Hirobel Carbon Frame Clamp

[SpokeValley]

Any of our shop guys seen/used this? A little spendy, but interesting. Not advertising...just curious.

https://hirobel.com/

[DRietz]

Haven't used it, and it seems pretty unnecessary in my opinion.

While I guess theoretically easy to damage any sort of frame in a workstand (even steel), as long as you're cognizant of what you're doing and don't tighten things like a gorilla, then it's also pretty easy not to.

[chiasticon]

they're local dudes who are super nice and also do neutral support for many local races. I don't know them personally, but just wanna throw that disclaimer out, that I'm somewhat biased...

I think it's a cool product but I don't see it being hugely useful for a home mechanic. when you factor in the cost of a stand plus their clamp, you could get a "euro style" beam stand for less. what I DO see it being useful for, though, are neutral support people or shops. especially ones that deal with a lot of tri bikes or aero bikes, which are getting more and more difficult to find a nice round tube on. yeah, those bikes can still go in euro style stands, but this is faster and some people just don't like the euro style stands (which, in a shop environment, I totally get).

[ultraman6970]

For a shop that thing is just genius. Had money and a stand like god commands me to have i would buy this thing.

[Dirtdiggler]

Brandon who is the main inventor. I met him when he was working at the Performance store up here and he mentioned he was working on a secret project on holding a bike without damage. Its a great idea and I could have used one especially when I bent/broke the remove lever inlet hose to the dropper post trying to clamp on it. lesson learned.

[bikinchris]

I love mine. It holds the frame sturdy and well and can't damage the frame. One broken frame per life would pay for it or at least a deductible. the last thing I want to hear is "crack" when I work on a bike.

And no, beam stands will not help you make some adjustments.

[Dead Man]

Some dudes recommended this in my how-to-work-on-a-carbon-seatmast-frame thread a few weeks ago... I immediately was stoked, till I saw the price tag. ack..

[ultraman6970]

Well, sure he is still paying the research and development of the idea and patents are not like 10 bucks, I do get that he is the 1st one with the idea, he needs to get the money back quick but it is understandable what he is asking per unit.

At some point other manufacturers will come up with the same concept but from what I can see this is so straight forward that get a patent for something similar will be really hard. Even the design of the wheels...

IMO what he needs to do is to come up with a freaking tripod/stand to hold his contraption and sell all for 150 bucks, if he can do that he will get zillions of people to buy it.

[Dirtdiggler]

Yep pricey, but so is a replacement frame..
I use a road bar with bar taped to hold my bike. I clamp the center of the bar to my Park stand and the ''loop'' will cradle the top tube and Velcro straps to hold the frame snug to the top tube. I also have a ghetto Hirobel by using an MTB flat bar and on each I have bar ends.

[R3awak3n]

I think its very nice but about $100 too much IMO. Also that said I still rather work on one of these

https://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Feedback-Sports-Sprint-bicycle-workstand03.jpg

and it costs the same as that thing, for the whole stand

[54ny77]

that's a really slick setup.

if i worked on bike enough in stand, i'd be all over that. but, i don't. thankfully.

[cmbicycles]

It's a good idea for many applications... but it costs more than a repair stand for most people so limits the market. I wonder how well it keeps bikes still for jobs requiring a firm hold.

[Louis]

I knew I shouldn't have bought that funky frame...

http://i56.tinypic.com/xpprnn.jpg

[Mark McM]

Hmmm...

I could have sworn I've seen a hitch/bumper rack that used a similar concept to this. Maybe not, but this concept could be adapted to a make a really good hitch/bumper rack.

[oldpotatoe]

I think its very nice but about $100 too much IMO. Also that said I still rather work on one of these

https://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Feedback-Sports-Sprint-bicycle-workstand03.jpg

and it costs the same as that thing, for the whole stand

Yup, plus hook from fork too.

[pdmtong]

$250 - few buyers

Figure out a way to make/sell for $75 and I bet sales increase 10x.

[ultraman6970]

That thing plus a stand for 100 and he will get hit that will hurt everybody.

[bikinchris]

It's a good idea for many applications... but it costs more than a repair stand for most people so limits the market. I wonder how well it keeps bikes still for jobs requiring a firm hold.

It holds the frame very firmly and tight. I have used it with dozens of different bike frames and it works equally well with all of them. I use it with an old Uultimate repair stand and could not be more pleased. I probably would not be as pleased with the tool if used with a Park stand.

I know the designer. Brandon was a junior racer while I was USCF District Rep for Louisiana. He turned out to be a good kid, even though he was a hand full for race officials.

[unterhausen]

patents are really expensive and probably nearly worthless in this case. As said above, there was a rack accessory that was identical. It was intended for hanging a bike from a trunk mount rack. I think it would not be economic to defend this patent, and the bike rack accessory is prior art all day long. Of course, if it gets knocked off, the people doing it will sell it on ebay and Amazon until someone that cares gets a cease and desist order and then disappear.

I also thought it was a good idea until I saw the price. If they have sold 100 of them, that would barely cover the patent. I agree if they can sell it for $100, all of a sudden they are going to have to ramp up production. Maybe Feedback will buy it from them.

[dem]

I seem like the target for this product (I have a problem.. I own multiple stands, a half dozen floor pumps, multiple varieties of the same tool, etc!)

And yeah, $250 is just over the top even for me. :)

I look forward to when something similar is $99.

[Idris Icabod]

patents are really expensive and probably nearly worthless in this case. As said above, there was a rack accessory that was identical. It was intended for hanging a bike from a trunk mount rack. I think it would not be economic to defend this patent, and the bike rack accessory is prior art all day long. Of course, if it gets knocked off, the people doing it will sell it on ebay and Amazon until someone that cares gets a cease and desist order and then disappear.

I also thought it was a good idea until I saw the price. If they have sold 100 of them, that would barely cover the patent. I agree if they can sell it for $100, all of a sudden they are going to have to ramp up production. Maybe Feedback will buy it from them.

Just out of interest, and if it was novel enough to be granted, how much is it to apply for a patent? I thought small inventors were given a huge discount?

[cmbicycles]

It holds the frame very firmly and tight. I have used it with dozens of different bike frames and it works equally well with all of them. I use it with an old Uultimate repair stand and could not be more pleased. I probably would not be as pleased with the tool if used with a Park stand.

I know the designer. Brandon was a junior racer while I was USCF District Rep for Louisiana. He turned out to be a good kid, even though he was a hand full for race officials.

Curious as to why you think it wouldn't work as well in a Park stand. Based on the octagonal shape of the main tube?

[Mark McM]

Just out of interest, and if it was novel enough to be granted, how much is it to apply for a patent? I thought small inventors were given a huge discount?

Here's the fee schedule:

https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/fees-and-payment/uspto-fee-schedule

There are fees just for filing an application, fees for each claim, examiner fees, a fee due when/if the patent is granted, etc. There are usually several rounds of review before a patent is granted, so there may be several rounds of fees.

Even if a patent is granted, there are additional fees due periodically to keep the patent in force.

Even if you are able to go through the process completely on your own without attorneys, professional patent searchers, etc., it could still run $5,000 - $10,000 by the time the patent is granted.

[MaraudingWalrus]

I could see this being phenomenally useful in a shop environment. I suspect I'll grab one for home use before I see one in the shop, however.

But it's not on the top of the list for things I'm going to purchase for home use, either. Several more wheel building devices and such that I need/want to obtain once I recover from my new wheelfanatyk tensiometer.

[SpokeValley]

Here's the fee schedule:

https://www.uspto.gov/learning-and-resources/fees-and-payment/uspto-fee-schedule

There are fees just for filing an application, fees for each claim, examiner fees, a fee due when/if the patent is granted, etc. There are usually several rounds of review before a patent is granted, so there may be several rounds of fees.

Even if a patent is granted, there are additional fees due periodically to keep the patent in force.

Even if you are able to go through the process completely on your own without attorneys, professional patent searchers, etc., it could still run $5,000 - $10,000 by the time the patent is granted.

The serious part is if you have to defend your patent against an infringement. Then the meter is spinning so fast you can't see the numbers. Most small businesses can't afford it.

[GBhiro]

Any of our shop guys seen/used this? A little spendy, but interesting. Not advertising...just curious.

https://hirobel.com/

Good afternoon everyone! My name is Brandon Hirokawa owner of Hirobel Cycling Solutions. I went through the threads and would like to address your questions, concerns and doubts. My intention is not to sell but to provide you with information about our prodcut and ideology.

Thank you to SpokeValley for bringing the discussion to this forum!

Brandon

[bikinchris]

Curious as to why you think it wouldn't work as well in a Park stand. Based on the octagonal shape of the main tube?

Exactly. The rounded shape of the Park stand wouldn't hold as tightly. You would have to really clamp down on the Hirobel to keep it from sagging.

It's not meant as a dig on Park.

[GBhiro]

The serious part is if you have to defend your patent against an infringement. Then the meter is spinning so fast you can't see the numbers. Most small businesses can't afford it.

The cost are fairly high in the US but the manageable if planned correctly. Foreign Patents are extremely high and the process is a 3 to 5 year process.

[GBhiro]

Exactly. The octagonal shape of the Park stand wouldn't hold as tighPark.You would have to really clamp down on the Hirobel to keep it from sagging.

It's not meant as a dig on Park.

Chris,

Funny Mike Lew had the same issue with his Park Micro Adjust Clamp. The issue of it rolling came because the plastic covers on the clamp were worn. We did tests every clamp on the market including a vintage one from 1890. We made it a octagon because it would sit at a zero pitch in any stand without rolling. If there are some other circumstance please let me know. I am always open to feedback........ good or bad.

[GBhiro]

$250 - few buyers

Figure out a way to make/sell for $75 and I bet sales increase 10x.

Factors in cost

First the Frame Clamp is Made in the US *the QR is not bc I didn't have the $15,000 for tooling and I can purchase them from J&B imports for less than $3.00. Second Octagon is not a stock shape, it is a custom order. Cost decrease with quantity, we are on our way to decreasing cost now. The non marring silicone wheels cost more than standard silicone, there is a formula to prevent damage and the correct durometer. We can do it a bit cheaper overseas but I wanted to rely on american manufacturing to ensure quality. The other parts come from a standard machine shops all sourced in North East Ohio. Note the wheels are made from the same factory as "KONG" dog toys in Cleveland.

[bikinchris]

Keeping American jobs American is a good thing and worth paying for. I bet if this was made in China, there would be half a dozen knock offs next year

[GBhiro]

Any of our shop guys seen/used this? A little spendy, but interesting. Not advertising...just curious.

https://hirobel.com/

The majority of our sales have been from IBDs and home mechs. Here is a few facts. The clamp can prevent damage to your carbon post, frame and topper post. You don't have to remove saddlebags or lights nor do you have to mark seatposts (if your remember). Makes topper seatpost and di w/ seatpost battery much easier. Both installs require seatpost to be removed.

The majority of the bikes we work on or own have torque specs on almost every part of the bike, all the way down to the water bottle cages. Torque wrench sales have increased dramatically in recent years to measure these specs on our bikes. When mechs clamp frames(I have litterly 100's of pics from newbes to UCI mechs) or seatpost they don't need to measure compression? "Going by feel" is not a unit of measure. Once clamp there is also the load that is applied to the seatpost or frame while the bike is being worked on.

Reason I developed the prodcut is to make cycling safer and reduce the liability of working on these amazing machines.

[GBhiro]

they're local dudes who are super nice and also do neutral support for many local races. I don't know them personally, but just wanna throw that disclaimer out, that I'm somewhat biased...

I think it's a cool product but I don't see it being hugely useful for a home mechanic. when you factor in the cost of a stand plus their clamp, you could get a "euro style" beam stand for less. what I DO see it being useful for, though, are neutral support people or shops. especially ones that deal with a lot of tri bikes or aero bikes, which are getting more and more difficult to find a nice round tube on. yeah, those bikes can still go in euro style stands, but this is faster and some people just don't like the euro style stands (which, in a shop environment, I totally get).

Thank you for kind words. One reason that we made a adapter rather than a complete stand is because most of us have a repair stands already . Shops have had the same Park Stands for 50 years+. We did not want to make the industry orthe consumer to retool the current set ups to take advantage of the innovation of our FRAME CLAMPS. I wanted to be on the side of the end user, the more shops and riders that use safer we make it.

Hirobel is not just a one hit wonder, we have 7 other product in the pipeline we thought we would lead off the Frame Clamp. You will be seeing a car rack with Frame Clamp Tech in the near future!

[GBhiro]

Yep pricey, but so is a replacement frame..
I use a road bar with bar taped to hold my bike. I clamp the center of the bar to my Park stand and the ''loop'' will cradle the top tube and Velcro straps to hold the frame snug to the top tube. I also have a ghetto Hirobel by using an MTB flat bar and on each I have bar ends.

Did you steal my first poorman's prototype!! That was one of the first kick around versions in my basement.

[GBhiro]

I think its very nice but about $100 too much IMO. Also that said I still rather work on one of these

https://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Feedback-Sports-Sprint-bicycle-workstand03.jpg

and it costs the same as that thing, for the whole stand

The race stands are nice and no doubt that Feedback is one of the best. The Frame Clamp has been becoming more popular for a few reasons. You have to remove the front wheel then attach the fork. Not a big deal until QR, thru axles and the various sizes are used to secure forks. So not you have to change the stand fork mount depending on the fork. The brake or the headset can't be adjusted until the wheel is back on and on the ground or if you remove the rear wheel and repeat the first step again.

Installing BB, E shifting and bottom bracket system really don't mesh well with fork mounted stands. We have some mechs on the protour using our product for these reasons. Nice bikes BTW

[GBhiro]

I knew I shouldn't have bought that funky frame...

http://i56.tinypic.com/xpprnn.jpg

Nice rig! A solution for beam bikes.

Cheers!

Brandon