Plastic bikes?

[oldpotatoe]

Seems right around the corner..sort of.

With thanks to Cycligtips and the 'Angry Asian".

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/12/crash-resistant-carbon-fiber-why-your-next-frame-might-just-be-made-of-hybrid-composites-and-thermoplastics

[redir]

That's awesome!!! Because the metal VS carbon argumentative wars are over. We need new material (pun intended).

[nooneline]

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/403744/plastics.png

[notsew]

Pretty interesting stuff.

Dyneema and Innegra has been used in boat rigging for quite a while. The strength/weight/suppleness/abrasion resistance combo is impressive. I'm always amazed by the listed breaking strength of a wee bit of dyneema cord. I get its just which way you aim the fibers and how you goo them up to make em stiff.

[MattTuck]

Another problem that I didn't know I had.... oh right, I ride steel.

[Elefantino]

http://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/403744/plastics.png
Brilliant!

[Bob Ross]

I may have mentioned this here before:

My Dad worked in the plastics industry (specifically, Arco Chemical's polystyrenics division) for ~20 years while I was growing up. I distinctly remember him bringing me a copy of one of his trade magazines that showed a prototype all-plastic road bike frame with what -- at the time -- seemed like an astonishingly low weight, 2 or 3lbs iirc.

This would have been around 1973.

I always knew plastic bikes were on the way, I just didn't think I'd have to wait 43 years for them!

[icepick_trotsky]

Another problem that I didn't know I had.... oh right, I ride steel.

Also referenced in the article, a steel and carbon hybrid composite material.

https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/REIN4CED-fork-2.jpg

[MattTuck]

Also referenced in the article, a steel and carbon hybrid composite material.


Yeah, the technology is cool, no doubt. My response, obviously tongue in cheek, was more focused on whether this is actually solving a problem that consumers need solved.

If bike companies succeeded in making an indestructible frame, they'd have nothing left to sell you. Except for the aero version, then the light weight version, and then they'd work to convince you that the frame only lasts for 2-3 years due to the advanced polymers breaking down over time, so you'd better get a new one soon!

[Mike Lopez]

Mixing composite materials is virtually as old as the composites industry itself. Sometimes the result is the worst of both materials as opposed to the best. ;)

The use of the PE based fibers as a containment barrier does work well. Back when the America's cup was in San Diego I built lots of battens for the A3 boat. The load bearing structures were carbon fiber but the parts were wrapped in Spectra so that in the event of a failure they didn't poke a hole thru the sail. And parts did break. They didn't have to but their philosophy was if it doesn't break it's too heavy. Interesting project...It was all about dialing in the lay-up to achieve specific flex patterns in different wind conditions.

Another project we worked on way back when was the use of Spectra fiber in ballistic armor applications. Spectra is an older, more advanced, and more expensive version of the Innegra fiber mentioned in James article. While at Cycitech I had a nice conversation with the applications engr representing the fiber and that's how she explained it... At any rate, below is a photo of a test panel of Spectra in Kapton with a ceramic fragmentation plate bonded to it. The Spectra is 7/16" thick and the ceramic 1/4" thick . It stops a 50 cal machine gun round. The ceramic frags the incoming round and the Spectra acts as a catchers mitt for the fragments and dissipates the energy over a wider area. The application was belly panels for transport planes etc.

The ballistic work was fascinating and my takeaway was that you don't want to get shot period but especially by a rifle. Handgun rounds were easy enough to stop but high velocity rifle rounds are much tougher. That whole MV^2 thing... Even if you stop the round you still absorb a massive amount of energy. May not blow a hole thru you but it's like getting hit by a truck.

And being in the war monger biz at that time we also made things to defeat the armor. Your tax dollars at work. Isn't that special?

[mike mcdermid]

Seems right around the corner..sort of.

With thanks to Cycligtips and the 'Angry Asian".

https://cyclingtips.com/2016/12/crash-resistant-carbon-fiber-why-your-next-frame-might-just-be-made-of-hybrid-composites-and-thermoplastics

it was round the corner 20 years ago if not more....even in bicycles

My most recent work has been all to do with thermoplastics and carbon and fancy (well depends on your viewpoint) addition fibres but there's a bigger of how many and how quickly something needs to be made when you are talking thermoplastics , for example carbon cars like the BMW "i" and aircraft like the Boeing Dreamliner both have thermoplastic parts in the most surprising places but traditional processing would kill the idea completely ,
Processing speed for automotive needs to be in the Minutes region, before i left Boeings AMRC microwave curing parts was the next step in our search for low process times

The other major hurdle is its a bit of a step change technology and processing wise , a lot of the parts require a different joining method , which at the moment the bike industry isn't ready for , thermoplastics stick together differently having low surface energies so gluing bits together, means you are going back to the early days of high failure rates, they really dont like to be glued together , though we did used to mold entire frames in one hit using this method, now realistically theres so much thats been untouched technology wise in the traditional field it seems like a move to the next big thing

one addage that rings true everytime , marketing hype sells but you still have to put the right material in the right place bad application is bad application, but as its a forum again it depends on what you view as a bad application.