Cracked Honjo fender: any solutions?

[fiamme red]

As I was returning from a ride over some very rough roads (lots of frost heaves), I heard some rattling from the back of my bike. It was the 35mm hammered Honjo fender, which had started to crack under the rear brake. By the time I got home, the rattling was very noisy, and the crack extended 2/5 of the way across the fender, from the right edge.

I'd like to keep the fender, if possible. Is there anything I can do to keep the fender from rattling, and the crack from growing? I'm thinking of epoxy or 3M™ Aluminum Foil Tape.

[cnighbor1]

On my plastic fenders I overlapped the two parts with it cracked across the width and bolted together
I was lucky that it occurred at support area near fender stays
so I drilled out rivets overlapped sections and bolted it all together

[PJN]

This will happen to all aluminum fenders if the bikes actually get ridden.

Buy a new set and plan on it happening again.

[Peter P.]

This will happen to all aluminum fenders if the bikes actually get ridden.

Buy a new set and plan on it happening again.

Exactly. Aluminum hates ANY flexing and those bumps and road causing vibrations cause flex.

If you overlap sections, it may damp vibration enough or change the resonant frequency (I know-we're getting WAY too technical for fenders!) so it doesn't crack again.

Plastic fenders are unfortunately a better solution.

[R3awak3n]

buy a new set. If you want to spend a little less, get some berthoud fenders. Not as nice but still very nice and half as much money.

[ColonelJLloyd]

How is the fender mounted at the brake ridge? Sidepull caliper?

[11.4]

It's work hardening of the metal around the mounting hole(s), and alloy fenders are highly prone to it. The metal is already work hardened so there's nothing you can do to reverse it on the set you have.

If you want to do it again, here are a few tricks:

1. Drill the mounting holes slightly oversized under the fork crown and at the brake and chain stay bridges on the rear and install a neoprene grommet through the hole. Then run the bolt through the grommet. This reduces the amount of vibration that reaches the metal.

2. It also helps to have a leather or rubber washer between the fender and the actual mount on the bike.

3. Still further, find some good nylon bolts and use them instead of stainless ones. Always carry an extra one in your tire bag because they can occasionally pop, but they won't carry vibration from the frame anywhere near as much as a stainless bolt does.

4. When you design your build, limit any opportunity for the fender to vibrate. The worst source of vibration is a big wind catcher of a mudflap. Get a pair of Buddyflaps. I've never found another decent mudflap that works better than Buddyflaps, especially on alloy fenders. You can get the extra long ones if you need, but still they don't induce vibration like a cut-up water bottle or a piece of plastic tread material does. Also be sure your mounting at the aft end of the fender is very solid. I much prefer the center stainless bolt that attaches the U-shaped stay on top of the fender. If your fender is vibrating in the wind at the very back end of the fender, that vibration is going to run into a block right where they break, and it's the vibration at the mudflap that causes it to crack at the mounting bolt half way around the fender.

5. In the same vein, to reduce vibration in the fender, it helps to add a little flexible mass to the fender. I tried putting a 3/4" strip of leather down the centerline of the fender, and it made a huge difference. So does a strip of flexible plastic moulding in the same place. If you find something and make it look like an art project, it can be pretty cool. You can also get some fiberglass (or even carbon) fabric and bond it to the fender (carbon cloth on top because of looks; fiberglass underneath because it looks like crap).

6. In the end, as someone said above, a pair of SKS fenders simply works better. Having gone through a lot of Honjos, Berthouds, Portland Design Works, and on and on, the SKS fenders on a couple bikes just kept ticking. I found some very cool tape in an Escher-like mirrored transforming design and put it on some SKSs. It looked very cool.

[fiamme red]

buy a new set. If you want to spend a little less, get some berthoud fenders. Not as nice but still very nice and half as much money.I have Berthoud 40mm stainless steel fenders on another bike, and they're much less fragile than Honjos.

This is not the first time I've had a problem with Honjo fenders. I once was on a tour riding a bike with Honjo hammered fenders, and the rear fender cracked under the brake bridge and split in two. I had to throw the whole fender away.

[R3awak3n]

I have Berthoud 40mm stainless steel fenders on another bike, and they're much less fragile than Honjos.

This is not the first time I've had a problem with Honjo fenders. I once was on a tour riding a bike with Honjo hammered fenders, and the rear fender cracked under the brake bridge and split in two. I had to throw the whole fender away.

the honjos are aluminum instead of SS right? Much lighter right?

[11.4]

I have Berthoud 40mm stainless steel fenders on another bike, and they're much less fragile than Honjos.

This is not the first time I've had a problem with Honjo fenders. I once was on a tour riding a bike with Honjo hammered fenders, and the rear fender cracked under the brake bridge and split in two. I had to throw the whole fender away.

That's where they usually break, because that's where any vibration from either the frame or from the tail end of the fender runs into a mounting bolt. I stopped using them when I was going through a fender a month. Pretty, but not the right material. Stainless from Berthoud are much more durable, though not as pretty and heavier. Carbon fiber fenders are pretty cool and several people make them -- I think Parlee had some gorgeous ones -- but in the end, it's old SKS full fenders that keep you riding every day.

[fiamme red]

It's work hardening of the metal around the mounting hole(s), and alloy fenders are highly prone to it. The metal is already work hardened so there's nothing you can do to reverse it on the set you have.

If you want to do it again, here are a few tricks:

1. Drill the mounting holes slightly oversized under the fork crown and at the brake and chain stay bridges on the rear and install a neoprene grommet through the hole. Then run the bolt through the grommet. This reduces the amount of vibration that reaches the metal.

2. It also helps to have a leather or rubber washer between the fender and the actual mount on the bike.

3. Still further, find some good nylon bolts and use them instead of stainless ones. Always carry an extra one in your tire bag because they can occasionally pop, but they won't carry vibration from the frame anywhere near as much as a stainless bolt does.

4. When you design your build, limit any opportunity for the fender to vibrate. The worst source of vibration is a big wind catcher of a mudflap. Get a pair of Buddyflaps. I've never found another decent mudflap that works better than Buddyflaps, especially on alloy fenders. You can get the extra long ones if you need, but still they don't induce vibration like a cut-up water bottle or a piece of plastic tread material does. Also be sure your mounting at the aft end of the fender is very solid. I much prefer the center stainless bolt that attaches the U-shaped stay on top of the fender. If your fender is vibrating in the wind at the very back end of the fender, that vibration is going to run into a block right where they break, and it's the vibration at the mudflap that causes it to crack at the mounting bolt half way around the fender.

5. In the same vein, to reduce vibration in the fender, it helps to add a little flexible mass to the fender. I tried putting a 3/4" strip of leather down the centerline of the fender, and it made a huge difference. So does a strip of flexible plastic moulding in the same place. If you find something and make it look like an art project, it can be pretty cool. You can also get some fiberglass (or even carbon) fabric and bond it to the fender (carbon cloth on top because of looks; fiberglass underneath because it looks like crap).

6. In the end, as someone said above, a pair of SKS fenders simply works better. Having gone through a lot of Honjos, Berthouds, Portland Design Works, and on and on, the SKS fenders on a couple bikes just kept ticking. I found some very cool tape in an Escher-like mirrored transforming design and put it on some SKSs. It looked very cool.Thanks, some valuable tips here.

I have SKS Longboards on my commuter bike and love them. But my Mercian deserves something more visually elegant, hence the choice is between Honjos and Berthouds.

[fiamme red]

the honjos are aluminum instead of SS right? Much lighter right?Yes, Honjos are aluminum. Jan Heine gives the weights as follows (https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rbw-owners-bunch/sRBh_M4HxN8/UmPr1l91cJ8J):

When we tested fenders for Bicycle Quarterly (Vol. 2, No. 1), we found for complete sets with stays and hardware:

- Honjo aluminum H40, 444 g.
- Berthoud stainless 700C: 598 g
- SKS narrow: 510 g
- Berthoud carbon: 248 g
- Salmon aluminum: 686 g

[mvrider]

Aha! So there is a market for these:

http://www.sim.works/collections/fenders-simworks-by-honjo/products/smooth-35-titanium

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1154/0334/products/honjo_h35_ti_900.jpg?v=1476873996

[EricEstlund]

As noted above, the Berthoud are not that much heavier. I use them as my standard- the extra durability is worth about 40g per fender.

[coelacant]

You could patch it with a piece of aluminum cut from a thrashed fender.
cut into a trapezoid shape and crazy glue over the crack. drill new hole....
I might have a pic or two of mine for you to check out. Not as top 'constructeur' a job as Peter Weigle's but it does the job.

[marciero]

If I am understanding, the cracking is occuring at the brake bridge. If your bike does not have radially oriented mounting holes on the rear bridges and you are using that ugly U-shaped mounting bracket that crimps around the fender, the first thing is to get rid of that and replace with an L-shaped bracket that bolts to the fender and attaches to the bridge with a Sheldon bolt, which also replaces the brake bolt. If you have the clearances, you can use leather or nylon washer/spacers between fender and bracket. Also, large washer on inside of the fender. The ones I use are about one inch outer diameter and I bend them so that they conform to the curve on the underside of the fender. Plastic washer could work also. If you want more reinforcement, install those diamond shaped things you see on Peter Weigle bikes, which can be gotten from different vendors. I dont think that is at all necessary though, as the large washer and L-bracket do the same thing.

All fenders will eventually crack, yes, but i am getting tens of thousands of miles, including lots of gravel, underbiking in boulder fields, etc, from aluminum fenders. I think proper mounting is key. On bikes with radially oriented mounting holes on the rear bridges, similar to what 11.4 suggests, I use cylindrical nylon spacers with about 1/2 inch outer diameter between fender and frame, as well as the curved large washer on the inside of the fender.

Regarding the SKS fenders, I have not had them crack either but they seem to be much flexier. More importantly they dont keep me as dry. Jan Heine has described the problem of water on the inside of the fender being diverted by the bracket that attaches to the stay and then running down the stay, only to drip off onto your feet. I have watched this happen while riding. I have tried to mitigate by using electrical tape over the bracket on the inside of the fender, thereby creating a gradual contour. This seems to work a little. Aside from not having the stay bracket creating a dam inside the fender and direct path for water to travel onto the stay, the Honjo/VO/Berthoud have the stay located much lower.

[Peter P.]

Thanks, some valuable tips here.

I have SKS Longboards on my commuter bike and love them. But my Mercian deserves something more visually elegant, hence the choice is between Honjos and Berthouds.

You want "visually elegant"? Buy some SKS's and spray paint them to complement your Mercian. Longevity AND prettiness, all in one package.

[EricEstlund]

Another big contributor to cracking is stressed fenders. During set up be sure to massage the fender into the final fixed shape without being pulled or under tension by the fasteners/ struts. Make sure all the fasteners hold securely without rattle.

On a cracked fender there are some patches to buy you some time, but since that is the main attachment point you may want to call it and replace sooner than later.

[chiasticon]

you guys are freaking me out. I just picked up some Velo Orange fenders and haven't installed them yet. now I'm stressed that they'll die quickly and am considering returning for SKS :(

I've had good luck with both Planet Bike Cascadia road fenders and the Portland Design Full Metal Fenders. couple years on each with no major issues. I think the rear brake bracket broke on the Cascadias and I had to replace it with one of the clip on versions from SKS. but that's it.

I just wanted something nicer looking for this bike and the VO "hammered" (stamped) ones seemed to fit the bill, while not being quite as heavy, expensive, or difficult to set up as Honjo and Berthoud.

[ColonelJLloyd]

you guys are freaking me out. I just picked up some Velo Orange fenders and haven't installed them yet. now I'm stressed that they'll die quickly and am considering returning for SKS :(

Take your time and install them correctly and all will be well with the world. The only failures I've seen have been from crashes, snagging the fender on a foreign object or non-optimal installation. Metal fenders are like buying the right beans, grinding them, getting the water the right temp and carefully brewing. It takes a little more time and care than a K-cup. Some people couldn't care less. To others the difference is real.

[EricEstlund]

To echo the above post, with proper installation they are all pretty fantastic. Even plastic (or plastic coated metal cored) fenders will eventually crack, but you should get years of good service out of all of them with proper mounting.

[Davist]

Has anyone used the Handsome Cycles fenders? I was inspired to look at fenders by this thread, and these came up, certainly very pretty copper "powder coated" aluminum, whatever that means:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41e5hU-8NyL._SY355_.jpg

[ColonelJLloyd]

I would be surprised if they didn't come from the same factory as the Velo Orange fenders before getting the PC treatment. In my limited experience with copper powder coating (three stage), it doesn't hold up as well as a traditional solid color.

[adamhell]

+1 for berthoud. relatively easy to install, look great, & haven't had an issue yet.

[11.4]

I'd second the wet-painted SKS fenders, in colors to match your bike. It looks gorgeous and is durable. The only problem is that the sprayer makes the fenders flip all over the place during the painting process and some painters hate them. I painted a set myself and experienced this, then made a jig to hold everything in place and it worked fine and avoided drips. I took some SKS's and drilled out the existing brackets and struts and used Honjo stainless fittings instead. It looks very slick with the fenders painted to match the bike. You can even just do the fenders in black if you're using black tires with black sidewalls and it looks very cool -- add black saddle and black bar tape and some gloss black rattle can is all you need to do.

[palincss]

This will happen to all aluminum fenders if the bikes actually get ridden.

Buy a new set and plan on it happening again.

Not if they're correctly installed, it won't.

[Jan Heine]

In my experience, aluminum fenders actually last longer than any others. I know many 1950s René Herse bikes with original fenders and huge miles. On my own bikes, I have ridden 30,000+ miles with the same Honjo fenders without any issues.

Broken fenders are almost always an installation issue. Unfortunately, many bikes make it hard to install fenders correctly, because the bridges aren't spaced correctly. Here is what you need to watch for:

• no inbuilt stresses. You need to shape the fender so that it follows the curve of the wheel on its own. The stays just stabilize the fender - don't use them to pull the fender into shape.
• 2 eyebolts to attach the stays to the fender, not one. With one bolt, you get flex, and the fender will crack.
• 3 attachment points for each fender. On the rear, that means the chainstay and seatstay bridges, plus the fender stays. On the front, it's the fork crown and fender stays, but you need a third attachment in front of the fork crown (either a rack or a second set of stays).

Compass includes a copy of Peter Weigle's Bicycle Quarterly article on fender installation with each set of Honjo fenders. That way, you have complete, illustrated instructions. We also sell fender stays separately for bikes without front racks.

Plastic fenders usually have to be pulled into shape (unless you are creative with a heat gun), and that is why they usually fail, too. I never got more than 15,000 miles out of plastic fenders before I switched to Honjos. Stainless steel fenders are tough, but brittle, and I've seen many of them crack relatively quickly. I have no experience with titanium fenders, since I see no need for fenders that are heavier and more expensive than aluminum ones.

As to fixing your cracked fender, I'd just splice it like a Rinko fender. That probably will last you a long time. You could even use an piece of an old plastic fender. (We made an extending fender that way once for wind tunnel testing of fender shapes.)

Jan Heine
Compass Cycles
www.compasscycle.com (https://www.compasscycle.com)

[palincss]

In installed my first Hono fenders on my Kogswell P/R around 10 years and over 17,000 miles ago; the Honos on my Johnny Coast-built VO Randonneur went on 8 years and over 25,000 miles ago. Over 17,000 miles on the MAP, too, although it's only been 5 years. You'd think if cracking was as inevitable and as quick to happen as some folks claim, it would have happened to those bikes by now.

God knows I'm neither an expert nor any kind of skilled craftsman, so I had to rely on articles for my information. One thing I learned, that I think made a lot of difference, is that the technique you use on plastic fenders to achieve a correct fender line, that works perfectly with those fenders -- pulling them into line and holding them in place with tension on the stays -- absolutely does not work with aluminum and is entirely the wrong thing to do.

This is hardly the only instance where a technique that is right for one circumstance is exactly the wrong thing in another, due to differences in the properties of the materials involved, and it's hardly the fault of the materials.

Another thing I learned is that mounting undrilled aluminum fenders simply cannot be rushed. It takes time, a lot of time. You have to mount, mark, remove, drill, reinstall, etc. more than once: because mounting distorts the material, you can't mark and drill all the holes at once. It's a kind of Zen experience: relax, go with the flow and let it take the time it needs to take and it will go a lot better than trying to force the pace.

[coelacant]

Some pics of the quick and dirty job.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5472/31208484671_505ceac043_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/PxMDcV)20161129_125919 (https://flic.kr/p/PxMDcV) by Tolev2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/54057857@N07/), on Flickrhttps://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5463/30501319954_dbc97a6b1e_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/NtieLN)20161129_130011 (https://flic.kr/p/NtieLN) by Tolev2 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/54057857@N07/), on Flickr

[chiasticon]

To echo the above post, with proper installation they are all pretty fantastic. Even plastic (or plastic coated metal cored) fenders will eventually crack, but you should get years of good service out of all of them with proper mounting.thanks for the encouragement that I didn't make a mistake with ordering them. funny enough, they arrived today but I can't install anyway because a stay is missing. the box is giant too, like it would cost me $40 to ship giant. sometimes I don't get how Amazon Prime makes money, as they'll foot the bill now for returning and getting me a new set. :eek:

also, my Sheldon Nuts aren't here yet. and there's no way I'm installing without those.

Davist: I contemplated the Handsome Mud Butlers versus the Velo Orange and went with the VO since they're longer. the Handsomes are too short in the back, in my opinion. here's a pic of them from the Radavis:

http://theradavist.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/My-Geekhouse-Woodville-Touring-Bike-with-Fenders-40-1335x890.jpg

versus the Velo Orange:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yGlRNlTZW3Q/U_v_SkecxaI/AAAAAAAABms/0KSrZnknsYo/s1600/DSC03375.jpg