Landis realistic about his chances

[fiamme red]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/austin_murphy/07/27/landis.react/?cnn=yes

Landis told me he "can't be hopeful" that the B sample will be any different than the A. "I'm a realist," he said.

[coylifut]

wow, no body has ever lost a case because of a elevated testosterone level? that's what Landis said in the si article. it must be a hard case to win

[SoCalSteve]

Qouted from the SI article:

Landis says that an elevated level of testosterone is different from a positive test. He says this is a fairly common problem among pro cyclists. He's retaining the services of a Spanish doctor named Luis Hernandez, who has helped other riders shown by tests to have elevated levels of testosterone. "In hundreds of cases," Landis told me, "no one's ever lost one."

It's too early to tell if he's going to be on solid footing or if he's clutching at straws. The next step, he says, is to submit to an endocrine test that may help him prove that he just happens to be a guy walking around with an inordinate amount of testosterone in his blood.

It ain't over til the fat lady sings, IMHO...

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . and of course I want with all my heart to believe that he is indeed innocent.

But I, too, have to be a realist . . . there is such an atmosphere of cynicism, skepticism, and quick condemnation connected with cycling and doping right now that no matter what the outcome, in the eyes of many fans--and even more non-fans--his victory will be tarnished forever.

How sad . . .

BBD

[Archibald]

. . . and of course I want with all my heart to believe that he is indeed innocent.

But I, too, have to be a realist . . . there is such an atmosphere of cynicism, skepticism, and quick condemnation connected with cycling and doping right now that no matter what the outcome, in the eyes of many fans--and even more non-fans--his victory will be tarnished forever.

How sad . . .

BBD
Dave, I hope so too and I appreciate your sentiment.

Instead of being called naive, I think I would rather be called a romanticist. I believe Landis is a man of character and while he may renounce his parent's faith, that does not mean he has renounced their integrity or principles. Cynicism, skepticism, and condemnation are all within our personal control. In my eyes, his victory can only be tarnished if I choose for it to be. It was a beautiful win, an inspired win, and I hope it remains that way for all. It will for me.

[e-RICHIE]

Dave, I hope so too and I appreciate your sentiment.

Instead of being called naive, I think I would rather be called a romanticist. I believe Landis is a man of character and while he may renounce his parent's faith, that does not mean he has renounced their integrity or principles. Cynicism, skepticism, and condemnation are all within our personal control. In my eyes, his victory can only be tarnished if I choose for it to be. It was a beautiful win, an inspired win, and I hope it remains that way for all. It will for me.
hey arch-issimo, i fully agree with you.
it's part of loving the sport while not
putting too much cred on its heroes.

[Louis]

Questions that would be interesting to see answered:

1) What have the results of this test been for Landis in the past?

2) If there are "normal" fluctuations for the ratio in question, what is the typical range of those changes for clean endurance atheletes during high level competition?

3) What ratios and what range of fluctuations would one expect for someone who is actively using PEDs?

We'll probably never get these answers, but it would be nice to have the data.

Louis

[J.Greene]

it's part of loving the sport while not
putting too much cred on its heroes.

good advice here atmo.

JG

[gone]

"The purge that marked the start of this race -- 13 riders were ejected after being implicated in a Spanish doping investigation called Operación Puerto -- confirmed cycling's status as one of the dirtiest sports in the world"

So either this guy is so naive he's part owner of a bridge in Brooklyn or knows so little about professional sports that you have to wonder what he's doing writing for SI.

I wonder how well MLB, soccer or the NFL would fare if they had a testing program anywhere near that of cycling? I'm surely not saying cycling is clean but to label it one of the dirtiest sports in the world is, at best, inaccurate.

Disclaimer: I don't read SI and don't know the author of the article at all. Only going by what he's written in the article quoted.

[stevep]

"The purge that marked the start of this race -- 13 riders were ejected after being implicated in a Spanish doping investigation called Operación Puerto -- confirmed cycling's status as one of the dirtiest sports in the world"

So either this guy is so naive he's part owner of a bridge in Brooklyn or knows so little about professional sports that you have to wonder what he's doing writing for SI.

I wonder how well MLB, soccer or the NFL would fare if they had a testing program anywhere near that of cycling? I'm surely not saying cycling is clean but to label it one of the dirtiest sports in the world is, at best, inaccurate.

Disclaimer: I don't read SI and don't know the author of the article at all. Only going by what he's written in the article quoted.

at least in track and field everyone is clean. thank you very much.

all in all... it has dramatically altered my personal interest in the whole big time race thing... yeah, i like to ride the courses, etc.
dont care all that much about the big races..ill take the local stuff anyday. these guys race to win but are able to live with losing and go to work the next day.

[spiderlake]

Nicely said.

Dave, I hope so too and I appreciate your sentiment.

Instead of being called naive, I think I would rather be called a romanticist. I believe Landis is a man of character and while he may renounce his parent's faith, that does not mean he has renounced their integrity or principles. Cynicism, skepticism, and condemnation are all within our personal control. In my eyes, his victory can only be tarnished if I choose for it to be. It was a beautiful win, an inspired win, and I hope it remains that way for all. It will for me.

[rspecker]

I don't get how these tests work.

Wouldn't they already have a baseline for Floyd from prior tests?

If so, then isn't what they now call "elevated" off that baseline.

If so, then it shouldn't matter if Floyd has a "naturally high" level because the new test would just be measuring above the baseline.

Does anyone know how the tests actually work?

I'd really like to believe Floyd; the win was nothing short of inspiring. But this doesn't look good. It seems likely that nearly the whole peloton are juicers, and the ones who get caught are simply the riders that push the limit of what the tests can detect.

History will probably erase this entire TdF from the records books.

[Fixed]

bro how about most musicians ?..drug users or drunks ? you still buy their records . did they cheat by opening up their minds to new creations ?
jazz blues, rock. would be a lot different without some outside help. imho
cheers

floyd's mom rocks too

[kestrel]

I just did a bit of reading about Testosterone levels:

When a man feels aroused or successful, the cerebral cortex, the most sophisticated area of the brain, sends a signal to another part of the brain called the hypothalamus to stimulate the production of testosterone...........

....... Mild to moderately intense physical stress, as in sports and sexual intercourse, may actually boost testosterone production. .......................

As we all know, the testes are very heat sensitive so switching from jockey shorts and tight jeans to boxers and loose pants may raise the testosterone level. or even something as simple as pouring water over one's head or crotch area.

[GoJavs]

That all that water that Floyd poured on his head aroused him. Interesting.

[fiamme red]

That all that water that Floyd poured on his head aroused him. Interesting.Sure. Isn't that what a cold shower does? :D

[Elefantino]

hey arch-issimo, i fully agree with you.
it's part of loving the sport while not
putting too much cred on its heroes.

Yep.

Sports heroes are the most fragile kind. What they do on the field of play is beautiful. Unfortunately, it's not that simple anymore.

[Louis]

Background info bits from this (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/28/sports/othersports/28landis.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5094&en=d49fb2ab273a06e1&hp&ex=1154059200&partner=homepage) NYT article on Landis

Speaking by telephone from Europe yesterday, Landis said a “disastrous feeling” swept over him when he heard the news of his positive test. He said he had never used performance-enhancing drugs and was mystified by the abnormality of his testosterone level.

He said he and his personal doctor, Dr. Brent Kay, were looking for possible explanations. Among them, they speculated, were Landis’s use of thyroid medicine for previously diagnosed hypothyroidism and his consumption of alcohol the night before Stage 17. Dr. Kay said that in his initial research, he learned that the test for testosterone levels has a “long history of inaccuracy.”

After each stage of the Tour, several riders give urine samples for subsequent drug screenings — the overall leader, the stage winner and two random competitors. The tests from the Tour are conducted at a French laboratory at Chatenay-Malabry.

Landis was the overall leader five times and the stage winner once, meaning that he was tested at least six times during the race.

Dr. Shalender Bhasin, a leading testosterone researcher at Boston University Medical Center, said that one way to know if the ratio found in the test was normal was to continue testing the athlete. If the ratio is normal for that man, it will not change.

This time, the drug at the center of the scandal is testosterone, an anabolic steroid used for strength and endurance and also for quicker recovery, said Donald Catlin, who runs the Olympic drug testing laboratory at U.C.L.A. Its use raises the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone.

The World Anti-Doping Agency recently lowered the threshold for a positive test from to four to one, from six to one. A person’s normal ratio is one to one or two to one.

Catlin said that the test to discover high levels of testosterone is two-pronged and labor-intensive. The first part, to see if there is a high T/E ratio, can take anywhere from 8 to 12 hours, he said. The second part, to see whether that high ratio comes naturally or from an external source, is also lengthy.

He added, however, that it is rare for B samples to fail to confirm the initial result. “This is not a slam-dunk case,” he said of Landis’s case. “There is work to do, and if there’s ever a test that won’t repeat a positive, it will be a really complex analysis, and this is one of them.”

Catlin also said that if Landis had a naturally high level of testosterone, someone would already know it or someone would be retrieving the past results and plotting them on graph paper to prove his innocence.
“These data are saved and someone can look them up,” he said.

Though Landis was granted a waiver by the U.C.I. to receive cortisone shots before the Tour began, cortisone use would not result in a higher T/E level, Catlin said. (Cortisone is otherwise banned.)

[Samster]

bro how about most musicians ?..drug users or drunks ? you still buy their records . did they cheat by opening up their minds to new creations ?
jazz blues, rock. would be a lot different without some outside help. imho
cheers

floyd's mom rocks too
i ordered that dvd from worldcycling just after i heard the news. like i said, i think it was a great race.

[slowgoing]

I don't think you could have a wife like his without having high testostrone levels.

[toaster]

The whole affair raises more questions than answers.

Landis was tested more than once during the tour, why the positive test after the most dramatic stage where he regained the yellow jersey?

If the offense is a T/E ratio and the charge is the use of testosterone or anabolic steroids to enhance performance then is the effect immediate after an injection or introduction to the body or does it take days or weeks for the body to respond?

It's very interesting to consider these two selected quotes:

"Also, we know that the French laboratory [where the testing was done] has a close connection with [French sports daily] L'Équipe, and we did not want this news to come through the press, because we are sure they would have leaked it."
Pat McQuaid

And..

"I believe Floyd is innocent. The majority of T/E tests are over-turned at the CAS level. The guy will probably be proven innocent in eight months time, but in the short-term, the media is killing him. Floyd is basically paying for the sins of all the morons who came before him, who have denied, denied, denied. He's going to take the fall for everyone who has cried wolf before him. He's going to be the guy who gets his head cut off and that's a real tragedy."
Jonathan Vaughters