Why I want a Serotta

[ericmurphy]

I’m planning on ordering my Serotta Legend Ti this weekend. I decided on the Legend because it’s 100% titanium, and I’m planning on keeping this bike for the rest of my cycling life (say, the next 30-40 years). Everyone I’ve spoken to has said this frame should last 100-200 years, if I don’t get hit on it! One of the guys at my LBS told me I could toss the frame into San Francisco Bay, come back 20 years later, and the frame would probably still be fine! (I think he was joking…)

I see a lot of Lightspeeds, Sevens, and Merlins out there with no paint, and a lot of Serottas with too much paint (Serotta paint jobs are supposed to be some of the best in the industry, although Kleins certainly look pretty). So I’m going to be a bit different, and put just a bit of paint on the Legend. Basically the head tube, the down tube, the bottom bracket, and a few inches on the top tube, the bottom of the seat tube, and the chainstays. That will leave most of the top tube, the seat tube, the chainstays, and all of the seatstays bare, polished titanium. But the color I’ve picked, “Harlequin” is pretty amazing. It looks like those Klein paint jobs that’s a different color depending on the viewing angle, and it’s got some metallic sparkliness to it as well. I think it would be too much to paint the whole bike like that, but about a third of the frame should be about right. The specialty paint color adds about 200 bucks to the price of the frame, but since the frame’s already thirty-two hundred dollars…

I’m hoping to keep the total price under $7,000. Money isn’t a huge object, but it isn’t “no object,” either. After the frame, I’m thinking the place to spend the money is in the wheels and the fork. Serotta’s F2 fork is almost 600 bucks, and frankly I’m not good enough of a rider to appreciate a fork that expensive, so I’m going to go with Serotta’s second best fork, the O2—which still goes for 375 bucks, unpainted. I’m not positive, but I’ve heard a lot of good things about Dura Ace’s WH-7800 wheelset, and I don’t yet have a lot of options for specialty wheels built with 10-speed DA hubs. 800 bucks seems a little extreme for a wheelset, but not as much as that $2,000 Reynolds wheelset…

Most of the rest of the bike will be DA 10-speed too. The DA crankset is by far the stiffest, and close to the lightest, out there, not that a rider like me will notice the difference. The things I’ve still got to decide include the seatpost, saddle, handlebars, and stem. I’m thinking carbon for the seatpost, aluminum for handlebars, mainly because carbon seatposts are affordable and carbon handlebars aren’t. Not if the bike’s going to cost less than $8,000.

For a rider like me, this bike is most assuredly a vanity project. Let’s face it: I’m a 4,000-mile-a-year kind of guy. I’ll probably just barely be able to tell the difference between any titanium frame and my 13-year-old carbon-aluminum Trek 2300 with inexpensive Mavic wheels. But I’ve been riding pretty consistently the last couple of years, and I want to keep it that way for the foreseeable future. I can’t think of a better way to accomplish that other than with a totally beautiful, totally custom, work-of-art bicycle.

So why a Serotta? We already know I want a 100% ti bike—no carbon (at 180 pounds, I’m a big guy for steel, plus steel rusts—and I don’t trust aluminum or carbon to last 30 years). But I think what really attracted me to Serotta (other than the paint jobs) is their attention to fit and biomechanics. Seven takes your measurements, but basically all they want is the equivalent of your inseam measurements extended to upper arm, forearm, etc., and then they build you a bike. Serotta wants an interview with you, a discussion of your goals as a cyclist, your riding strengths and weaknesses, what you like and dislike about your current bike, and how you want your bike to handle. Then they put you on their Size Cycle contraption, to get some biomechanical, as well as dimensional, information about you. The whole sizing interview takes a couple of hours. Then, my LBS (City Cycle, in San Francisco) faxes all the info to Serotta in New York. Serotta’s frame builder develops a specification for your bike, including not only dimensions and angles, but tubing diameters and cross-sections. Then Serotta faxes the information back, to see if it sounds like what you actually really want. Only then does Serotta order the tubing from the mill and start cutting, mitering, and welding. That sounds like a custom bike to me.

Once the frame is welded, polished, and painted, it gets shipped out to City Cycle, where they start building up a bike from the frame and fork (and hopefully by that time I’ve got enough money saved for all the components!) The cool thing is, I get to spec everything on the bike, from the paint scheme to the tubing diameters to the handlebar tape to the rim tape. The bike will be designed by and for me, and will be like no other bike in the world.

Is it too much bike for me? Probably. Exorbitantly expensive? Doubtless. A vanity project? Of course. But that’s not the point. First, I had to work hard to get this bike; it will have taken me about a year to save for it. Think I’ll appreciate it when I get it? Second, the bike is so far beyond my ability as a cyclist that I’ll probably never feel like I’m pushing it to its limits, nor will I wish I’d gotten anything else. I doubt I’ll ever run into another bike much better than mine, no matter where I ride. This bike wouldn’t be out of place at the Tour de France (other than the lack of huge corporate logos on it).

Third, I think this bike will keep me riding into my sixties, or maybe even into my seventies. Sure, I’ll have to replace the wheels, the drivetrain, the brakes, etc. But I’ll never (barring catastrophe) have to replace the frame. And, if the paint job starts looking boring, every decade or so I can strip the frame and send it out for repainting, in the same or different color. It will be like getting a new high-end dream machine every ten years, for about five hundred bucks!

And fourth, I’ll have a bike that, aside from being a work of art, will be uniquely mine. It will have been made exactly to my specifications, and everything about it will be that way because I wanted it that way.

I’ll let you know how it all comes out.

[vaxn8r]

Well thought out.

You said:

"I’ll probably just barely be able to tell the difference between any titanium frame and my 13-year-old carbon-aluminum Trek 2300 with inexpensive Mavic wheels."

I gaurantee there will be a world of difference in performance between your new and old bikes. It will be a revelation! Get ready to have a permanent smile pasted on your face.

The DA group is flawless and I really like the wheelset too. I've gone back and forth over the years between Campy and Shimano and the DA 10 shifts and brakes better than anything I've used before.

Now for the hard part. The wait.....

[Needs Help]

Hi,

Sounds like a nice bike. Did you choose the Pelton paint job with Harlequin?

[ericmurphy]

Hi,

Sounds like a nice bike. Did you choose the Pelton paint job with Harlequin?

Yep. I first saw the Harlequin paint on Serotta's website, and it looked nice, but not outstanding. Depending on price, Cobalt Blue was my backup choice. But when I saw an actual tube painted with Harlequin, my mind was made up.

But I really like the look of polished ti, and I was thinking a whole bike painted Harlequin might be a bit much. So "Peleton" it is.

[Ahneida Ride]

I purchased my Legend for many of the same reasons. and I
was blessed to locate a great fitter.

May I suggest a Thompson Post. Carbon posts make me real nervous.

For comfort and longevity, A Brooks Saddle is the only logical choice.
See wallbike.com

Keep us informed !

[Needs Help]

when I saw an actual tube painted with Harlequin, my mind was made up.

I've seen the Harlequin carbon tint on an Ottrott and if the paint is anything like that, it will be hard to look away. :)

[dirtdigger88]

Congrats, I just finished my own project. You will never be sorry you got such a great frame. I don't think you will have any trouble keeping the ticket undrer 7 or 8 grand though. Keep us posted

Jason

[Kurt]

I’ll probably just barely be able to tell the difference between any titanium frame and my 13-year-old carbon-aluminum Trek 2300 with inexpensive Mavic wheels.

>>You think so? I say one 25mile ride over some rough road with a nice downhill should do the trick.

I’ll let you know how it all comes out

>>we already know how it going to come out.

get campy and your job is done :banana:

[ericmurphy]

get campy and your job is done :banana:

I've considered Campy--I've always wanted a bike with Campganolo components--but it does get pretty expensive, and I've heard a lot of things about 2004 DA. And, if say three or four years from now I decide I want to try some Italian bike-jewelry, the frame will still be up to it. :-)

[Climb01742]

after your legend arrives, you may have to change the motto under your name to "faster in the hills". :D

[Kevin]

Eric,

You are going to love it. Congratulations.

Kevin

[Smiley]

Eric,
Looks like Clay and the gang at City Cycles hooked you up brother. They are excellent at what they do and it should be noted that they sell Seven as well as Serotta so you as a newbie have articulated why and what makes Serotta stand out from their peers. And you will be blown away by your Serotta purchase. Just re-think buying gucci wheels as this may wreck the feel of your Ti bike. Go to a custom wheel builder AFTER you've ridden your frame and fork with STOCK Mavic open pro wheels for a while and then have a set designed to your liking. Jeremy Parafit at Alchemy in NM or Dave Thomas in AZ are just a few builders that can build you some special wheels . Best of luck. And tell Clay ,Smiley said Hello next time you talk with him.

[Kevin]

I second the vote for Dave Thomas. He makes a great set of wheels.

Kevin

[BumbleBeeDave]

1) 4000 miles is a lot of riding per year!

2) $7,000 (or even 8k) is NOT a lot when you consider the amortized per year cost over, say, 20 years. $400 per year? That’s cheap considered against what you probably spend for gas or eating out, or even store-bought coffee per year.

3) The harlequin is not just pretty, it’s gorgeous! Looks like a different color from every angle. Had a riding buddy (who has since moved away) who has a Klein with that paint and it was amazing--purple from one angle, dark blue from another, and even gold from a third angle. How DO they do it???

4) Man, you WILL notice the difference when you go out and ride it--guaranteed!

5) A “vanity” project? Hardly. It’s an investment in your fitness, your future, and your health. It will have solid, concrete benefits to your productivity, your mental health, and the quality of life of your family as you retain your good health and fitness far longer than most people.

I’ll bet you never suspected it could be SO much fun to be SO wrong! :rolleyes:

BBDave

[Kevin]

BBDave,

Is that the script you follow when justifying the Queen Bee to your friends?

Kevin

[soulspinner]

You have articulated all the reasons I want a legend ti. The only thing I would do differently besides maybe the color(Harlequin is nice though) is where I would paint it. I would do half paint half polish as Serotta typically does to keep the bottom area polish because it will see the most grime and nicks.
Dont think twice.

Do it and love it...Soul

[Len J]

Great thought process, as someone else said, "we already know how it will turn out".

A few comments/questions:

1.) I have a hard time understanding how you get the price to $8,000? $3,300 for the frame, $200 for the paint (BTW, that also sounds high to me unless the Harliquin is a significant upcharge from Candy Apple Red, another specialty color, that cost me an $80 upcharge), $375 for the fork = $3,875. A DA 10 Build kit with everything including DA/OP Hand built wheels is $2,200, Upcharge to Gucci wheels (+/- $800) s/b around $400, so you're at $6.475, with sales tax you're still under $7,000. The Only thing I can think of is that your retailer is charging you list on every piece you put on the bike. If that's the case, I'd find another retailer. Just for frame of refrence, I built a Legend Ti, F2 Fork Painted to match, Candy Apple Red 3/4,1/4, full D/A Triple build kit, King Headset, Hand Built D/A O/P wheels and picked all other components on my bike, in December of 2002 and walked out of the store for under $5,500. Shopping around at the time, I could have done better than this, I paid a premium (in my estimation) for the fitting. I can't believe that 1.5 years of inflation has added $1,500. Spend time on this & you may be able to buy it sooner.

2.) I would go for the F2, you won't regret it. Why skimp when you're already spending so much?

3.) Fitting. I felt, like you, that this would be a "Life Time" bike. Consequently, I did not want to get the fitting wrong. I like you, ride around 4,000 miles or more per year, so it's not like I don't know my body. Since I had planned to spend so much money, I decided to find two good certified Serotta Fit specialist and pay to have both of them do the fitting. I then asked them to explain to me the rationalle for each of their fittings including the changes from my existing bikes. I then compared the fittings and identified difference. I asked each fitter to explain the rationale for each of their particular area that was different from the other fitter. I then challenged the other fitter to explain why the other choice wasn't right. Why did I do this? Because, in the end, it wasn't going to be either of the fitters bike, it was going to be mine. I wanted to understand, and choose what I wanted my bike to be. In the end, the differences were philisophical, and I was able to choose the fitting that complemented the kind of riding I actually do. Take your time with this part. Think through what you actually use the bike for. It does no good (IMO) to spec a super stiff racing bike if 95% of your riding is 5 hour hard effort distance riding (as an example). These decisions can have a dramatic effect on how you spec the bike. The more clear you are on what you want the bike to be, the more likely you are to get what you want. I would suggest you spend as much thought as you obviously spent on the Look & Compnoents, on these questions.

4.) Other custom. Don't forget the other customization decisions. Pump peg? Longer Chainstays or not? Do you want to put fenders on this ever, do you need a higher rear brake bridge? Positioning of Cages (some bikes have them too low, you have the option)? Head tube extension/spacers/sloping TT? Personalization? What size tires do you want to put on the bike? Etc Etc, ask for it if you want it.

Good luck and enjoy the process.

Sorry for the length

Len

[djg]

If money is a concern, I'd ditch the wheelset in favor of a non-factory set. A good wheelbuilder can build you a great set of all-around wheels starting with DA hubs (very good), good spokes, and good rims, for half the price of those DA wheels. If you want special purpose, deep section aero wheels you have to spend some money. If you want super-light race only wheels you have to spend some money. If you want good, lightweight, dependable wheels that will ride great you can get them for a lot less than 800 bucks. Nothing against factory wheels--I have two sets myself--but they are what they are and they are not magic. I guess if I wanted low spoke factory wheels for everyday riding I'd be more drawn to wheels with a track record of dependability, like Mavic Ks or Campy (either Neutrons or Euros)--either of which can be ordered for quite a bit less than 800 bucks.

Is the shop really charging full retail list on everything that they hang on the bike? 7-8k sounds steep, even for a legend with DA 10.

I'm not trying to rain on the parade. This is a long-term purchase and I bet you'll love it and consider the money well-spent. And by all means, if you can afford it, you should get this bike done exactly as you want it. But if money is an issue you can probably shave a grand off the bike without ditching any of the essentials.

[Oaklandhills]

Eric,

You will be amazed. I just got a Legend 3 months ago - albeit used. I came from a 6 year old C-dale. I spent 7 months looking and riding and originally eliminated Serotta becasue of the cost. The minute Clay at City Cycle had me test ride a Serotta I went mentally unconcious. The traffic in the Marina disappeared. There was no noise. I had to have one. Luckily I found my size - 58 - for sale. My first ride was astonishing, beyond description and just plain fun.

I was planning on riding the headlands this afternoon but will go ride skyline and maybe lafayette this afternoon.

See you on the GGB soon.

[BumbleBeeDave]

<<Don't forget the other customization decisions.>>

You will need to decide compact or full size, head tube extension or sloping top tube, pump peg, eyelets, team decals or not, decal colors, head tube badge or decal, etc.

BBDave

[dirtdigger88]

Dich the super expensive wheels and the paint. go with naked ti, don't hide those wonderful tubes. I do think the price is a bit high though. I got my ride for just a nick over 6k tax and all. Yes, what about a pump peg- I think these are very imporant. You will love the new bike, congrats again.

Jason

[Ozz]

You're going to luv it!

I will echo previous comments about paint - the harlequin is a cool color, but think about leaving bottom bracket, chain stays and seat stays bare. Your bike will look newer, longer.

I went with the "gucci" wheels on my bike (campy eurus) and I love them. However, they are a much stiffer ride than the open pros I was used to. I am in process of getting some reflex tubulars built up as a spare wheelset for longer, more comfy riding. My point is, don't discount a nice pair of handbuilts just to get a fancy set of wheels.. You might even save some money.

The custom details are easy overlook. Go for the pump peg! It is a detail that is often missing from "modern" bikes. Head tube badge vs. decal is another decision. Personally, I like the badge. Decals, number of decals, placement, etc are determined by you. Make sure you ask for and discuss all options before order is submitted.

I won't say that $7k to $8k is too much to spend, bucause you didn't give enough details on all your components. It's OK to press your shop a little on price. Make sure you get an itemized list of components and their cost. Somethings you can find cheaper at other shops or (gawd forbid) online. Just run a spreadsheet to make sure you understand where the costs are coming from.

My $0.02, go for the F2. Just because.....

BTW - This is the fun part - waiting for delivery is the hardest part!

[Andreu]

Photos please?....I need ideas on colour schemes and I would love to see this frame you have described!
I have come to the same conclusion as you about the whys and wherefores of getting a Serotta. Just need some time to save up. This is a buy from the heart - if we were going to buy frames from the head we would be buying other frames (which I don't care to mention).
Good luck with the cycling.
:beer: :beer:
Thanks,
A

[rustolium]

I always find it interesting where people decide to save money on a bike. Why would someone buying a $7K bike want to save $200 on a fork? This is basically part of the frame for gods sake. It connects you to the road through the wheel.

Also, I agree with BumbleBee's and other's statements earlier. 4K miles is worthy of a nice, comfortable, fun riding bike and you will so be able to tell the difference from what you are riding now.

I am also a fan of little to no paint. Brushed Ti and pure carbon just looks sweet.

Serotta is a great bike and there is another reason to get a Serotta that no one else has mentioned. About a month ago I got to ride some 35 miles with Ben and Mike here in Austin. We discussed bikes, team sponserships, music, food, and the weather. These guys build bikes because they love doing it and they love to see the happy people on their bikes. That passion transfers right through the bike and I have a smile on my face even on the way up an 18% grade hill.

You will love the new ride. Enjoy.

[vaxn8r]

"This is a buy from the heart - if we were going to buy frames from the head we would be buying other frames (which I don't care to mention)."

You mean Calfee's??

[pjm]

I always find it interesting where people decide to save money on a bike. Why would someone buying a $7K bike want to save $200 on a fork? This is basically part of the frame for gods sake. It connects you to the road through the wheel.

Also, I agree with BumbleBee's and other's statements earlier. 4K miles is worthy of a nice, comfortable, fun riding bike and you will so be able to tell the difference from what you are riding now.

I am also a fan of little to no paint. Brushed Ti and pure carbon just looks sweet.

Serotta is a great bike and there is another reason to get a Serotta that no one else has mentioned. About a month ago I got to ride some 35 miles with Ben and Mike here in Austin. We discussed bikes, team sponserships, music, food, and the weather. These guys build bikes because they love doing it and they love to see the happy people on their bikes. That passion transfers right through the bike and I have a smile on my face even on the way up an 18% grade hill.

You will love the new ride. Enjoy.

[pjm]

Sorry about my previous post, I just wanted to agree with Rustolium's thoughts about the fork. Get the F2.

[Kurt]

It's not as nice looking as that. It is less than the DA and does not work quite the same. You hands will fit on better than the other so you might want to try both out before you buy. txcyclesport.com is a start for $, there are lots of sites that sell for less.


I've considered Campy--I've always wanted a bike with Campganolo components--but it does get pretty expensive, and I've heard a lot of things about 2004 DA. And, if say three or four years from now I decide I want to try some Italian bike-jewelry, the frame will still be up to it. :-)

[ericmurphy]

I spoke to City Cycle about pricing everything else on the frame, and they have kind of an interesting way of going about it. After you've bought the frame and fork, you can choose either Ultegra, DA 9, DA 9 triple, DA 10, or Record. Each of these groups is further broken down into different "levels," e.g., "basic," "good," "best," and "ultimate." The price for DA 10 "ultimate" is just short of $3,000. Add that to a $3,500 frame and a $575 fork, and you've got $7,000. And that's before tax. My TOTAL budget really isn't much more than $7,000, which is why I'm thinking maybe the O2 fork. I frankly have my doubts that I'll be able to feel the difference between a $400 Serotta carbon fork and a $600 Serotta carbon fork. But of course I'll ask City what they think, based on my riding history, goals, and desires.

As for the price of components, the guys at City say that for the "ultimate" group, I can pretty much put anything I want on the bike, and that price (just under $3,000) is more of a guideline, and often the total comes out less than that.

So it really comes down to allocating where I want to spend money. I've always believed that the most important places to spend money are in the frame and the wheelset. (I wouldn't have said paint, until I saw that Harlequin color. :-)

But tomorrow I'm going to spend quite a bit of time discussing what the components should be, and whether I'll benefit from the F2 fork. And since I've got at least a couple of months while Ben and his buddies are building my frame, I should have plenty of time to ponder. But thanks for all the suggestions; it's certainly given me plenty to think about. And I'm starting to realize just how many options I'll have with the frame. Originally I was thinking basically it was a matter of tubing length, angles, and paint scheme, but now I've got to think of tubing shapes, diameters, various braze-ons, etc. Tomorrow should be a pretty exciting day, and then I've got the next four months or so to decide how I want to spend all this money.

Yes, it's true. Seven thousand dollars isn't a whole lot of money for something that should give me decades of enjoyment. But here's the trade-off: I've been saving for this bike since last August. And the prime riding weather here in San Francisco Bay is from the end of July until the end of October. I'm going to want to get this bike as close to the end of July as I can. I've still got over $3,000 to save, at about 600 bucks a month (which leaves me totally poverty-stricken, believe me!).

So this bike, despite the price, is still going to be a series of trade-offs. How long can I wait to put thing on the road? And remember, everything other than the frame can be replaced later, if I want something better. If I decide a year from now I really want that fork with the ti drop-outs, all is not lost. :-)

I'll keep you guys posted, and as soon as I get pics of the frame (probably the end of June), I'll slap 'em up here.

Thanks for all your kind advice and support.

[Climb01742]

eric, you may well keep this frame for decades, but will it be your last frame? if the members of this forum are any indication, a bug has just bitten you. the effects of that bite may take a while to manifest themselves. but soon and for the rest of your life, frames will just start mysteriously appearing in your basement. you've been warned. :beer:

[ericmurphy]

eric, you may well keep this frame for decades, but will it be your last frame? if the members of this forum are any indication, a bug has just bitten you. the effects of that bite may take a while to manifest themselves. but soon and for the rest of your life, frames will just start mysteriously appearing in your basement. you've been warned. :beer:

Well, you might be right. But remember, I've had my Trek for almost 14 years now. And, considering the frame probably cost me less than 700 bucks, I've certainly enjoyed the use I've gotten out of it. I can only imagine how much I'm going to enjoy a frame that costs five times as much. :-)

[ericmurphy]

Okay, yesterday (April 10) was the big day. I rode my Trek down to City Cycle in San Francisco for my appointment for a fitting. I got there a bit early, so I checked out some of the Serottas they had there, and compared them to the Sevens. Sorry, but there’s no way the welds on the Sevens are better than the Serottas. I talked to Craig, the guy who did the fitting, and he said where you can really tell Serotta’s weld quality is on the interiors of the tubes, like where the top tube is welded to the head tube.

Anyway, we talked a bit, and then the measurements began. I’d estimate he did probably 20 measurements of me: inseam length, height, foot length, upper thigh length, calf length, arm length, forearm length, etc. Then he took a million measurements of my current bike (a 1990 Trek 2300). One of the first things he noticed was how long it was from the saddle to the hoods. That’s probably why I always feel like the hoods are an inch or so too far away. He set up the Size Cycle to be the same as my bike, except with a shorter distance to the hoods. Man, that made a major difference. The whole bike felt much more compact. He also noticed that my saddle was way too low (my laziness; I've known it was too low for months), and raised that, and repositioned my levers and stem. Kind of a freebie adjustment, I guess. :-) The bike feels way taller now, with an extra inch or so of the seatpost sticking out of the seat tube, but it would be nice if that gives me more power going up the hills.

Craig spent a lot of time observing me on the Size Cycle, seeing how I pedaled, etc. We spent a lot of time talking about dealing with muscular lower back pain by shortening the distance to the hoods, and also about how I wanted the bike to handle. I talked about how I felt like left-hand curves were harder to deal with than right-hand curves, and he believed that having a more neutral-handling bike with a stickier rear end would probably do most of the work, with only slight adjustments made to the head tube angle.

We decided that lengthening the chain stays to improve the chainline wasn’t worth it, and that I’ll stay with 172.5 mm crankarms, since they’ve worked pretty well for me over the past 20,000 miles or more, plus I have a reasonably high cadence. We decided that the most important thing for me was riding compliance, followed by handling, and weight was not that big a concern (since the bike will probably weigh 19 pounds or less in any event).

I decided to go with the F2 fork instead of the O2 fork. The two-hundred dollar difference amounts to about 3% of the price of the bike, and I have the feeling I'd regret it if I didn't spend the money. I'll just have to economize elsewhere (and I'm not going with a cheaper color scheme!).

I’m pretty much decided on the DA WH-7800 wheelset. I like the way it looks, and those hubs sure look trick. I might just have to get into the habit of taking a few spare spokes with me.

I decided to go half-and-half on the Harlequin paint, rather than Peleton, because the titanium will probably be easier to keep looking new than the paint, and the bottom bracket area takes the brunt of the abuse. I'm going to leave the fork unpainted, first because I like the way carbon looks, and second because painting the fork adds $100 to the price!

So now all I have to do is wait. I'm guessing the frame will be done by the middle of June, but I've still got a way to go before I have enough money for everything else. My goal is to have the bike ready to ride by the beginning of August.

It's going to be the longest four months of my life.

[mickeyc]

Congratualtions on your new Serotta. I've got a C III with the harlequin
paint and it's gorgeous. I have gotten several positive comments on the color of my bike.

:) :) :)

[Serotta PETE]

Sae a picture and specs on this wheels. THey look great!. Now the waiting will be the hardest. Save fast for you will get very inpatient when frame arrives. It will be fun fun fun...................I hope to be in SF with my wife in August (what a beautiful city= my favorite!)

[Jeff N.]

I'm about as cheap as they come. After I shelled out the three grand for my Legend Ti, I bought almost every single component off of E-bay. One...by...one. All Record. Ksyriums. Saved many HUNDREDS! I love building up frames, so did all that myself, saving even more coin. I think the only things that didn't come from E-Bay was the water bottles and my Selle Italia Turbomatic 4 saddle. Oh! And the Cinelli cork bar tape. I think I made this bike happen for a rock bottom price. But I had to be patient waiting for everything to slowly trickle in. That was the hard part. Jeff N.

[Smiley]

Eric , I think you've gone about your decisions in a well thought out manner UNTILL you got to the wheelset. I think you should demo a set of these wheels against others when you get your frame as wheels will behave differently on different bikes or to different tastes for different bikes. The reason Mavic and Shimano make their wheels look sexy is cause SEX sells and congrats you bought into the sizzle without checking out the substance. Let me state for the record that these wheels maybe the greatest on earth and I have never ridden them no do I have a beef with your choice just the fact that you did so well in your research and then chose wheels on sizzle alone. Where's the beef. By the way I prefer to have a custom wheelset built up for my exact riding needs. Nothing hi zoot tech no sizzle just good light vertically compliant yet laterally stiff wheels. Congrats on your new purchase and many safe riding miles and if your ride at nite do wear white.

[vaxn8r]

That's kind of harsh Cap'n,

How is he supposed to ride a set of "custom" wheels, built up exactly for his riding needs? That's at least one huge advantage of prebuilts....you can actually test them out and know exactly what you're getting.

Don't sell the prebuilts short. I've ridden a bunch of them, Campy, Mavic and DA and there are some really nice ones out there.

Sometimes I think the idea of custom is a bit overdone around here. Take that for whatever it's worth coming from one who is extremely happy with his non custom, off-the-rack Atlanta.

[Smiley]

I did not write that to be harsh I just wanted to point out that for Eric as well as others to be careful in the choice of wheels , nothing wrong with Shimano or other brand pre-builts , I just wanted Eric to know what are the features of the wheels he's getting and how that may effect the ride. I loved the fact that when Keno came to the Open House he had Serotta install his own wheels for his Ottrott demo. That act alone showed me that Keno wanted to isolate the frame and fork performance . I am sure Eric will be blown away by his whole purchase as he's up-grading by leaps and bounds in technology alone against his old bike. Then throw fit into this mix and how could he go wrong. He can't lose , but I just wanted him to know from what he said in his own words that the wheels are important too but not just from a looks standpoint but function. I am sure the point has been made and Eric will have a great end result as most buyers don't really figure the wheels heavily into the buying process.

[dirtdigger88]

I now have about 350 miles on my new Legend and new Ksyriums, here is what I think. I like the wheel set overall, however, I am not completley blown away. I have a set of custom wheels on my Zurich, Open Pros laced to 32 hole Chris King hubs, with a combination of Competition and Revoultion spokes of various butting depending on front or rear- drive or non drive. That wheel set in my opion is one of the finest I have ever ridden. The King hubs are hands down superior to those on the K's. I like the "instant engagement" of the Kings. I notice a slight lag in the engagement of the rear hub of the K's. I can really tell this when doing a track stand. I am going to get a 10 speed cassette to put on my custom wheelset so I can try them on my Legend. I am hoping the wheels feel as stiff on the legend as they do on my Zurich. If they do, I am going to have a set of the OP/CK built just for my Legend. I like the wheelset so much on my Zurich that I do not want to take them off of it. Just my .02, take it as such.

Jason

[Climb01742]

for what it's worth, i know that ben is not a fan of ksyriums at all. he feels that their harshness impacts how a frame rides, and can make someone not like the frame, when perhaps its the wheels. that being said, its hard to tell people to not put the most popular wheel on their frames. i personally like open pros better, but that's a personal thing.

[jerk]

smiley-
the new d/a wheels are fine....when we shop for things in many ways we don't buy product we buy experience and reputation....our man is buying a made to measure frame sight unseen and certainly will not ride it before he plops down alot of cash....don't you think that trusting a fitter and a frame builder is more of a leap of faith than trusting shimano on something like wheels? oh, as an aside, compared to your "custom hand builts" the jerk would like to inform you that the new d/a wh-7800 are lighter, stiffer and stronger than anything some hack wheel builder can put together out of the stagnant technologically outdated hubsets and rims currently available....the wh-7800 is designed to work specifically with ten speed, has incredibly even spoke tension and utlizes a brand new hub design which is lighter, smoother and stiffer than any previous shimano effort. (if there is one thing shimano has always done as well or better than anyone else it's hubs.) the jerk has ridden alot of garbage wheels and alot of wonderful wheels, but erik is buying his bicycle from one of the best shops in the world and believe me if the d/a wheels aren't exactly his cup of tea city cycle like most good shops will stand behind the porduct 100%....their experience is far greater than most....and if they say it's a good wheel a customer in eric's position should trust them.
also what would a test ride show? no wheel deflects on the vertical plane and no test ride will offer any insight into durability. the jerk who is incredibly finicky doubts he could even tell the difference while riding between the 7800s, the neutrons and the race x lites.....while deep section wheels certainly feel different and ksyriums feel different as a result of their aluminum spokes....what do shallow section torsionally stiff racing clinchers not have in common when it comes to ride?

jerk

[ericmurphy]

Eric , I think you've gone about your decisions in a well thought out manner UNTILL you got to the wheelset.

You're right, I have totally bought into the sizzle. :-) And frankly, I doubt I'd ever be able to tell the difference between the 7800s and a nice pair of, e.g., Colorado Cyclist wheels built up around the DA hubs, but as you can probably tell from the fact that I'm spending $200 on a custom paint job, sex does sell. :-)

The thing is, I want to be riding 25 years from now, and I know myself well enough to realize that looking at that gorgeous bike in my apartment, with those oh-so-hot wheels and that tantalizing paint job, is going to be pretty effective in getting me out to ride when it's overcast and 50 degrees out in July here in San Francisco! Since I can't imagine myself being disappointed with the DA wheels, I think in the long run it will be money well-spent, even if I probably could get wheels just as good for half the price. Assume I've done my homework on the rest of the bike, and allow me my irrationality with my choice of wheels. Don't worry, I won't curse you guys later for not talking me out of spending my money like a drunken sailor. :-)

[ericmurphy]

How's this for irrational? When ordering my Legend from Serotta, I specifically stated that weight was less of a factor for me than ride compliance or handling, and yet one of the reasons I'm choosing the WH-7800s (other than the great cleavage and the deep blue eyes) is that they're lighter and probably LESS compliant than a pair of handbuilt traditional wheels.

Or, you could assume I'm being nuanced and subtle and using the light weight of the wheels to compensate for the frame (unsprung vs. sprung), and the compliance of the frame to compensate for the stiffness of the wheels... :-)

[Ozz]

You are going to be happy with the whole set up. And besides, if "the jerk" endorses them, what more do you need.

You can always buy another set next year! :beer:

[ericmurphy]

If I were Lance, sweating over whether I was going to win my sixth in a row in July, I'd probably worry more about stuff like whether the DA wheels (or any other component, for that matter) were stronger, lighter, faster, more indestruct-o than some other choice.

But in fact, I'm just some guy who's trying to get out there and ride every weekend, even if the weather isn't perfect (which it usually isn't, out here in San Francisco). And if those 7800s put a smile on my face when I see my bike leaning against the wall in my apartment, and if I like the way the sun reflects off those bladed spokes as I look down at them on a ride, and if I like the way other cyclists look at my ride and say, "Cool hoops, dude," then the extra money I pay will be well worth it.

As City Cycle (my LBS) says, "The best bikes are those that are ridden."

Also, another reason I'm not sweating the choices:

The Tyranny of Choice (http://www.sciamdigital.com/browse.cfm?sequencenameCHAR=item2&methodnameCHAR=resource_getitembrowse&interfacenameCHAR=browse.cfm&ISSUEID_CHAR=3B8A9274-2B35-221B-63A60F782CAB6E84&ARTICLEID_CHAR=3BA534FE-2B35-221B-67FAC21221784170&sc=I100322)

[Kevin]

eric,

You are 100% right. If they make you happy, buy them.

Kevin

[Jeff N.]

Thats right. Whatever smokes your shorts. Jeff N.

[Climb01742]

luckily for all of us, cycling and logic are the most distant of cousins. buy it, then take as long as you need to rationalize it.

[dbrk]

Climb's got it: throw out the reasons with the rationalizations and confine your cycling preferences to passion and practice (but never, ever practicality because this is about fun which requires no further rationalization). So long as you aren't stealing the lunch money it's all safer than guns (depending on where you ride) and adultery (depending on nothing, it IS safer than that!). I have chosen to live with someone who can live with me. That must include the simple fact that I have a bicycle addiction that I have no intention of changing, ever. I sometimes say things like, "You thought you married someone else?" But she is the one who says this smilingly, knowing that I am happiest when I am bikey-est. Never wait to enjoy yourself even if you can't have what you want, I say. Also, expect folly and failure when you are dealing with cycling because, well, it's like that. There is no one perfect bike for everything and it takes a long, long time to figure out what really works for you. Expect losses and joys beyond your reckoning. Everyday is like that for me. Thank goodness for bicycles because otherwise I would be completely mad. Uhhh...how mad do you have to be to be completely?

dbrk

[Smiley]

Thats right. Whatever smokes your shorts. Jeff N.

What else can be said . Thanks Jeff

[Jeff N.]

dbrk: My wife doesn't understand it (why I have a dozen bikes hanging out in the garage), but she has become conditioned to it. It gets easier, the more bikes you get: when I add a new one, she can't tell! (Whats that about not seeing the forrest for the trees? Or, maybe in this case, the trees for the forrest!! HA!) Jeff N.

[Climb01742]

i find comfort in the fact that there are many other bozos on the bus with me. or maybe that's a bike. (and i mean bozos in the most affectionate, positive way. :D )

[MallyG]

You write:

So why a Serotta? We already know I want a 100% ti bike—no carbon (at 180 pounds, I’m a big guy for steel, plus steel rusts—and I don’t trust aluminum or carbon to last 30 years). But I think what really attracted me to Serotta (other than the paint jobs) is their attention to fit and biomechanics. Seven takes your measurements, but basically all they want is the equivalent of your inseam measurements extended to upper arm, forearm, etc., and then they build you a bike. Serotta wants an interview with you, a discussion of your goals as a cyclist, your riding strengths and weaknesses, what you like and dislike about your current bike, and how you want your bike to handle. Then they put you on their Size Cycle contraption, to get some biomechanical, as well as dimensional, information about you. The whole sizing interview takes a couple of hours. Then, my LBS (City Cycle, in San Francisco) faxes all the info to Serotta in New York. Serotta’s frame builder develops a specification for your bike, including not only dimensions and angles, but tubing diameters and cross-sections. Then Serotta faxes the information back, to see if it sounds like what you actually really want. Only then does Serotta order the tubing from the mill and start cutting, mitering, and welding. That sounds like a custom bike to me.
[I][/

I don't wish to sound cynical, but is this post for real? Sounds like the sort of 'planted' message ad guys are placing just about everywhere on the net. What do you think Climb? Sound like brochure copy to you too? Or am I being unfair?

[ericmurphy]

You write:


I don't wish to sound cynical, but is this post for real? Sounds like the sort of 'planted' message ad guys are placing just about everywhere on the net. What do you think Climb? Sound like brochure copy to you too? Or am I being unfair?

I might be a little over-enthusiastic, but keep in mind that I've been saving for this bike for eight months now, and still have four months to go. Also, this will be the first custom bike I've ever ridden. First ti bike too, for that matter. My current bikes are a 1990 Trek 2300 and a 1992 CDale M1000. Nice bikes, both of them, but they're not even in the same league as my Legend. And I have to say I was completely blown away by the attention to detail displayed by City Cycle when they fitted me for the frame.

But don't worry; I'll be posting pictures when I get the thing. That should remove any doubts. :-)

[dirtdigger88]

Eric,

deck the bike out any way you want man. I was only giving you my opinion on wheels. Look at all of the cars going down the road with 22 inch wheels that keep spinning even when the car is not moving, do those make the car run better. No way!! None of us are pro riders (I don't think), we ride because we can and we want to, Ride what you want and be happy

Jason

[flickwet]

I wish we could edumicate more peoples that serious money spent on a quality bike is the best investment they could possibly ever make toward their physical and mental health. I have friends who choke when I tell them what I have invested in my Colarado (yea, just Colorado,Old ,Beautiful and still fast;the bike not me) Yet they ride Motorcycles that cost 2-5 times what I spent years ago.
To me 7K is alot of money, but not TOO much, I'll be 50 in three years and for me I'll be ordering my Ottrot for that fateful event.

Spend & spin

[dirtdigger88]

Oh an Ottrot for your 50th, too cool. Maybe I should do that. Lets see, about $10,000 for the whole set up, 15 years to save, $666.67 a year (not counting interest I know) That is only $55.56 a month, thats only $1.79 a day. I can do that, I don't think my wife will even care. I am in. . . an Ottrot for my 50th.

Jason

[csb]

[MallyG]

Sorry that I doubted your authenticity. Enjoy your bike and eulogise away!

[Climb01742]

flickwet--why wait 3 years? i could spout a bunch of hallmark cliches, but i'll pick one that must have appeared on a very early hallmark card sent to someone in athens--carpe diem.

mally--i did have a fleeting feeling that eric might somehow be related to ben, but his subsequent posts seem genuine. sorry, mally, over-enthusiasm is an american trait. like electing dopes to high national office.

[flickwet]

I have to wait three years, by then I will have sold all the flyreels,Hardy har har.But seriously, My Colarado will do fine untill then, and in three years I may need to compensate for a very interesting lower back ailment called, "don't dive in there, there are big rocks upon which a judgement challenged youth as yourself could get hurt".Meaning my Colorado fits great for now,but in a few years I may need closer and higher bars.
Question,
I was reading(drooling over) a Serotta catalog recently and it mentioned that the Otrodt(sp?)was stiffer than a legend (w/SDS),Generally speaking,Which would give a more forgiving ride on frost heaved NE Ohio roadways? And is there as was mentioned in passing in the catalog, potential issues of galvanic corrosion due to dissimaller metals and the high conductivity of carbon fiber?

Thankyou all for taking time out of your bizzy daze to review and reflect upon this

Erik
Spend spin and double haul

[MallyG]

flickwet--why wait 3 years? i could spout a bunch of hallmark cliches, but i'll pick one that must have appeared on a very early hallmark card sent to someone in athens--carpe diem.

mally--i did have a fleeting feeling that eric might somehow be related to ben, but his subsequent posts seem genuine. sorry, mally, over-enthusiasm is an american trait. like electing dopes to high national office.

Don't worry - we're learning!

[ericmurphy]

mally--i did have a fleeting feeling that eric might somehow be related to ben, but his subsequent posts seem genuine. sorry, mally, over-enthusiasm is an american trait. like electing dopes to high national office.

No, I've never met Ben (but I have seen pictures!). And I've only actually ridden one of his bikes, once, for about fifteen minutes. But I have dreams about my Serotta...I have a picture of an Ottrott with a similar paint scheme to my Legend, and I use that to keep me from going crazy with impatience (I'm looking at at least three and a half months before I can take delivery of my Legend.

It's true that excess enthusiasm is an irritating Americanism, but at least I could see this particular electoral trainwreck coming back in 2000, and made the appropriate choice. :-)

[ericmurphy]

Question,
I was reading(drooling over) a Serotta catalog recently and it mentioned that the Otrodt(sp?)was stiffer than a legend (w/SDS),Generally speaking,Which would give a more forgiving ride on frost heaved NE Ohio roadways? And is there as was mentioned in passing in the catalog, potential issues of galvanic corrosion due to dissimaller metals and the high conductivity of carbon fiber?

Thankyou all for taking time out of your bizzy daze to review and reflect upon this

Erik
Spend spin and double haul

Actually, this is one of the concerns I had that led me to order a Legend Ti (not ST) rather than an Ottrott (that, and the $1,500 price difference between a Legend Ti and an Ottrott!). I currently ride a 1990 Trek 2300, which is a carbon-aluminum number that's basically glued together for the same reason (potential galvanic corrosion). I've heard that the 2300 actually has internal fiberglass lugs at the interface between the carbon and aluminum, which probably accounts for the less-than-lively ride of that bike (advanced for its time though it was).

But I decided that, since I'm planning on keeping the Legend for at least 20 years, let's stay away from the glue and the conductivity issues and go with solid titanium. It also appeals to the purist deep inside my psyche. :-)

Even though there's no frost out here in the Bay Area, there are occasional earthquakes. :-) Add that to the lack of municipal funds due to Prop 13, and the pavement in many ostensibly wealthy towns out here leaves a lot to be desired. When I ordered my Legend, I specifically stated that ride quality was important to me, for exactly that reason.

If I were you and ride compliance were an issue, I'd go for the Legend.

On the other hand, I've never really ridden either one, so keep that in mind before you pay any attention to me. :-)

[Climb01742]

eric, just enjoy it. enjoy the process, enjoy the waiting, enjoy the dreaming, most of all enjoy the riding. its one of the child-like joys us grumpy grownups can still feel.

[ericmurphy]

eric, just enjoy it. enjoy the process, enjoy the waiting, enjoy the dreaming, most of all enjoy the riding. its one of the child-like joys us grumpy grownups can still feel.

Well, it might be going too far to say I'll be enjoying the wait, but I've got some strategies to deal with the anticipation. I stopped by my LBS to confirm the design Kelly Beford came up with, and while I was there I made some further refinements to the component package that will turn this frame into an actual bicycle. I've decided to stay with the Dura Ace wheels and the F2 fork, despite the expense. I'm also seriously considering having the fork tinted to match the frame. Since the price is climbing towards $7,800 anyway, why the hell not?

I can't see the point of nickel-and-diming the price when I'm spending at least seven grand anyway. And it will be nice to take delivery on a bike that has no weak points, anywhere. Basically, the difference between spending $7,000 and closer to $8,000 is the difference between taking delivery the end of June and the end of July.

I can already hear everyone who lives in other parts of the country saying, "Is he out of his mind? He's missing most of the summer!" But the fact is, out here in the Bay Area, especially in Marin where I do most of my riding, the beginning of August is really the beginning of summer. Prime riding weather is from August until the end of October. So I'll have three great months in which to get in close to 2,000 miles.

What, you think I'll be spending time sleeping when I could be riding? I fully expect to have my first fifty miles in of the weekend by nine in the morning Saturday, once I'm riding my Legend. :-)

[ericmurphy]

I was just reading Andreu's post, the most recent one in the "Serotta v. Seven" thread, and it made me realize something about making decisions about bikes and components at the level of bikes like Serottas, Sevens, Calfees, Merlins, etc. When you're talking about bikes in the the $7,000-$10,000 range, you're not really talking about which one is the theoretical "best" (unless you're a pro whose livelihood depends on winning races). But those of us who are just out there to ride and enjoy the buzz you get from cycling, and who are willing to spend close to five figures on a bicycle, I think are making our decisions on aesthetic grounds as much as anything else. A few posters here have questioned the wisdom of spec'ing my bike with an $800 pair of Dura Ace wheels, and I responded largely on aesthetic grounds (although I have serious doubts that a rider of my ability will be disappointed with a pair of wheels in that price range!). When I was at my LBS yesterday nailing down some of the details on the frame, fork, paint, components, I said, "I'm making a truly frightening number of design decisions on aesthetic grounds."

But is that a bad thing? Unlike Lance, I'm not worried about a bike that will shave 10 seconds off a 190-mile stage. I'm not worried about whether my rear derailleur cage can withstand hundreds of out-of-the-saddle shifts going up the Alpe d' Huez. Spending this kind of money on a bicycle, I'm not really worried about anything. :-)

What I want, though, is a bike that will stir my blood. A bike that will get me out of bed at eight o'clock in the morning on a gray November Saturday, just because I love the way the thing feels under me as I'm doing 30 miles an hour down switchbacks on Mt. Tam. A bike that stands on its own as a symbol of technology and craftsmanship transfigured into art.

Sure, I could spend three grand on a Klein or a Kestrel and get a bike that will be more than adequate for a rider of my abilities. But there are lots of people out there with Kleins and Kestrels, and I've never been one for joining a crowd. I know that when I wheel my Legend out of City Cycle for the first time (hopefully soon!), I'll know that not only is my bike unique in all the world, not only is it the way it is because I chose everything about it. It's also a true work of art, an example of all that is best and most admirable about humans.

In times like these, where humans are often displaying their most troubling characteristics, that seems something worth cherishing.

Okay, now back to our regularly-scheduled program, already in progress...

[Kevan]

Since we basically select everything by aesthetics I think you're taking the right approach; it certainly is the first criteria in decision making. Why even the early caveman used aesthetics first, "Oooo...what a pretty piece of fruit", he said. "I think me will eat it.... YUCK!", only to crawl off somewhere to die an agonizing death because it was poisonous. But hey, that's okay because his fruit-picking buddies who fought over the same piece quickly realized then that the pretty fruit was no good. Instead, they started offering it to their mother-in-laws.

Once we have answered the aesthetic issue we then need to determine, is the item in question safe? Does it work? Who do you have to club to get one (cost)?

I would say aesthetics is most important, but the test isn't complete until the other questions are answered.

[vaxn8r]

I believe you are correct.

My recent dream bike, the Calfee Tetra Pro was chosen over the Luna (cheaper) and DragonFly (more expensive) based on I love how that Tetra Pro is put together with CF wrap and smooth lugs as opposed to the external lugs seen on many CF bikes. All 3 are designed to ride pretty much the same. There's a half pound of weight difference between lightest and heaviest. $1,700 between cheapest and most expensive. But the Tetra Pro was the one which called to me. Price had just about nothing to do with it. No buyer's remorse. You shouldn't either.

[shaq-d]

i surf the net, walk around the house, eat some stuff, read the paper, all to put off biking; my back's a bit stiff, got in a crash couple days ago, left calf i think i pulled something. then, all of a sudden, i look at my bike, keep looking, touch the handlebars -- BIG MISTAKE -- then grab the hoods with both my hands... remember the last ride i had, or riding in general, recalling the feel of going at 60km downhill at the 50km mark of a 80km ride... and within 30 seconds i'm out of the house. aesthetics count? you bet -- it's a reason to ride...

sd

[ericmurphy]

After quite a bit of thought (I can't even say it was an impulse), I've decided to order my F2 fork tinted to match the frame. Since the frame is a specialty Serotta color, that adds $150 to a fork that already costs almost $600.

I'm really going to have to put at least 5,000 miles a year on this bike in order not to feel guilty for spending all this money on it...

[RecordCDA]

...my LBS (City Cycle, in San Francisco) faxes all the info to Serotta in New York.
City Cycle sells a gorgeous wool jersey. A stylish way to top off your ride.

...I doubt I’ll ever run into another bike much better than mine, no matter where I ride.
Unless you bump into Robin Williams out there. I hear he has quite the collection.

And fourth, I’ll have a bike that, aside from being a work of art...
Argue all you want about Campy vs. Shimano, but I don't think anyone will dispute that Campy is the better looking gruppo. I will admit that the DA crankset is nice. Of course, if I had to fight the hills out there, I'd consider the Campy compact crankset (with the Campy derailleur that was designed for it). I'd also consider the Campy all Ti cassette. Just because...

I’ll let you know how it all comes out.
Don't forget to post pictures...

[Hard Fit]

I am sure you will love your new bike. I once justified spending a ton of money on a bike by telling myself it would be the last one I bought. That lasted about 12 years. I think it is just difficult to keep a bike going forever. It seems the technology changes on parts where it becomes difficult to get parts that still work on old bikes.

[OldDog]

as I once wrote to e-richie about m new Sachs a few years back: "as I ride along, glancing down at the top tube and crown, I get a warm fuzzy feeling - life is good!

A great bike rides so much better with a great paint job.

[Doc Austin]

............... I’m planning on keeping this bike for the rest of my cycling life...

Titanium is a good choice for that, but my CSI is 10 years old and it's still clean inside because it has good rustproofing. I have a steel and a Legend TI, and I like them equally. Well, I like whichever one I'm riding at the time better, so you can see how close it is. If you buy a CSI, you'll get the years out of it too.

I just bought a TI so I could be a snob about it. :banana:


After the frame, I’m thinking the place to spend the money is in the wheels and the fork. Serotta’s F2 fork is almost 600 bucks, and frankly I’m not good enough of a rider to appreciate a fork that expensive.........

I can only speak, experience wise, about the difference between a steel and carbon fork. I bought an F-1 Carbon (with steel stem tube) to replace a Serotta lugged steel fork, and the transformation was startling. Since you're already spending $7000, I don't think the fork is a good place to try to save a few bucks. IMHO, Just get the expensive one and know for a fact that you couldn't have done any better.


Most of the rest of the bike will be DA 10-speed too.

Well, now I'm jealous.


For a rider like me, this bike is most assuredly a vanity project. Let’s face it: I’m a 4,000-mile-a-year kind of guy.

HA! That's still alot of riding and you need a superb bike to keep you motivated.

I’ll probably just barely be able to tell the difference between any titanium frame and my 13-year-old carbon-aluminum Trek 2300 with inexpensive Mavic wheels.

Day and night, Dude. Treks are ok, but they ain't Serottas. When I went from a Trek 1200 (which really did serve me well) to a CSI it was like Volkswagon to Porsche.

Where it became tough to choose was comparing a carbon forked CSI to a Legend TI. I'm not sure the difference in money is worth it because I really love both of those bikes. I am sure, however, that the TI will last longer than I do. I might just be able to run the CSI into the ground, but I doubt it.

Exorbitantly expensive?

Not if it makes you want to ride. This is an investment we are talking about here. The dividends are in how healthy a good cycling program can make you, and the bike is merely the tool you need. While I am passionate about my bikes, I justify the expense because these bikes make me want to ride, and I am healthier now than when I was a kid.

I doubt I’ll ever run into another bike much better than mine, no matter where I ride.

Not a ride goes by that someone doesn't tell me that my bike is cool, beautiful or outtasight. You might think that would eventually wear thin, but it doesn't.

[Hap]

Well, I felt the same way when the first Legend Ti was available, and still do today. Rode the Ti for over 10 years and sold it last year to trade up to an Ottrot. I am 66 now, and ride every day here in the South Texas Hill Country. Competiton Red and Yellow, F2 fork, Campy Record 10 spd, carbon (bar, Record cranks & shifters) new Ksyrium ESs, Keo pedals, etc etc. I LOVE MY BIKE! Yeah...fancy fancy, but this is no ego trip...it's my health insurance policy (My Type 2 is DEFEATED!). Let's ride....

[ti_boi]

There is something in the Titanium that puts a foolish grin on my face every time I take the bike out. :D

[Bruce Jacobs]

I have a Legend ST which I got early this summer. It is DuraAce with a compact crank and DT Swiss hubs and rims. I love the bike. It is my only road bike. I weigh about the same as Eric but I guess my butt is more sensitive to expansion joints in the roads and bridges. The ST rear does a nice job on that. I would like to ride the bike 30 more years but then I would be 93. I saw an 80 year old finish the Ironman in Hawaii so there is hope. There is so much passion on this site for the bikes people ride and the feeling of riding a Serotta is worth it.

My wife rides an Ottrot ST. While all this sounds expensive our cars are old and the rest of our lifestyle is pretty sparce. But getting on the bikes and riding for 3.5 hours today over a route we have never done just reinforces the passion about the ride and the bikes.

You will love the bike and never have a regret over the money you spent.

[victork]

I have more money in my Legend then I do my car, and I bought it for the same reasons. After a few moment of buyers remorse, I can confidently state this was one of the best investments I have ever made.

[george]

[QUOTE=Len J
...I have a hard time understanding how you get the price to $8,000? $3,300 for the frame, $200 for the paint (BTW, that also sounds high to me unless the Harliquin is a significant upcharge from Candy Apple Red, another specialty color, that cost me an $80 upcharge), $375 for the fork = $3,875. A DA 10 Build kit with everything including DA/OP Hand built wheels is $2,200, Upcharge to Gucci wheels (+/- $800) s/b around $400, so you're at $6.475, with sales tax you're still under $7,000. The Only thing I can think of is that your retailer is charging you list on every piece you put on the bike. If that's the case, I'd find another retailer... Len[/QUOTE]

How many of us pay full retail? Do you have to be a good negotiator to get a better price?