View Full Version : local near disaster cycling video
eddief
01-01-2017, 09:47 AM
Posted on our local club list serve. Rider suggested no plates, but another poster said you can see license on top right of trailer. He was considering going to car dealer to see if they would ID the driver. I think there will be a way to find him.
I am "struck" by the clarity of the videos and the terrible vibes among us:
Video of the incident (note how close his fender comes to Sue):
http://n1al.net/music/incident.MP4
Video of the confrontation (warning, 91 Mbytes and contains profanity):
http://n1al.net/music/altercation.mp4
Tony T
01-01-2017, 10:23 AM
Posted on our local club list serve. Rider suggested no plates, but another poster said you can see license on top right of trailer. He was considering going to car dealer to see if they would ID the driver. I think there will be a way to find him.
That was too close.
Lic plate is clear on the trailer.
Not sure why someone wants to go to the dealer to ID the driver.
Print out the plate, and a few frames of the pass and go to the local police
(Nothing may be done, but it's probably all that the cyclists can do)
merlinmurph
01-01-2017, 10:35 AM
"Get the f*** off the road"
Really?
The sad part is we hear that a lot
eddief
01-01-2017, 10:39 AM
did not think there was a license plate visible, but since the truck was new and had the name of the dealer on the paper plates, thought that might be a way to find the driver. Another poster noted the fairly clear view of the trailer plate.
That was too close.
Lic plate is clear on the trailer.
Not sure why someone wants to go to the dealer to ID the driver.
Print out the plate, and a few frames of the pass and go to the local police
(Nothing may be done, but it's probably all that the cyclists can do)
Plum Hill
01-01-2017, 10:50 AM
Go to the police, not the dealer. Let the police do their job.
I'm amazed the driver had the nerve to stop and get out; then again, he thinks the cyclists did wrong and believes he owns the road.
I wonder if the load he had was within the ratings of the truck and if the trailer brakes were functioning.
loimpact
01-01-2017, 11:52 AM
Ya know what's funny (not funny, but curious) is that I've experienced this both in my running career & cycling.
The people who think they own the road with their vehicle get my "bad guy" response. (I really thought I was going to kill a guy with my bare hands once).
BUT......I have had incidents where the driver has come back around (or waited as seen above) and apologized to me for whatever reason (no control, didn't see me, whatever) and that will net a VERY GRATEFUL and MUTUALLY friendly response from me almost every time.
It takes a HUGE person to do that and I will identify and commend someone for doing such a thing.
kevinvc
01-01-2017, 12:46 PM
Why did the ahole pull his truck over and stop to wait for you? If he was looking for a physical confrontation he had the opportunity. Maybe he didn't realize initially that the rider he almost hit was a woman and seeing her made him hesitant.
I have no idea what goes through someone's mind to make them do something like that. There was clearly an oncoming vehicle. He didn't need to come to a complete stop to let it clear before making his pass. In fact, just easing off the gas would have probably been sufficient. And the usual "go ride on the bike path" or "pull to the side" when there clearly isn't any room are unsurprising.
I don't know where you live or what the local law enforcement are like, but I think the first video showing the incident itself should definitely be taken to them. I would go to the appropriate precinct / Sheriff's Office with the video on a CD and talk to the desk clerk. Write down the plate number from the trailer so they can't use the excuse of not being able to read it (LBJ7979 maybe, I'm looking at a small screen). Write down as complete a description as you can of the vehicle, e.g. white Ram 3500 with extended cab and tinted back window. Give them a printout from the second video that clearly shows the guy who got out of the truck. Be polite but firm about wanting to deliver it to an officer. Get the name of everyone you talk to and follow up to find out what actions they take. Keep a log of every interaction you have with law enforcement.
Chances are, nothing will happen. At most, if they can positively identify the driver they may talk to him and warn him to be more careful. Regardless, it's important to get this on record. The guy didn't seem at all recalcitrant and I would assume that's his typical driving style. If there is ever another incident that can be connected to him, everything you provide could prove helpful.
Good luck and stay safe. I admire your restraint to limit your actions to just language and riding away rather than extending the confrontation.
thwart
01-01-2017, 01:02 PM
Yikes.
That is nuts.
weisan
01-01-2017, 01:15 PM
.
Peter P.
01-01-2017, 01:18 PM
Take the license plate to the police and ask to press charges they violated the 3 Foot Rule. Looks like a CA plate and I wouldn't be surprised they have such a law.
kevinvc
01-01-2017, 01:47 PM
Does CA have an avenue for a citizen to issue a traffic citation? We do here in OR and, in fact, my wife was successful in issuing one to another driver who crossed the center line, resulting in a collision, a few years ago.
ultraman6970
01-01-2017, 02:12 PM
Wow that was an insane close call. Clearly the driver was going way too fast, IME driving school buses, you can hit a cyclist and do not even know it. The trailer should have known this.
That was really way too close.
Jgrooms
01-01-2017, 08:39 PM
Why carry a camera around if you are not going to use it in a case such as this? He passed on a dbl yellow. He should receive a citation for that just to start. No question.
And don't you just love the one's who are in a big hurry, but they then stop for a confrontation.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
R3awak3n
01-01-2017, 08:51 PM
just today someone buzzed by me on a 2 lane road, no reason to do so but what an asshole.
tuscanyswe
01-01-2017, 08:53 PM
what the hell is wrong with ppl? Who almost hits someone on a bike with a trailer and then tells them to go f*** themselves??? Idiots!
Sounds like a job for the Fightin' Bobas ;-)
https://www.strava.com/clubs/259
O.K. That's a bit of an inside joke. People local to S.R. and .. well, and identify with this description, will get it:
"The Fightin’ Bobas are a bunch of old, over the hill dudes, who occasionally, when not drinking beer, like to go out and race their bikes."
The name stems from a similar incident a decade ago, near 18988 Sonoma Hwy, Sonoma, CA 95476 (McDonalds!).
Honestly, Sonoma County is generally bike-friendly, save the pavement. And then there are nut-jobs...
Glad everyone is OK!
Clancy
01-02-2017, 08:49 AM
I had a similar confrontation two years ago and my attitude has changed since.
Same thing, pick-up buzzed me - no trailer. But the driver pulled into his driveway shorty after the close call. I decided to pull into his driveway too and confront ( not smart and I don't suggest doing this! )
We both yelled at each other but for some reason we both quieted down and started talking.
What I learned. The driver buzzed me because he was sick and tired of cyclists riding 2-3 abreast, taking up the road, running stop signs, flipping drivers off. And he's right, road cyclists can be assholes.
I was pissed at all the close calls I've had.
We both were both pissed because of the built-up frustrations from previous encounters. We both were already primed.
Since then I no longer throw up a hand in disgust, flip drivers off, etc., when I experience a close call. As hard as it is, I "bite my tongue".
What I do now is when I first hear a car approaching I give a wave of acknowledgment before they pass. Doing that I've learned many drivers give me more space and often wave back.
When a driver does pass giving me space - I give a friendly wave.
That pick-up guy that buzzed me was mad at the other incidents he had.
Drivers take out on us what the cyclists before us did.
I'm wondering if the rider with the camera flipped the guy off or gestured to him - understandable if he did, heat of the moment.
Been far better to have given a polite wave as they rode past the stopped trailer, then go to the police and make a report.
I've seen enough idiots on their bikes riding in such a way that it pisses me off. There are also true assholes driving cars that think cyclists belong on sidewalks. But for the most part I believe there's just a lot of cyclists and drivers that are really frustrated with each other.
So I've decided I'm going to do my best not to add to the anger. The driver I flip off will only take it out on the next cyclist they see. But perhaps if I wave in a friendly way, they'll give the next guy a break.
YesNdeed
01-02-2017, 08:58 AM
I almost jumped off my chair watching that pass! Get the footage to police and let them handle it (hopefully they will actually handle it). Glad it didn't end in disaster.
The only time a truck came that close to me, I was able to catch up to him to let him know he was in violation of the law. He acted dumbfounded as he was ripped a new one, and I let him know I'd be calling Foods of New Mexico, the company for which he drives, to let the boss know I'm lucky to be alive. They own and operate the restaurants Little Anitas, Los Quates and Fiestas, and they all serve terrible food. I won't be going to any of them.
oldpotatoe
01-02-2017, 09:06 AM
I almost jumped off my chair watching that pass! Get the footage to police and let them handle it (hopefully they will actually handle it). Glad it didn't end in disaster.
The only time a truck came that close to me, I was able to catch up to him to let him know he was in violation of the law. He acted dumbfounded as he was ripped a new one, and I let him know I'd be calling Foods of New Mexico, the company for which he drives, to let the boss know I'm lucky to be alive. They own and operate the restaurants Little Anitas, Los Quates and Fiestas, and they all serve terrible food. I won't be going to any of them.
NOT defending the truck guy, NOT..but the truck is passing cyclists at the same time there is a car on in the other lane going to opposite direction, which moved over cuz the truck did too(didn't cross the double yellow, AFAICT).
What law did the truck guy break(assuming he wasn't speeding)? Looked like a corner, VERY close call but didn't look like an intentional dust off to me..
Bad circumstances, very scary but in spite of the FUs at the end..not sure what law was broken.
What could the truck guy have done? Slow down I guess.
What could the bike riders have done? I would have moved over to the right further. OR not ridden there at all..but don't know the circumstances.
Tony T
01-02-2017, 09:14 AM
Most states have a law to Pass with care only when it is safe and legal to do so. (It is legal to cross a double yellow to pass a slow moving vehicle). Many of these laws are for passing agricultural vehicles (tractors, etc), but also apply to a bicycle.
So IMO, the driver should have slowed and waited for an opportunity to pass safely.
eddief
01-02-2017, 09:18 AM
A driver of a motor vehicle shall not overtake or pass a bicycle proceeding in the same direction on a highway at a distance of less than three feet between any part of the motor vehicle and any part of the bicycle or its operator. The driver of a motor vehicle overtaking and passing a bicycle shall do so at a safe distance that does not interfere with the safe operation of the overtaken bicycle, having due regard for the size and speed of the motor vehicle and the bicycle, traffic conditions, weather, visibility, and the surface and width of the highway.
William
01-02-2017, 09:21 AM
Just piggy backing on spuds post:
A blind corner at the top of a rise...
Truck with a large trailer traveling at a good rate of speed...
He may have been watching the riders and initially missed the car coming over the rise. Admittedly it would have been wise for him to slow down, but he may have thought he could pass at speed and then noticed the oncoming car. You can't easily jack up the brakes pulling a large trailer like that. From that point it might have been a thread the needle move to the truck driver and not an intentional buzzing?
I'm not trying to make excuses for the truck driver, just trying to make sense of the situation.
William
eddief
01-02-2017, 09:28 AM
does not seem as if he is prone to the best judgement or driving in a way that may be safest for him, the riders, and the horses...if horses were in the trailer. That is a fairly wide open stretch of road and I'd bet, if the driver was paying attention, he could see the cyclists out in front way before he got there. Just had to slow down to match the conditions and all would have been fine.
Making excuses for an obvious ahole makes no sense to me here. It appears he did break the law. Not everything makes sense these days.
Seramount
01-02-2017, 09:35 AM
having recently been hit from behind, watching that vid almost made me physically ill.
guess expecting the driver to slow a little when passing a vulnerable road user is completely unreasonable...
William
01-02-2017, 09:36 AM
I'm not making excuses, I already said he should have slowed down. All I'm pointing to is that it may not have been an intentional buzzing..more Like an "oh s**t!" due to bad judgement. That said, they should still report it.
William
YesNdeed
01-02-2017, 09:44 AM
NOT defending the truck guy, NOT..but the truck is passing cyclists at the same time there is a car on in the other lane going to opposite direction, which moved over cuz the truck did too(didn't cross the double yellow, AFAICT).
What law did the truck guy break(assuming he wasn't speeding)? Looked like a corner, VERY close call but didn't look like an intentional dust off to me..
Bad circumstances, very scary but in spite of the FUs at the end..not sure what law was broken.
What could the truck guy have done? Slow down I guess.
What could the bike riders have done? I would have moved over to the right further. OR not ridden there at all..but don't know the circumstances.
Both truck drivers of concern were in violation of the 3 foot rule. In most cases I have heard of, law enforcement can do nothing more than issue a warning, but it's better than nothing, and get's the word out that cyclists have a right to the road when it's necessary to use it. And well, there's no He Scared the $*!# out of Me law. In this instance, the driver should have slowed down and waited until safe to pass. At the time of the passing, maybe she could have been a few more inches over, but right of the white line looks awfully slim to me, and doesn't qualify as a bike lane. I don't think she was too far to the left.
In my case, the driver and I were sharing two full Southbound lanes (two Northbound lanes were separated by a large median with curbs and dirt in between) and both of our lanes were free of any traffic whatsoever, near or far, and I was about 1.5 feet from the curb, and he still came within a foot of my left hand on the hoods. In my case, I could not have been further to the right without risking a pedal scrape to the curb, or getting onto the sidewalk. Not getting defensive, I just want to make a clearer picture, and point out where I think it was wrong.
William
01-02-2017, 09:59 AM
Looking at the second video I get the sense the guy knew he effed up. Why else would he stop? If he intentionally buzzed them he would have kept going. On initial contact the guy is standing there with his hands in his pockets and his first response was he "couldn't stop because of the weight on there" (the trailer). That's not the stance or reaction of someone looking for a fight. Once a few FU's (understandably so) are thrown his way his defenses go up and it's an FU fest. I've had enough interactions/altercations with people to know that many will initially throw up a defense when scared or nervous and confronted with anger even when they know they are in the wrong.
Again, I'm not making excuses for the driver's poor judgement, he should be cited if he can be. Just pointing out that this appears to be a screw up that went wrong at many points.
William
Tony T
01-02-2017, 10:09 AM
William, that was similar to my thoughts also.
I was also thinking he pulled over to assure himself that he didn't hurt someone.
If I were the cyclist, I would also have opened with the: FU, you almost killed her.
If I were the driver, even if I knew I f-uped, when met with a "FU" I would have also gone on the defensive.
…but the confrontation was not the issue.
Whatever the reason, the driver was in the wrong (would a "I'm sorry I almost killed you" have helped any?)
William
01-02-2017, 10:12 AM
William, that was similar to my thoughts also.
I was also thinking he pulled over to assure himself that he didn't hurt someone.
If I were the cyclist, I would also have opened with the: FU, you almost killed her.
If I were the driver, even if I knew I f-uped, when met with a "FU" I would have also gone on the defensive.
…but the confrontation was not the issue.
Whatever the reason, the driver was in the wrong (would a "I'm sorry I almost killed you" have helped any?)
I'm just looking at intentional vs. bad judgement. From the video I get the sense that he screwed up but that it wasn't an intentional buzzing. I'm just glad that everyone came out of it unhurt.
William
Tony T
01-02-2017, 10:15 AM
Agreed, never though it was intentional.
Bad judgement/impatient driver (he said "I was honking for you to move over" — he should have waited for a better opportunity to pass)
William
01-02-2017, 10:17 AM
Agreed, never though it was intentional.
Bad judgement/impatient driver (he said "I was honking for you to move over" — he should have waited for a better opportunity to pass)
I agree.
William
spoonrobot
01-02-2017, 10:20 AM
What I learned. The driver buzzed me because he was sick and tired of cyclists riding 2-3 abreast, taking up the road, running stop signs, flipping drivers off. And he's right, road cyclists can be assholes.
I'm glad you learned something.
Too bad the dude you met hates you for existing and decided to punish you for the minor transgressions of others. To act in such a way where the possible outcome is life-long disability or death is sociopathic, his admission should have come with a revocation of his license.
Similar with the driver in this video, his first statement is "I can't ****ing stop" which is indicative of at least one motor vehicle violation. Operating a vehicle that is not safe on the roadway in an aggressive manner is against the law. Tow ratings exist for a reason, if this user cannot be bothered to follow them he does not need to be operating that vehicle on a public right of way.
However, an obvious clue that this is a punishment or convenience pass is the honking. He had more than enough time to slow to the cyclist's speed but perceived the inconvenience to be a greater issue than risking the lives of two other road users. So it's a honk and a "hope you don't get paralyzed or killed by my trailer" as he speeds by.
"I honked and you guys got to get over."
It's disheartening that we accept behavior and attitudes from motorists that would not be accepted in any other part of society.
Just how many cyclists get killed because a punishment pass went awry and they got run over because the driver had a hard time judging speed and distance?
"I didn't see them"
"They swerved right into the lane"
And other such lies that continue to be told and accepted without question.
I put the videos on youtube to make viewing easier. Let me know if you want them removed. Glad that the two riders made it out alive.
eddief
01-02-2017, 10:33 AM
not having gotten permission from those involved in the incident. I'd appreciate if you'd not expose them to the general public on youtube.
I'm glad you learned something.
Too bad the dude you met hates you for existing and decided to punish you for the minor transgressions of others. To act in such a way where the possible outcome is life-long disability or death is sociopathic, his admission should have come with a revocation of his license.
Similar with the driver in this video, his first statement is "I can't ****ing stop" which is indicative of at least one motor vehicle violation. Operating a vehicle that is not safe on the roadway in an aggressive manner is against the law. Tow ratings exist for a reason, if this user cannot be bothered to follow them he does not need to be operating that vehicle on a public right of way.
However, an obvious clue that this is a punishment or convenience pass is the honking. He had more than enough time to slow to the cyclist's speed but perceived the inconvenience to be a greater issue than risking the lives of two other road users. So it's a honk and a "hope you don't get paralyzed or killed by my trailer" as he speeds by.
"I honked and you guys got to get over."
It's disheartening that we accept behavior and attitudes from motorists that would not be accepted in any other part of society.
Just how many cyclists get killed because a punishment pass went awry and they got run over because the driver had a hard time judging speed and distance?
"I didn't see them"
"They swerved right into the lane"
And other such lies that continue to be told and accepted without question.
I put the videos on youtube to make viewing easier. Let me know if you want them removed. Glad that the two riders made it out alive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx1Nlwva_7I
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSQ0FGOLcos
smead
01-02-2017, 11:37 AM
I generally do not wade in to these types of discussions, but I cannot fathom how anyone could defend the drivers actions saying he may not have seen the oncoming car until it was too late. Bottom line is that when you are hauling a load in a RAM 3500 or a big rig, you are 100% responsible for driving at a speed that is safe enough to ensure you do not run over any slower moving vehicle in any condition. If the road is curvy like this one offering less visibility, then simply slow the f$$k down! And if you cannot pass safely, WAIT until it safe to do so. Pretty black and white.
Tony T
01-02-2017, 11:40 AM
Who here defended the driver?
ultraman6970
01-02-2017, 12:16 PM
Not to defend the driver but the Einstein was going way too fast and no matter how good the brakes are there is no way to stop that vehicle in a dime and he is right in that statement, but why he was going that fast tho. One thing do not justify the other one.
Bad bicycle riders? heck and by the ton too.
daker13
01-02-2017, 12:46 PM
It is truly amazing to how many drivers will sooner run a cyclist off the road than feather their brakes... it's like, oh, I can't possibly slow down, so I guess it's okay to maim this other person on the road.
I wonder how the driver feels who mowed down that poor racer in New Brunswick...
verticaldoug
01-02-2017, 12:51 PM
Not to defend the driver but the Einstein was going way too fast and no matter how good the brakes are there is no way to stop that vehicle in a dime and he is right in that statement, but why he was going that fast tho. One thing do not justify the other one.
Bad bicycle riders? heck and by the ton too.
I'm not so sure it was an intentional buzz as much as falling in when he was passing. I'd had close encounters with cars that just drift to the side after passing.
As for not being able to stop quickly, the driver was probably more focused on the horses he was hauling. Clearly, he is in the wrong, but he is not empathizing with you.
In 20/20 Hindsight, when the first thing out of your mouth is 'what the f*ck you think oyou doing' , it's can easily escalate into just the verbal FU confrontation.
If you had shown some empathy of him not wanting to jostle his horses, he might then empathize with you on howabsolutely terrifying a close call with a motorized vehicle is. Otherwise, he just has no idea. In the long run, we will all be better off.
My 2 cents and I am sure many will disagree.
joosttx
01-02-2017, 12:55 PM
The Driver had no where to go. Its either smash into a head on car or hit a cyclist or do what he did. What he did was saved 4 lives assuming there was only one person in the other car and not including the horses. I think the driver handled the situation the best way he could (the driving part) . Those cyclists should be happy the guy handled it so well.
Getting into that situation is another story. He might of avoided the close call but its hard to tell from the video. All I can see from the video is he was moving fast probably too fast the slow down with a trailer full of horses but probabky within the speed limit (i cannot tell) and threadng the needle between car and two cyclists.
merlinmurph
01-02-2017, 01:51 PM
What he did was saved 4 lives assuming there was only one person in the other car and not including the horses. I think the driver handled the situation the best way he could (the driving part) . Those cyclists should be happy the guy handled it so well.
Well, that's certainly a different perspective on things. He actually saved lives.
kevinvc
01-02-2017, 02:02 PM
The Driver had no where to go. Its either smash into a head on car or hit a cyclist or do what he did. What he did was saved 4 lives assuming there was only one person in the other car and not including the horses. I think the driver handled the situation the best way he could (the driving part) . Those cyclists should be happy the guy handled it so well.
Getting into that situation is another story. He might of avoided the close call but its hard to tell from the video. All I can see from the video is he was moving fast probably too fast the slow down with a trailer full of horses but probabky within the speed limit (i cannot tell) and threadng the needle between car and two cyclists.
Respectfully, I'm surprised and disappointed to see this post. I understand where you're coming from in saying it took some steering skill to thread between the cyclists and the oncoming car. But I think it's absolutely wrong to say that he saved any lives or handled the situation well in any respect.
He was in the wrong and responsible for creating that situation that endangered those lives, full stop. He clearly saw the riders. At that point, if he was going to attempt a pass, it was entirely his responsibility to ensure that he did so safely. He was going too fast for the conditions. He should have seen the oncoming vehicle. He should have waited until he could ensure enough space to move over and give the riders enough room. He screwed up in a myriad of ways and the only reason he avoided killing anyone was dumb luck and good presence of mind by the lead cyclist to hold her line.
This encounter indicates that he lacks the judgement to safely operate a vehicle. I hope the OP is able to get law enforcement to respond and issue an appropriate citation. I hope the encounter scared the crap out of the driver and encourages him to behave more responsibly in the future.
Dead Man
01-02-2017, 02:06 PM
Before I became a cyclist, I would have had the same opinion - what the fap was the driver supposed to do? Cyclist makes the lane uninhabitable, not enough room for two vehicles and a cyclist, guess the problem was with the cyclist being there to begin with.
Now that I am a cyclist, I know that the trailer driver is 100% to blame for this for not SLOWING DOWN APPROACHING A SLOW MOVING VEHICLE. It's not that the motorvehicle has "no place to go," "no other option," or any other variation- it's that the driver chose a reckless gamble to get around the cyclist fast and not "get stuck behind" instead of the only correct way to handle it - slow down, even to pace speed of necessary, and wait for a safe place to pass.
That's it, man. There's nothing else to this and no excuses.
Cyclists can help assist drivers in making this decision by not riding to far to the right when it's not safe to pass. If it's not safe to pass, take responsibility for your own safety and take the ****ing lane. I understand nobody wants to feel like an activist or be misunderstood as an entitled cyclist, but surviving the ride is more important than offending one driver.
I'm just looking at intentional vs. bad judgement. From the video I get the sense that he screwed up but that it wasn't an intentional buzzing. I'm just glad that everyone came out of it unhurt.
William
FWIW, had this driver killed someone, that's the difference between murder and manslaughter. Both should net the guilty party a hefty legal bill and some prison time.
sitzmark
01-02-2017, 02:11 PM
The Driver had no where to go. Its either smash into a head on car or hit a cyclist or do what he did. What he did was saved 4 lives assuming there was only one person in the other car and not including the horses. I think the driver handled the situation the best way he could (the driving part) . Those cyclists should be happy the guy handled it so well.
Getting into that situation is another story. He might of avoided the close call but its hard to tell from the video. All I can see from the video is he was moving fast probably too fast the slow down with a trailer full of horses but probabky within the speed limit (i cannot tell) and threadng the needle between car and two cyclists.
Just another reason to take the entire lane. If it had been a full sized vehicle ahead of him, he would likely have approached the situation in a different way ... most likely slowing because he didn't have enough room to complete a full lane pass. Bicyclist, tractor, horse drawn carriage, vehicle -doesn't matter, the responsibility to pass safely is the same for each. Each is entitled to use the road equally.
Take to law enforcement. If they do nothing ... don't encourage vigilantism, but if this PoS quietly disappears from planet earth, well... it would be a win for self-defense and safety for all cyclists. He will tag someone some day.
merlincustom1
01-02-2017, 02:13 PM
I'm with William and Ancient Nightshade on this one. Just seemed like seriously bad timing as it would have been a non-issue but for the oncoming car. Plus the recording cyclist started off the aggression and profanity and the driver got defensive and returned it in kind.
oldpotatoe
01-02-2017, 02:17 PM
Just another reason to take the entire lane. If it had been a full sized vehicle ahead of him, he would likely have approached the situation in a different way ... most likely slowing because he didn't have enough room to complete a full lane pass. Bicyclist, tractor, horse drawn carriage, vehicle -doesn't matter, the responsibility to pass safely is the same for each. Each is entitled to use the road equally.
Take to law enforcement. If they do nothing ... don't encourage vigilantism, but if this PoS quietly disappears from planet earth, well... it would be a win for self-defense and safety for all cyclists. He will tag someone some day.
If the cyclist, seeing it was unsafe to pass him, 'took the entire lane' the truck would have hit him.
Advocate killing/murdering the truck driver, gee that's brilliant...and some cyclists wonder why people in cars hate us.
joosttx
01-02-2017, 02:27 PM
Respectfully, I'm surprised and disappointed to see this post. I understand where you're coming from in saying it took some steering skill to thread between the cyclists and the oncoming car. But I think it's absolutely wrong to say that he saved any lives or handled the situation well in any respect.
He was in the wrong and responsible for creating that situation that endangered those lives, full stop. He clearly saw the riders. At that point, if he was going to attempt a pass, it was entirely his responsibility to ensure that he did so safely. He was going too fast for the conditions. He should have seen the oncoming vehicle. He should have waited until he could ensure enough space to move over and give the riders enough room. He screwed up in a myriad of ways and the only reason he avoided killing anyone was dumb luck and good presence of mind by the lead cyclist to hold her line.
This encounter indicates that he lacks the judgement to safely operate a vehicle. I hope the OP is able to get law enforcement to respond and issue an appropriate citation. I hope the encounter scared the crap out of the driver and encourages him to behave more responsibly in the future.
I am not sure he saw the cyclist or he didn't see the on coming car before it was too late to brake. I don't think everyone who has a close call with a cyclist is gunning for one. Took some skill not to make a situation worse. Took some bad judgement to get into the situation.
Tony T
01-02-2017, 03:22 PM
I am not sure he saw the cyclist or he didn't see the on coming car before it was too late to brake. I don't think everyone who has a close call with a cyclist is gunning for one. Took some skill not to make a situation worse. Took some bad judgement to get into the situation.
He saw the cyclist ("I was honking at you…").
He should have seen the oncoming car.
Possible he misjudged the speed of the car, or how quickly he could accelerate.
Driver was at fault for not waiting until it was safe to pass.
tctyres
01-02-2017, 03:44 PM
Cyclists can help assist drivers in making this decision by not riding to far to the right when it's not safe to pass. If it's not safe to pass, take responsibility for your own safety and take the ****ing lane. I understand nobody wants to feel like an activist or be misunderstood as an entitled cyclist, but surviving the ride is more important than offending one driver.
The cyclist is required by law to ride as far to the right as practicable (which is a legal term: Uniform Vehicle Code, 11-1205, pp. 168), and that's governed by road conditions, traffic, and whether the cyclist is turning left.
Blocking a speeding truck is not "practicable" in any instance in my mind.
That said, I think you are suggesting that there are actions cyclists can take to make the road safer. For example, I use my arms all the time to either wave people on or have them hold their position with a lowered flat palm. 9 times out of 10 they do what I want because I'm the lead vehicle, ride higher than the average car, so have a better vantage point.
Dead Man
01-02-2017, 03:57 PM
The cyclist is required by law to ride as far to the right as practicable (which is a legal term: Uniform Vehicle Code, 11-1205, pp. 168), and that's governed by road conditions, traffic, and whether the cyclist is turning left.
Blocking a speeding truck is not "practicable" in any instance in my mind.
That said, I think you are suggesting that there are actions cyclists can take to make the road safer. For example, I use my arms all the time to either wave people on or have them hold their position with a lowered flat palm. 9 times out of 10 they do what I want because I'm the lead vehicle, ride higher than the average car, so have a better vantage point.
No exception for rider safety in NY?
In Oregon, you're required to ride as far right as practicable, with several exceptions - one being if there's not enough room for car and bike to ride side by side, including our vulnerable road use gap of 3'.
So there are actually very few roads in Oregon where the cyclist can't legally take the lane, and the DMV-issued cyclist handbook actually tells cyclists to do so any time they need to. While complying with the laws, obviously.
I'd expect it to be similar in most states
Repack Rider
01-02-2017, 04:30 PM
That's why I'm a mountain biker.
Road riding for fun seems like an oxymoron.
tctyres
01-02-2017, 06:26 PM
No exception for rider safety in NY?
In Oregon, you're required to ride as far right as practicable, with several exceptions - one being if there's not enough room for car and bike to ride side by side, including our vulnerable road use gap of 3'.
So there are actually very few roads in Oregon where the cyclist can't legally take the lane, and the DMV-issued cyclist handbook actually tells cyclists to do so any time they need to. While complying with the laws, obviously.
I'd expect it to be similar in most states
Actually, Oregon is one of the states that has a lot of additions to the UVC. East coast states tend to have less modifications, one of which is indeed the 3' rule. Presently, a similar addition is stuck in limbo in the NJ legislature (or was the last time I looked.)
rustychisel
01-02-2017, 06:53 PM
Late to this, but I'd just like to add my voice...
if this was my ride video I'd report it to police and insist on follow up to the fullest extent. Here in SA we have a 'metre matters' law (3 feet) which came in 2015. That video had me physically puckering for how close the pass was.
driver committed to a too fast overtake and not prepared to act responsibly with other traffic. Exceedingly bad judgement.
take them on. Argue rationally if you can when the adrenalin is still pumping (it's difficult). Having done it once they'll do it again, and again, until they're caught and called to account or when the result is catastrophy.
I say again to those who talk of 'don't antagonise' etc, these asshats have shown what they are and pacifism will not alter their behavior. Doing nothing will achieve nothing. Take them on, one turdburger at a time. Enforce action, demand change.
redir
01-02-2017, 06:55 PM
If he had time to beep his horn then he had time to break. Bull shmit on the it's not his fault car comin' the other way crap.
If it was a farm vehicle or broken down car or pretty much anything that is gas operated then that pieces of trash waste of human being would not have violently overtaken.
oldpotatoe
01-03-2017, 05:37 AM
That's why I'm a mountain biker.
Road riding for fun seems like an oxymoron.
Just gotta be smart about where you ride, IMHO. MTB, tried it about 3 times, no thanks. YMMV. OBTW-snow here last night, then warm, most(all) trials around here closed(?) PLUS gotta drive to 'em anyway..So in the winter/wet, MTB around here really doesn't exist..still 'gotta' ride.
Not trying to start any kind of MTB vs road thread..but if the ride is the goal, MTB and ride in wet around here not really gonna happen. Unless you want to tear up the trails.
BUT also gotta say I can't even spell 'MTB', haven't for 2 decades.:)
sitzmark
01-03-2017, 06:36 AM
If the cyclist, seeing it was unsafe to pass him, 'took the entire lane' the truck would have hit him.
Advocate killing/murdering the truck driver, gee that's brilliant...and some cyclists wonder why people in cars hate us.
I unfortunately spend as much or more time driving a motor vehicle every week than I do pedaling my bike - which technically makes me more more of a motorist than cyclist. As a motorist, the actions of this motorist make me hate this specific motorist (and those who act as he did) and not all motorists in general. Plenty of blame for bad cycling behavior out there as well.
I am one to be as courteous to motor traffic as possible - actually more so in general than many I ride with. That said, I also realize that more than a few drivers abuse the courtesy and use it to the disadvantage of cyclists - i.e. threading the needle when any modicum of common sense and responsibility would dictate not passing. Cyclists have a legal right to use designated roadways and drivers of other road going vehicles are legally required to respect that right and drive accordingly. The cyclists in the vid - especially the one who’s life was jeopardized - were riding exactly as the law provides at the time.
Had “truck driver” stopped to admit 100% error in judgement, error for not knowing the law, and regret for the danger he created, that would have sent a completely different message. "Get the **** off the road" as his first words conveyed his contempt for the rights of the cyclists, his selfishness at the expense of others, and his outright disregard for the life of a fellow human being. How much respect for his life and well being does that garner. Z-E-R-O.
As I said, I don't endorse vigilantism, but we all know 9 times out of 10 law enforcement will not take action until someone is dead. If that had been my wife, my better judgement would have been tested and I would have wanted that Ahole off the streets one way or another. That was a flat out if you value your life you will stay off of MY road.
verticaldoug
01-03-2017, 07:04 AM
I unfortunately spend as much or more time driving a motor vehicle every week than I do pedaling my bike - which technically makes me more more of a motorist than cyclist. As a motorist, the actions of this motorist make me hate this specific motorist (and those who act as he did) and not all motorists in general. Plenty of blame for bad cycling behavior out there as well.
I am one to be as courteous to motor traffic as possible - actually more so in general than many I ride with. That said, I also realize that more than a few drivers abuse the courtesy and use it to the disadvantage of cyclists - i.e. threading the needle when any modicum of common sense and responsibility would dictate not passing. Cyclists have a legal right to use designated roadways and drivers of other road going vehicles are legally required to respect that right and drive accordingly. The cyclists in the vid - especially the one who’s life was jeopardized - were riding exactly as the law provides at the time.
Had “truck driver” stopped to admit 100% error in judgement, error for not knowing the law, and regret for the danger he created, that would have sent a completely different message. "Get the **** off the road" as his first words conveyed his contempt for the rights of the cyclists, his selfishness at the expense of others, and his outright disregard for the life of a fellow human being. How much respect for his life and well being does that garner. Z-E-R-O.
As I said, I don't endorse vigilantism, but we all know 9 times out of 10 law enforcement will not take action until someone is dead. If that had been my wife, my better judgement would have been tested and I would have wanted that Ahole off the streets one way or another. That was a flat out if you value your life you will stay off of MY road.
An eye for an eye and we live in the land of the blind. I still think everyone is much better off in the long run if you can get the guy to empathize with you. I don't think anything was gain in the encounter after the near miss.
Flesh and bone loses to a ton of steel everytime. Maybe there is little hope in changing the drivers perception of cyclist as nuiscance, but it shouldn't stop you from trying.
William
01-03-2017, 07:12 AM
It's always interesting to see the different responses about what people see in a video....and that's all we have to go here, what's in the video
I unfortunately spend as much or more time driving a motor vehicle every week than I do pedaling my bike - which technically makes me more more of a motorist than cyclist. As a motorist, the actions of this motorist make me hate this specific motorist (and those who act as he did) and not all motorists in general. Plenty of blame for bad cycling behavior out there as well.
I am one to be as courteous to motor traffic as possible - actually more so in general than many I ride with. That said, I also realize that more than a few drivers abuse the courtesy and use it to the disadvantage of cyclists - i.e. threading the needle when any modicum of common sense and responsibility would dictate not passing. Cyclists have a legal right to use designated roadways and drivers of other road going vehicles are legally required to respect that right and drive accordingly. The cyclists in the vid - especially the one who’s life was jeopardized - were riding exactly as the law provides at the time.
Had “truck driver” stopped to admit 100% error in judgement, error for not knowing the law, and regret for the danger he created, that would have sent a completely different message. "Get the **** off the road" as his first words conveyed his contempt for the rights of the cyclists, his selfishness at the expense of others, and his outright disregard for the life of a fellow human being. How much respect for his life and well being does that garner. Z-E-R-O.
As I said, I don't endorse vigilantism, but we all know 9 times out of 10 law enforcement will not take action until someone is dead. If that had been my wife, my better judgement would have been tested and I would have wanted that Ahole off the streets one way or another. That was a flat out if you value your life you will stay off of MY road.
Actually the driver's first response was "that he couldn't stop the trailer...". The Eff bombs started after the cyclist started throwing them. The driver stopped because he knew he effed up, not for a confrontation. As I posted earlier in this thread, his actions and posture were not initially of one looking for a fight. The cyclist was understandably upset and his reactions caused the driver to escalate his responses. The driver was still in the wrong but that's what people do.
I don't think anyone here (me included) has said the driver wasn't at fault for his actions and poor judgement. We can play would have, could have, should have all day long, but the bottom line is that all we have to go on is what is actually in the video, and that everyone came out of this situation alive and unhurt.
William
biker72
01-03-2017, 07:14 AM
There may be circumstances that required these cyclist to be on this road but I would have found another route if possible. The cars are going 60+mph with virtually no shoulder to ride on this is an accident about to happen.
Why stop to confront this idiot??? What if he pulled a gun?? You can see what happened. An exchange of obscenities and everyone is on their way.
Tony T
01-03-2017, 07:18 AM
There may be circumstances that required these cyclist to be on this road but I would have found another route if possible. The cars are going 60+mph with virtually no shoulder to ride on this is an accident about to happen.
Do you know this road (sounds like you do), so what alternative routes could they have taken. I wouldn't ride this road either if it's posted @ 60MPH
biker72
01-03-2017, 07:36 AM
Do you know this road (sounds like you do), so what alternative routes could they have taken. I wouldn't ride this road either if it's posted @ 60MPH
Sorry Tony I don't know the road. Just judging from the terrain and lack of houses this road has to be posted at least 60mph. That shoulder is just too small for me.
Tony T
01-03-2017, 07:45 AM
Then if it's not a posted 60mph then not only does that section look ok to me note that the shoulder is wider later as shown in the 2nd video.
But, even at a lower posted speed, a lot depends on the traffic. I ride roads like that with a posted 35mph (but real traffic @ ~ 45) where I won't see a car for 15 minutes, but if it was a heavily trafficked road, I would try to avoid it.
eddief
01-03-2017, 07:51 AM
that road is newly paved. All sections have the white line painted on the far right side. Some sections have a full and wide lane for bicycles and others like where this incident took place are narrow and a bit scary with drivers in both directions going darn fast. Sight lines for drivers who care should make it easy to simply slow down when it is unsafe to pass. Not sure of the posted limit in this area. It is quite rural cow country and is the route between the tiny town of Tomales and the bigger town of Petaluma.
redir
01-03-2017, 08:49 AM
It's always interesting to see the different responses about what people see in a video....and that's all we have to go here, what's in the video
Actually the driver's first response was "that he couldn't stop the trailer...". The Eff bombs started after the cyclist started throwing them. The driver stopped because he knew he effed up, not for a confrontation. As I posted earlier in this thread, his actions and posture were not initially of one looking for a fight. The cyclist was understandably upset and his reactions caused the driver to escalate his responses. The driver was still in the wrong but that's what people do.
I don't think anyone here (me included) has said the driver wasn't at fault for his actions and poor judgement. We can play would have, could have, should have all day long, but the bottom line is that all we have to go on is what is actually in the video, and that everyone came out of this situation alive and unhurt.
William
Wait hold on a second. You say 'all we have to go on' is the video... Ok but then you go on to say that the driver, "stopped because he knew he effed up, not for a confrontation."
By your own logic, if all we have to go on is the video, then how would you know that? Besides, stopping to talk IS a confrontation.
edit
Actually the driver's first response was "that he couldn't stop the trailer...". The Eff bombs started after the cyclist started throwing them. The driver stopped because he knew he effed up, not for a confrontation. As I posted earlier in this thread, his actions and posture were not initially of one looking for a fight. The cyclist was understandably upset and his reactions caused the driver to escalate his responses. The driver was still in the wrong but that's what people do.
William
If there were animals in the trailer, the driver is not going to slow down. From the quick look I had of the op video, the driver initiated an unsafe pass and did the best after that. Reminds me of my many rides in MD/VA.
IMNSHO, people transporting horses are the worst (yes, worse than soccer mom/dads)......expecting cyclists to get off the road to let them pass and if they don't, all too willing to shave forearm hair right off.
oldpotatoe
01-03-2017, 09:21 AM
I unfortunately spend as much or more time driving a motor vehicle every week than I do pedaling my bike - which technically makes me more more of a motorist than cyclist. As a motorist, the actions of this motorist make me hate this specific motorist (and those who act as he did) and not all motorists in general. Plenty of blame for bad cycling behavior out there as well.
I am one to be as courteous to motor traffic as possible - actually more so in general than many I ride with. That said, I also realize that more than a few drivers abuse the courtesy and use it to the disadvantage of cyclists - i.e. threading the needle when any modicum of common sense and responsibility would dictate not passing. Cyclists have a legal right to use designated roadways and drivers of other road going vehicles are legally required to respect that right and drive accordingly. The cyclists in the vid - especially the one who’s life was jeopardized - were riding exactly as the law provides at the time.
Had “truck driver” stopped to admit 100% error in judgement, error for not knowing the law, and regret for the danger he created, that would have sent a completely different message. "Get the **** off the road" as his first words conveyed his contempt for the rights of the cyclists, his selfishness at the expense of others, and his outright disregard for the life of a fellow human being. How much respect for his life and well being does that garner. Z-E-R-O.
As I said, I don't endorse vigilantism, but we all know 9 times out of 10 law enforcement will not take action until someone is dead. If that had been my wife, my better judgement would have been tested and I would have wanted that Ahole off the streets one way or another. That was a flat out if you value your life you will stay off of MY road.
I get what you are saying but if that was your wife, she wasn't hit but you would walk up to the guy and kill him..yikes. Maybe even better if he had a gun and you could have a shoot out, yup, that would be awesome!!!
OBTW, the first 'F' bomb was launched by the guy on the bike, without knowing why the truck driver stopped but who cares, just shoot him!!
biker72
01-03-2017, 09:56 AM
that road is newly paved. All sections have the white line painted on the far right side. Some sections have a full and wide lane for bicycles and others like where this incident took place are narrow and a bit scary with drivers in both directions going darn fast. Sight lines for drivers who care should make it easy to simply slow down when it is unsafe to pass. Not sure of the posted limit in this area. It is quite rural cow country and is the route between the tiny town of Tomales and the bigger town of Petaluma.
Did a quick search on Google streets of Tomales to Petaluma Rd. All I could find was a couple of blind sharp turns marked 45mph.
Besides, stopping to talk IS a confrontation.
Sorry, but that makes no sense. Could be a prelude to an apology.
I get what you are saying but if that was your wife, she wasn't hit but you would walk up to the guy and kill him..yikes. Maybe even better if he had a gun and you could have a shoot out, yup, that would be awesome!!!
OBTW, the first 'F' bomb was launched by the guy on the bike, without knowing why the truck driver stopped but who cares, just shoot him!!
Hear, hear. Very well put.
The only thing I find truly irritating about this board is the number of macho men behind their keyboards. I assume it is false bravado; if not, then heaven help us.
Keyboard courage is quite common here.
thwart
01-03-2017, 10:24 AM
Okay, watched the 2nd vid with the confrontation.
Driver looked like he knew he did a dumb thing and appeared ready to say something along that line... but the interaction started out wrong and kept going that way. That's the problem with these situations... the cyclist is in a fight-or-flight, high adrenaline mode after a near-death encounter.
It really requires a calmer approach, and that is an awfully, awfully tough thing to do.
Anyone have any thoughts on how to get there?
William
01-03-2017, 10:31 AM
Wait hold on a second. You say 'all we have to go on' is the video... Ok but then you go on to say that the driver, "stopped because he knew he effed up, not for a confrontation."
By your own logic, if all we have to go on is the video, then how would you know that? Besides, stopping to talk IS a confrontation.
As I said in post #27...
Looking at the second video I get the sense the guy knew he effed up. Why else would he stop? If he intentionally buzzed them he would have kept going. On initial contact the guy is standing there with his hands in his pockets and his first response was he "couldn't stop because of the weight on there" (the trailer). That's not the stance or reaction of someone looking for a fight. Once a few FU's (understandably so) are thrown his way his defenses go up and it's an FU fest. I've had enough interactions/altercations with people to know that many will initially throw up a defense when scared or nervous and confronted with anger even when they know they are in the wrong.
Again, I'm not making excuses for the driver's poor judgement, he should be cited if he can be. Just pointing out that this appears to be a screw up that went wrong at many points.
Yes, I ascertained that opinion from the actions and response in the second video and my experience in accessing confrontational situations.
Okay, watched the 2nd vid with the confrontation.
Driver looked like he knew he did a dumb thing and appeared ready to say something along that line... but the interaction started out wrong and kept going that way. That's the problem with these situations... the cyclist is in a fight-or-flight, high adrenaline mode after a near-death encounter.
It really requires a calmer approach, and that is an awfully, awfully tough thing to do.
I agree.
William
Dead Man
01-03-2017, 10:32 AM
Okay, watched the 2nd vid with the confrontation.
Driver looked like he knew he did a dumb thing and appeared ready to say something along that line... but the interaction started out wrong and kept going that way. That's the problem with these situations... the cyclist is in a fight-or-flight, high adrenaline mode after a near-death encounter.
It really requires a calmer approach, and that is an awfully, awfully tough thing to do.
Anyone have any thoughts on how to get there?
Cannabis
JAllen
01-03-2017, 11:04 AM
Sorry that happened in the first place. Yikes!
If I put myself in the driver's shoes, I also cringe at the thought of a hard braking situation. He didn't allow ample time to slow down. But had he slammed on those brakes, the cargo shift (resulting in dead horses), and he lost full control of his vehicle? I think you could be looking at a front page paper of a massive fatality.
Anyone who drives should learn the Smith System! I had to when I drove a truck. It truly changes your life when it comes to operating a vehicle. And it's pretty common sense. Not that that's common...
Jgrooms
01-03-2017, 11:06 AM
Anyone have any thoughts on how to get there?
Zen.
Then think about all the road rage shootings & move on.
If you are ok, there is absolutely no 'win' in further confrontation.
I've learned this the hard way.
I hope this video is used to get the driver cited for an illegal pass. Hopefully LE is sympathetic & pushes it to dangerous & throws whatever is on the books at driver.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
JAllen
01-03-2017, 11:09 AM
.
I've learned this the hard way.
I'm intrigued...
joosttx
01-03-2017, 04:35 PM
Did a quick search on Google streets of Tomales to Petaluma Rd. All I could find was a couple of blind sharp turns marked 45mph.
Pretty nice scenery out there too.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/1/517/32033664815_08704fdbed_c.jpg
beeatnik
01-03-2017, 05:14 PM
Before I became a cyclist, I would have had the same opinion - what the fap was the driver supposed to do? Cyclist makes the lane uninhabitable, not enough room for two vehicles and a cyclist, guess the problem was with the cyclist being there to begin with.
Now that I am a cyclist, I know that the trailer driver is 100% to blame for this for not SLOWING DOWN APPROACHING A SLOW MOVING VEHICLE. It's not that the motorvehicle has "no place to go," "no other option," or any other variation- it's that the driver chose a reckless gamble to get around the cyclist fast and not "get stuck behind" instead of the only correct way to handle it - slow down, even to pace speed of necessary, and wait for a safe place to pass.
That's it, man. There's nothing else to this and no excuses.
Cyclists can help assist drivers in making this decision by not riding to far to the right when it's not safe to pass. If it's not safe to pass, take responsibility for your own safety and take the ****ing lane. I understand nobody wants to feel like an activist or be misunderstood as an entitled cyclist, but surviving the ride is more important than offending one driver.
4 words: I like your style.
beeatnik
01-03-2017, 05:44 PM
Growing up in a socioeconomically devastated community, I don't believe there are bad people. But there are people who can easily threaten your, um, comfort. There are people who are predictable yet unpredictable (statistically). Short story long, I've noticed that in the last few years, I find myself being the guy who hugs the shoulder, who is extra courteous to drivers, who feels privileged to ride a bike on a road designed for automobiles. Ya, I know the socio-historic context. And I'm a rebel, soul-rebel. But my activism has taken a different form: don't always take the lane but applaud those who do. I'm a wimp, ya see. I'm the dude who believes helmets, in the aggregate, make riding less safe, but I always ALWAYS wear a helmet (especially when I ride 6 blocks to buy beer at Trader Joe's...don't want to be a victim of irony).
Lately, or at least in the last year, I find that I never get upset at motorists. I mean, I've only nearly been killed 2x. It's possible I'm getting to the point where my good people/bad driver calculus is truly refined. So many nice drivers out there. In fact, many times too nice (it's hard to get some people to pass when I'm only going 20 and don't want to hold up 10 vehicles). Someone above mentioned zen. Ya, that's it! It's like water, man. Plus, I have so many other things to get truly angry about.
In the mean (unpredictable) streets of LA, on the micro level it's every cyclist for herself. In the mean roads of the US, I'm glad there are people who believe in "law and order." These people tend to be the most threatened users. I may owe them my life.
merlinmurph
01-03-2017, 07:13 PM
After pulling an 8500 lb. RV trailer around tbe country for the last 5+ months, let me state the obvious. You look waaaaay ahead all the time, and if anything looks suspect or unusual, you at least let up on the gas until you get a better look. From the video, it looks like the driver had good sight lines and has no excuses for the close brush. He either wasn't paying attention or didn't give a ****.
The driver pulling over is puzzling. Somebody that wants to apologize doesn't say "Get the f*** off the road", even after the cyclist f-bombing him. I mean, what did he expect? I believe he was there to further antagonize the cyclists, but we'll never know.
Anyways, just bring the videos to the cops. Hopefully, they will do something.
sitzmark
01-04-2017, 05:05 AM
An eye for an eye and we live in the land of the blind. I still think everyone is much better off in the long run if you can get the guy to empathize with you. I don't think anything was gain in the encounter after the near miss.
Flesh and bone loses to a ton of steel everytime. Maybe there is little hope in changing the drivers perception of cyclist as nuiscance, but it shouldn't stop you from trying.
Bring two perspectives (baggage maybe) to a very brief analysis of the video. One is family connection to the farming/ranching community - long retired or dead by now, but I did spend time with uncles, aunts, and cousins “on the ranch/farm” in my youth. It isn’t a cycling community in general … or wasn’t. Not hostile, but not respectful either.
This observation was reconfirmed a couple of years ago when I returned to CO for a family reunion and participated in the annual Ride the Rockies event. I was never a cyclist in my youth in CO, so I observe from a different perspective these days. Anyway, one day of the ride I decided to get lunch at a local small town sandwich shop instead of the organized rest stop. Standing in line and a rancher walks in and stands next to me. He inquired about all of the bicyclists. I told him it is RTR. In a very matter-of-fact , non emotional conversation he said you folks need to stay off of these roads - we use them for our work and they are not for play. I responded that safety and respecting the rules of the road were paramount for participation in the event and I had observed no instances of anyone ignoring the law or interfering with traffic. He calmly replied that the local businessmen (farmers/ranchers) could not be responsible for the safety of the bicyclists. Equally as calm, I replied that he would then have to live with the consequenses of whatever might happen due to his lack of responsibility. I got my sandwich, he got his and we parted company.
At a completely different level was my introduction to the South in the 70’s/80’s. I crossed paths through friends of friends with some people who were quite different than anyone I had ever known. It was a cascading progression of situations, but eventually I cut all ties with them and my close friends as well. This was a group of jocks, gym rats, and semi-pro footballers - mean and strong. None had respect for weakness, homosexuals, or minorities. Guess where skinny cyclists fit into that equation. The weak they picked on - their MO was to ridicule, not cause grave harm - not because they had respect for the indviduals, but because they didn’t want to be jailed. These were the type of people to throw bottles and run cyclists off the road for entertainment. (Never saw it personally.) I did experience their fascination with getting into fights on Saturday nights. It was something to look forward to - to provoke a fight and “jack someone up”. It was a topic of discussion when deciding where to go and what to do for the night. Fights rarely involved those they chose to riddicule - fights saved for more worthy opponents. These people exist.
Don’t know if “truck driver” fits in either bucket … I wasn’t there and something for those involved to decide. But if he does “fit a bucket”, at what point (if any) does an individual, community, society take preventive action to remove a confirmed threat to innocent people when those charged with protecting public safety refuse to do so. The law says never. It isn’t an eye-for-eye / revenge discussion, but rather one of self-defense and prevention. Doing whatever is necessary isn’t as simple as a shoot out at the OK corral - it is a question of what are ALL the options. At what point does society say enough is enough. On a percentage basis, there aren’t that many of these individuals out there, but they are there.
Law first … societal dilemma if no action.
oldpotatoe
01-04-2017, 05:53 AM
These people exist.
Don’t know if “truck driver” fits in either bucket … I wasn’t there and something for those involved to decide. But if he does “fit a bucket”, at what point (if any) does an individual, community, society take preventive action to remove a confirmed threat to innocent people when those charged with protecting public safety refuse to do so. The law says never. It isn’t an eye-for-eye / revenge discussion, but rather one of self-defense and prevention. Doing whatever is necessary isn’t as simple as a shoot out at the OK corral - it is a question of what are ALL the options. At what point does society say enough is enough. On a percentage basis, there aren’t that many of these individuals out there, but they are there.
Law first … societal dilemma if no action.
Lots snipped.
Dylann Roof did exactly that, take preventive action(in his view) to stop the injustices carried out by certain minorities against the white 'class'. 'His' society said 'enough is enough'.
A certain elected official, in my view, will cause great harm. A confirmed threat to innocent people. Not action but a threat..ok to to execute, I guess?
forehead slap.
Jgrooms
01-04-2017, 08:34 AM
Sitzmark,
If you were ever to find yourself in an altercation & say the other guy fell, hit his head & died, your post would be used against you in court to suggest intent.
Yes they exist. I have a similar ranch/farm background & the roads are our 'business' is common. In some cases they can trace the road right of way to their ancestors, so "my" road has a different meaning for them.
Add in there is a huge rural vs urban class issue. Rural 'folk' - many - have a general disdain, laced with a lot of insecurity for all things 'city'. A bunch of urban elites, so perceived, pedaling along on their roads irks them to no end.
Hell they probably have pahachdeez. Them hardworking ;-) cowboys living for the weekend rodeo & truck pull are not going to put down the Budweiser & slow down. Unless the barrel racing queen, 30 yrs past her big day & laying in his lap, is feeling kind. Frankly, many of them feel a little buzz by will get rid of you & have a bit of fun at same time as they go through life in a John Wayne haze watching Fox 'News'.
OP- its on video. Use it! I hope to see the thread updated w that.
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sitzmark
01-04-2017, 09:00 AM
Sitzmark,
If you were ever to find yourself in an altercation & say the other guy fell, hit his head & died, your post would be used against you in court to suggest intent.
...
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I don't intend to have an altercation with anyone unless I perceive my family is in grave or mortal danger and no one will do anything about it. I will then happily trade my life for theirs. Or find whatever means eliminates the threat.
I am aware of the legal implications.
Tony T
01-04-2017, 09:59 AM
I don't intend to have an altercation with anyone unless I perceive my family is in grave or mortal danger and no one will do anything about it. I will then happily trade my life for theirs. Or find whatever means eliminates the threat.
I am aware of the legal implications.
To prevent? Agreed.
As revenge for a close call? Call the police instead.
redir
01-04-2017, 10:13 AM
After pulling an 8500 lb. RV trailer around tbe country for the last 5+ months, let me state the obvious. You look waaaaay ahead all the time, and if anything looks suspect or unusual, you at least let up on the gas until you get a better look. From the video, it looks like the driver had good sight lines and has no excuses for the close brush. He either wasn't paying attention or didn't give a ****.
The driver pulling over is puzzling. Somebody that wants to apologize doesn't say "Get the f*** off the road", even after the cyclist f-bombing him. I mean, what did he expect? I believe he was there to further antagonize the cyclists, but we'll never know.
Anyways, just bring the videos to the cops. Hopefully, they will do something.
Exactly. Stop blaming the victim!
sitzmark
01-04-2017, 10:13 AM
To prevent? Agreed.
As revenge for a close call? Call the police instead.
Did I not say police first in the very beginning. Yes I did. No revenge - never was a part of the (my) discussion.
merlinmurph
01-04-2017, 10:21 AM
Did I not say police first in the very beginning. Yes I did. No revenge - never was a part of the (my) discussion.
That's the way I read your post.
Thanks for that insight. Sometimes you don't realize the types of people that are out there, and when you do meet them, you have to wonder where they're coming from. You described those two types perfectly.
Sitzmark,
By saying it is "a societal dilemma," you seem to be suggesting that vigilantism may be acceptable under certain circumstances. In a civilized society, it is not an option. Accepting that as an option makes one no better than the driver who decides he needs to aggressively enforce his own view that cyclists should not be using the road.
After pulling an 8500 lb. RV trailer around tbe country for the last 5+ months, let me state the obvious. You look waaaaay ahead all the time, and if anything looks suspect or unusual, you at least let up on the gas until you get a better look. From the video, it looks like the driver had good sight lines and has no excuses for the close brush. He either wasn't paying attention or didn't give a ****.
Well said. May I add that the same is true for any driver of any vehicle? I see far too many drivers surprised by brake lights, obstructions in the road, construction zones, pedestrians crossing, bikes, etc. If you spend your entire drive staring at the trunk lid in front of you, you are a crash waiting to happen. "Eyes up" is the first and most important fundamental of driving a car.
sitzmark
01-05-2017, 05:24 PM
Sitzmark,
By saying it is "a societal dilemma," you seem to be suggesting that vigilantism may be acceptable under certain circumstances. In a civilized society, it is not an option. Accepting that as an option makes one no better than the driver who decides he needs to aggressively enforce his own view that cyclists should not be using the road.
A neighbor has a history of walking around the neighborhood and shooting his gun in the direction of people. Seems he likes the challenge of seeing how close he can come without actually hitting them. Everyone in town has complained to the police, but the police will do nothing. They say, come back when someone is actually injured or killed.
Then it happens, you turn around one day and he has his gun pointed in the direction your child. BANG! He misses and runs away. You call the police … injured or killed … call us back when either happens. But you know this guy does this all the time! … injured or killed. G’day.
Now what do you do? Surely one day he is going to miss. Do you never let your child go outside again? Do you uproot your family and move? Do you take action? How long are all of the other neighbors willing to be holed up in their houses?
The only difference between the scenario above and someone who is documented (close call database) of doing the same thing with a vehicle is that the police will actually intervene when a gun is involved.
The answer may be simple for you. Represents a dilemma for me.
Not to get all philosophical, and I don't know that the answer is "simple," but we must have moral boundaries. Vigilantism violates the moral boundaries we set as a society. Without moral boundaries, we have a proverbial race to the bottom where everybody loses.
tctyres
01-05-2017, 08:38 PM
Aaand...... it's in the news
http://cycling.today/get-the-fk-off-the-road-driver-tells-cyclists-after-incredibly-close-pass/
joosttx
01-05-2017, 08:39 PM
Aaand...... it's in the news
http://cycling.today/get-the-fk-off-the-road-driver-tells-cyclists-after-incredibly-close-pass/
So lame
Tony T
01-05-2017, 08:54 PM
Was looking at another video on that site.
Glad this guy wasn't hurt and I commend his composure after the crash (I wish I could be that cool).
https://youtu.be/MMqtMxPufj4
eddief
01-06-2017, 07:41 AM
the male person who was involved in the incident posted this yesterday:
A bunch of people have asked me for an update on what is happening with
this incident.
On Tuesday I went down to the Rohnert Park Highway Patrol office armed
with a typed statement of what happened, printouts of the still photos
that Jake Bayless captured from the videos, and a DVD with the videos.
The officer on duty happened to be Public Information Officer Jonathan
Sloat, whom some have criticized for not doing enough to pursue the
perpetrators in previous incidents of this sort.
He commented that they get these kinds of things fairly often. If all
they have is a license number the best they can do is send the
registered owner a letter. But he said in this case it looks like we
have excellent footage of a clear violation and a good image of the
driver so we may be able to prosecute. He said he would review the
video with his supervisor and get back to me.
He was as good as his word and while I can't go into details it looks
like something is going to happen. They are taking the case very seriously.
The biggest misconception that comes up in situations like this is that,
if you have video, the police can run right out and write a citation.
To get the charge to stick there is much more legwork involved. So it
may be some time before more information can be made public. Patience!
Jgrooms
01-06-2017, 11:13 AM
Thanks for the update!
I actually think that the use of video provided to LE or used on SM is the way to prevent the obvious harassers of this sort.
When they hear about how "all these cyclist have cameras" maybe - just maybe - it gives the perps pause. Hey, I'll be posted on FB trying to buzz them & then ranting or hey maybe I get a ticket for breaking the law. Pause?
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redir
01-06-2017, 02:09 PM
Excellent!
BTW on another look. When they road up to the guy with his hands in his pockets the first thing I would think is hes got something, what? In there.
eddief
01-07-2017, 03:39 PM
someone who viewed the video on youtube was able to ID the driver. ID sent to victim.
Jgrooms
01-07-2017, 08:34 PM
Was looking at another video on that site.
Glad this guy wasn't hurt and I commend his composure after the crash (I wish I could be that cool).
https://youtu.be/MMqtMxPufj4
1. I'm not blaming the rider because clearly its his lane. But he is going way too fast considering its wet, vis is difficult & you know someone is going to chop that lane.
2. He's ok and rides off? Maybe check yourself out a bit. Get driver's info. Call LE, just in case. I dunno maybe he landed in the grass, but I think I'd let the adrenaline wear off.
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