rear zipp 404 hub issues

[ivanooze]

-I have a question for all you master mechanics out there.
i've been riding a set of 2016 404s for a few months and were pretty good wheels until i had the wheel serviced.

-i had them serviced after a rain ride, and despite a tiny bit of dirt that crawled into the hub, everything seemed alright but it wasn't....

-before the servicing: 1. i was able to spin the crank and have the wheel coast without the crank arms moving with the wheel.
2. i was able to spin the cassette (not on the frame) freely without much resistance

-after the servicing: 1. when i spin the crank, the crank arms move with the wheel which in my opinion seems that there's something stuck in the hub body that's causing it to lag.
2. the cassette feels really stiff and stops almost automatically when i spin it by hand.

-what changed during the servicing we accidentally forgot to add the rubber washer that lies in between the pawls and the hub body, i didnt realize it until the mechanic told me after my 10 mile ride back home.
-i went back to install it and everything started to feel stiff. i tried flipping the rubber washer around to see if it would make a difference, but so far nothing.

-so my question is: does anyone know of this issue and how to fix it? i can provide a video to give you guys a visual of what im dealing with.


this is the only info i can find on zipp 404 hubs but it's in the firestrike model.
http://www.zipp.com/_media/pdfs/manuals/Rev_A_2015_Zipp_404_Firestrike_Service_Manual.pdf

-if anyone knows if you can get the firecrest service manual and send me the link that would be awesome.

[Jgrooms]

Sounds like you have the bearing preload too tight?

With the wheel on the bike, back it off until the hub stops turning the crank & see what the side to side movement of the wheel looks like


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ivanooze]

actually i think i might've figured out what's wrong.

-i believe i'm missing a shim that goes in front of the bearing. i'll double check the hub to see if it's there. Although i can't see a tiny shim causing the wheel to have so much friction, but then again, what do i know.

-if the shim is there then i'll try the pre-load adjustment

http://forums.thepaceline.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=1697932377&stc=1&d=1483154064

[DerekB]

Thats shim is crucial! If it is missing, you have a bearing pressing against a bearing and all is lost......
When I have worked on mine (older 303's), if the sealing ring was not seated just right it also caused some of the symptoms you are describing.

[sitzmark]

Thats shim is crucial! If it is missing, you have a bearing pressing against a bearing and all is lost......
When I have worked on mine (older 303's), if the sealing ring was not seated just right it also caused some of the symptoms you are describing.

This.

[ivanooze]

Thats shim is crucial! If it is missing, you have a bearing pressing against a bearing and all is lost......
When I have worked on mine (older 303's), if the sealing ring was not seated just right it also caused some of the symptoms you are describing.

so speaking of this shim. i took apart the hub and i see 2 different sized bearings. a smaller cartridge in the hub itself (i think i see a shim in front of the cartridge) and a larger cartridge in the hub body. do you happen to know if the shim is going to be the size of the hub body bearings or the hub shell bearings?

-judging by the pictures seen on the zipp support page, it looks like the shim is meant to be the size of the hub body bearings and looks like it can be removed very easily which leads me to believe that the shim isn't there.

[sitzmark]

Have not rebuilt 177, but in all other Zipp hubs the flat washer is the diameter of the inner race and very thin. Easy to lose.

[ivanooze]

i'm losing my mind here. the bearings are the same size. screw it, im headed to home depot with the freehub body, hopefully they have it

[oldpotatoe]

so speaking of this shim. i took apart the hub and i see 2 different sized bearings. a smaller cartridge in the hub itself (i think i see a shim in front of the cartridge) and a larger cartridge in the hub body. do you happen to know if the shim is going to be the size of the hub body bearings or the hub shell bearings?

-judging by the pictures seen on the zipp support page, it looks like the shim is meant to be the size of the hub body bearings and looks like it can be removed very easily which leads me to believe that the shim isn't there.

Same ID as the axle, where the FH sits on the bearing in the hub..same ID as the bearing at the base of the FH body.

For right below, 'zipp section', funny..just went there, and got the typical, 'thousand yard stare' when I asked about a plumbing part.:eek:

[Cicli]

i'm losing my mind here. the bearings are the same size. screw it, im headed to home depot with the freehub body, hopefully they have it

Home Deport parts are likely not the solution when you dont know exactly what you need.
Whats the ID, OD and thickness of the one thats missing? Right, I doubt it will end well with a trip to the Home Despot. Unless they have a zipp section now.

[bikerider888]

Just like to point out that your mechanic doesn't inspire confidence. He left out 2 critical parts on a simple servicing job. I'd not go back to him, even if he's a friend and did you a "favor". Yikes.

There is no pre-load adjustment on this hub, FYI. Assuming these are the 2016 model with the 77/177 hubs.

[sitzmark]

Home Deport parts are likely not the solution when you dont know exactly what you need.
Whats the ID, OD and thickness of the one thats missing? Right, I doubt it will end well with a trip to the Home Despot. Unless they have a zipp section now.

No guarantee, but previous (to 177) Zipp shims are 0.25mm thickness. When disassembling the shim(s)* often stick to the inner race of the hub body bearing or hub bearing - even when the axle is removed. They are identical in size to the race, so if not paying attention it's easy to not see it. As parts are moved around the shim can quietly fall off and roll away... never to be seen again.

Easy to get from Zipp, but will take a few days. Good luck.

*older version hubs use 2 shims behind campy hub body. Zipp used to say up to 3 shims (flat washers) were "acceptable" - for spacing/11sp campy mods.

[ivanooze]

so it looks like everything was there, no missing shims or anything. i took everything apart and had it reinstalled, but something still doesnt feel quite right.

-it could just be my imagination but i feel like a cassette should feel smooth when you give it a good spin. it still feels a bit stiff but i guess i'll deal with it.

[Louis]

What determines the amount of pre-load on the bearings? (I'm not familiar with that hub.) The exploded view above doesn't seem to show anything.

Have you tried to play around with that?

[ivanooze]

What determines the amount of pre-load on the bearings? (I'm not familiar with that hub.) The exploded view above doesn't seem to show anything.

Have you tried to play around with that?

there is no pre-load

[sitzmark]

Did you "set" the hub body seal by pushing it inside the flange body? It should not be exposed and riding against the flange, which will cause drag. If out, push into the flange body with something flexible.

[ivanooze]

Did you "set" the hub body seal by pushing it inside the flange body? It should not be exposed and riding against the flange, which will cause drag. If out, push into the flange body with something flexible.

this was the missing link. i tried this today (after my ride of course...) and just like that, my issue was solved.