Placement of Hands on HBars

[Splash]

As your hands are placed on or near the hoods, where should the left side of the hand be placed to optimise comfort and minimise numbness?

The area I am referring to as C8 in the attached picture.

What needs to change (seat position, stem, etc.) to reduce amount of pressure exerted by the hand on the handlebars in this area?

Splash

[John H.]

When on the hoods that part of your hand should not even be strongly pressed on the hoods. More just hanging off to the side.
Maybe a little bit more contact if you are choked up a bit- but not biting in enough to cause pain or numbness.
If you have enough contact to cause pain I would guess that your bars may be too wide, too low, too long or a combination of all 3.
Bars could also be the wrong shape or have the hoods set up wrong. This could push the heel of your hand into the bar in a way that caused numbness.

[weisan]

Splash pal, rather than hand position, to prevent numbness, try alternate or rest your hands between the hood, the top, the drops, the curve of the handlebar, stand up to pedal occasionally... the key is to move around not stay in any one particular position for too long. Also consciously catch yourself gripping too tight or white knuckled, learn to relax, use pedal pressure to push back, take pressure off the hands, strengthen/activate the core...

[mjalder2]

+1 on the core part. Fix your flexibility and core muscles, fix your hand pressure problems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[regularguy412]

Disclaimer: What works for me may not work for you,,, but I've spent a long time figuring out what does work for me.

I try to have a reach to the hoods such that my wrist is straight.. kinda like I'm reaching out to shake hands with someone. Additionally, I'll have the hoods/bars setup and angled such that the weight on my hands is sort of distributed all along my hand/wrist area and not just centered on one spot. This helps to eliminate ulnar nerve pain and hot spots.

When all things are 'right', I can wrap my thumb around one side of the hood, my ring and little fingers under the lever behind the shifter blade and my index and middle fingers sort of 'around' the front of the hood above the brake pivot area. For me, this gives a very solid place to ride and also pull hard if I have to stand abruptly.

As others have noted, it's also very important to have your fore/aft position such that there is not too much or too little weight on your hands. IMO, when properly balanced, you should almost be able to remain in your 'aero' position and remove both hands from the bars without immediately falling forward.

MIke in AR:beer:

[carpediemracing]

When on the hoods that part of your hand should not even be strongly pressed on the hoods. More just hanging off to the side.
Maybe a little bit more contact if you are choked up a bit- but not biting in enough to cause pain or numbness.

This was my first thought also.

When I was getting into cycling I'd ride a lot on the hoods, "light", with very little perceived pressure on the bars. I was supporting myself via core and legs. The other bit is that I was doing this while riding on dirt or rough roads, pretending I was in Paris Roubaix.

I wasn't quite this young but I love this ad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BwnuBVUBsQ

Nowadays I actually spend as little time on the hoods as possible, climbing out of the saddle notwithstanding. I generally spend my time on the tops for a bit then mostly on the drops. This is partially to get me acclimated to being on the drops for 60-90 min at a time in a crit, recruiting the muscles used in that position, and, for long rides over 3-4-5 hours, because that's the most comfortable position for my back.

Although I have a ridiculous "slammed" stem my back is not flat when in the drops because my legs are so short and I'm not skinny. I had some pants hemmed and the seamstress measured my pants. 27-1/4" from crotch to hemmed edge. Since I don't walk around with my pants jammed up there my legs are slightly longer, but they're well under 29". Just worry about saddle/bar relationship, not how it looks on the bike.

[Splash]

Thanks Gents.

For further clarity, it is not the hoods that I am resting my hands on, it is the tops of the handlebar near the hoods. Sorry for not being clear enough in the OP.

These are new handlebars I have installed and today was the first time I have used it, so maybe my hands are still getting used to it??

In anywise, my hands hurt in that C8 area, despite frequent changing of hand position on the handlebars.

The hands don't go numb, but a blanket type constant pressure loading impact type of pain.

How to tell if the handlebars could also be the wrong shape or have the hoods set up wrong? (these bars and hoods were installed by a LBS with lots of exerience in this field). Maybe I shoudl go to another LBS and obtain a second opinion.

regularguy412 - do you have any photos or links that could describe what you have stated?



Splash

[carpediemracing]

If you're getting pain quickly then you need to move your hands or change bars pronto. All the "right" set up in the world doesn't matter if your hand has a nerve in whatever particular spot.

When I got married I wore my wedding ring during rides just a few times. I found that when sprinting, climbing out of the saddle hard, or otherwise gripping the bars hard I felt incredible pain in my hand within seconds. The ring jammed up against something on my finger and the ring felt like a spike being driven into the bones of my finger. I tried all sorts of regular "move my hands around" things but I couldn't make it work.

[John H.]

Don't blame the shop- they usually set hoods up in whatever way they are used to doing it- not necessarily custom for you.
Can you post a straight side angle shot of the bars and hoods?

Thanks Gents.

For further clarity, it is not the hoods that I am resting my hands on, it is the tops of the handlebar near the hoods. Sorry for not being clear enough in the OP.

These are new handlebars I have installed and today was the first time I have used it, so maybe my hands are still getting used to it??

In anywise, my hands hurt in that C8 area, despite frequent changing of hand position on the handlebars.

The hands don't go numb, but a blanket type constant pressure loading impact type of pain.

How to tell if the handlebars could also be the wrong shape or have the hoods set up wrong? (these bars and hoods were installed by a LBS with lots of exerience in this field). Maybe I shoudl go to another LBS and obtain a second opinion.

regularguy412 - do you have any photos or links that could describe what you have stated?



Splash

[Splash]

Thanks John H. and carpediemracing.

Photos attached.

FSA K-Force Light Carbon Handlebars (not compact)..

Everything is new - bar tape, stem, hoods, shifters...



Splash

[cadence90]

If you're placing that much pressure on the C8 zone when on the hoods (C8 on the bars just behind the hoods, right?) are you sure that your saddle and saddle-bar positions are correct, and/or that the stem is not too long?

As others have posted, it seems that you are having to lean forward too far, placing too much stress on your hands in general. There should not be that much weight on your hands.

[m_sasso]

Can you post a side view of your entire bike, curious to see where your saddle is positioned in relation to the rest of your bike?

Thanks!

[Ti Designs]

Try walking on your hands for an hour, see how that goes. Your bike has a place to support your body weight, looks a lot like this:

[Splash]

Any feedback on those handlebar photos / positioning of hoods, etc?

No, I am not sure my saddle and saddle-bar positions are correct, and/or that the stem is not too long.

Yes, it did feel like that I am having to lean forward too far, placing too much stress on my hands in general.

Photos of side view of bike attached.


Splash

[Llewellyn]

I wouldn't claim to be an expert on bike fit but I'd rotate your bars up a bit to level the top of the bars and raise the shifters. From the photo it looks like you'll be leaning forward and down on to the shifters which might be putting more pressure on the area of your hands that you're having trouble with.

But if I'm wrong then feel free to ignore anything I've said.

[cadence90]

Can you post a side view of your entire bike, curious to see where your saddle is positioned in relation to the rest of your bike?

Thanks!
I doubt that will help much, as we don't know Splash's body proportions.

Try walking on your hands for an hour, see how that goes. Your bike has a place to support your body weight, looks a lot like this:
Exactly.
Splash, this is not meant in jest, by either Ti Designs or myself; it is logic.

No, I am not sure my saddle and saddle-bar positions are correct, and/or that the stem is not too long.

Yes, it did feel like that I am having to lean forward too far, placing too much stress on my hands in general.

Photos of side view of bike attached.


Splash
It's pretty impossible to say anything definitive from photos of only the bike, but at least you have the images now.

So, just to experiment, have you tried moving the saddle forward by say 10mm, or lowering it? If moving the saddle works, that will at least tell you are getting closer to a reach and drop for you. Based on that, if the saddle then needs to move back to its original position relative to the bb, you will then know what length /rise stem will better fit you.

NOTE: When doing this, you must first accurately measure and record all current saddle and stem positions and then document every change you make, so that things don't go haywire in your mind and you have a record of both what is helping and what is exacerbating the issue.

I'm no fitter, though. Ti Designs is. Listen to him.

This image shows the positions you need to document now and every time you make any change. You can blank out my numbers and use it as a template.

SADDLE HEIGHT: angular distance from bb center up seat tube to top of saddle.
SADDLE SETBACK: horizontal distance from a vertical line from bb center to tip of saddle (this is not the same as seat tube setback, obviously).
REACH: angular distance from tip of saddle to top-center of bars at stem.
DROP: vertical distance from a parallel-to-ground line from top of saddle down to top of bars at stem center.
STEM: length in mm, rise in degrees.
.
.

[oldpotatoe]

Any feedback on those handlebar photos / positioning of hoods, etc?

No, I am not sure my saddle and saddle-bar positions are correct, and/or that the stem is not too long.

Yes, it did feel like that I am having to lean forward too far, placing too much stress on my hands in general.

Photos of side view of bike attached.


Splash

From the peanut gallery-I'd rotate the handlebars 'up' a little. So that the handlebar end points at the rear brake bridge and then raise the levers so the transition from bar to lever is flat.. ooops, just mentioned by Llewellyn..

PLUS, isn't the mirror on the wrong side? Don't you want to see oncoming traffic on your left?

Last, is your saddle level with the ground? It 'ought' to be.

[cadence90]

From the peanut gallery-I'd rotate the handlebars 'up' a little. So that the handlebar end points at the rear brake bridge and then raise the levers so the transition from bar to lever is flat.. ooops, just mentioned by Llewellyn..

PLUS, isne't the mirror on the wrong side? Don't you want to see oncoming traffic on your left?

Last, is your saddle level with the ground? It 'ought' to be.
Splash rides in Oz-land. Doesn't the water drain differently, down there? ;)

[OtayBW]

My $0.02 from very limited assessment of just a few photos. I'm probably overstepping the bounds of the information that I have available here:

1) From bike pic #3, it looks to me like you're using a bar with very shallow drop and very short reach with a fairly steep ramp transition between the tops and the hooks. I'm guessing that this may tend to angle your hands downward at the wrist when you're on the tops or hoods, depending on the reach. Perhaps try rotating the bars upward very slightly or raising the levers up on the bar just a skosh (looks like you may not have much wiggle room here, however).

2) From bike pic #7, it appears that you're using ~20mm spacer (?) under the stem and a stem with an appreciable (>>6°) rise to reduce bar drop given the limit of your steerer tube height. You're also on a 0° offset seatpost. I'm wondering if your saddle setback, reach, and therefore weight distribution are optimized. Is that bike sized right for you, or is the fit is right? No disrespect, just some observations/questions from a few pics which I'm sure do not convey the whole story.

Good luck.

[oldpotatoe]

Splash rides in Oz-land. Doesn't the water drain differently, down there? ;)

ooops..yes, the water swirls in a different direction in the loo.:beer:

[ColonelJLloyd]

I wouldn't claim to be an expert on bike fit but I'd rotate your bars up a bit to level the top of the bars and raise the shifters. From the photo it looks like you'll be leaning forward and down on to the shifters which might be putting more pressure on the area of your hands that you're having trouble with.

But if I'm wrong then feel free to ignore anything I've said.

+1

I would need to tilt the nose of the saddle up a bit. Slightly incorrect saddle angle/tilt can make a big difference on the weight you are putting on your hands in my experience. Also, if those were my contact points on that frame I would consider it too small. But, that's me (not a racer).

ooops..yes, the water swirls in a different direction in the loo.:beer:

This was my greatest disappointment with my time in Oz. The toilet water didn't flow backward, it just fell through the bottom on all that I used. Scarcity of water and "light" and "heavy" flushing options.

[Splash]

Thanks very much Gents.

Yes, based in Oz - where we are currently enjoying a luxurious warm summer...

All sound advice and will certainly be playing around with all contact points over the next few days. My next outdoor ride will be next Saturday, so i will report out / back again after this ride with the tweaks I have made..

Just FYI - At the same time the handlebars /shifters were changed out, I also had the crankset changed out to a compact 172.5mm crank arm length (from a standard 175mm) - and have not changed the seat height yet.



Splash

[weisan]

ooops..yes, the water swirls in a different direction in the loo.:beer:

I like drinking Aussie water...er...I mean riding on the wrong side of the road.:D
Sorry for the poor video quality, this was taken back in the days before I got the Garmin Virb action cam. ;)

https://vimeo.com/198600262

[m_sasso]

Thanks for posting the side view image. After seeing your saddle position all I am going to say about seat position relative to hand position on the bars is there needs to be some level of priorities, saddle position and foot position on the pedal are your primary power production interests whereas hand position and bar height of are for steering the bike. If your saddle position is out of balance you will be dedicating a disproportion amount of your total energy to holding yourself up rather than moving the bike forward.

[jamesau]

What works for me...

I like to have the flat section of the hoods to be at least level with the ground if not tilted skyward slightly. I would want to rotate your bars back a bit to achieve this (as others had recommended).

I also try to place the weight borne by the hand in one of 3 sections depending on where my hands are placed on the bar. These are the meaty thenar or hyothenar, or the bony knuckles just below the palmar digital creases (see image below). I also try to maintain a wrist angle that doesn't put excess strain on the wrist and change hand positions during the course of the ride to ward off fatigue. (The beauty of drop bars is that they allow so many hand positions).

All this sorta assumes that your weight distribution doesn't place too much weight on your hands in the first place.

[carpediemracing]

Just FYI - At the same time the handlebars /shifters were changed out, I also had the crankset changed out to a compact 172.5mm crank arm length (from a standard 175mm) - and have not changed the seat height yet.

Splash

I'd raise your saddle 2-3mm so your leg extension remains the same. Right now your saddle is 2.5mm closer to the pedals.

If you want to keep your knee/pedal relationship about the same you should also move your saddle back just a bit, the pedals don't go forward quite as far.

When I switch between 170 and 175 cranks I adjust the saddle position accordingly. 5mm down for 175s and about 5mm forward. To verify I measure from top of saddle to the BB axle (same pedals so I don't measure to the pedals) and keep that number the same.

[Mzilliox]

I wouldn't claim to be an expert on bike fit but I'd rotate your bars up a bit to level the top of the bars and raise the shifters. From the photo it looks like you'll be leaning forward and down on to the shifters which might be putting more pressure on the area of your hands that you're having trouble with.

But if I'm wrong then feel free to ignore anything I've said.

this, just rotate backward a bit, that is a bizzare angle for the hoods. plus your drops look to be curving back up toward the sky! then the tops will be more flat and your reach not as far!

[EDS]

Any feedback on those handlebar photos / positioning of hoods, etc?

No, I am not sure my saddle and saddle-bar positions are correct, and/or that the stem is not too long.

Yes, it did feel like that I am having to lean forward too far, placing too much stress on my hands in general.

Photos of side view of bike attached.


Splash

Personally, I prefer a flat ramp from bars to hoods. Your bike appears to be set up with the bars tilted down. That would probably cause me wrist/hand pain too. But, as others have noted, your experience/fit may differ.

[benb]

Lots of the same old advice about adjusting other fit parameters to keep the weight off the hands.

That said IMO the hoods just aren't that ergonomic and comfortable, at least not the way they've been sold. I get the impression we are the first generation of riders to ride decades on STI/Ergo style combined brake/shifters where we use the hood position the majority of the time.

For me over time I'm just not sure I believe in the long term of my life the hoods are going to stay comfortable no matter what I do. I hang my hands off the sides as mentioned in this thread and get the idea of not putting a lot of weight on the hands but in the end you still have to squeeze the hoods hard for braking and if you're braking and hitting bumps you are still making your arm a rigid support and sending shock waves up into the wrist bones. No matter what your wrist is a heck of a lot stronger when you've got your fingers closed around a bar shape as opposed to loosely wrapped around a shape like the hood. It's not JRA and supporting weight that wrecks my wrists on the hoods, it's braking and shifting movements over long rides.

It is possible you're just not meant to ride the hoods for 30-40 years of your life. I'm really wondering myself.. for me the hoods aren't really long enough, I can only get about half my hand wrapped around the hood so any time I have to brake or get out of the saddle anything its a very poor ergonomic setup. I am thinking in the long run I may be better off switching to another style of bar that doesn't present the same fit issues due to being dependent on a non-adjustable expensive component. (length of the hood)

Flat ramp from the bars to the hood is best for me.. but a big part of the issue is my hand is large enough that I can't get my pinky & ring finger wrapped around the hood. So when I do things like squeeze the brakes I have my ring & pinky open and index & middle finger squeezing. Hardly an ergonomic position. On a MTB bar I have all the fingers curled when squeezing the brakes.

AFAICT for me a big part of the issue is shocks hitting the head of the pisiform bone when riding on the hoods. That bone stays a lot further away from the bar when riding tops/drops and on a MTB bar or other style of bar. Over time the tendons/ligaments attached to the pisiform bone have gotten pretty sensitive to pressure on the bone.

[ergott]

Photos of side view of bike attached.


Splash


Have you tried the David Kirk method for checking saddle satback?
http://kirkframeworks.com/2009/06/19/riding-tip-3/

If I were to guess, you could probably benefit from more saddle setback using an offset seatpost, but that's just a guess. Try the above and see. If you are falling too far forward on the bike with no hands it will result in too much hand pressure and the sensations you describe.

[Bob Ross]

Just to answer OP's question w/ a data set of (1) ...since I just happened to have this pic handy:

http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u495/bob_ross4/Thumb%202%20IMG_2800_zpsltrg5ya1.jpg

fwiw: "C8" is nowhere near the hoods/bars.

[Splash]

Have you tried the David Kirk method for checking saddle satback?
http://kirkframeworks.com/2009/06/19/riding-tip-3/

If I were to guess, you could probably benefit from more saddle setback using an offset seatpost, but that's just a guess. Try the above and see. If you are falling too far forward on the bike with no hands it will result in too much hand pressure and the sensations you describe.

No, I have not yet tried David Kirks method, but will have a go over next few days.. Thanks

Splash

[Splash]

Flat ramp from the bars to the hood is best for me.. but a big part of the issue is my hand is large enough that I can't get my pinky & ring finger wrapped around the hood. So when I do things like squeeze the brakes I have my ring & pinky open and index & middle finger squeezing. Hardly an ergonomic position.


What brand of bar do you use?


Splash

[Splash]

Good pics Bob Ross and Jamesau


All - great feedback - keep it coming..


Splash

[HenryA]

Rotate the bars up a bit and then raise the levers up on the bars so they point a bit higher. This will shift your contact pressure into the pocket between your thumb and index finger.

Do not listen to comments about how that looks. Get it comfortable and it will be your good position, not what might be right for someone else or what looks "pro".

[ergott]

Rotate the bars up a bit and then raise the levers up on the bars so they point a bit higher. This will shift your contact pressure into the pocket between your thumb and index finger.

Do not listen to comments about how that looks. Get it comfortable and it will be your good position, not what might be right for someone else or what looks "pro".

It's not as simple as "how it looks". The amount of weight on the hands often stems from setup issues between the pedals and saddle. If you get the cleats on up to the saddle right first, you will see more improvements in upper body comfort.

[HenryA]

It's not as simple as "how it looks". The amount of weight on the hands often stems from setup issues between the pedals and saddle. If you get the cleats on up to the saddle right first, you will see more improvements in upper body comfort.

Right.
I'm saying it does not matter how it looks. But it does matter how it feels. Moving weight off the affected part of the palm should make a difference in how it feels.