Decent wt wheelset at a reasonable cost$ ???

[Clancy]

The recent thread about lacing wheels had me wondering....

Is it possible for someone building up their own wheels to lace up a set of road wheels in the 1,500-1,550 gram range and keep the costs down?

Going with decent quality not top shelf stuff is it possible to build a set for under, say, $600?

What rims, spokes and nipples, and hubs people would recommend for a hand built wheel at a decent weight. And decently solid.

[AngryScientist]

not a problem at all.

how much does a clancy weigh?

[Clancy]

Ready to ride 155#

[AngryScientist]

Ready to ride 155#

archetypes laced 20x24 with Bitex hubs. sapim race spokes, brass nips.

definitely in the 1500g range, definitely well under $600. Bitex hubs are totally underrated, excellent quality, reasonably priced hubs. at your weight and road only, those would be perfectly reliable wheels for a billion miles, as long as they are built well.

done.

[franswa]

Very possible.

http://www.bikehubstore.com/product-p/xr31tgraykit2024.htm


http://www.bikehubstore.com/product-p/xr31tkit.htm


http://www.bikehubstore.com/product-p/c31wikit.htm

[saab2000]

A set of Boyd Altamont Lites comes in at just over 1500 grams for $700 + shipping. Not sure what the rims strips would add but it's another option.

[Tony T]

…and order by Monday from BHS and get a 10% discount.

[fignon's barber]

I would go with Archtype rims/ PMP hubs/DT Comp spokes for the win. Has some panache and can be put together for around $500 or so.

[drewellison]

Maybe check with oldpotatoe to see what he can do.

[jtbadge]

BHS hubs are fantastic, light, and affordable. Highly recommended with Archetypes.

[oldpotatoe]

Maybe check with oldpotatoe to see what he can do.

Well, since I 'charge' for my labor, add $100. But for a home wheelbuilder a 1500 gram wheelset for $500 or so(or less, less $ hubs)is easy.

For the guy above, BHS hubs..not bad but gigantic spoke holes and at least one gent had a flange break so...ymmv. I think
There are better choices.

[bewheels]

A set of Boyd Altamont Lites comes in at just over 1500 grams for $700 + shipping. Not sure what the rims strips would add but it's another option.

Seconded...

Very well built.
High quality parts.
Great company.

[mhespenheide]

Do you want to build the wheels yourself? If not, how about this model from Neugent Wheels: http://www.neugentcycling.com/product28.html? 1580 grams, $299 (minus 10% off right now).

[dcgriz]

The recent thread about lacing wheels had me wondering....

Is it possible for someone building up their own wheels to lace up a set of road wheels in the 1,500-1,550 gram range and keep the costs down?

Going with decent quality not top shelf stuff is it possible to build a set for under, say, $600?

What rims, spokes and nipples, and hubs people would recommend for a hand built wheel at a decent weight. And decently solid.

You've told us your weight at 155 lbs but not your watt output. Let's assume you are capable of putting out 500 watts and are an above average sprinter.

Consider the following build:
Shimano Dura-ace hubs, 20 h front, 28 h rear, UK procured for $300
H+Son Archetype, $120 for the pair
Sapim Race spokes $30
Sapim nipples $10 (brass will be stronger but aluminum will also do fine if you are not in a coastal environment)
Total material cost $460; strong set with decent lateral stiffness and bias towards racing

[Black Dog]

Why not ultegra hubs. Is there a better value hub in the known universe? This coming from a die hard campy guy. Also why anything less than 32 rear and 28 front. Certainly not to save any real weight. Get in touch with Ergott or Oldpotato and get some amazing wheels built up for you.

[mtechnica]

Zondas?

[dcgriz]

Why not ultegra hubs. Is there a better value hub in the known universe? This coming from a die hard campy guy. Also why anything less than 32 rear and 28 front. Certainly not to save any real weight. Get in touch with Ergott or Oldpotato and get some amazing wheels built up for you.

Ultegra are excellent in all except availability in other than 32/36 drillings and weight. The OP asked for a lower weight wheelset and Ultegra would push the set over 1700 grams.
Ultegra 32/32 laced on Archetypes make for a bombproof wheelset excellent for all-around use but not the racing biased set the OP asked advise on.

[oldpotatoe]

You've told us your weight at 155 lbs but not your watt output. Let's assume you are capable of putting out 500 watts and are an above average sprinter.

Consider the following build:
Shimano Dura-ace hubs, 20 h front, 28 h rear, UK procured for $300
H+Son Archetype, $120 for the pair
Sapim Race spokes $30
Sapim nipples $10 (brass will be stronger but aluminum will also do fine if you are not in a coastal environment)
Total material cost $460; strong set with decent lateral stiffness and bias towards racing

Yowser and holy wholesale minus. Ya 'might' get those prices but.

[Clancy]

I'll be building the wheels myself and hoping to go with 28 spokes f/r. What many on the forum stress is spokes weigh little so minimal difference between 24 vs 28.

Originally thinking 28 spokes rear 3X, 24 front, 2X

Also, not confident enough to build a wheel that may be radial NDS and 2X DS.

How much more difficult is building a 2X/radial spoke wheel vs 3X? Radial spoke wheel vs 2X?

I would like to go w Dura Ace hubs, beautiful and bulletproof. The H Plus rims are also beautiful.

How are Sapim race spokes different then the DT's? I've only used DT's.

[oldpotatoe]

I'll be building the wheels myself and hoping to go with 28 spokes f/r. What many on the forum stress is spokes weigh little so minimal difference between 24 vs 28.

Originally thinking 28 spokes rear 3X, 24 front, 2X

Also, not confident enough to build a wheel that may be radial NDS and 2X DS.

How much more difficult is building a 2X/radial spoke wheel vs 3X? Radial spoke wheel vs 2X?

I would like to go w Dura Ace hubs, beautiful and bulletproof. The H Plus rims are also beautiful.

How are Sapim race spokes different then the DT's? I've only used DT's.

It's not, a wheel is a wheel, the same concepts apply regardless of similar count, spoke lace pattern.

DT are a little bit larger at the elbow than Sapim, so tighter fitting into hubs with small spoke holes, like DA(may need to 'seat' spoke head). BUT DT Comp and Sapim Race same dimensions, 2mm/1.8mm/2mm..with maybe a little bit different butt lengths. Sapim SecureLock nipps(which I highly recommend with 11s hubs and non OC rear rims...actually I use these exclusively on all my wheels, F and B) are 'mechanical'-a dimple in the threads vs 'chemical' for DT-a wee dab of spoke lock/glue.

I prefer Sapim and use 14mm SecureLock nipps.

Good prices on Sapim here

http://www.yojimbosgarage.com/

[Tony T]

I'll be building the wheels myself and hoping to go with 28 spokes f/r. What many on the forum stress is spokes weigh little so minimal difference between 24 vs 28.

Well, you did set a weight goal of 1550g, and a dollar limit of ~ $600, so that's why there were suggestions for 24/20. Alloy nips will also save weight.

Here's a handy wheel weight calculator: http://www.wheelbuilder.com/wheel-weight-calculator.html

Going with 20/24 vs 28/28 will save 64g, alloy nips another 28g

IMO, don't worry about the weight.

[dcgriz]

Yowser and holy wholesale minus. Ya 'might' get those prices but.

Wholesale? Not at all. I buy retail and all the prices I listed are internet retail and not blow-out sales either. The hubs from UK, the rest from the mainland. Google is your friend ......

If you buy the sales from U.K. you could do a lot better. Just bought a 6800 for my stash for $50; regular U.K. price is around $90 for the Ultegra rear.

Sadly from what my LBS friends are telling me, the Shimano retail price structure overseas is often less than what shops are paying their distributors here. I'm sure you are aware of this though.

[AngryScientist]

Why not ultegra hubs. Is there a better value hub in the known universe? This coming from a die hard campy guy. Also why anything less than 32 rear and 28 front. Certainly not to save any real weight. Get in touch with Ergott or Oldpotato and get some amazing wheels built up for you.

first off, ultegra hubs dont come in any drillings less than 32.

they are excellent quality and durability, but if you hold an ultegra hub in your hand and compare it to a bitex hub for example, you start to wonder where shimano hid the lead ballast. they are seriously porky hubs.

if you're after a 1500ish gram wheelset, ultegra hubs are not a great place to start and actually hit the goal.

for training, gravel grinding, touring wheels, i do agree that ultegra are hard to beat for the value, but a light wheel, they do not make.

[dcgriz]

I'll be building the wheels myself and hoping to go with 28 spokes f/r. What many on the forum stress is spokes weigh little so minimal difference between 24 vs 28.

Originally thinking 28 spokes rear 3X, 24 front, 2X

Also, not confident enough to build a wheel that may be radial NDS and 2X DS.

How much more difficult is building a 2X/radial spoke wheel vs 3X? Radial spoke wheel vs 2X?

I would like to go w Dura Ace hubs, beautiful and bulletproof. The H Plus rims are also beautiful.

How are Sapim race spokes different then the DT's? I've only used DT's.

A few thoughts for your consideration:

Unless you build a wheel for disc brakes or for a tourer that will see a lot of front load, there is no benefit to match the front wheel spoke number with that of the rear wheel. Your weight distribution on the bike is heavily biased towards the rear.
Often you may see 32/32 with Ultegra or 105 hubs. This is done because the spoke count is limited with these hubs to 32 or 36.
The 28 Race spoke arrangement is pretty conservative for the rear and that's a good thing, IMO. 24f/28r with Race and Archetype will work fine for your weight. Earlier I suggested 20f because you indicated your desire to stay close to the 1500 grams mark which to me indicates a wheel biased more towards performance than durability.

If this is will be your first attempt in wheelbuilding, Roger Musson's ebook on Wheelbuilding is IMO the best $14 you may spent pursuing it. Follow the instructions and illustrations and adjust for the number of spokes and lacing form the 32/3x he is showing. The adjustments are indicated in the book.

If you decide to do the front radial, check with the hub manufacturer to make sure your hub warranty is not voided. Personally, I would not do the front radial with more than 24 spokes. The reason for this, regardless warranties, is that more drillings cause the spacing between the tip of the hub flange and the centerline of the spoke hole to be less so hub flange cracking is potentially more probable. IMO, radial spooking with 28 spokes doesn't look all that pleasing either as the spokes are closer together.

[Tony T]

if this is will be your first attempt in wheelbuilding, roger musson's ebook on wheelbuilding is imo the best $14 you may spent pursuing it.

+1

[Tony T]

IMO, radial spooking with 28 spokes doesn't look all that pleasing either as the spokes are closer together.

OP was thinking radial for rear NDS. Less tension, so should not be a problem,
however, AFAIK, there is no benefit to radial NDS (and personally, I don't like the 'look')

[oldpotatoe]

Wholesale? Not at all. I buy retail and all the prices I listed are internet retail and not blow-out sales either. The hubs from UK, the rest from the mainland. Google is your friend ......

If you buy the sales from U.K. you could do a lot better. Just bought a 6800 for my stash for $50; regular U.K. price is around $90 for the Ultegra rear.

Sadly from what my LBS friends are telling me, the Shimano retail price structure overseas is often less than what shops are paying their distributors here. I'm sure you are aware of this though.

Well, there's retail and then 'retail'. DA9000 hubs at US wholesale are actually more than the $300 UK prices(QBP). Same with Sapim Spokes..about $.35 wholesale. $.15 per nipple.

Yup, very familiar with 'pricing' structure. Often in the UK, distributors are selling to bike shops and also consumer direct..at wholesale $ either way. Same is happening in the US..At least 2 US places with deep discounts are 'owned' by bike part distributors.

[dcgriz]

OP was thinking radial for rear NDS. Less tension, so should not be a problem,
however, AFAIK, there is no benefit to radial NDS (and personally, I don't like the 'look')

I went back and read the post again. You are correct, I missed the NDS part.

IMO, I would expect nothing good come out of a radial NDS using conventional components. Especially when there is apparent limited experience in wheel-building.

No good reason, in my book, to go other than 2x/2x on a 28 spoke rear wheel.

[YesNdeed]

These are sub 1500, but at $600+ shipping, looks like a decent deal. Never had a pair myself, but have heard many a rave about the Zeros.
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=196362

[dcgriz]

Well, there's retail and then 'retail'. DA9000 hubs at US wholesale are actually more than the $300 UK prices(QBP). Same with Sapim Spokes..about $.35 wholesale. $.15 per nipple.

Yup, very familiar with 'pricing' structure. Often in the UK, distributors are selling to bike shops and also consumer direct..at wholesale $ either way. Same is happening in the US..At least 2 US places with deep discounts are 'owned' by bike part distributors.

Yes indeed. My "retail" is nowadays internet based other than my "obligatory" contribution to my favorite LBS. Always gets me that its less expensive to buy something from abroad and have it delivered across the pond than from New Jersey... Tires is another example of this.

I dont profess to have a deep understanding of distribution price tariffs as I am just a hobbyist but it seems to me if Shimano was more business friendly to the wheelbuilding community here, the T-11s and R45s would not have been as popular as they are.

Interesting point about the silver Sapim ......as packaged by the manufacturer they come with nipples ..... as re-packaged by some retailers they dont.....price per spoke remains the same.

[cmg]

it's easy, my build, all parts from the bikehubstore unless you can find cheaper, if your less than 180lbs, stans notubes alpha 400 rim 28 spoke for the rear, over 180lbs use 32 spoke, 2-3 cross both sides, a stans notubes alpha 340 for the front 24-28 spoke, for hubs, the superwide 71ws and for the rear the superlight 210. Built a wheelset similar to this and i'm over 180lbs. for spokes i'd used a mix of sapim race and lasers for the rear and all sapim lasers on the front. this will build a wheelset under the 1550 gram requirement. less spokes heavier rim needed, more spokes lighter rim, the goal is to reduce weight at the rim. just got a velocity aerohead wheelset where the thicker spokes are on the non-driveside on the rear wheel. they seem to be holding up just fine.

[oldpotatoe]

Yes indeed. My "retail" is nowadays internet based other than my "obligatory" contribution to my favorite LBS. Always gets me that its less expensive to buy something from abroad and have it delivered across the pond than from New Jersey... Tires is another example of this.

I dont profess to have a deep understanding of distribution price tariffs as I am just a hobbyist but it seems to me if Shimano was more business friendly to the wheelbuilding community here, the T-11s and R45s would not have been as popular as they are.

Interesting point about the silver Sapim ......as packaged by the manufacturer they come with nipples ..... as re-packaged by some retailers they dont.....price per spoke remains the same.

shimano wants to sell wheels, not hubs. Same for Campag and Mavic. I'm surprised shimano, Campag still make hubs at all..mavic still making rims.

My spoke guy gets long shaft blanks..and then nipples..boxes of 500. If I ever score a morizumi spoke cutter/threader, I will too. I only use SecureLock nipps.

[pjmsj21]

Zondas?

Unless one was set on wanting to build a set of wheels, I agree that it is very hard to beat a set of Zonda's or the Fulcrum equivalent.

[dcgriz]

shimano wants to sell wheels, not hubs. Same for Campag and Mavic. I'm surprised shimano, Campag still make hubs at all..mavic still making rims.

My spoke guy gets long shaft blanks..and then nipples..boxes of 500. If I ever score a morizumi spoke cutter/threader, I will too. I only use SecureLock nipps.

Hopefully they will continue to offer hubs. Record and Ultegra are workhorses; IMO top choices for an all-around set if color and drillings work with the scheme. DA is my favorite Ti freehub when the dial turns towards performance more than durability.

Shimano keeps on improving their road hubs and trickling features down to Ultegra (e.g. Digital preset is wonderfull and makes spanner adjustment a thing of the past). I cant say the same for the Shimano touring hubs when an old time favorite, the XT, took a turn southward with smaller bearings forced by aluminum axles.
I cant say the same either for the Mavic rims, at least from my experiences with some hits and misses.

[doublenines]

These are sub 1500, but at $600+ shipping, looks like a decent deal. Never had a pair myself, but have heard many a rave about the Zeros.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=196362


That's less than I paid for my 3's a few years ago. Haven't ridden the Zero's but the 3's are great. (Although mounting a tubeless Hutchinson Fusion on them was the hardest mount I've ever done.)

[texbike]

Unless one was set on wanting to build a set of wheels, I agree that it is very hard to beat a set of Zonda's or the Fulcrum equivalent.

That's less than I paid for my 3's a few years ago. Haven't ridden the Zero's but the 3's are great. (Although mounting a tubeless Hutchinson Fusion on them was the hardest mount I've ever done.)

Agreed! Fulcrum 3s can be had for less than $400 shipped to the U.S. Fantastic wheels! Shimano 6800s can be had for $300 while C24 RS81s can be had for less than $500. It's hard to beat any of these pre-builts for the price/performance ratio.

Texbike

[Joxster]

Zonda is my go to wheel set, I'm a bit chunky (235lbs) and can put down a few watts and I've never had any problems. Another one to look at is Miche Altur

[Pastashop]

If money is a serious consideration, then long term value should be also. To this end, something easily repairable - regular j-bend spokes, and durable widely available rims - is best. Excel Sports used to build an Ultegra or a Dura Ace wheelset for under 500 that also came in under 1500 grams (sans skewers / tires). Outside of that, a timed event / competition prioritized aerodynamics and/or weight, in which case a set of carbon hoops (+ special brake pads) is the only feasible option. Used, the latter can be had as low as $500 occasionally.

[FL_MarkD]

Love my Archtypes Ultegra 6800 32/32 'work horses' for my Lynskey. It isn't a race bike, mostly due to the engine. :)

They aren't light, but they look great and ride nice. Oldpotatoe did a great job on the build for me.

Mark

[oldpotatoe]

Hopefully they will continue to offer hubs. Record and Ultegra are workhorses; IMO top choices for an all-around set if color and drillings work with the scheme. DA is my favorite Ti freehub when the dial turns towards performance more than durability.

Shimano keeps on improving their road hubs and trickling features down to Ultegra (e.g. Digital preset is wonderfull and makes spanner adjustment a thing of the past). I cant say the same for the Shimano touring hubs when an old time favorite, the XT, took a turn southward with smaller bearings forced by aluminum axles.
I cant say the same either for the Mavic rims, at least from my experiences with some hits and misses.

I agree, shimano hubs are awesome. I even like 5800(2 'colors'!) but I wish their hubs had a little intercompatibility. Designed in triangles..5800 guys don't talk to 6800 guys who don't talk to 9000 guys. I like the ti FH body too but I really don't understand why 9000 hubs got so expensive. I don't remember 7700 hubs being so much more than 6500 hubs.

Mavic rims-no thanks. I've been 'vexed' by their noisy eyelet/wedge OpenPro for so long it's easier to just not build with them. Too many nice rims out there to even consider mavic.