The Haywire Heart

[Rpoole8537]

Chris Case, John Mandrola, M.D., and Leonard Zinn have published a new book, The Haywire Heart. Two years ago, I had an ablation to control Afib and Aflutter. Damn, I wish this book had been available at that time. I know that many of us have had heart rhythm issues and this book addresses the issues from an endurance athlete's perspective. Great read. Dr. Mandrola is a cardiologist, a bike rider, and has Afib. His explanations concerning the biological mechanisms in the heart, and the related research are enlightening.

[soulspinner]

Gotta read it thanks. I have been blessed with 3 types of arrhythmia.

[onsight512]

thanks. looking forward to reading it.

[gasman]

Here's a link to the book. I'm going to get it when it comes out in paperback.

https://www.amazon.com/Haywire-Heart-exercise-protect-heart/dp/1937715671

[Peter P.]

I had experiences similar to Zinn's this year, including the doctor pointing me to the emergency room.

As a result, I had a pacemaker implanted in November, at the age of 56. My heart was not only missing a beat, but while the top chamber might be beating at say, 130bpm while riding, the bottom chamber would beat at a much lower, rate. Affect my riding?; it pretty much causes a meltdown. Surprisingly, the doctors told me it's very common but it doesn't bother most people such that they either never seek treatment or have no clue it's going on.

Funny story: I recently went to the doctor for my first follow-up post-surgery.
The cardio electrophysiologist was checking the pacemaker for function and adjusting it as necessary.

The doctor uses a slightly oversized laptop with an elaborate display. I hold a device which looks like a similarly slightly oversized computer mouse, against the pacemaker.

During the visit, I'm sitting on the table holding the sensor against my skin and I feel my heart instantly increase in both rate and intensity.

"Hey doc; are you making any adjustments?"

"No, why?"

"I can feel my heart going BANG, BANG, BANG and the rate increased!"

"Ooops! I had my finger on the wrong button. Let's hope I don't do that again!"

As the doctor briefly explained, on the left side of the computer screen is a red button that is some sort of emergency button. It immediately sets the pacemaker to a certain pattern in case something goes awry with the programming or the patient.

Then he tried to dismiss what I felt by telling me what I probably felt was my pectoral or intercostal muscles twitching instead...

[stephenmarklay]

The velo news podcast had Zinn on talking about this today. Lots of us are coming of or in the age that this is a potential issue. I have benign misfire that does not effect my cycling but who knows.

It makes you think about how to proceed with the things you enjoy in life. I guess consistency rather than intensity, rest and not over doing it are important factors.

I wonder how athletes compare to the general population as far is this goes?

[Rpoole8537]

Endurance athletes are at a higher risk for developing heart rhythm issues. Other factors include gender and height, yes height. (I'm 6'3".). Also, males are at higher risk, but females have higher risk of stroke if they have rhythm issues. I think I remember the book pointing out that anxiety and stress are also factors. I have lived in Upstate SC for 23 years and I could probably name about 40 males that I have ridden with during that time. We are all in our 60's and 70's now. Eight of us have had heart issues. Two guys died on their bikes. Another guy had a heart attack riding up a hill beside me. He was rushed to the hospital and survived. However, he refuses to ride again. Two of us had ablations and still ride. I try to take it easier now. I now have PVC's. Flecanide and magnesium seem to control them. I now have triples on all my bikes. There doesn't seem to be a magic number of years or miles or races. If this sounds depressing, I'm not sure I'd change anything. I like to keep moving and that's just how I'm wired.

[stephenmarklay]

Endurance athletes are at a higher risk for developing heart rhythm issues. Other factors include gender and height, yes height. (I'm 6'3".). Also, males are at higher risk, but females have higher risk of stroke if they have rhythm issues. I think I remember the book pointing out that anxiety and stress are also factors. I have lived in Upstate SC for 23 years and I could probably name about 40 males that I have ridden with during that time. We are all in our 60's and 70's now. Eight of us have had heart issues. Two guys died on their bikes. Another guy had a heart attack riding up a hill beside me. He was rushed to the hospital and survived. However, he refuses to ride again. Two of us had ablations and still ride. I try to take it easier now. I now have PVC's. Flecanide and magnesium seem to control them. I now have triples on all my bikes. There doesn't seem to be a magic number of years or miles or races. If this sounds depressing, I'm not sure I'd change anything. I like to keep moving and that's just how I'm wired.

I’m glad your still riding. I had coffee with a friend yesterday who had an ablation about 2 years ago and he was only 41. That procedure did not “work” in his words but he did say that he takes hawthorn berry and that it controls it. He is able ride normally. Every case is different I am sure.

This makes me think that long base miles may have there place to get fit with less potential down sides.

EDIT: This made me way to look up Hawthorn berry and I pulled this from webmd. Man I may be buying some Hawthorn.

Hawthorn is a plant. The leaves, berries, and flowers of hawthorn are used to make medicine.

Hawthorn is used for diseases of the heart and blood vessels such as congestive heart failure (CHF), chest pain, and irregular heartbeat. It is also used to treat both low blood pressure and high blood pressure, “hardening of the arteries” (atherosclerosis), and high cholesterol. So far, research suggests that hawthorn might be effective in treating congestive heart failure, but there hasn’t been enough research on other heart-related uses to know if it is effective for them.

Some people use hawthorn for digestive system complaints such as indigestion, diarrhea, and stomach pain. It is also used to reduce anxiety, as a sedative, to increase urine output, and for menstrual problems.

Hawthorn is also used to treat tapeworm and other intestinal infections.

Some people apply hawthorn to the skin for boils, sores, and ulcers. Hawthorn preparations are used as a wash for sores, itching, and frostbite.

You will find hawthorn among the ingredients in candied fruit slices, jam, jelly, and wine.

Before taking hawthorn, talk with your healthcare professional if you take any medications. It has major interactions with several prescription medications.

How does it work?
Hawthorn can help improve the amount of blood pumped out of the heart during contractions, widen the blood vessels, and increase the transmission of nerve signals.

Hawthorn also seems to have blood pressure-lowering activity, according to early research. It seems to cause relaxing of the blood vessels farther from the heart. It seems that this effect is due to a component in hawthorn called proanthocyanidin.

Research suggests that hawthorn can lower cholesterol, low density lipoprotein (LDL, or “bad cholesterol”), and triglycerides (fats in the blood). It seems to lower accumulation of fats in the liver and the aorta (the largest artery in the body, located near the heart). Hawthorn fruit extract may lower cholesterol by increasing the excretion of bile, reducing the formation of cholesterol, and enhancing the receptors for LDLs. It also seems to have antioxidant activity.

[Jgrooms]

I find it interesting that the training methods mostly recommended for masters athletes are built around maximizing intensity. Gotta go hard, no time for base!


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[marciero]

I find it interesting that the training methods mostly recommended for masters athletes are built around maximizing intensity. Gotta go hard, no time for base!


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I know. This is what I am trying to reconcile. Some successful masters athletes that train with intensity, like Ned Overend, seem to have limited volume and lots of recovery. So it could be more of a total workload thing. Maybe this is addressed in the book. My copy arrived yesterday. So far (intro and preface) the authors do point out the difficulty of determining causal relationships in exercise science, and also acknowledge that the scientific community is divided on the role of exercise and arrhythmia.

[Macadamia]

Yeah just heard the velonews podcast with this, I'm not in the age range but I do know some people that are. I guess this article from last year was kind of a preview to the book: http://www.velonews.com/cycling-to-extremes-heart-health-and-endurance-sports

A long but good read.

[steamer]

I’m glad your still riding. I had coffee with a friend yesterday who had an ablation about 2 years ago and he was only 41. That procedure did not “work” in his words but he did say that he takes hawthorn berry and that it controls it. He is able ride normally. Every case is different I am sure.

This makes me think that long base miles may have there place to get fit with less potential down sides.

EDIT: This made me way to look up Hawthorn berry and I pulled this from webmd. Man I may be buying some Hawthorn.

Hawthorn is a plant. The leaves, berries, and flowers of hawthorn are used to make medicine.

Hawthorn is used for diseases of the heart and blood vessels such as congestive heart failure (CHF), chest pain, and irregular heartbeat. It is also used to treat both low blood pressure and high blood pressure, “hardening of the arteries” (atherosclerosis), and high cholesterol. So far, research suggests that hawthorn might be effective in treating congestive heart failure, but there hasn’t been enough research on other heart-related uses to know if it is effective for them.

Some people use hawthorn for digestive system complaints such as indigestion, diarrhea, and stomach pain. It is also used to reduce anxiety, as a sedative, to increase urine output, and for menstrual problems.

Hawthorn is also used to treat tapeworm and other intestinal infections.

Some people apply hawthorn to the skin for boils, sores, and ulcers. Hawthorn preparations are used as a wash for sores, itching, and frostbite.

You will find hawthorn among the ingredients in candied fruit slices, jam, jelly, and wine.

Before taking hawthorn, talk with your healthcare professional if you take any medications. It has major interactions with several prescription medications.

How does it work?
Hawthorn can help improve the amount of blood pumped out of the heart during contractions, widen the blood vessels, and increase the transmission of nerve signals.

Hawthorn also seems to have blood pressure-lowering activity, according to early research. It seems to cause relaxing of the blood vessels farther from the heart. It seems that this effect is due to a component in hawthorn called proanthocyanidin.

Research suggests that hawthorn can lower cholesterol, low density lipoprotein (LDL, or “bad cholesterol”), and triglycerides (fats in the blood). It seems to lower accumulation of fats in the liver and the aorta (the largest artery in the body, located near the heart). Hawthorn fruit extract may lower cholesterol by increasing the excretion of bile, reducing the formation of cholesterol, and enhancing the receptors for LDLs. It also seems to have antioxidant activity.

If you are going to take hawthorn, get one that is primarily an extract of the leaves and flowers, not the berry: http://www.drweil.com/vitamins-supplements-herbs/herbs/hawthorn/

Fish oil, CoQ10, and magnesium can be considered too.

Try to eat lots of high potassium foods.

I am not a doc, but these have helped me with my PACs. (as did reducing caffeine and alcohol).

[stephenmarklay]

If you are going to take hawthorn, get one that is primarily an extract of the leaves and flowers, not the berry: http://www.drweil.com/vitamins-supplements-herbs/herbs/hawthorn/

Fish oil, CoQ10, and magnesium can be considered too.

Try to eat lots of high potassium foods.

I am not a doc, but these have helped me with my PACs. (as did reducing caffeine and alcohol).


Thank you. The one thing that brings my flutter on is theobromine. That is a stimulant in chocolate.

[Clydesdale]

https://soundcloud.com/user-562497687/vn-podcast-ep-10-jumping-wiggo-vos-is-back-and-the-fit-mans-heart-problem - starting at about 25 minutes in. As a fellow Afib sufferer, this is really interesting stuff.

[SoCalSteve]

Gotta read it thanks. I have been blessed with 3 types of arrhythmia.

I've had two types, both cured ( hopefully forever ) with ablation procedures. SVT and A-Fib.

[soulspinner]

I've had two types, both cured ( hopefully forever ) with ablation procedures. SVT and A-Fib.

SVTs, PACs, PVCs and with upcoming total hip replacement Im a little nervous. My Primary assures me it will be fine, but...glad yours appear to be resolved.

[2wheelwill]

Thanks for the book info - just ordered it. Ended up hooked up to an EKG this summer as I was having a pounding sensation in my chest when I was going to sleep. Docs ran all the test and said I was fine and this was either stress, caffeine or old age. Cardiologist said "it's heart flutter, you're fine." Six months later I'm caffeine free, exercise more regularly, lowered my stress....and still have the pounding sensation. It comes and goes and I can't figure out what triggers it. I turn 47 this year....hate to see what 65 will look like!!!


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[steveoz]

think I need to be following this thread and ordering that book - and the description of how Hawthorn plant works sounds like I need to be looking into that as well.... had a couple of instances during a heavy exertion situation (like trying to keep up with faaast riders) where it felt like I couldn't get O2 to my system - was breathing hard but that wasn't the problem - my whole system felt like I was suffocating it - freaked me out a bit but chalked it up to stupidity...had it again pumping up over the only climb on my ride - a high overpass on the hwy... (had to pass some punk kid who thought he was special on his Specialized... lol..)

[Jgrooms]

Thanks for the book info - just ordered it. Ended up hooked up to an EKG this summer as I was having a pounding sensation in my chest when I was going to sleep. Docs ran all the test and said I was fine and this was either stress, caffeine or old age. Cardiologist said "it's heart flutter, you're fine." Six months later I'm caffeine free, exercise more regularly, lowered my stress....and still have the pounding sensation. It comes and goes and I can't figure out what triggers it. I turn 47 this year....hate to see what 65 will look like!!!


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Curious, how much caffeine brought this on & what form?


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[oldpotatoe]

Thanks for the book info - just ordered it. Ended up hooked up to an EKG this summer as I was having a pounding sensation in my chest when I was going to sleep. Docs ran all the test and said I was fine and this was either stress, caffeine or old age. Cardiologist said "it's heart flutter, you're fine." Six months later I'm caffeine free, exercise more regularly, lowered my stress....and still have the pounding sensation. It comes and goes and I can't figure out what triggers it. I turn 47 this year....hate to see what 65 will look like!!!


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How much alcohol do you drink? My afib was almost entirely related to 'hangover heart'..lots of drinking when I owned the shop(plus stress)..

[Jgrooms]

https://soundcloud.com/user-562497687/vn-podcast-ep-10-jumping-wiggo-vos-is-back-and-the-fit-mans-heart-problem - starting at about 25 minutes in. As a fellow Afib sufferer, this is really interesting stuff.



Thanks for sharing.

Zinn seems to contradict himself. Is it the intensity or the "16 hr, 200 mile ride"? Not to discount his personal experience & all the people he knows, but he comes across as an expert on a complicated subject. Maybe thats just him, since he is an acknowledged expert in other cycling areas?

For years we've been told that the older athlete isn't as 'handicapped' as previously thought. Older athletes in endurance sports continued to win & perform. Now its your'e old & stuff just doesn't work anymore.


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[OtayBW]

...Docs ran all the test and said I was fine and this was either stress, caffeine or old age.Oh Noooooo!... :(

Six months later I'm caffeine free, exercise more regularly, lowered my stress....and still have the pounding sensation. It comes and goes and I can't figure out what triggers it.Clearly not the caffeine!!! :banana:

Curious, how much caffeine brought this on & what form? NOOOOOooooo!...:eek:

I've had a mild arrhythmia (mostly manifest as like a long skipped beat every few minutes - a little creepy...) for years that finally was controlled by a lowest dose of an ace inhibitor. I notice no ill-effect from it. I was initially on a low dose of a beta-blocker which controlled it well, but that stuff really screws with (blunts) your heart rate and is bad juju for cycling. Not sure the real consequeunces of the ace inhibitor for that matter, either, but it seems to be pretty benign.

I also have a unique condition where my cardiac rhythm goes into 'ST Depression' at or above lactate threshold. This is essentially like the signal someone gets when they go into sudden cardiac arrest from snow shovelling or something like that. So, it really flipped out three sets of cardiologists in separate tests, including nuclear stress tests and catheter. It's all very unusual and initially of some significant concern to them, but I have been given a clean bill of health, and this, in fact, was ~7 years ago and I have many, many miles behind me since then with no problem. I just turned 62, btw, and am still going strong.

So - thanks for the recommendation. I will order the book. And I will still drink my coffee!! :banana:

[Clydesdale]

Mine started about 6 years ago in my early 40's. Several long episodes of very erratic heart beat. Doc initially thought it wasn't Afib because my pulse was not very high while it was happening. Scan confirmed it as Afib and my doc took me off caffeine and started a low dose Beta Blocker (also mentioned alcohol but I'm not a drinker). Cardiologist basically said they don't know if either of those things matter, but it seems to have worked as I have had very few and very short episodes since then (which mostly coincide with cheating on caffeine). I miss "top end" on the bike but other than that have had no real side effects. (Ok, I also miss black tea and real coke)

Thanks for the heads up on the book. I look forward to reading it.

[JasonF]

Aside from an irregular heartbeat, consider doing a calcium scan to check for blockages.

My older brother had a non-fatal heart attached at 40 (9 years ago), which seemed unusual since he's very fit and runs marathons. So that caught my attention. In addition to a stress test, I got a script from my GP for a calcium score test. It took 15 minutes, was super easy to schedule, and I had the report from the cardiologist within an hour. I had a score of "zero" which indicated no hard plaque buildup.

Cost was $95 (Midtown Manhattan) and was not covered by insurance - but it was among the best $95 I've ever spent.

[OtayBW]

My older brother had a non-fatal heart attached at 40 (9 years ago), which seemed unusual since he's very fit and runs marathons. So that caught my attention.Well - so what was the 'post-mortem' (forgive me)? Was there a blockage or something? Did they do a cath/stent, or whatever?

[JasonF]

Well - so what was the 'post-mortem' (forgive me)? Was there a blockage or something? Did they do a cath/stent, or whatever?

Should've added the post-script: yes 2 blockages that were stented and now he's back to running & workout out.

[classtimesailer]

I also have a unique condition where my cardiac rhythm goes into 'ST Depression' at or above lactate threshold. This is essentially like the signal someone gets when they go into sudden cardiac arrest from snow shovelling or something like that. So, it really flipped out three sets of cardiologists in separate tests, including nuclear stress tests and catheter. It's all very unusual and initially of some significant concern to them, but I have been given a clean bill of health, and this, in fact, was ~7 years ago and I have many, many miles behind me since then with no problem. I just turned 62, btw, and am still going strong.

Where/who does this testing? I don't have rhythm issues but it would be interesting to know how my 6 year old porcine aortic valve behaves during a workout.

[OtayBW]

Where/who does this testing? I don't have rhythm issues but it would be interesting to know how my 6 year old porcine aortic valve behaves during a workout.
I think any internist can order a stress test for you if you are concerned, and that can be done almost anywhere. In my case, the stress test results must have been kind of shocking because ~13 minutes into that test at high intensity, they suddenly pulled the plug and sent me home. I got a call from my internist within 30 minutes informing me that "I was going to see a cardiologist tomorrow morning at 9:00 am". I was then scheduled me for n a cardiac catheter the next day, and from what I've been told, I came back "clean as a whistle".

So, everybody is all very puzzled by this and it was then they then ordered the nuclear stress (treadmill) test which showed the same ST Depression effect when I went anaerobic. I ended up having a 3rd stress test later that again showed the same effect. The upshot is that although this is all ver unusual, this is apparently just the way it is with me and I was cleared to return to normal (riding) activity).

GL in your case. I think you can easily follow this up with either your internist or cardiologist.

[Rpoole8537]

Last year there was a very informative TED video entitled, "Run for Your Life, But Not Too Far". I can't remember the name of the cardiologist, but he demonstrated how blockages can form in runners, cyclists and other endurance athletes. He was a serious runner, but now runs two miles twice each week. I looked for it this morning but could not find it. Is there an archive for TED???
The description of the physical and neurotransmitters mechanisms by Dr. Mandrola, and what can go wrong in the endurance athletes' hearts is enlightening. It always helps me to know the details of whatever is impacting my heath. I'm not OCD, but I do like to know the details.
Does anyone have a particular brand of Hawthorne that is only leaves and flowers? And, why is this important?

[2wheelwill]

Curious, how much caffeine brought this on & what form?


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I was at most drinking two cups of coffee and a Diet Coke each day. Zero caffeine now and contemplating if I should give up my beloved chocolate.


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[Jgrooms]

Last year there was a very informative TED video entitled, "Run for Your Life, But Not Too Far". I can't remember the name of the cardiologist, but he demonstrated how blockages can form in runners, cyclists and other endurance athletes. He was a serious runner, but now runs two miles twice each week. I looked for it this morning but could not find it. Is there an archive for TED????


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6U728AZnV0




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[Jgrooms]

But in comparison there's this. Of course this is not on cardiology perspective or is he an MD.

The evolutionary hypothesis would be pro endurance.

http://www.npr.org/2015/11/20/455904655/how-did-endurance-help-early-humans-survive


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[stephenmarklay]

I was at most drinking two cups of coffee and a Diet Coke each day. Zero caffeine now and contemplating if I should give up my beloved chocolate.


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I only experience PCVs but still an electrical thing. Coffee does not really bring them on but chocolate does.

[bheight1]

Just following the thread here and haven't previewed book but there was mention of EKG and supplements. I'm not a doctor and don't have AF, but I would ask if those that have AF have had an echocardiogram, which I assume was done during testing. The reason I ask is because for awhile I had not some much a "flutter" but a "floppy-floppy" sensation, similar to flutter but more of an extra beat feeling. This was detected to be early stages of valve disease, basically a murmur. Didn't have as a child but detected later in life (everyone's heart will eventually "leak" with age), which progressed into severe regurgitation, which I have had surgery for. That's another thread. Point is, make sure your doctor or 2nd opinion is getting to the root cause of your AF--is it excersize induced, alcohol, coffee/chocolate? Do your research and seek out experts, notably doctors that are fitness and/or sports/athletes that have a solid opinion. I'm in the supplement industry and use a supplement but would advise caution with them as manufacturers/quality/dosage vary and always keep your doctor informed.

[classtimesailer]

In a Nuclear ST, are they monitoring blood oxygen levels? Is your determination of high intensity or having reached LT based on your previous experience in training or does their equipment determine it? It would be neat if my cardiologist could test me to find my LT and maybe VO2 max during my next visit. My insurance won't cover a trip to a fitness lab.

I think any internist can order a stress test for you if you are concerned, and that can be done almost anywhere. In my case, the stress test results must have been kind of shocking because ~13 minutes into that test at high intensity...

So, everybody is all very puzzled by this and it was then they then ordered the nuclear stress (treadmill) test which showed the same ST Depression effect when I went anaerobic.

GL in your case. I think you can easily follow this up with either your internist or cardiologist.

[OtayBW]

In a Nuclear ST, are they monitoring blood oxygen levels? Is your determination of high intensity or having reached LT based on your previous experience in training or does their equipment determine it? It would be neat if my cardiologist could test me to find my LT and maybe VO2 max during my next visit. My insurance won't cover a trip to a fitness lab.In the 2 'regular' stress tests and the nuclear stress test that I had, the measure of 'intensity' was simply % of max heart rate (no doubt determined as 220-age). I tried to inform these guys at each test that my 'redline' was actually higher than that, but in all cases, I tested to ~exhaustion, and I was confident that I was going anaerobic. So, I'm just using LT as a generic descriptor here.

This was standard cardio evaluation, not exercise physiology assessment, so the oxygen did not come into play, although that would have been interesting....

[bheight1]

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/01/are-elite-cyclists-at-greater-risk-of-heart-problems/

[oldpotatoe]

https://cyclingtips.com/2017/01/are-elite-cyclists-at-greater-risk-of-heart-problems

ha..RTFPosts...dupe.

[Alan]

I read the book looking for guidance on how much is "too much". Not enough research yet to answer this question but there is a good section in the book about addiction to exercise. Once again the answer is that each person's limit is different based on physiology,intensity, stress, and daily life.

I ride 5000 mi a year mostly at a reasonable pace and I think for me this is not over the top. Just the same I am going to pursue some low priced heart testing to confirm.

Alan

[bart998]

I was found to have "arrhythmia" while preparing for knee surgery four years ago when I was 52. Follow-up with two different heart specialists (my knee injury occurred at work and was under workman's comp) lead to two diagnoses of "athlete's heart", being told it was benign and being placed on an aspirin regimen. I just ordered the book, hopefully I can avoid some of the problems others here have mentioned.

[soulspinner]

I was found to have "arrhythmia" while preparing for knee surgery four years ago when I was 52. Follow-up with two different heart specialists (my knee injury occurred at work and was under workman's comp) lead to two diagnoses of "athlete's heart", being told it was benign and being placed on an aspirin regimen. I just ordered the book, hopefully I can avoid some of the problems others here have mentioned.

how does the aspirin help an arrythmia?

[rnhood]

It doesn't help with arrhythmia. But, it has mild antiplatelet properties which act to reduce stroke risk, which is of concern if one has chronic afib.

[soulspinner]

It doesn't help with arrhythmia. But, it has mild antiplatelet properties which act to reduce stroke risk, which is of concern if one has chronic afib.

Thanks

[Clean39T]

Just started reading the book after listening to the interview on Velo News Podcast (or it might have been Paceline or Time Trial podcasts..).

I'm only 37 and haven't had any issues, but I have a wife who has dealt with PSVT since she was 13 and had an ablation done at 32 - 5 years later she still has issues and can't seem to ignore her PAC/PVC sensations enough to do anything endurance related (even hiking scares her) - and seeing her experience all that has made me not want to end up in the same place.

I'm 6'3" and 170lbs - former heavy partier turned tee-totaler - former fatty who can bounce up 50lbs in a year if not training and eating properly - and right now I think I fall into that category of training like I'm going to race the TdF, when really all I do is hurl myself at Strava and challenge all my past PBs. I'm sure there are many like this here.

I just finished TrainerRoad SSB HV I/II and am figuring out where to go next. Getting into this book and thinking about my "goals" more has me seriously considering backing off of anything "interval" based, quitting Strava, selling my PM, and just getting back to "soul" riding. I love bicycles for the design, aesthetic, history, and freedom - but I get sucked into the competition and personal striving way too easy. I don't need those last two to be healthy and stay fit and stay involved with the first four.

Sorry for the rambling post - just wondering if others are finding themselves in a similar place with similar dilemmas.:confused:

[Clydesdale]

Very interesting stuff. Sad to think that it is quite possible many people with Afib/Heart stuff essentially did it to ourselves. Really interesting chapters on the possibilities of what intense exercise and resulting conditioning do to the heart. My personal case was almost exactly nailed in the book.

Interesting takeaways...
1) Detraining = less training and less intensity can somewhat reverse the effects in many cases
2) Aspirin has shown to be of very little value to stroke prevention but might have some heart benefits - maybe
3) Caffeine is likely not a trigger in most cases but alcohol definitely can be
4) Beta blockers are not assumed to be helpful in most cases
5) Afib is very unlikely in a healthy non-damaged heart.

Good book and helpful as an Afib person. Not sure it would have changed how I did things, but it might have and it helps understand the condition better.

[fignon's barber]

Just finished reading The Haywire Heart. I would highly recommend anyone who trains regularly to read this book.

[ptourkin]

Yes. Also read about what Jeremy Powers has been going through this year.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0368/7037/products/KM_hands_v2_2048x2048_fd4f987c-1ef0-4dbd-888b-830c7770c293_large.jpg?v=1511914013
I've been having some issues recently and my cardiologist recommended this: https://www.alivecor.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiApJnRBRBlEiwAPTgmxDxUmKrzJC4LOJqPD55 39ciY_tgj8sp90LmtCtBQalQMLKs4bqAnehoCWKUQAvD_BwE

It fits in my ride wallet and in combination with my phone, allows me to take a 30 second reading when weird things happen on the bike. It saves the recording for you to email to your doc.

$99 on Amazon, I believe.

[fignon's barber]

That's a good little device if you have issues.

[Clean39T]

Yes. Also read about what Jeremy Powers has been going through this year.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0368/7037/products/KM_hands_v2_2048x2048_fd4f987c-1ef0-4dbd-888b-830c7770c293_large.jpg?v=1511914013
I've been having some issues recently and my cardiologist recommended this: https://www.alivecor.com/?gclid=CjwKCAiApJnRBRBlEiwAPTgmxDxUmKrzJC4LOJqPD55 39ciY_tgj8sp90LmtCtBQalQMLKs4bqAnehoCWKUQAvD_BwE

It fits in my ride wallet and in combination with my phone, allows me to take a 30 second reading when weird things happen on the bike. It saves the recording for you to email to your doc.

$99 on Amazon, I believe.


Can you share some links on Powers?

Also, a big thank you for the device link - that could be a game changer for my wife (see my post above).

[ptourkin]

Here's one with Lennard: http://www.velonews.com/2017/11/news/qa-jeremy-powers-coping-heart-issues-sidetracked-cx-season_452391

I believe CyclingTips also had a long one.

He won last weekend, though.

[pncguy]

It is interesting to see this thread resurface. I hadn't seen it before, but that was before I did the Olde Stage/Lee Hill ride in Boulder and four hours later found myself in AFlutter. Went to see Zinn's doc, Oza, and am now in a "wait and see" mode. The ER put me on Eliquis and diltiazem, a calcium channel blocker, but I'm off them now. I actually tolerated it pretty well, but it isn't necessary if you're not having the arrhythmia. I'm now only on baby aspirin, not because of the AFlutter, but because of a PFO that we found by accident when I was having palpitations due to PVCs.

I did end up buying the Kardia, and I think it is a useful device. It isn't a true ECG, but it will certainly show you if you're in AFib or AFlutter. But it won't diagnose other ailments that really need a proper 12-lead ECG. I am VERY irritated with AliveCor, though: the device is $99 on Amazon, which I am happy paying, but if you want to actually use their app for longer than the free month, you have to pony up a monthly subscription fee. You can email to yourself each ecg you take, but this strikes me as a pure cash cow the company has going. I don't like it one bit.

I recommend Haywire Heart to anyone who rides - especially if you've felt funny.

[Rpoole8537]

Just started reading the book after listening to the interview on Velo News Podcast (or it might have been Paceline or Time Trial podcasts..).

I'm only 37 and haven't had any issues, but I have a wife who has dealt with PSVT since she was 13 and had an ablation done at 32 - 5 years later she still has issues and can't seem to ignore her PAC/PVC sensations enough to do anything endurance related (even hiking scares her) - and seeing her experience all that has made me not want to end up in the same place.

I'm 6'3" and 170lbs - former heavy partier turned tee-totaler - former fatty who can bounce up 50lbs in a year if not training and eating properly - and right now I think I fall into that category of training like I'm going to race the TdF, when really all I do is hurl myself at Strava and challenge all my past PBs. I'm sure there are many like this here.

I just finished TrainerRoad SSB HV I/II and am figuring out where to go next. Getting into this book and thinking about my "goals" more has me seriously considering backing off of anything "interval" based, quitting Strava, selling my PM, and just getting back to "soul" riding. I love bicycles for the design, aesthetic, history, and freedom - but I get sucked into the competition and personal striving way too easy. I don't need those last two to be healthy and stay fit and stay involved with the first four.

Sorry for the rambling post - just wondering if others are finding themselves in a similar place with similar dilemmas.:confused:

Clean 39 - Just saw where your wife has PVC's. Now, it seems to have been a medical issue from many years ago. I still get PVC's when I ride, but a small amount of magnesium keeps them in check. I have a friend who also uses this treatment and it works for him. Something to think about.