you need a lawyer to help you be a fan.

[goonster]

i gathered from reading the cyclingnews.com reports that they were cleared of *legal* charges in spain

That's how I understand it too.

The UCI/ASO/WADA's capacity to gather its own evidence, other than kindly asking people to "testify" at meetings, is basically limited to analyzing samples provided by the riders. They cannot, for example, barge into hotel rooms at 3am and conduct searches, afaik. It takes cops to do that, and they need probably cause and a judicial warrant, I hope. (Although the warrants are probably pretty easy to get)

If none of these riders can be linked to Fuentes, why is the dropping of charges and non-sanction by the governing bodies a "loophole"?

Could it really be that nothing sticks to these riders, after all this brou-ha-ha and the effective elimination of two full teams?

[Samster]

what do they call it?... due process???

... or perhaps lack thereof.

[Climb01742]

a truly sad element of this is the police are now investigating this kind of stuff because the cycling federations won't. and i read today, somewhere, that cycling federations are hoping the police get more involved, since the federations have no power to wire tap, video tape, etc. sad state of affairs.

[e-RICHIE]

a truly sad element of this is the police are now investigating this kind of stuff because the cycling federations won't. and i read today, somewhere, that cycling federations are hoping the police get more involved, since the federations have no power to wire tap, video tape, etc. sad state of affairs.
the feds shouldn't waste time on pro athletes.
our google searches would reveal more atmo.

[Fat Robert]

loophole:

(cue phil hartman's "attorney" from The Simpson's)

"why yes, your honor, and the spanish federation, my client is indeed a walking walgreen's. but, since there is no law against the administration of drugs by a licensed practicioner, and no law against the use of PEDs, we must see my client as the finest of young men. furthermore, since there is no law against shooting yourself up with enough chemicals to fill the boot of a car while riding a stage race, the evidence gathered by the police cannot be submitted to the federation that sanctions these competitions. my client is a fine young boy that has raised himself up from humble beginnings thanks to the help of many major pharmaceutical companies and a few hardworking but slightly shady doctors of medicine. he is a role model and hero for all. by the way, would you like an autographed casquette?"