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View Full Version : This is why I don't believe Floyd


hmbmd
07-30-2006, 09:51 AM
During Saturday's press conference in Madrid, Landis' attorney outlined three arguments of defense.



First, Landis failed the anti-doping test because he has naturally occurring high testosterone and epitestosterone levels dating back to his childhood.


I guess that these naturally occuring high testosterone and epitestosterone levels dating back to childhood occur only on the third Thursday in July!!! since the other times he was tested in yellow the levels were normal.


Second, Landis will under endocrine studies that will reveal the naturally high levels, and third, that the testing method used by the Châtenay-Malabry laboratory is unfounded and that the lab, without telling the UCI and thus breaking protocol, that the positive is exogenous testosterone.

"There is no laboratory in the world that still uses this testing method because of tremendous faults," Buxeda said. "Even though it has come back as a positive according to this testing method, we cannot absolutely say that this signifies a positive doping case."

I guess the lab that tested Justin Gatlin (Track and Field Sprinter) and found him with high testosterone levels is also using an unfounded test.

In addtion, Floyd's doctor says that there is no immediate benefit to using testosterone. Look at the below quote:

Jesús Manzano, the ex-pro who revealed insider details of doping a series of paid interviews two years, said that testosterone can be taken during competition and its effects can be felt "almost immediately."

In an article with his byline in the Spanish daily AS, Manzano outlined the way riders can take testosterone during a competition, undercutting the argument that testosterone is a substance taken over weeks and months to slowly build strength and resistance.

Manzano's interviews helped draw attention to controversial Spanish doctor Eufemiano Fuentes, who is now at the center of an ongoing doping investigation in Spain.

"Its effects are felt almost immediately," Manzano wrote. "It gives you a lot of force and produces a euphoria."

Manzano outlined three ways to take testosterone during a competition.

First are patches, called AndroGel, which are applied in during a light massage usually during the evening mealtime. Manzano said the patches had to be used less than two hours to not risk going above the T/E ratio threshold and risking a positive doping test. Manzano also said clandestine suppositories are used as well as intravenous injections, called Rastandol, taking about 20 minutes to 1 hour before competition.

Another option are pills of Andriol, called "beans" in the cycling underworld, but these usually take several days to kick in and he said it's not likely riders would use them during competition.

I think Floyd was clean until he bonked on Stage 16. He was rumored to be walking the halls of his hotel that night talking to himself and saying "I must win this race." His racing future in jeopardy because of his pending hip replacement, he took a risk and used the steroid for stage 17. This is the only way to explain negative T/E results for all previous tests. It is too coincidental to have happened after stage 17.

I hope I am wrong, however I do not think so.

Big Dan
07-30-2006, 10:04 AM
Bro, I don't like when people need more than one excuse..... :no:
The first explanation should work, no?

Did Floyd Landis dope? "Of course not," said Phonak team physician Dr. Denise Demir to German tabloid Bild. "I would put my hand in the fire for him. It is unbelievable what is happening with him. The damage to his image is gigantic."

Doctor Demir added "the testosterone test is controversial, some say that it is faulty. And there are sharp swings in testosterone levels. In addition to his hip problem, Floyd has thyroid problems - that could have affected the testosterone levels. Plus he drank both beer and whiskey on the evening before the stage. Alcohol consumption can also have an influence, which was news to me."

But how could Landis have turned in such an overwhelming performance after his breakdown the day before, the doctor was asked?

slowgoing
07-30-2006, 10:05 AM
Never trust the lawyers.

Endless Goods
07-30-2006, 10:54 AM
Very curious timing on the Gatlin incident. I wonder why he wasn't informed sooner (April event where he tested positive)?

Doesn't help Floyd's "case"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060730/ap_on_sp_ot/run_gatlin_doping

Lifelover
07-30-2006, 11:07 AM
Very curious timing on the Gatlin incident. I wonder why he wasn't informed sooner (April event where he tested positive)?

Doesn't help Floyd's "case"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060730/ap_on_sp_ot/run_gatlin_doping


How does this reflect on Floyds case at all?

Seems like a leap regardless of your position.

shaq-d
07-30-2006, 12:38 PM
i don't believe floyd at all. you guys supporting floyd look ilke the tyler hamilton fans. please face reality, thanks :rolleyes:

i think what floyd has said has been very lawyer-like too. things like "i didn't haev an unfair advantage"; "i didn't cheat"; "i'll say i didn't dope". etc. none of those actually means that he didn't dope.
1. "not having an unfair advantage" could just as easily mean that everyone else dopes, as does he
2. "i didn't cheat" could just as easily mean that everyone else dopes, as does he
3. "i'll say i didn't dope" does not mean "i didn't dope".

sd

ThasFACE
07-30-2006, 01:01 PM
i think what floyd has said has been very lawyer-like too.

I don't disagree with you, but what is so bad about lawyer-like language?

He is currently in hot water with the 'law' of cycling, so, guilty or not (and we should give him the benefit of the doubt pending at least the second test), lawyer-like responses seem appropriate in that they keep the most lines of attack open.

I suspect that most people, if put in Landis's position (and faced with losing so much), would break out every latin phrase and vague statement that they could get their hands on in the hope of proving their innocence... especially if they actually are innocent.

Anyway, those statements you pointed out could be argued to have been just as supportive of his innocence as his guilt, so we don't really know anything and won't know anything until these tests come back or Landis makes some kind of admission.


jb

Endless Goods
07-30-2006, 01:20 PM
How does this reflect on Floyds case at all?

Seems like a leap regardless of your position.

Shows the prevalance of doping with artificial testosterone...and in the court of public opinion makes it more difficult for him to proclaim innocence.

Recent news- exogenous testoserone in Floyd's sample...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul31news

Big Dan
07-30-2006, 01:31 PM
Well that's why they need to go after the accuracy of the test......
Sounds more and more like Tyler........... :(

Johny
07-30-2006, 02:02 PM
Recent news- exogenous testoserone in Floyd's sample...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul31news
.....
But, much more important than this seems to be that the tests performed on Landis' A sample included an Isotope Ratio Mass Spectrometry (IRMS) procedure, used to determine whether the testosterone is synthetic (thus exogenous, administered to the body) or natural (endogenous, produced by the body itself). In the case of the American, the analysis determined testosterone of artificial origin.

But Jose Maria Buxeda, Landis' attorney, contests the detection method via IRMS. "It's not reliable," he told French L'Equipe. "Most laboratories do not use it. In fact, the laboratory of Chatenay-Malabry must be the only one still using it." In the same edition of the paper, however, Christiane Ayotte, director of the anti-doping laboratory in Montreal, Canada, disagrees. "We use the method regularly," she said. "Moreover, more than half of the WADA-accredited labs perform it successfully. I'd even say that an IRMS which gives a synthetic result is very hard to contest. It's not a method that anyone can apply but the LNDD (Laboratoire de Chatenay-Malabry) has totally proven itself in this domain."

It has been pointed out that Landis' thyroid problems, the treatment of his inflamed hip with corticosteroids, as well as drinking alcohol on the night prior to stage 17, could be factors which could have affected his testosterone levels. "As soon as an athlete is controlled positive for testosterone, the same old stories come up," Ayotte continued. "The increase, even if natural, of the ratio testosterone/epitestosterone cannot, in any case, be explained by taking thyroid hormones or corticosteroids. Alcohol can in fact influence it, but only with women, and only for three or four hours."

Big Dan
07-30-2006, 02:40 PM
A classic..........




Morning came and I was on my way
When you reminded me
I had too soon forgotten
It was you that set me free

Yeah, you were here when I came
You'll be here when I'm gone
So don't be waiting on love
Because I'll be waiting to ramble on

Headed for a heartbreak
Headed for a heartbreak

Darling, don't wait up for me
Tonight I won't be home
You've become a stranger
I just got to be alone

Don't need nobody on my side
To dull the blade I'm on
So don't be waiting on love
'Cause I'll be waiting to ramble on

Headed for a heartbreak
Headed for a heartbreak
Headed for a heartbreak

It's not a mistake
Don't you think I can feel the pain
I walk away
To live again

Headed for a heartbreak
Headed for a heartbreak
(Don't make me hurt you)
Headed for a heartbreak
(Well I don't know_______)
Headed for a heartbreak

Don't you think I feel the pain

Pedro72
07-30-2006, 03:08 PM
A classic..........




Morning came and I was on my way
When you reminded me
I had too soon forgotten
It was you that set me free

Yeah, you were here when I came
You'll be here when I'm gone
So don't be waiting on love
Because I'll be waiting to ramble on

Headed for a heartbreak
Headed for a heartbreak

Darling, don't wait up for me
Tonight I won't be home
You've become a stranger
I just got to be alone

Don't need nobody on my side
To dull the blade I'm on
So don't be waiting on love
'Cause I'll be waiting to ramble on

Headed for a heartbreak
Headed for a heartbreak
Headed for a heartbreak

It's not a mistake
Don't you think I can feel the pain
I walk away
To live again

Headed for a heartbreak
Headed for a heartbreak
(Don't make me hurt you)
Headed for a heartbreak
(Well I don't know_______)
Headed for a heartbreak

Don't you think I feel the pain

Winger? LMAO

Big Dan
07-30-2006, 03:18 PM
You are correct sir..... :D

:bike:

shaq-d
07-30-2006, 04:46 PM
Recent news- exogenous testoserone in Floyd's sample...

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/jul06/jul31news

that's proof enough.. do we still need to go through months and years of bullshat, like we did with tyler hamilton? give it up already. he doped.

sd